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Karl is entitled to his opinion, however, the Liberty CRD is quicker than the V6 gas Liberty. Secondly, low speed acceleration is what the diesel Liberty torque monster excels at. 295 lb ft of torque at 1800 rpm. Off the line this Liberty is QUICK.
I am not impressed at all with Karls opinion.
Unrefined??? Very controlled and unobtrusive vibration of engine, smooth acceleration, minimal sound, excellent gearbox (the five speed automatic is very, very, good) is my opinion of the CRD. What is unrefined about the CRD?
Noisy? OK, 59 dBA at idle, 79 dBA full throttle, 74 dBA 60 mph. The sound level is unrefined. Quieter than diesels in 3/4 trucks, not quiet enough to win the hearts of people used to gasoline engine sound levels.
If you want to get a real kick about the torque, get a Spanset around a telephone pole and fix it to the truck. Engage low gear and let go at idle speed. You will normally rip the 4 tires before you reach 1600 rpm! It feels like having a huge DOG at the end of a leash when it sees a cat. No gasser will give you that kind of feeling close to idle speed.
spete
spete
I believe that would be illegal - at least it would be in the U.S.
tidester, host
I was pulling fence posts with my old Cherokee and those big 6" ones that are 3' deep will hold you steady without a lever on the chain. Doesn't have to be a telephone pole!
On a lighter note, I took the Lib from Denver to my cabin in the mountains at 10,000 feet. Awesome torque! The Lib went into 5th and crawled up the passes, never needing to downshift. About 23 mpg on the first tank. Not bad considering it was a totally new engine and I also did some 4-wheeling.
I was very, very impressed with the vehicle. I love the torque, the ride, and the look. I've also had a 2000 Jetta TDI and a 2003 Beetle TDI for my daughter. Both consistently got 50+ mpg on the highway and around 42+ mpg around town. The TDI was definitely quieter but I love the sound of the Lib. I just hope reliability doesn't become an issue.
take care pal,
NJ, USA
ps, they make some great beers!!!
The disapointing thing that has cropped up is a little vibration and noticable and objectionable sound coming from what seems to be the tail pipe or rear muffler. You can hear it on the outside and really hear it on the inside of the vehicle.
It is worse when the a/c is turned on and only happens when stopped at a light and in 'drive'. I looked at 2 of the exhaust hangers and they seem fine, I was surprised to see that they had been greased. Someone was serious about making it as quiet as possible.
I have an appointment with a very nervous service department tomorrow. I think I'm their first problem. We'll see how it goes.
I assume that fuel purchased in Summer will have a higher ratio of #2 fuel oil to #1. Number 2 has more BTUs per gallon (or liter,....I guess that would be kilocalories per liter.) More BTUs should mean even better mileage. So, although I've received pretty good mileage from the machine so far, I'd like to see if I can expect better on long Summer trips.
Wow! $5.72 cents a gallon. They should have good roads in France with all of that extra tax money tacked on.
During winter I was getting 10 to 15% less mileage with both normal and B5 diesel fuels. This is related to the air mass sensor. Another test I made was using the high efficiency K&N air filter over several tankfulls: it brings more air at low rpm (better acceleration??) and thus induces lowerer mileage by ~5%. Several people here reported the same thing with common rail diesels, and they finally go back to the original filters. I think there is a 'hickup' with the timing of the automatic gearbox where it could lock faster. I'de like to hear from people who have manual transmission. But I'm stubborn and won't give mine away too kickly!
Dropped the thing off at dealer. They were great and promised to fix the noise, didn't hassle me, identified the issue without hesitation or question.
I wish I'd bought a Jeep years ago.
How's that stuff in Winter? I was told it is unstable and really has a tendency to gel up in cold weather. I also was told that the vehicle takes a mileage dip using biodiesel. Are either true?
What do they make it from there? corn, soybeans?
I placed my order on March 07, 2005. The dealer said 8-13 weeks.
I am guessing 10 weeks. With some reports that the Liberty is not rolling off the lots like previously predicted I am hoping to get mine sooner.
What do you folks think?
Thanks,
TP
Below is a thing I found on the national biodiesel board website. Minnesota is going to require biodiesel (in some low percentage like B1 or B2) and will be the first state in the nation to mandate it. Given that, I found the following information which suggests at B2 levels there;s no real differnece:
Myth: Biodiesel does not perform as well as diesel. Fact: One of the major advantages of biodiesel is the fact that it can be used in existing engines and fuel injection equipment with little impact to operating performance. Biodiesel has a higher cetane number than U.S. diesel fuel. In more than 50 million miles of in-field demonstrations, B20 showed similar fuel consumption, horsepower, torque, and haulage rates as conventional diesel fuel. Biodiesel also has superior lubricity and it has the highest BTU content of any alternative fuel (falling in the range between #1 and #2 diesel fuel).
Myth: Biodiesel doesn't perform well in cold weather. Fact: Biodiesel will gel in very cold temperatures, just as the common #2 diesel does. Although pure biodiesel has a higher cloud point than #2 diesel fuel, typical blends of 20% biodiesel are managed with the same fuel management techniques as #2 diesel. Blends of 5% biodiesel and less have virtually no impact on cold flow.
Thanks Chad
Two things are different: It doesn't make the funny noise at idle and my mileage has jumped from 21 highway to around 26.5. We took it out on the highway tonight for about an hour of steady driving and even with a few stops it was a big improvement. The diesel sound (marbles in a coffee can) seems more smooth but that might be my imagination.
My dealer was great about the issue and the new car salesman checked in about it. They seem to care about it and at least for the time being are paying attention.
Why would a 4 cylinder engine need a humongous muffler?
I'm also still wondering why the Liberty is so much heavier than similar 4X4s sold by the competition. I guess it's about 1,000 lbs heavier than some others. Is it just that much more rugged that it's structure requires more weight?
I do like the way it rides.
Concerning weight, you could probably compare to Nissan and Toyota. Have a look underneath your truck and you will understand you are not playing in the same yard as a CRV, RAV4, Subaru or Mazda 4WDs. These are very well built, but for other uses.
ps: I live nearby an important BMW dealership and I can see X3s and X5s coming back on trailers. One of their tecs told me 'Oh, are you really buying one of those?' referring to the Liberty. I drive by, I don't need towing sofar.
The Liberty is over 4200 lbs. and rides very smooth. Its the weight of the diesel and the 5 speed tranny over the 3.7 gasoline unit. Have had no quality issues and have totally enjoyed the vehicle thus far. Most diesels will not see their best fuel economy until 10,000 miles...so I expect the mileage to improve with time. Our dealer here in north Texas sold all 4 CRD's in his inventory on one Saturday afternoon. We took ours home for a two day test drive and bought it...if you drive this vehicle you'll buy it.
my CRD is being built the dealer says and he is saying i'll have it by the end of the month :P
my dealer's first and only CRD limited has been on the lot for a month...i would have guessed it would have been gobbled up already. fuel prices are my guess.
in NC diesel has dropped from $2.26/gal to $2.14.
spete
Any ideas would surely be appreciated. Guess I'll complain to the stealership. Did the new muffler actully change your MPG or just your noise.
Some guy put in a magna flow in his CRD on the kj lost site. no word on mpg improvements yet.
I don't live in a large metropolitan area. When I drive in one I am forced to adopt some of the driving styles of the tailgater described above. If you live in a heavily populated area, your mileage may suffer as a result of the way you are forced to drive.
Or,.....could it be the type of diesel fuel you are purchasing?
don't give up on it til you drive it more.
There are a couple of other good boards around for info too...kjjeep, and jeepsunlimited have alot useful info. Anybody aware of the harsher break in stlyes for the CRD. Been reading some on the VW diesels. Lots of reving and changinf of rpm's. Something about the compression and the sealing of the engine. Is this true? Let me know what you think...thanks again
I actually think my CRD with the 2.8L is GROSSLY overpowered and wish they'd gone a little smaller on the output. The torque is insane.
I am with you on the "take it easy' philosophy with the pedal but still wish I got better MPG. I'm pulling 20 in town and no better than 24 on the highway but our weather has not gone warmer than 50F this week with freezing temps everymorning for 2 weeks at least. I'm looking foward to a nice highway trip in the heat to see what this thing will do.
I am wondering about checking the oil level. If I do it at the fuel station it reads low, but if I do it at home after about a 5 min wait it is ok. What then is the "real" oil level? Since it has the factory Mobil 1 oil I expected that it would be very "slippery" and flow back into the sump faster, but maybe it is more "clingly"
Any thoughts?
Thanks
From my point of view the 2.8 may have lots of foot lbs, but it is much slower in pick up than the gas. There is more noise (clater) from the engine which is normal for this type of engine. It took a lot more fule peddel to get it going. The five speed auto trans is nice, wonder why they don't have it in the 3.7. Overall the 2.8 is a good choice if you are hauling something, but as to paying for the extra cost of the 2.8 engine and the higher cost of fule over gasoline, if one buys the 2.8 just for the better mpg, I am not sure after 100,000 miles there would be much of a cost savings. Anyone else have other thoughts?
well will see if it happends.
My 150HP 2.8 CRD was built in 2003 and doesn't have the variable geometry turbo that gives better boost in the low rpm. The difference is really minimal because the tranny's converter compensates in that range. In fact most of my driving is between 1600 and 2100 rpm in the city (~100HP), 2500 rpm on the highway (~120HP) and I never use the full power range.
The new CRD is given for 163 HP here as well, but you should consider the range you really use and not only the extra 200 rpm at the high end (3600rpm/150hp versus 3800rpm/163hp). If you try your truck offroad you will find it's more pleasant at 2000 rpm than at 3500
Glad to hear someone else is getting the 28 mpg that I've been getting. I was beginning to think I was extremely lucky.
I'm hoping the "farm-like" engine won't buy the farm until two or three hundred thousand miles.
There are kits out there to boost the ground clearance and of course bigger tires would help.
What was the problem that lead the dealer to replace your exhaust pipe and muffler?
And when I came to pick it up, it was fixed.
The vehicle made a louder than normal puttering vibration at idle that came from the back end of the vehicle after it was heated up and was stopped in gear at a stop light or in the driveway. It would be louder with the A/C on. It could not really be detected from outside but only really from the inside and I believe it was some kind of baffle obstruction that caused a vibration in the exhuaust and resonated with the body of the vehicle.
New muffler. Sound gone. End of problem.
With 1450 miles we are now getting 26.7 on the highway. Mileage improves as the engine gets more miles.
Hope this helps.
Anyway, here's the first question:
The advertising literature shows an RPM vs Torque curve superimposed upon an RPM vs Power curve. Will the Liberty's mileage be maximized at the point when the engine is at the highest point on the Speed Vs Torque curve? This looks to be about 2000 RPM which is around 60 miles per hour (100 km / hr) with the automatic transmission.
And here's the second:
Will the engine have greater longevity if it is run at the top of the Speed Vs Torque curve?
Some of you people seem pretty smart and I am anxious to see what the answer is.
:confuse: