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BMW 1-Series



  • Yeppers 3 series compact. sort of the ti but in e46 trim.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,572
    Very nice!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118

    And this jacked from Wikipedia...

    "On 30 June 2007, BMW of North America officially announced the 1-Series Coupe as a 2008 model (code named E82) and that will be be the first 1 Series to go on sale in the USA. Two models are initially to be offered: the 128i and the 135i. The 128i will be powered by a 3.0 liter, 230 horsepower inline six cylinder engine. The 135i Coupe will be propelled by a 300 horsepower, twin turbocharged 3.0 liter inline six cylinder engine.[6] Both engines are shared with 3-series models 328i and 335i. Many auto enthusiasts have decried both the lack of a diesel option in the US, as well as the decision to offer only the coupe version.

    Like the three and five-door BMW 1 Series models, the E82 also features various BMW EfficientDynamics components to reduce fuel consumption (see below). The Coupé is 133 mm longer than the hatch, creating 20 litres of extra boot space. It is 220 mm shorter than 3-series Coupé (E92). 120d, 123d and 135i Coupés' announced unladen weights (EU) are 1450, 1495, and 1560 kg, respectively (corresponding to approx. 3285 lb curb weight for 135i - 90 lb reduction from 335i Coupé).

    The 1er Coupé can be seen as a successor to the legendary BMW New Class with its long bonnet, slim cabin and short rear. Apart from slight modifications, it uses the same nose design as the rest of the 1 Series so as to ensure some optical consistency within the range.

    It was just announced in July 2007 that BMW will be bringing the 128i and 135i Coupés to the United States in early 2008. It will be priced about $8,000 less than the 3 Series Coupé."
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    I don't buy that last quote as fact. Wikipedia, of course, is constructed by users. If such "fact" was known, I'm sure the bimmer boards would have caught on long ago. As it is, pricing is still in the speculation phase.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    $8000 less?

    Wiki got PUNK'D! :D
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    $8000 seems a bit optimistic to me too. I'm thinking $5000 or $6000 cheaper at the most.

    The 335i coupe starts at $41,000 - that would put the 135i at about $35,000.
  • punkr77punkr77 Posts: 183
    One of the recent car mags put the price of a "well equipped" 135i at $40k. Unfortunatly, about $10k too rich for my blood.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    They are guessing with meaningless numbers, but what does a fully loaded Mini Cooper S convertible cost?
    As long as you can get the 135 for $30K or less with few options, it's less important what it costs if you choose to put every available on option on it.
    I could see it getting around $40K with Sport/Premium/Nav plus automatic, metallic paint and some expensive dealer installed options like different rims than the one that come from the factory.

    It's pretty easy to pass $40K on a 328 coupe with minimal options.
  • 135 for 30k? No way in hell. try 35k unless you mean european delivery pricing. The 128 will start at 28-29k.

    135 at 35k...

    Sport package = $1000
    Premium Package = $2200
    Navi = $2100
    Cold Weather = $1000
    Comfort Access = $500
    Ipod/USB = $400
    Automatic = $1200
    Metallic Paint = $475
    Park Distance Control = $350
    Laser Cruise (assuming it's an option) = $2400
    Wheel upgrade to 19 inchers = $900
    Sat Radio = $500
    HD Radio = $350

    I can see breaking 40k as pretty easy. Heck just sport, navi, premium, paint and auto pushes the price to 43k.

    Flipside, a comparable 335i coupe with those features will run you about 49k
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    All the 1-series really "needs" is the sport package, and it's standard on the 135i. All the other stuff is just wasted money (IMO).

    I'm having a hard time putting 135i pricing in perspective with the 300 hp Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STi on the market. It's a BMW, so it's got to cost more than those $31K economy rockets, yet it can't get too close to the $41K 335i. Somewhere in between (around $36K) is my best guess.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    don't forget (as I believe has been discussed here before), those both have complicated AWD systems.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • That sounds great and it will be a great seller for them but where is BMW going to cut costs? Motor is the same, many of the same materials as the 3 series, only 150 pounds lighter than the 3 series.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "both have complicated AWD systems."

    More complex than RWD, yes, but not complicated.
  • Still you'll have to upsize the wheels or pay extra for the sports seats - like all BMWs I'd imagine. Regardless of their bad marketing (M, the 1 will be like other BMWs so the option sheet will be long.

    FWIW, I'd go the sport, comfort access route. Don't want the other stuff. And I'd do ED too.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    well, I don't know what you consider complicated personally, but the EVO and STi use systems that are quite different than those on their lesser brethren (and even very expensive vehicles with "AWD").

    Here is an excerpt from motortrend:
    For the sake of simplicity, the all-new 2008 Lancer Evolution's Super All-Wheel Control (S-AWC) system should be regarded as the creation of a divine being, for who among us can question the intent of a devilishly complicated system that utilizes multiple clutches and limited-slip differentials, well over a dozen varied sensors, and four-acronym-driven subsystems: Active Center Differential (ACD), Active Yaw Control (AYC), Active Stability Control (ASC), and Sport-Antilock Braking System (S-ABS)? I certainly cannot; even after sitting through a detailed Powerpoint presentation, complete with colored animation, I can barely explain how it works.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    With the exception of the extra differential and driveshafts (mechanical components that really don't require frequent maintenance), all of those acronyms that are mentioned in the above quote pretty much apply to the BMW too (except for the center diff, of course).

    Add all the additional electronic nannies & goodies found on a BMW (Comfort Access, Bluetooth, Brake-fade compensation, Driver memory settings, Adaptive xenon headlights, etc.), and you have a RWD car that's at least as complex, if not more so, than any Mitsubishi or Subaru.

    Not saying you're wrong, just providing a counterpoint...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    electronic nannies & goodies found on a BMW (Comfort Access, Bluetooth, Brake-fade compensation, Driver memory settings, Adaptive xenon headlights, etc.)

    but isn't all or most of that stuff optional? We were talking base priced 1-series vs EVO/STi, weren't we? I mean, I thought your point was that a 1-series, with an equally powerful engine but better materials and fit and finish, had to be more than an EVO/STi? In which case, I replied that the EVO/STi have AWD ... in other words, there are more differences than meet the eye that might make them closer in value.

    And, of course, there is much more to these AWD systems than slapping on an extra diff and driveshafts. How many limited slips does the mitsu have? it is 2 or 3, i believe. one in the center and one on each axle? Or at least one center and 1 rear. And those rely on electronic inputs, too, not just mechanical like the old-school LSDs.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    From your perspective, you're right. Differentials cost money, and certainly, the EVO and STi have a lot of value-adding content built into them. However, I don't believe that the actual cost of parts/components figures directly into the MSRP of a car today.

    You make a good point that I didn't originally consider, and you may end up being right (I hope so, because I would love to see the 1-series come in a few grand cheaper than I'm guessing).

    I still believe that the BMW 1-series is, on paper, a performance peer of the EVO and STi, but since BMW is a "luxury marque" here in the US, BMW will price it higher than the EVO and STi - regardless of the actual cost/value equation of the 1-series.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    yeah, you are probably right. And it will be a shame.

    Even if the 128i is $28k to start, I think it will be a hard sell. At $30k, I think it may be a loser. I could see buyers at $35k on the 135i. More than that and it is tough to justify.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's a long list of options but BMW should not be criticized for offering choice.

    If you walk in to a dealership and they don't have any models with less than $8000 in options, then you have a legitimate complaint...
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    The car makes less and less sense the closer in price it is to a 3-series. If it was way lighter than a 3-series and therefore performed much better, then it would make more sense, but it sounds like all you get is a smaller back seat and not much weight savings.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If you're choosing a coupe in the first place, how important is the back seat anyway?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Reasons to go with a smaller car are to have a lighter vehicle that can accelerate, brake, handle better with the same size engine as well as use less fuel. If it only weighs a little less than a 3-series, you won't see those benefits.
    Why make the already small 3-series coupe's back seat even smaller if there is no significant cost savings or performance benefit going with the smaller car?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The reality here is BMW just needs a car to slot beneath the 3 series now that it doesn't have any car under $30 grand.

    If the 1 series is too good it would cannibalize the 3 series.

    Besides, if light weight is the goal, why are we talking about massive 19" wheels, heated seats, Navi, etc?

    Who here is interested in a base model 128i with no options? That'll be the lightest one.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,638
    i would say still important, otherwise you'd choose a true sportscar, would you not?

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A lot of times the back seat is psychological. You can seat 4 "in a pinch". It drops insurance premiums.

    We drive alone 90% of the time. Plus, if you own a BMW you probably have more than one car, and the other car will likely be your more practical one (X5 perhaps?).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587

    Even a Caliber is 3248 lbs.

    BTW, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. Truth is I expected there to be more weight savings as well.

    Perhaps the days of light vehicles are just long gone?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You're right on the money - it's all about marketing a new entry level car to consumers now that the 3-series has "grown up."

    If the 1-series only weighs 100 lbs less than the 3-series, the choice will simply boil down to whether you want the added cabin space of the 3 vs. the lower price of the 1 - they will both be virtually indistinguishable from the driver seat.

    I also agree that, from a "fun to drive" point of view, a 128i with no options will be the one to get.
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