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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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  • dwrestledwrestle Member Posts: 72
    I thought torque was acceleration, so why do they say the diesel engine will be slower than the 3.7 gas engine. Don't they have the same fuel injection, doesn't the diesel have good power throughout the entire rpm range, and awesome low end torque. So what the deal why is the diesel slower, in pickup trucks they are faster(especially when you hook those chips up to it), why not in a Jeep.

    By the way you guys in other countries who have the CRD in the Liberty have any kind of chip upgrades like Bully Dog or anything.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The engine on the CRD gives it's maximum torque (effort)around 2000 rpm, then proportionally less until you reach 3600 rpm. You can have the same feeling of acceleration when a human pushes a load on wheels (supermarket caddie, wheelchair).
    From standstill to the start of motion, the acceleration is strong (like a person can be).
    The modern gas engine responds in an inverse way as it increases it's torque when it increases it's RPM. For off-road driving, the diesel is more comfortable since you don't need to play with the clutch and you don't stall the engine so easely. On the road you easely reach your cuising speed but you always need to anticipate the eventual overtaking (like if a person was running).
    The chip upgrades I found on the european market will give longer injection timing in the first 1/3 of the rpm range, then about the same timing in the second 1/3, and finally more in the remaining 1/3. This helps the low end torque especially for the manual shifters, improves mileage in the city driving conditions, allows to burn out tires, does very little for the mileage over long trips, and finally helps overtaking at speeds above 75 MPH.
    Another option is the variable pitch of the turbo compressor. This sets the maximum air intake pressure faster (needed for low end power), but seems a bit more delicate according to what I hear.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Power (hp) = Torque (ft-lb) * RPM / 5252
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    To make a long story short, with the '2.8 Euro CDR' I get 100HP at 2000 rpm and 150HP at the end of the line. With a common gasser I would get ~80HP at 2000 rpm for the same 150HP at 3600 rpm. It's only ~25% more powerfull at 2000 rpm.
  • exploringexploring Member Posts: 1
    How can you compare the comfort levels of the Liberty and Cherokee? There is no comparison. These are vehicles that shouldn't be compared. When someone goes out to buy a Jeep product their choice of model is dependent on their needs. Wrangler (4 wheeling), Cherokee (some 4 wheeling, mostly comfortable in town SUV), Liberty (in towner, or want something a little more comfy than a Wrangler, but cannot afford the Cherokee). We purchased Liberty's as a part of our fleet because of the 4 wheel drive, ease for trail driving, diesel power and economy. They are not overly comfortable, but they fit a niche.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I was comparing the Liberty and Cherokee, not the GRAND Cherokee. Very different. I had an '01 Cherokee, the last year they were built and was comparing it to an '05 Liberty. The Cherokee and the Liberty are aimed at the same market. Liberty is still called Cherokee in other countries, FYI.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.jeep.co.uk/jeep/vehicle.aspx?ID=271,3
    Cherokee IS the Liberty in markets outside of North America. As Liberty is the replacement for the Cherokee it is a logical to compare the old version to the new. The old Cherokee has many fans.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/phelan-bar2e_20040902.htm

    Interesting comments about the engine noise.

    quote-The U.S.-spec Liberty also has considerably less engine noise and vibration than the European version. The big four-cylinder's sound is appreciably different from a gasoline engine, but without the unpleasant rattle and clattering common to big pickup diesels.-end
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    They probably went out of their way to make it quiet for this market. We have quite a different demand in vehicles than the europeans do. Cupholders, noise levels, and HP figures usually trump real performance, handling, etc.

    I noticed on the rental libery I drove, the power window switches were in the center console, which was another gripe 'o mine. I'm surprised that these were actually moved there from I assume the door. Cost savings I suppose.

    25mpg average would pummel the 15mpg I averaged with the 3.7L!
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Concerning the engine noise, if european users were first to complain and few americans actually drove the Liberty diesel over here, how can you be shure you'll get something better?
    By the way, I have 4 cup holders in mine and I like classical music...
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Waiting since 2002....
    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=41376

    It is so cruel for Diamler to tease us for so long;)
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Wow what a disappointment. I hoped that we would be seeing it this fall. Now to hear that they have not even made a decision. Even if they decide to go forward, I'm guessing we will not see it for at least a year.

    In any case, I need more cargo room anyway, and would be more interested in a slightly more powerful diesel in the new JGC. It sounds like that would be a real long shot. Too bad.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The article is from 2002, not current!! These are going to be available around Jan/Feb 2005.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    quote- The article is from 2002, not current!! These are going to be available around Jan/Feb 2005.-end

    EXACTLY! That is my point. Wating since 2002 for the Liberty CRD. It was scheduled as a 2004 model year arriving in late 2003, 2004 arriving Spring 2004, 2005 arriving September/October 2004, and now 2005 arriving Spring 2005. When is this thing ever going to arrive? Only modifications are necessary since diesel Liberty has been manufactured in Ohio and exported since start of the Liberty build. Even the PT Cruiser has diesel installed and is exported from Mexico. We just are not offered the diesel versions in USA/Canada.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you need more room and want a diesel. The Excursion with the 6.0 Powerstroke is a good choice. They get 18/25 mpg according to the consumer reviews here on Edmunds. Also a 9.3 satisfaction rating...
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I was responding to atlgax who seemed to think the diesels were not coming.

    I'd rather see Jeep do it right and if it takes time, so be it. Throwing these on the streets just because they're already building them for export will result in what GM did to passenger diesels before. I want the Jeep techs to be trained and all the replacement parts avenues open when these hit the streets. I wonder if techs in CARB states are getting trained to work on them?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Better to be prepared and perfected than problematic. Sure don't want to see another fiasco like the 6.0L Powerstroke introduction.

    I'm being patient. Holding off on a purchase until Liberty arrives. Plan is to order as soon as they are available to order. Sight unseen if necessary. I'm willing to take the risk.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Doh! I guess I did not read that completely. I'm just used to people linking timely articles and I missed the point.

    Excursion? I think that is a little overkill, unless you are a real breeder with a bunch of rugrats and serious towing needs. What about if you need 4wd you ask? Heck, I would not want to even try to get one of these suckers into the woods, much less try to drive one in any urban area.

    I'd just like to see a midsized SUV with a decent diesel, just like DC already sells in their existing JGC in Europe.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We are on the same wavelength. I would be happy with a small diesel vehicle that gets 30-40 mpg. To sell my Suburban it would have to be a PU as I haul things all the time. I just cannot justify any of the PUs offered in the states today. For offroading I think a Wrangler with that diesel would be great.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Start of production delayed (again) to November from October 2004.

    http://www.arifleet.com/production.html
  • flackeflacke Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone know how much the CRD option will be?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    No. Just rumors/speculation at this point. IMHO, it will sticker about the same as a 3.7L. Just don't look for any freebies, big discounts, or rebates for quite awhile. So it will likely be more expensive out-the-door than a 3.7L, I'm guessing by $1,000-$1,500 depending upon whether your dealer will discount it.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/- www/story/09-09-2004/0002247463&EDATE=
    quote
    Chrysler Group's announcement
    to use B5, a 5 percent blend of biodiesel, in each new Jeep(R) Liberty Common
    Rail Diesel (CRD) sport-utility vehicle coming off the assembly line is a
    landmark choice by U.S. auto manufacturers in advancing the use of cleaner
    burning biodiesel.
  • flackeflacke Member Posts: 5
    http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/gen/20040830_Sal- t_Lake_Pump.pdf

    So are they are saying the CRD will be designed to run on B5 or just that it can use B5?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The (french+french-canadian) owner's manual specifies only 50% Cetane. Out here in Europe we are already burning both types of diesel without even knowing which one it is. After 20,000 miles covered with this new engine, it's tail pipe is still clean.
  • rhsrhs Member Posts: 10
    Anyone know if the CRD will be available with a manual transmission when it comes out in the US?

    Also, what about the timing belt? In the Jetta TDI, you have to change it at the recommended frequency or risk major engine damage if it fails. Will the CRD have the same requirements?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    No manual trannys offered in US. Timing belt will need replaced as well. Haven't seen an interval, but they'd be nuts to put anything less than a 80k-100k mile belt system on it.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Manual transission appears to be on the way to extinction like the dinosaurs and the Pontiak Aztek;)
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/13/a01-271661.htm
  • ratbert1ratbert1 Member Posts: 72
    That's unfortunate. I happen to love driving a stick. It's so much fun to me.
  • rhsrhs Member Posts: 10
    It is frustrating that they force you to buy an automatic when you really want a manual. I think that is a clever way of making more money off their product and forcing the customer to buy more than they want. It's strange though that you can get a manual transmission with the gasoline engine. Check the Jeep web site.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The timing belt needs be changed every 60,000 miles according to the manual. To answer a previous post about oil requirement, SAE-10W40 all year but not below -10 degrees C or SAE-5W40 for the colder areas. I've had my 2.8L CRD one year now, done the third (last) tire rotation after 30,000 KM. A previous post from 'Renegader' mentionned disk brakes needed be changed at 60,000 KM. Mine are 28mm thick on their innermost portion and still 27.5mm in the pads zone. In theory there is enough material to cover 100,000 miles.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Mine are 28mm thick on their innermost portion and still 27.5mm in the pads zone. In theory there is enough material to cover 100,000 miles.

    Do they still allow asbestos brake linings over there? That is a lot of mileage on brake pads. We are lucky to get 25k miles with the crappy pads they put on US cars. You can get ceramics for some cars and they hold up well.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    It also may be likely they'll put a different timing belt/tensioner on for the states. 60k mile intervals would be frowned upon here. Some of the early TDI's had 40k/60k mile timing belt intervals but VW starting installing better systems after that. Most are 80k-100k miles. FWIW, the older TDI's can be retrofitted with the new timing belts so that may be a possibility.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    100,000 miles may concern the disks, not the pads. Asbestos is forbidden here as well. The lining on the pads is light grey colored and looks 'traditional'. I was surprised to see that the rear disks are made by Bosch. Perhaps the pads are made in a cosmetics factory? Who knows?
    Concerning the 25K miles, all depends how and where you drive. I downshift a lot and anticipate in our windy mountain roads because of the mass of the truck. I also use the permanent 4WD position going down long hills since the mechanical efficiency is lower. Added together it suffers very little wear regarding where it's being used.
  • chronochrono Member Posts: 149
    Hope this isn't a repost ...

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/autos/columnists.nsf/danwiese/st- ory/B08526F9FC4DB9D586256F0E00523605?OpenDocument&Headline=Je- ep+Liberty+diesel%3A+V-8+torque,+V-6+pep,+I-4+mpg+.+.+.+but+
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05liberty_crd.htm
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I find it a bit sad to read that cosmetic changes for the model to come or a life expectancy of two years (previous article) are the only bits of information you guys are getting. I just took mine to a place in Northern Italy where it took me 3-1/2 hours to cover 30 miles of 'very primitive' mountain paths. My wife called it 'the road to Nepal'... The diesel engine used only 9 Liters of fuel (2-1/4 USGals) during this trip, and the average altitude was well above 6,000 feet. I had to stay in 1st and 2nd gear all the time, always below 2,000 rpm. The VM engine performs beautifully, and I had the chance to compare climbing efficiency with local drivers who had a (TD5) Land-Rover and a (3.1DI) Nissan Patrol: besides the limitation due to stock tires there is nothing to complain about (at least for the driver). I forgot to mention I stayed in 4WD/HI (Permanent mode) and never needed to use the Low gear because I always had more torque than needed. I could spin my 4 wheels whenever I needed to accelerate, and this up to 2,500 meters altitude.
    This very special road starts in SUSA and goes to SESTRIERE, North-West of Italy. It's a 100% adrenalyn, 2 meters wide, you can see the bottom of the valley directly under your elbow and in some places the passenger has the same view at the same time, but on his/her side as well. Good for a Jeep...
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I find it funny that DC is quoted as stating (in some recent articles) the Liberty CRD is being introduced due to recent high fuel prices when the darn thing was announced in late 2001/early 2002 when gasoline and diesel was less than $1.20 gallon. Perhaps the reason they are waiting so long to actually start selling them is to wait for $50 a barrel petroleum.
  • scott919scott919 Member Posts: 17
    well i have done the math and buying a liberty crd vs my 2001 dakota that is payed for I would need to drive the liberty crd for just over 18 years to break even. I plan to purchase a liberty crd when it becomes available, but in no way do I think that its going to save me any money. I just want a diesel suv. I'm not trying to fool myself.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/26/a01-284842.htm

    We’ve had 30,000 hand-raisers,” who’ve contacted dealers about the vehicle in the first two weeks of September, he said.

    Zero availability of Liberty diesel equals a demand that exceeds supply. LOL

    Wonder how many lost sales will be created?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    You would have to go to a very small high mpg vehicle to save money based on your comparision. Anytime you have a paid-off vehicle that has substantially depreciated, it's very hard to get into something new that will be "cheaper", regardless of mpg. Since you've decided to buy something new, you'd be further ahead to compare the new vehicles cost-to-operate, vs comparing to your current substantially cheaper vehicle. That would be the only fair comparision anyway. Still not sure the Jeep CRD is going to be substantially cheaper, considering how cheap you can buy a gas Liberty. In the case, it will come down to what the real-world mileage works out to be, the reliability, and resale value.
  • jaybird1jaybird1 Member Posts: 1
    It appears that the Jeep Liberty CRD will retail for $25,795.

    http://www.askmen.com/toys/cars_100/108b_car_review.html

    Does anybody have any information on what options will be available for the CRD Sport and CRD Limited?
  • flackeflacke Member Posts: 5
    The Diesel engin has been pushed back again as of September 30th. It's been delayed from Nov 5th to Nov 18th. BooHoo.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Article in October 11, 2004 pg. 22 states the diesel engine option will add $8,000 to the sticker. If this is correct, I'll buy a Ram 2500 diesel i/o the Liberty.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    That is absurd.

    Then they will complain about nobody buying it and say "see we told you people don't want diesels".

    They are setting themselves up for failure if they charge that much more.
  • scott919scott919 Member Posts: 17
    Oct. 11 2004 pg. 22 of what publication?
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The $8000 price bump for the CRD breaks down as follows:

         Factory diesel engine option - $1000

         Dealer paint sealant - $7000

         What some people will pay
         extra for the CRD - $8000

    Supplies will be limited, so get in line early!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Autoweek is the publication. Sorry that I omitted this.
  • flackeflacke Member Posts: 5
    Well I'm out. I was hoping for a $3000 to $5000 up charge max. That with the limited production will make it out of my range. I thought a strong selling point was saving all that money at the pump. What a heart braker.
  • 2fastdre2fastdre Member Posts: 59
    $8K premium !?! However, the majority of it is a dealer markup? What are they doing? They are killing the appeal of the first mid-size SUV!

    Hits head against the wall...
    2FastDre.
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