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Tranny won't go into OD until its' sensor says it's warmed up. Takes a couple miles in warm weather and about 4-5 in cold. Seems to take longer in cruise control. If you blast along at 70 it will help warm things up but you'll get lousy mpg.
The big $175.00 rip-off book has lots of tricky driving methods to reprogram the tranny to shift smoother. Basically you're bleeding air out of the hydraulic system. It soulds like some of these things left the factory and/or dealer without enough tranny fluid which would cause lots of bubbles and shavings.
Another big book item for people with rear end noises and trac-lock differentials. If you do ten to twelve figure eight turns it should distribute the differential lube to all of the clutch plates and help. Mine liked to make noise backing up and it would occasionally bind pulling into a parking space as if it were in 4wd-part-time. I mentioned that to the dealer who thought it wasn't even worth writing down.
Only been getting 19 mpg in 2wd ever since I got it back from the blinking light trip to the lemon-dealer. It was a guaranteed 23 mpg in 2wd regardless of how I drove before lemon-dealer looked at it. Maybe they programed economy out of it since I wouldn't pay $89.00 up front on a warranty service.
I'll keep this thing cause it's bought and fun to drive but it's looking like a trade-in on anything but a daimler chrysler jeep product. Technology is far enough along that a new car should have great reliability, fuel economy, and headlights that see down the road. Jeep gets an F+ from me in their sales and service departments.
Good luck to all.
Turblediesel
I would venture to say ,to bring it in for a check up.
Tell them the noises and when it happens.
The turbo can be spooled in neutral and revved,
at this point the mechanic can tell by placing a long screwdriver on the unit ,
Place the handle on the side of the ear to hear if a seal or bearing is damaged.you can tell right away by hi pitch whine sound,a sign that it is starting to go.
The vibrations will vibrate through the screwdriver to the ear.A good unit will have a "rrrr.." sound.
This is the same for an alternator,or water pump that is not as easily accessable.
Goodluck..
Lightnin3..
Sounds like your libby needs servicing.
I would set up an appointment with a 5 Star DCX dealership that has diesel Tech's.
It sounds like you need a tranny fluid drained out,changed and tranny filter changed.
I would also get the differentials,and transfer case fluids changed out to ,Mopar synthetic.
If you want better performance out of her,
1/leave 10 minutes earlier,
2/let it idle to warm up for 5 minutes,or
plug in the oil heater,over night.
This will ensure proper engine oil temp,and fluid being pumped to the tranny,and transfer case.
Before she is warmed upm try to keep speeds under 50mph.
There is a Temperature sensor on the tranny that disengages the 5th gear when the engine is not up to proper running temp.
I would also suggest using anyone of these fuel additives,
Power service
Stanadyne
Clean Flo
for lubricity,and cetane improvement,for better performance as well.
I hope you find a five star dealer,who will give you their card for future service.
Good luck..
Lightnin3...
The noise you describe is not a turbocharger associated sound. Turbos usually whistle/whine so the sound must be from elsewhere. If the turbo fails, there will be a significant loss of power and you will probably have a large cloud of smoke coming out of the tailpipe.
I strongly urge you to have the bloody thing looked at.
If you let the car sit for five to eight hours, all of the trans fluid drains into the trans sump. When you start it in the morning let it idle for at least thirty seconds in Park before putting it into gear. During these thirty seconds, the pump in the trans refills the torque converter and everything else. All air is purged from where ever it gets into. I have been doing this since the day I bought it and have not had a single problem with the performance of the trans.
As to the binding sensation, you must have a limited slip differential. Chrysler limited slip units are from Dana. Dana makes several types of these units. The one Chrysler uses is a cone in cone design and not a clutch pack design. Unfortunately the cone in cone design likes to bind in reverse. I had one in my 1993 Dodge Dakota so I know what you are experiencing. Depending on the Dana rear end in the Liberty, there may be a clutch pack that can be substituted. I did that when I has the rear end on my Dakota rebuilt. The binding sensation ceased.
As to your fuel economy, that is not the norm. Find another dealer. I have been fortunate enough to have purchased my CRD from a very good dealer with a very good service department.
Does anyone else have a problem like this?
If the shudder issue is a software issue, then it will not matter what you use in the trans. A different lubricant/fluid may mask the problem to some degree or another, but the problem is still there. If there is a mechanical issue with the trans, that then will need to be fixed.
Trying a different synthetic trans fluid may offer some relief and not impact on the warranty. The issue here is that you need to address the problem at it's source and not bandaid it.
Farout.
I spent 3 hours on Wed at the dealer attempting to find out why the engine is jerking and is getting suck rotten mileage! We have the low sulfer fuel now and it seems to make no difference at all.
My dealer said STAR has turned this over to someone higher up. The tec said my EGR is showing signs while he was driving of a problem, and the trans is not shifting as it should, because it's a slam type of shift, not a firm shift as he says it should be.
This has me really wondering if DCX was rushing into production at our expense! The customer service people are asking what I want, and I said a CRD that works right!
Any suggestions, and is anyone having this as well?
Farout.
Ford requires a cetane rating of 42. Due to engine drivability and performance issues, fuel samples from various stations were submitted to Ford’s fuel testing facility. Samples returned results of 38 cetane. Woodhouse now recommends a cetane booster when they previously recommended no additives other than anti gel in very cold weather. They asserted only 1 to 1.5 MPG increase in fuel economy, cleaner EGR valve, less soot and an overall cleaner engine – also that cetane booster has more effect on low grade fuel than high grade fuel – may not get any increase on high grade fuel.
A retired oil industry engineer was available at the clinic. He made a brief presentation and statements that go against buying fuel at big truck stops. First off all, he disputed the 38 cetane rating. He said that there are only 3 suppliers of diesel for the area (Coop, BP and Iforget) and everyone gets their fuel out of the same pipeline and the fuel is “commingled.” He also said that cetane is controlled by the suppliers and that there may be a small loss of cetane in transit but that is allowed for by entering a slightly higher cetane at the origin(s).
After a brief back and forth between the Ford guy that sends in the samples and the engineer, the engineer acknowledged that there are some other producers that make a lower grade product that sometimes sell fuel for use by power companies in diesel generators and it sometimes (wrongly) ends up at truck stops because large diesel engines are more “tolerant” of low grade diesel fuel. He also acknowledged that lower grade heating oil sometimes ends up in the system. And, they make a lot of money selling lower grade diesel as good fuel. The lower grade fuel is apparently trucked to the locations and “commingled” with good fuel. Some areas in NE have only one choice of fuel to sell at all the local stations.
The Dodge (CRD) diesel tech said that they are having really good luck with their CRDs out there. The service manager said that there was one CRD that had and engine problem that was traced to fuel quality and solved by using cetane booster. Woodhouse recommended buying fuel from a variety of locations and keeping track of mileage asserting that fuel quality can make a difference of 5 mpg – stick with the place that gives you the best mileage (duh!). Keep in mind that fuel is pretty much the same for an area except for companies that are blending in inferior product. This has a ring of truth, since we just went through a very mild winter here and it stands to reason there may have been some extra heating oil all refined up with no place to go.
With regard to 0w40 Mobil 1 and the CRD owner’s manual that says that 5w40 may be used, the service manager said that DCX diesel engineers say that only Mobil 1 synthetic 0w40 is good enough and the owner’s manual is wrong. The contact at DCX was “shocked” that 5w40 was in the owner’s manual saying that only 0w40 Mobil 1 synthetic is okay because of the additive package in the oil.
On the red antifreeze, no other antifreeze should ever be mixed with it because antifreezes with a different base can cause a precipitant that can clog up the cooling system. If you have a problem on the road and need repairs to the cooling system you are better off adding straight water until you can be sure you have the right product. Some oil change places are real helpful and top off all your fluids. Do not let them top off you cooling system, or any fluids, unless you are sure they have the right product.
With regard to draining the filter at every oil change, if you are not finding water in the fuel that is fine, but if there is water and you don’t drain it the water leads to rust and corrosion inside the filter that can lead to other problems. They showed an example of a corroded rusty insert that failed to maintain seal and contaminated a fuel system – expensive repair.
TSBs should not be done unless the related issue exists.
There was a lot of discussion about “tow haul mode” and “over drive off” that the big diesel pickup truck guys seemed to think was pretty complicated. The new diesel pickups are very “smart” and tow best in tow haul mode with cruise on. The only thing that seemed to apply to the CRD is that it is better to be over drive off when the transmission is doing a lot of “hunting”.
Here is an interesting table that correlates transmission oil life with oil temperature:
175 degrees 100k miles
195 degrees 50k miles
212 degrees 25k miles
235 degrees 12k miles
255 degrees 6.25k miles
275 degrees 3k miles
295 degrees 1.5k miles
315 degrees 750 miles
335 degrees 325 miles
375 degrees 80 miles
390 degrees 40 miles
415 degrees less than 30 minutes
Never let the engine idle more than 5 minutes. It is a waste of fuel and small diesel engines (Cummins, PowerStroke, CRD and Sprinter) are not as tolerant of this as over the road truck engines. When cold, a two minute maximum warm-up followed by easy driving is best.
Driving easy for the first 500 miles is for braking in the differential and nothing else.
Nothing new really on turbo cool down. Worst case scenario is to pull a trailer at high speed on the interstate on a hot day, fly into a rest stop, shut off the engine and run into the bathroom. One guy said, “Suppose some guy didn’t know about this and did this a few times, how much damage did he do?” Laughter all around.
I am making no personal assertions about any of this. I am just relating the information for your perusal. However, Woodhouse claims to be the largest diesel pickup truck dealer in the US. They gave away some samples of cetane booster so I will give it a try and see what happens. I opened a bottle and smelled it. I looks like diesel and smells like diesel / WD40.
I admit I am having very serious doubts about this CRD engine. Maybe they way they are set up in Europe is so much less complex and works so much better. I know 19 mpg sucks!
The dealer is ordering a ECU that has not been updated and starting over from scratch as they feel this last tsb made things much worse! At first the tsb seemed to help, then it went down hill rather rapidly. It cost me $46.50 to go 360 miles today, I am just so irritated, and I am not sure or what to be irritated at.
Farout
I personally think that the 2007 emissions standards are excessive, especially with current oil prices and the huge fuel savings the US could get from converting even 10% of our personal vehicles to diesel. I would encourage anyone to lobby Congress on this issue (I realize the EPA wrote the regs, but I don't see the EPA changing unless ordered to do so by Congress).
The oil level thing does have my attention. My first oil change I measured the oil and my recollection is that it was about half way between the marks. So, I thought the manual was wrong (or I measured wrong) and I filled it up. I wish I had paid more attention to this. I am a little annoyed that over filling may have put oil into my intercooler. I will measure the oil next time and go with that level, as you suggested.
I am a little conflicted on the oil quality thing. I don't want to pay $6.50 a quart for oil if $4 oil is good enough.
My dip stick is right on the mark. And may I say leaves a real nice set of ring lines on my fingers thanks to this really odd dipstick. What's wrong with the old type of dip sticks?
Farout
Farout
Over here most diesel vehicles have had the common rail system since 8 to 10 years.
Our truck fuel is the same we use in passenger cars. We commonly have to press a button to change the pumping speed for filling larger tanks and that's it.
Oil viscosity to local understanding is related to climate. In northen countries we will use 0-W40, and going south 15-W40 will be more common.
Antifreeze mixing has always been an issue. Since the day engines were made using aluminium, radiators evolved from brass+copper to plastic+aluminium, and there has been special attention given to stay away from galvanic/voltaic corrosion.
People have had diesel engines for 35 years here because gasoline was ~40% more expensive than diesel. I never met a person complaining about the behaviour of gasolene engines. It's always been money (tax) related. Today with oil depletion coming up, the perspective is changing and the need of a diesel versus a gas engine is no longer clearly motivated except for towing or pulling things.
There is still the ongoing discussion about egr valves. We are supposed to have cleaner fuel with higher cetane, but these valves still need cleaning when using the ULSD :sick:
Local scrapyards are full of turbo-diesel engines in good shape. I think one has to work really hard with his turbo to damage it.
I agree!!
what's the difference between shell Rotella syn. 5-40w and Mobil 1 5-40w?
I think the answer to that question is not much. When I looked up the specs a year ago, the specs on Rotella syn were only slightly less than Mobil 1. The idea that the CRD engine is so fragile that oil that is slightly less in quality will damage the engine is to me ridiculous. However, I am not an oil engineer either.
The CRD engine is just "a very good one" within it's generation. In my owner's manual it is clearly written or equivalent concerning lubricants.
Concerning the local second hand market, there are more CRDs on the road than on display. I doubt people would accept going to the dealership every month to keep the thing on the road. I've only seen happy owners who wave the hand as we cross on the road :shades:
Look under SEMA and the MF act.
Frankly, I would not touch either of those oils. They are over treated petroleum products with double digit vaporization rates and tons of viscosity improvers and other garbage thrown into them to make them work. I view their base stocks to be barely adequate to do the job.
About 150 miles ago I changed my oil to Amsoil 15W-40. The CRD starts and runs just fine and in fact is a bit quieter and smoother running. This oil specs out closely to the Mobil 1 5W-40 oil but has half the vaporization rate of the Mobil and has a vaporization rate that is one-third less than Shell Rotella 5W-40.
I sent the specs for the Series 3000 5W-30 to VM Motori and they shot it down. They stated that it did not have the high temp protection offered by the 40 weight in warm or hot weather.
I am using the Amsoil 15W-40 full synthetic in my CRD. It specs closely to Mobil 1 5W-40. CRD runs fine.
How can the engine be smoother? Better quality lubricant. I do not have a shuddering issue with this engine or trans.
link title
I have been to the Mobil site before and not found a recommendation for the CRD. Now they are recommending Mobil 1 5w40 for a 2005-06 2.8 diesel. Wouldn't you think the recommendation would be 0w40? I tried different options on the search such as below 0 or above 0. Then it shut me off for maximum number of searches. I could only get 5w40. :surprise: :confuse:
Nope!
You could be right, I don't know. The sad thing is that, if true, DCX is making a lot of good hard working diesel techs part of the scam, hopefully unknowingly.
Domestically, our diesel fuel sucks. It is moderately high in sulphur, and has a cetane of barely 40. CI-4+ rated oil makes more sense here.
Once ULSD has been in place for several months, then CF rated oil might be okay. Let us see what happens to the cetane rating once ULSD is in place.
It is probably easy for Mobil-Exxon to meet the automakers needs so that is why they use them.
I do not know if the urea solution is synthetic or from biological sources. If it is synthetic, it is probably cleaner and more uniform.
Is the urea refined or biological? Does it come from India?
Should be cheap, no?
Good comeback!