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Toyota Sienna 2004+
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Comments
In addition to the A/V input you also get 2 110 volt A/C power outlets, again only if you get the DVD from the factory. So you won't need an A/C power invertor for your VCR, XBOX, or Playstation.
Good luck, Becky
Anyway, a deal breaker to us (her) is the fact that she insists on a power drivers seat, which means you have to get the XLE (Guess for 27K they can't squeeze it into an LE). But, then you get the power hatch, which she hated. Plus you are over 30K now, pricey for a van.
The only one in stock was a limited, MSRP over 35K
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I also talked with the dealer who had called Toyota himself to determine what the deal was with the moonroof and he is pretty convinced that when he gets his first XLE AWD on the lot (mid-May) it will have a moonroof, but he will be the first one there watching it roll off the truck to verify it for himself.
Personally, I am thinking the only way to get AWD and a moonroof is to go with a Limited. This really puts me in a quandry as the wife really wants a moonroof, but for the extra cost, I am having a hard time justifying it as the only other feature on the Limited that I want is the side curtain airbags. This equates to around a 3K jump from the XLE AWD with side curtain airbags. Tough to say a moonroof is worth that much.
Go with 93 Octane and brown-bag your lunch :-)
P.S: It is surprising how manufacturers recommend Octane 91 when the only ones available are 87, 89 and 93 !! :-)
93 Octane cost more but you get better mileage. It would be useful if someone did a comparision using both fuel types to deternmine the true cost per tank.
Anyway, assuming filling up every week of the year, the total cost is approx $200 and that assumes a 20 cent difference. I thought is was closer to 10 cents ($100 per year) but I am not sure.
Thanks for your info. By the way, does most of the DVD option factory installed or dealer installed? Any difference in price or workmanship? I am thinking about buying Sienna with DVD + Nav when it comes out in June or new Nissan Quest.
DC.
does not come with a spare tire. I did not notice any mounting holes either. The brochure says it's a dealer installed option, but, 3 dealers in the area don't know anything about it.
Like to have snow tires and could not find any "run flat" ones in 225/60R17 or 215/65R16!
Good snow tires make such a big difference (~3 times the traction) that I'll rather do FWD with snows than AWD with all-season's. Yet I was hopping to get AWD and snows!
-Thanks
But I heard someone from the Atlanta are got theirs dealer installed. But was missing the 110 output.
Run flats are rated to hold up for 100 miles with no air. But don't know of any snow tires that are run flats.
I could live with just having the spare for long winter trips and not carry it when I'm within 100 miles from home (I got AAA).
FWD have a compact spare under the car..
So far all I found for winter tires are the following:
Winter tires size 215/65-16
(manufacture, model, and speed rating)
Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 Q
Dunlop Grandtrek SJ4 LT
Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW2 H
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice Q
Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow T
Pirelli Winter 210 Snowsport H
Toyo Observe GP-4 Q
Yokohama Geolandar I/T+ T
and in size 225/60-17
Pirelli Winter 210 Snowsport H
The AWD comes with 17" run flat tires.
The non AWD 17" are not run flats.
There is mention that toyota softened the suspension on the AWD models to compensate for the firmness of run-flats.
I test drove an AWD Ltd, 16" FWD XLE, & 17" FWD XLE. My impression was that the AWD was very firm. This was the first one I drove and before I read about the run-flat/suspension. Next I drove the 16" FWD. Nice smooth ride. 17 FWD is a little firmer but I liked it better and that's what I bought.
If the DVD screen is not factory installed, how are they going to install LCD monitor up on the ceiling? I don't want them to rip apart the fabric nor run the wire outside which is visible. That's why I prefer factory installed DVD system with RCA Line-In input for the VCR to be added later. I have far too many Disney tapes than DVDs, so it is more practical to have the VCR installed.
Thx.
DC.
If I didn't see how good it looked, I wouldn't believe it myself! Hey, if you leave your e-mail on public profile, maybe I can forward the picture of the finished product for you! By the way, I own a Lexus LS400. Is that what you drive too :-) ?
I updated my profile for the public. Send me a photo if you can. I am interested. BTW, I drive SC 400. Take Care...
> Does anyone have information regarding how the
> AWD systems compare between the XLE Sienna AWD
> and the Pilot EX?
Sienna's system should be theoretically better. But keep in mind that real life implementation is often more important than the basic principle of the AWD system.
Sienna uses open differentials + traction control. Normal drive is 50/50 split between front wheels and rear wheels. Pilot uses VTM-4, the same system as MDX. It basically is front biased; so it is practically a FWD drive car under normal driving condition. VTM-4 would transfer torque to rear wheel under slipping condition, and under certain pre-programmed condition such as when accelerating.
So Sienna is a genuine "full time AWD"; whereas Pilot's system is closer to "part-time with automatic engaging AWD". And with Sienna's 50/50 split, the situations which demand torque transfer by the AWD system is less likely to happen.
In real life, I think Pilot's system should work well. But the real difference is Sienna's VSC (Vehicle Stability Control). This system really works and would correct skidding/oversteer/understeer (while you cannot defy the law of physics if the speed is too high). AWD + VSC + Winter Tires is the best combination current technology could offer.
The lack of VSC (or VSA for Honda) is a major omission in the Pilot.
As posted on "what did you pay" I just put my deposit down on the Le-7 with #8 for a very good price. I was told 2-4 weeks, so we will see.
Does anyone know if this comes with any headphones? How many? Dealers don't seem clear on this.
Thanks,
bev
Becky
A follow-on: does the toyota system then reduce power to wheels that are slipping, or is the system just full-time 50/50 split? One of the appealing things about the pilot's system is that you can lock it in at low speeds to a 50/50 split, giving you something extra to get out of a bad situation. One could argue that the full-time 50/50 split might avoid that need, but it seems any vehicle can eventually need a little extra assistance (or less wheel spin) to get out of trouble.
> that are slipping, or is the system just full-time
> 50/50 split?
Torque is transferred to the non-slipping wheels, so the split is variable. They have not mentioned specs on maximum torque transfer.
> One of the appealing things about the pilot's
> system is that you can lock it in at low speeds
> to a 50/50 split
I believe that the maximum torque Pilot's VTM-4 can transfer to the rear is 55%; that's more or less the same as Sienna under normal driving condition :-) . THe VTM-4 Lock or differential lock is more necessary in front biased system (e.g. Pilot; as you need wheel slipping before torque transfer takes place) or AWD systems without left/right limited slipping (in one or both axles).
Sienna's system is capable of transferring most of the torque to a single non-slipping wheel. So you won't get stuck even if you have one wheel on gripping surface. But if you do get stuck in a Sienna, the chance is that availability of a lock won't help you either.
Also he said that his technician who went to the Toyota school on the 2004 Sienna said you cannot mount any other tires on the vehicle because of the sensors in the wheel or something that the parts guy didn't understand. For instance, you couldn't use a spare tire even if you paid extra (about $300) to get one.
This sounds like a misunderstanding to me, maybe the tech meant you cannot mount any other tires on the run flat rims? So if you want to replace the run flats with regular tires or winter tires you need to replace the wheels also. Or maybe he meant that a small spare would trigger the tire pressure warning light, which you could just ignore till you got your regular tire fixed.
I was interested in putting a spare tire in the trunk and switching from the run flats, because of their cost and limited availability and 100 mile life span when flat. And to get a better winter tire.
Has anyone else researched this problem and what did you find out??
Thanks
Actually, Toyota does have a space saving spare tire option for the AWD. It comes with a mounting bracket to seat the tire in the well behind 3rd row (the seat cannot be folded down when the tire is there). But nobody seems to have seen one, so I don't have any more information as to how it looks like or how it works. So using a spare tire has to be possible; just not sure if it is any different from other spare tires.
When all wheels/tire have EQUAL traction, high or low. If equal traction all around then 25/25/25/25 will be the norm.
Absent some additional device or capability with simply three open differentials the instant slippage occurs ALL of the engine torque is routed to the wheel or wheels with the LEAST traction.
Most everyone I know that has purchased an AWD or 4WD passenger vehicle did so primarily for those times when all around traction is NOT likely to be equal. Three open diff'ls alone is USELESS.
Something more is needed.
The Highlander and the RX300 use a viscous coupling.
But to avoid the additional expense of providing actual AWD capability in the RX300 and the Highlander T/L used a viscous coupling across the center differential that's always FLACCID, never stiffens up enough to raise the torque distribution ratio above about 75/25 F/R, and was measured to be about 90/10 F/R at the initial onset of slippage.
See the viscous coupling AWD design in the Chrysler T&C for a more complex but "working" AWD design. And please do not take that statement as an overall endorsement of the Chrysler.
I cannot confirm for the Sienna, but both the out-going RX300 and the new RX330 use differing front and rear final drive ratios to unbalance the engine torque distribution F/R. For the RX300 I was initially told 70/30 F/R torque distribution. I was recently informed by Lexus that the RX330 will also use differing F/R final drive ratios.
The new RX330, like the Mercedes ML and Toyota Sequoia, and likely the Sienna, uses the ABS pump to provide brake fluid pressurization for a "virtual" AWD system. If a wheel, or wheels, begin to slip, then the brake for those wheels is applied in moderation to maintain roughly equal traction "virtually" all around.
The "fly" in this particular ointment is the possibility of over-taxing and/or over-heating the electrically powered low capacity and low duty-cycle ABS pump.
Other than ABS itself the pump on my 01 AWD RX300 is only used for VSC/Trac. Even so I have had it time out and become inoperative upon getting the RX slightly sideways on a muddy and wet dirt road.
There is a post somewhere abouts indicating that the Sequoia's AWD capability only lasts for about 30 to 45 seconds before the ABS pump protection time-out disables the AWD functionality.
I suspect the RX330 and the Sienna will have about the same AWD capability, 30 to 45 seconds of continuous "virtual" AWD capability before the duty-cycle of the ABS pump is exceeded.
On my RX300 it took about 10 to 15 minutes for the time-out to be automatically reset and again have VSC/Trac capability.
> I was recently informed by Lexus that the RX330
> will also use differing F/R final drive ratios.
RX330 also has 50/50 split during normal driving.
> possibility of over-taxing and/or over-heating
> the electrically powered low capacity and low
> duty-cycle ABS pump.
There was some concern when this type of AWD system was first introduced into the market. But as demonstrated by BMW X5 and Mercedes ML, this has NOT been a problem even for OFF ROAD use. So for ON ROAD use, the chance of that is even lower.
> Other than ABS itself the pump on my 01 AWD RX300
> is only used for VSC/Trac. Even so I have had it
> time out and become inoperative upon getting the
> RX slightly sideways on a muddy and wet dirt
> road.
I can't see how that is possible other than some mechanical problem with your car. VSC uses both engine power reduction and ABS pump; but only for a very brief seconds (usually fraction of a second). I really can't see how you can have VSC active continuously for it to overheat.
Mind you, the use of ABS brake by VSC or traction control is much less than if you are actually braking! So are you saying that the ABS would stop working after the use of brakes for less than a minute? I have not heard or seen any reports about this at all.
> I suspect the RX330 and the Sienna will have
> about the same AWD capability, 30 to 45 seconds
> of continuous "virtual" AWD capability before the
> duty-cycle of the ABS pump is exceeded.
Please don't speculate unless you are sure of this. This does not sound right. This type of AWD system is used by BMW X5, 3 series AWD, Mercedes ML, and all the 4-matic systems including S class. There have been extensive testing of X5 and ML in off road course, where they have to negotiate difficult terrains for extensive period of time CONTINUOUSLY with no apparent difficulties. I do not expect Sienna to be any different.
Not use why you use the term "virtual". It is a effective system, may not be the best, but definitely better than viscous coupling or some "part time" front biased system.