I don't want to put words in heywood1's mouth so I'll tell you what I object too in your quote regarding the demographics of typical Ody buyers:
We should be in here discussing the pros and cons of the new Ody. Period. When you begin to bring in stereotypes regarding the typical Ody (or non-Ody) buyer, you introduce a personal aspect to the discussion. Do we really need that in here? Isn't it possible to just discuss the VEHICLE, rather than the OWNERS?
The 8 passenger configuration has only 15 cupholders. So if each passenger has two drinks, someone has to hold one in his hand. I wonder if you can stick one of the drinks in the lazy susan?
Its not even my quote! My mistake though, I shouldn't have posted excerpts from first driving impression. Seems to hurt more than it does good! Oh well, I put an end to it here.
heywood1, Not every vehicle has to feel like a Lexus. A darker shade, as long as it matches some interior color works better for me than a lighter shade that matches something else. But then, function takes precedence over form for me.
I agree - let us just discuss the new ODY (what you like or don't)
The front looks like the civic - I like it though, the rear I liked it better than the old
Engine is great! Honda is always ahead of Toyota though in HP, but does not always translate in sales (Camry outsells the Accord and accord has more HP)
In the battle for top-selling mid-size sedan--Toyota includes all their fleet cars with their retail numbers to come up with the total sales. Honda doesn't have fleet cars; therefore, subtract the Camry fleet sales and Accord beats Camry.
yes those buttons have to do with the MID. It allows driver 1 and driver 2 to input their preferences for several different items; i.e. windows, lights, locks(yes, you can now program it to lock the doors after you shift from park or set the locks to lock after the vehicle begins moving.
Maybe Honda figured that the driver had to have one hand free to drive? Assuming, that is, that the driver is not holding a drink in one hand and using a cell phone in the other and using his one little pinky to steer.
The spin then is "Having only 15 cupholders for eight passengers is a safety feature, so one hand is free to drive!"
A dark dash is much less prone to reflecting on the inside of the windshield. A light dash can be very distracting and have substantial glare on the window. Of course if you wear polarized sunglasses it removes it almost completely and becomes a mute point.
Yes, the Sienna does have 3 equally sized narrow seats. Honda's thinking as explained at the ride and drive was make the two outside seats comfortable because that plus one will probably be a youth(or did I just imagine that is what I heard?)
Yes the Honda is probably more comfortable for two, but pity the child that has to sit in the middle. If we only had 2 kids the Ody would probably still be in the picture (I gues we could figure a way to get a DVD installed in an LX).
The funny thing is the middle row has much more hip and shoulder room than the rear row (on both vans), which has seated 3 all along. So the three seats in the Sienna can't be that small.
Our currenty Odyssey (Oasis) is much narrower than the new Odyssey, but 3 fit very comfortably in the middle row because the seat is more bench like.
And people thought I was nuts! :-) It is illegal for any one person to have more than one cup at the same time. And people thought my NAV was dangerous? 15 coffee cups inside one vehicle is extremely dangerous!
I know it's hard to tell from the photos (at least, the few I've seen), but I get the impression that when the +1 center seat is in place, and the inboard armrests are raised on the captains chairs, that the mid-row essentially becomes a 3-across bench with no gaps between the individual cushions. How well that works in practice, I'll try to withhold judgement until I (or one of my kids) can give it a test sit.
If it works alright, I think it's an ingenious approach. The one reason I struck the 8-seat Sienna version from my list was because the two outboard seats lacked armrests and didn't look nearly as comfy as the mid-row seats in the 7-seater version. Honda looks like they've found a way to offer an 8-seat version for OCCASIONAL times when 3 must fit in the 2nd row without compromising on the comfort when only two are back there.
Keep something in mind - kids usually sit on booster seats, at least until they're 80 lbs. Do you have 6 kids in the car, all of them heavier than 80 lbs? How often will that happen?
Put a booster in that middle seat and you're good to go.
The trouble with putting a child seat in the center is that it will most likely be wider than the "+1" seat is, overlapping to the two captains chairs. Now you're not able to fold down either side to get into the 3rd row.
Stickguy, Good point that high production volume of Odys & Siennas plus high sales volume of late 04’s at discount could dampen initial demand compared to 99 but there is one other factor which could work the other way
GAS prices!
In 99 gas was relatively cheap and SUVs were all the rage. But now, many SUV owners are rethinking driving a vehicle that cost so much at the pump every few days EPA 30 on the highway using regular gas will sound awfully good to people whose SUVs are ready for replacement.
Another factor pushing people to come back from an SUV to a van is the sudden presence of luxury features in a van. A few years ago you had to go SUV if you wanted the luxury amenities which you can now get on the Ody and the Sienna.
Does the 2nd row middle seat move forward like in the Sienna (and Expedition)?
That would leave more shoulder room.
fbear: funny timing, a friend of mine just called to say he replaced his Pathfinder with a Sienna. Fuel economy was one of his top reasons for the swap.
Yes, black is definitely a darker shade. The photos I've seen so far show b-l-a-c-k, black. And I believe this was even an interior shot of the 'Touring.' You're right that not every vehicle has to feel like a Lexus, but you'd think Honda would want to differentiate the interior of its highest-line Odyssey that will cost as much--or more--as some Lexus models.
Not sure if 25 or 28 MPG highway will be enough to get most people out of SUVs into a minivan, no matter how nice (the "soccer mom" stigma you know).
But, we shall soon see. My wife wants a new car before Christmas, but if demand is too strong (and the Ody is what she wants), it may be sometime in 2005.
one other concern is getting this wide beast into the garage. I guess 1" isn't too much of a difference, but it will be a tight fit.
ISell or any other salesguy: I assume the listed width is for the van only. Can you find out what the width is mirror tip to mirror tip, and if it is bigger/smaller than the current van?
I guarantee that if it won't fit in the garage, my wife won't consider it. And she sure won't get out to fold the mirror in by hand to fit through the door.
Power folders would be nice. At minimum, they better be spring loaded so they don't get ripped off if you catch the door frame.
I hope there is a demo van available (or someone we know buys one), before I have to decide if it will fit w/o trying it out.
After so many weeks of getting all excited about every tiny tidbit of info to come along this is absolute sensory overload! I am like a kid in a candy store.
The posts are coming so fast- I am going to re-post a couple of links first put up by player4 and someone else (can't remember who) that anyone just joining the board will not want to miss.
Link 1: Main page with links to details on interior, exterior, engine, you name it
If the plus one seat truely made for a flat bench that would be quite nice, but it looks to me like it definately is shorter vertically and horizontally. Probably so it can fit in the lazy suzan. If the Sienna seats were just a little flatter, and the outboard seats had armrests that would be ideal for me.
Yes the booster in the middle impedes the access to the rear (good thought otherwise), although we could shuffle things around if we needed when using the rear.
Well, since the "PlusOne Console" was listed as an accesory for the EX and EX-L (which already have the +1 seat), I figured this was the console which is standard in the Touring. I'd be willing to bet you could pick up a +1 seat on ebay within a few months. No guarantees about whether or not it would fit; the mounting points in the floor may be different on the Touring model.
Pictures aren't big enough? Have you had your eyes checked lately? Maybe that's why you've been so concerned over the size of the NAV screen.....8^)
Not sure about the wait time and buy price (MSRP or less) for 2005 Odyssey. A guy in Pilot board said he received a internet price quote of $800 over invoice for 2005 Pilot which will receive many updated features. I hope this is her biggest X'mas present she ever received.
I see what you mean about the +1 seat being shorter vertically (backrest height) and horizontally (lack of thigh support). Looks somewhat.....unsupportive. Probably best use would be as a place for a booster seat. I'll definitely have to check that out in person.
I think I found the 2 extra cupholders on the Touring. They appear to be located in the second row center table under a rectangular gray door which flips open. (pictures on page 5)
If you look a the pictures of the EX with the 8th seat, (page 13) there is one shot that shows the backrest folded down, creating a center table between the second row seats- but it does not appear to have any cup holders.
This is a minor nit, I know, but in my current ODY, small kids in the second row cannot reach any of the cupholders. Looks like that is definitely resolved in the Touring...not so sure for EX and below.
It's really hard to follow up this thread! Someone might have mentioned what I found last night. At B&N, I saw Consumerguide just released. There was an evaluation of 2005 ody with a nice photo. They were really enthuasistic about the new ody. The total score went up (perhaps from 67 to 70?), and they said that 2005 is much quieter, quicker and has better handling. I can't remember all those compliments! I know CG is favorable to ody, and sometimes I see really weird evaluations which seems never updated or corrected. But if you're interested in what they said, take a look at it.
Someone posted about Ody videos. I can't find them. I love to see an Ody in action on my screen, since I won't actually see one in a month. The touring is sooo beautiful, I wish I ordered one. I order the EX-L nav/res. It's almost the same. Again, it's hard to follow these posts, so much action. Does anybody know prices yet?
I think the interior is nothing special. I don't like the design, and IMO it can't come close to the Sienna XLE Limited, with the wood and, YES, COLOR-KEYED (plus wood) steering wheel! I even like the interior of the new Buick Terraza much better.
I understand it will have very good fit and finish and top quality materials, but the design is not good to my eyes! Looks to me like the stereo, climate controls, and NAV screen were designed in different worlds, and then put together, and force in an additional shifter... brrr... even not 500000 commands for the NAVI would make it nice... right, Andrew??? How do you compare the Ody interior to the Navigator...?
People are not complaining about colored steering wheel? well, if they love every other thing about the van, of course they wouldn't. Same as most Toyota customers doesn't complain about the power window controls is not lighted. But it sure nice to have it, especially on top of the line models which costs more than $35K! I give credit for Honda for providing illuminated controls! It's more important to me than HID headlamps!
Andrew, where did you see the cassette as an option? That would be great for me if I take one Ody!
And, to finish with a good thing: I love the new exterior design. That beats the Sienna IMO. I love traditional minivan styles. The new Ody is a mix of the Freestar, Sedona, and GM vans (??).
this is really good. I like the sienna, would prefer the ody. its about time the toyota boyz get some competition as i think we'll be seeing invoice + $ 500 very soon on sienna's. anyone have any idea what the loaded touring may list at????
Comments
We should be in here discussing the pros and cons of the new Ody. Period. When you begin to bring in stereotypes regarding the typical Ody (or non-Ody) buyer, you introduce a personal aspect to the discussion. Do we really need that in here? Isn't it possible to just discuss the VEHICLE, rather than the OWNERS?
heywood1,
Not every vehicle has to feel like a Lexus. A darker shade, as long as it matches some interior color works better for me than a lighter shade that matches something else. But then, function takes precedence over form for me.
The front looks like the civic - I like it though, the rear I liked it better than the old
Engine is great! Honda is always ahead of Toyota though in HP, but does not always translate in sales (Camry outsells the Accord and accord has more HP)
I love the torque of the engine!
Honda doesn't have fleet cars; therefore, subtract the Camry fleet sales and Accord beats Camry.
Maybe Honda figured that the driver had to have one hand free to drive? Assuming, that is, that the driver is not holding a drink in one hand and using a cell phone in the other and using his one little pinky to steer.
The spin then is "Having only 15 cupholders for eight passengers is a safety feature, so one hand is free to drive!"
The funny thing is the middle row has much more hip and shoulder room than the rear row (on both vans), which has seated 3 all along. So the three seats in the Sienna can't be that small.
Our currenty Odyssey (Oasis) is much narrower than the new Odyssey, but 3 fit very comfortably in the middle row because the seat is more bench like.
It is illegal for any one person to have more than one cup at the same time.
And people thought my NAV was dangerous?
15 coffee cups inside one vehicle is extremely dangerous!
If it works alright, I think it's an ingenious approach. The one reason I struck the 8-seat Sienna version from my list was because the two outboard seats lacked armrests and didn't look nearly as comfy as the mid-row seats in the 7-seater version. Honda looks like they've found a way to offer an 8-seat version for OCCASIONAL times when 3 must fit in the 2nd row without compromising on the comfort when only two are back there.
Exactly. Like they say, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
Since the 8th seat is listed as a dealer accessory, I hope I can get that on the Touring.
Seriously, Hope everything goes well. I'll be thinking of you and your family.
Put a booster in that middle seat and you're good to go.
-juice
????
I saw where a 2nd row console was available as an accesory for the LX and EX. Didn't see where the +1 seat was available as an accesory.
D'oh!
--> Andy
Good point that high production volume of Odys & Siennas plus high sales volume of late 04’s at discount could dampen initial demand compared to 99 but there is one other factor which could work the other way
GAS prices!
In 99 gas was relatively cheap and SUVs were all the rage. But now, many SUV owners are rethinking driving a vehicle that cost so much at the pump every few days EPA 30 on the highway using regular gas will sound awfully good to people whose SUVs are ready for replacement.
Another factor pushing people to come back from an SUV to a van is the sudden presence of luxury features in a van. A few years ago you had to go SUV if you wanted the luxury amenities which you can now get on the Ody and the Sienna.
That would leave more shoulder room.
fbear: funny timing, a friend of mine just called to say he replaced his Pathfinder with a Sienna. Fuel economy was one of his top reasons for the swap.
-juice
But, we shall soon see. My wife wants a new car before Christmas, but if demand is too strong (and the Ody is what she wants), it may be sometime in 2005.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
ISell or any other salesguy: I assume the listed width is for the van only. Can you find out what the width is mirror tip to mirror tip, and if it is bigger/smaller than the current van?
I guarantee that if it won't fit in the garage, my wife won't consider it. And she sure won't get out to fold the mirror in by hand to fit through the door.
Power folders would be nice. At minimum, they better be spring loaded so they don't get ripped off if you catch the door frame.
I hope there is a demo van available (or someone we know buys one), before I have to decide if it will fit w/o trying it out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The posts are coming so fast- I am going to re-post a couple of links first put up by player4 and someone else (can't remember who) that anyone just joining the board will not want to miss.
Link 1: Main page with links to details on interior, exterior, engine, you name it
http://autodeadline.com/Brand?source=honda&model=odyssey
Link 2: 146 pictures from Honda
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2059?view=p&page=1
These pics are really small. I wish each pic were a full 8" size to show more details.
Yes the booster in the middle impedes the access to the rear (good thought otherwise), although we could shuffle things around if we needed when using the rear.
Pictures aren't big enough? Have you had your eyes checked lately? Maybe that's why you've been so concerned over the size of the NAV screen.....8^)
Larger picture of the middle row. Look around on that site for a first drive all of the pictures are large.
In the over nine years I've sold Hondas, NOT ONCE have I had a customer complain about that.
Now, that's not to say they didn't feel that way but they didn't voice it to me.
People usually aren't shy either.
Go figure...
If you look a the pictures of the EX with the 8th seat, (page 13) there is one shot that shows the backrest folded down, creating a center table between the second row seats- but it does not appear to have any cup holders.
This is a minor nit, I know, but in my current ODY, small kids in the second row cannot reach any of the cupholders. Looks like that is definitely resolved in the Touring...not so sure for EX and below.
Someone might have mentioned what I found last night.
At B&N, I saw Consumerguide just released. There was an evaluation of 2005 ody with a nice photo. They were really enthuasistic about the new ody. The total score went up (perhaps from 67 to 70?), and they said that 2005 is much quieter, quicker and has better handling. I can't remember all those compliments! I know CG is favorable to ody, and sometimes I see really weird evaluations which seems never updated or corrected. But if you're interested in what they said, take a look at it.
I think the interior is nothing special. I don't like the design, and IMO it can't come close to the Sienna XLE Limited, with the wood and, YES, COLOR-KEYED (plus wood) steering wheel! I even like the interior of the new Buick Terraza much better.
I understand it will have very good fit and finish and top quality materials, but the design is not good to my eyes! Looks to me like the stereo, climate controls, and NAV screen were designed in different worlds, and then put together, and force in an additional shifter... brrr... even not 500000 commands for the NAVI would make it nice... right, Andrew??? How do you compare the Ody interior to the Navigator...?
People are not complaining about colored steering wheel? well, if they love every other thing about the van, of course they wouldn't. Same as most Toyota customers doesn't complain about the power window controls is not lighted. But it sure nice to have it, especially on top of the line models which costs more than $35K! I give credit for Honda for providing illuminated controls! It's more important to me than HID headlamps!
Andrew, where did you see the cassette as an option? That would be great for me if I take one Ody!
And, to finish with a good thing: I love the new exterior design. That beats the Sienna IMO. I love traditional minivan styles. The new Ody is a mix of the Freestar, Sedona, and GM vans (??).
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/honda/odyssey/100396379/previe- - w.html?tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.firstdrive.1g.*
this is really good. I like the sienna, would prefer the ody. its about time the toyota boyz get some competition as i think we'll be seeing invoice + $ 500 very soon on sienna's. anyone have any idea what the loaded touring may list at????
Aceman