It's interesting to me that when Infiniti (Nissan) started on it's revival plan, they started putting out some great cars. In fact, they seemed to be lining up to take on BMW.
After checking them out, I thought "great cars, now if they'll only spend a bit more money on the interiors". Compared to the BMWs, the interiors were too plasticky. So, I was assuming that after 2-3 years they would upgrade the interiors to be more competitive.
Lucky for them, it seems that BMW is downgrading their interiors (again, X3, Z4 and new 5-series) so maybe Infiniti won't have to do anything to their interiors.
good thing I found this board. I was really interested in what the X3 could have been. I was interested in a good high quality small size suv for around 31-35K. From the last few posts that I read, it appears that the x3 is not it. thanks for the input. I will probably take a look at an x3, but will probably not be buying it. My only other luxury car experience was an rx300.
I am interested in the 2.5 because of price difference. Does any one know when dealers will be getting a 2.5 for test drives? Is Feb. 1 still the release date? if so are they only going to have 3.0's at first or will both be available?
Any thoughts on whether dealers will be getting MSRP on the X3? Due to marginal reviews, will we see a price break on day 1 or will it take 6-12 months before we see discounts off of MSRP?
I've read all the prior posts and honestly believe most of them are way too critical of what is really a great vehicle. I've been driving a Honda CR-V for the past 5 years. The X3 test drive I took felt great. Very sporty. A friend who owns a BMW Z3 two seat sportscar also test drove the X3 and he thought it handled fantastic. The interior materials may not be too fancy, but they seem quite acceptable given the price of this vehicle. The 2.5 with plenty of options prices out at 35K. For that price, I am more than happy to accept good plastic in lieu of expensive plastic. And the panorama sunroof is out of this world.
The X3 will be removed from our "Futures" list next week, so watch for this discussion to move to the SUVs board.
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The X3's dashboard, specifically the "crackerjack speedometer and RPM meter" look identical to those in the Z4 sports car. I don't hear people saying the $40K and up Z4 "looks cheap". The Z4 may look weird, but the street says it's a very well built and designed car. If the X3 shares components with the Z4...I think that reflects well on BMW, not poorly.
I am also waiting to test drive the 2.5 and my salesman told me it will come in January based on their order status.
I went to BMWUSA to configure the 2.5 and it comes out to be 40K MSRP (with premium package and auto) and a few other accessories. The brochure says that 0-60 on 2.5 is a disappointing 9.3 seconds. I think 4000 pounds SAV is the reason. So, what's there to test drive? really..
As I mentioned in this forum When I tested the 3.0 I didn't feel a lot of rough ride because I kind of get used to my RAV4 but the interior materials is a disappointment for a 43K+ vehicle compared to my RAV4 which has hard plastics and all, but costs less than 20K when I bought it.
The latest Car and Driver has a review on the X3 3.0 and is very critical about the X3 (they usually are very objective). All four reviewers, including the counterpoints reviewers, have negative ratings on the X3. One calls it silly and the other calls it a failure by BMW, stay with X5, etc. They also reviewed the 5-Series with negative ratings on the design and what else, the iDrive. BMW has some more work to do if they want me to continue buy their cars.
"the iDrive. BMW has some more work to do if they want me to continue buy their cars."
I love the new looks of the E60 and the 7 series, but have not yet test drive the e60. For me idrive will never be a deal clincher or a deal breaker.
The X3 may well be an answer to a need if these winters seem to continue. Bye bye RWD. I would like to see valvetronic technology incorporated into the 3L and 2.5L engines.
I like many of you, were very disappointed when I tested the X3. I REALLY wanted a great experience...I haven't had a BMW since 1987 and was looking for ANY reason to buy one. But, unless they do a lot of work on this vehicle before the production release in Jaunuary, I'll be waiting for the new MB ML to hit the market in 04. When I went from the X3 that I had just test drove to the X5 in the showroom, my original impressions of the X5 came back. The seats were very comfortable, the interior was very BMW, and I felt like I was in a luxury SUV. 180 degrees from what I experienced in the X3 - I'll PASS.
ok I guess I will have to be the dissenter I test drove the 3.0i x3 nonsport and thought it was awsome. The dealer directed me to a road that had a couple of nearly perpendicular curves and the x3 hit those at with no problem. Acceleration was great, even with 3 people in the car. Without sport suspension It drove like a regular luxury car. My only regret out of the whole test drive was that it wasn't a stick. Interior wise I thought it was decent, it wasn't as luxurious as a Lexus but most of the plastics was soft touch and those that weren't were at least high quality. Everything felt solid and durable like an SUV should be. Ex. the center console's lid opened and shut like a tank's. everything else felt high quality from the ceiling grips to the interior rug
I guess I don't quite understand everyone gripes. For an SUV this thing corners better than most cars. I guess if you compared it directly to a 3-series it would lose but then that is a car not an SUV! I remember Car & Driver had the same problems with the sport suspension X5 but even they had to come to terms with it being the best driving SUV. The X3 will do the same as a smaller cheaper version of the x5
Oh yeah by the way I did the test drive in typical Seattle conditions. Wet, yet I didn't feel any slippage
let me tell you why....one of 2 suvs with a manual (with clutch) the other one weights 600 lbs more, and gets worse gas mileage, and drives like a tank (albeit luxurious)...that's the x5. Incredible glass roof, great leather colors...fun, safety, reasonable mileage. feels smaller, good room
if you look at my review, I didn't complain about the ride. I just thought it was underpowered and had a cheap interior for the price being charged.
also, if you look at reviews of the z4, people are complaining about the cheap interior there as well.
my opinion (and it seems to be shared by a lot of people) is that the car feels a little cheap for what you are paying. i'd gladly pay the $42 or $43k if it had an interior as decent as the 2004 3-series. when i pay that much for a car, i don't want to feel like i'm on the inside of a honda civic dx.
as it is, i feel like i'm paying for the engine, the ride and the BMW badge with a cheap interior thrown in as a gratuity.
Am curious about driver comfort- legroom, seat length etc. Have an Audi a4 avant that I love except I'm a bit claustrophobic with the transmission tunnel against my leg. I am 6feet, 215 #. Is the x3 any bigger than the 3 series coupes/sedans? Looks like the 3.0 with 6 speed would be a fun outfit for the bad gravel I travel, and marginally economical to run at 90 on our (mostly) patrolman-free roads in Montana. One strong consideration would be that the closest dealer is either Denver or Salt Lake- at least twice as far as the Mercedes dealer in Missoula for our ML (250 miles).
It's pretty interesting that with an exception of a few reviews, you all are pretty much consistent with what I saw last week.
I had been waiting for this puppy for a while and really, really wanted to like the car. I thought the car looked great in all the pictures I had seen and it looked as good in person. Nice size, shape and very attractive. When you get inside though my impression was not the same. The car has a very cheap feel to it for a $40+ K BMW (this was a 3.0 model with premium package). The dash was not impressive at all and very plasticy. The car drives and handles well and is responsive but this being my first BMW I expected a bit more pull. I test drove the X5 3.0 just to feel the difference and only then I did notice a bit of a difference. But for 20% lighter car I expected more. The space inside the car is very good. Plenty of leg room in the front and the back and much more cargo space than the X5. All in all not a bad car. But when you pay close to $45K for a car you expect a bit more. Try opening the center console and you'll know what I mean (very, very mechanical, tank like) Now I'm not sure. I wish they'd done a better job with the interior.
Just about every magazine, except Bimmer, hates X3. Here's a sample: Automobile (hay wagon), C&D (guillotine), evo (unacceptable). But I'm sure Bimmer is the most impartial of the bunch!
Just read the review. I'm not sure what he means by "The same cool, crisp lines are there". Not a single mention of the excessive use of cheap looking plastics and net pockets. The one I saw had light gray interior with aluminum finishes which I suspect made the interior look worse. The picture in this review looks much better. This car is not priced $20K range for 2.5 (more like $35K)and is topping at $43K not $33K. The difference between X5 3.0 and X3 3.0 is only a few thousands.
Also, unless I missed it, the article did not say anything about the best thing about the interior, the panorama moon roof! It is to die for.....
I too like the moonroof, but that does me no good when I'm driving - I can't look out the roof all the time.
Did see a 3.0 at my dealer on Saturday. Had the wood interior and PP. With the wood, it looks quite a bit better, IMO. But I'm sure the target market in general would prefer the aluminum trim.
He also said get the PP and not the SP. Too harsh a ride. This from a guy who LOVES SP in every BMW.
"He also said get the PP and not the SP. Too harsh a ride. This from a guy who LOVES SP in every BMW. "
And from Edmunds review, "Body roll is so well contained that I initially thought the test vehicle was equipped with BMW's optional sport suspension. In reality, the tester was the base 3.0 model with standard suspension, 17-inch wheels and 235/55R17 radials."
Well, isn't it good to have sport ride without paying for the SP? I'm interested in seeing roadholding number for the non SP version. Unfortunately, with so many complaints, I'm afraid BMW may soften the suspension in the future.
I posted my disappointment earlier in this thread, but would like to add a comment or two. The Autoweek review' was not a review, it was a very glossed over impression review...no real track work or direct comparisons like the recent car and driver SUV shoot out. Which BTW, put the Tourgeg near the bottom after it came out on top in the first review! I guess I have to agree, that the X3 by itself is not a bad suv, but when you calculate in the price and expectations, it looses ground quickly. I was really hoping this would have ended my search for a luxury mid-size suv. You certainly don't get the same feeling when you sit in the X3 and then a X5. First year vehicles always have a lot of compromises. Funny how after a year or two all the stuff you wanted appears....maybe I'll just a year or so. NOTE: I see suagatek, the post below this one hit the nail on the head....first year get those over-anxious newbies who are thrilled to just drive a bimmer, and then once they have flushed them out, aim for the more discriminating with a better interior and more realistic option list. I was VERY dissappointed there was NO rear A/C vent and no sign of satellite radio.
"It's pretty interesting that with an exception of a few reviews, you all are pretty much consistent with what I saw last week."
But it's not surprising to me that the reviews have been consistent.
I, my family and friends have owned/leased many different models of BMWs so I've had the chance to drive a lot of them (e46 3-series, e39 5-series, test drove e60 5-series, test drove X3, X5, first generation Bangle 7 series).
You can pretty much take for granted that (on smooth roads at least), the most driveable car in the class will be a BMW. Nobody else, and I mean nobody, puts in the effort to tune the chassis, get 50-50 weight distribution, deliver power at each rev of the torque curve, time the transmission to shift smoothly at the appropriate points.
So it's not surprising that most people enjoyed the ride of the BMW.
You can also expect to pay a huge premium with a BMW so it's not surprising that people complained about the price.
The only question with BMW (especially with Bangle in charge of designs) is "How good will the car look (both exterior and interior)?"
Since the interior of the car is so damned cheap, it's not surprising that people complained about it, especially given the price of the X3. My opinion is that most people expect (and are resigned) to paying a big premium for BMW since it is, along with MB, the premier mass luxury brand. But when people pay such premiums, they don't expect to feel like they're sitting in the interior of a Yugo so it really turned them off.
I think if BMW had foregone the cheap plastics and used decent interior materials, they would have hit a grand slam. Look, the 3-series sells well even though it's too small for a lot of people. There must be tons of people willing to pay for a BMW (without a Yugo interior) that drives like the 3-series but has the space to seat 4 to 5 adults comfortably.
As for the people who are enthused about the X3 and have ignored the bad interior (saying, well it's not so bad), I fully understand why they feel that way since my wife (for whom I intended to purchase the X3) was exactly the same way.
The people who rushed to buy the X3 are like people who have gotten crack for the first time. Having gotten used to driving their Camrys, Altimas, etc. they just can't get over how well a BMW drives. My wife for example was totally enthused about the handling of the BMW, especially when she parallel parked this vehicle easily on her first try LOL (btw, this has never happened before).
It took 3 days of thinking about paying $43k and her sitting in $20k Ford Escapes and Hyundai Santa Fes with much superior interiors before she realized that she was the target market (first time BMW buyers willing to overpay for the engine and badge) BMW was trying to fleece.
My prediction: BMW will do well with the X3 in the first model year by fleecing the overeager BMW virgins, bomb the second year as all the fools will have been flushed out of the market, and do a "refresh" of the X3 in the third year with a nice interior and a price hike to get the more discriminating buyers.
saugatak & phastphil I'm not sure if I agree with the newbie concept. Newbies don't drop $40+ K on a car that doesn't feel right just because they want a BMW badge. My wife owns a MB and I own a Boxter S and I was looking at X3. When you intend to purchase a lux SUV you have certain expectations (hopefully!) Try sitting in an Acura MDX for about the same price and compare the interior. When I tried to open the center console I felt like I was in a Yugo (augh..) For $4k-$5K more you can get a more luxurious X5 3.0 ($40K vs. $45K, both equipped w/PP.) I think they just missed the boat on this one. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they had a Grand Slam opportunity. With a better interior and may be a little lower pricing they would've sold a boatload of this puppy. I know I would've bought one on the spot.
The lease of my 2001 330i is coming to and end . I've been shopping around to find a more practical replacement. The rear seat on the 330i doesn't even fold down. When I heard about the X3, I thought what perfect timing. Prior to test driving the X3, I drove the Outback and the Forester XT. The BMW dealer didn't have the 2.5 for test drive but if I remember the test drive from the 325i, I didn't think it was sufficient so I can only imagine what the extra weight will be like. The X3 looks really cheap; a big contrast to the 330i(with the sport package). Instead of falling in love with it, I was really disappointed. I reminded myself that BMW is all about the ride. I wasn't disappointed there. It handles great and plenty of power. Interior looks plain and I didn't like the door handle color. Sticker price was about $42K. Same day I test drove the Nissan Murano. Love the styling and it handles great. It can't corner like a BMW but it comes close and it's a blast to drive. With 245HP, it went up the hills with no problem. The AWD version is slightly lighter than the X3. Fuel economy is 20/24(better than the X3). The gas&brake pedals can move forward for a short person like me. I highly recommend it. Got it for around $33K fully loaded. As for the X3, I have this feeling BMW will fix the bumper and this year model will depreciate.
" guess I have to agree, that the X3 by itself is not a bad suv, but when you calculate in the price and expectations, it looses ground quickly"
It's all in your definition of value. I personally think BMW hit the nail on the head with this one. I really like it, exterior and interior. However, the five poster that have made up 90% of the posts on this forum could debate until the cows come home on how BMW either hit or missed the mark and whether you calculate the worthiness of a vehicle only by hp/$$.
As long as BMW is true to itself with the X3, the market, not us, will determine how this goes.
I am very interested in this vehicle as my next acquisition, yes I'd like an M3 also, but the I'm not putting it on blocks during the winter. I like the concept of the xDrive, and the fuel economy should be very reasonable.
Those who buy a BMW because it's a BMW, buy one because of the exclusivity of the BMW experience as quote by Purves, CEO of BMW NA in the latest issue of Bimmer.
I test drove the 3.0 X3 the week after Thanksgiving and my impressions were as follows: The interior, which was all gray plastic with that awful plastic aluminum trim, looked very cheap. Worse, the plastic was not the soft touch plastic I'm used to in my Passat GLX 4Motion wagon or my 325Cic. I totally disagreed with Car & Driver's impressions on the ride though. I thought the non sport package equipped version I drove rode and HANDLED great with lots of power on hand. I had a blast driving in and out of traffic with it. The huge moonroof was great as well. I could imagine it in the summertime!
With those comments in mind and despite the interior, I just loved the way the X3's exterior looked and the way it handled and drove, plus it is just as roomy as my Passat wagon with only marginally less cargo room behind the seats. But for 44K the way I would want a 3.0 equipped and that questionable interior I thinking before ordering. I have seen pictures with the interior with either the beige or terracota leather and wood trim and it does look much better.
I also went to the Audi dealership and test drove an 04 allroad which has a lovely, class leading interior with plenty of room. It also has a 2.7 turbo and I do detect the turbo and transmission lag times and it did not seem to handle as well as the X3. Not that is handled poorly just not as well. The MSRP was around $46K and was listed to be sold at $44K plus the dealer said December sales were very slow and they would go below this figure.
So now my situation is, do I buy the X3 or the allroad. I'd appreciate some feedback from automotive lovers such as yourselves. Thanks.
<Flame suit on> Why has not one of you compared the X3 to the FX35. They are about the same price But the FX has better performance and to me better looks. Even though the FX is often bashed for it's ride quality with the 20's by reading car and driver it is more compliant than the X3 with 18's. I think this will be a dud and not be around long unless the increase the price of the X5 to Cayenne Territory with the redesign.
clpurnel. I plan to do just that next week to test drive the FX35, my second choice, after the X3 test drive and saw the disappointing cheap interior. I did some pricing comparison and with my corporate discount on FX35, I can get the FX35 with compatible options for $35.7K versus $43K-$44K on X3. I doublt the BMW dealer will discount anything from MSRP.
"Why has not one of you compared the X3 to the FX35"
I am interested in the xdrive because of the ability send most of the torque to any one wheel, should slippage occur. This is not my understanding of the way the AWD of the FX35 works. I won't even comment on the gas mileage because somehow that seems to be lost when talking about performance.
I'm planning to take an X3 for a spin in the next couple weeks. The lease on my 01 X5 3.0 will be up in a few months and I'm trying to decide whether to purchase it at the end of the lease or let it go. My X5 3.0 has been perfect, nothing has gone wrong with it in 3 years, not a single warranty issue - that's why I'm leaning toward buying it. We also have an Audi A6 Avant Quattro (wagon) - what the AllRoad is based on - it's a great car too, totally satisfied with it. I doubt you'd be disappointed with the Audi.
It's unfortunate that BMW has cheapened the interior of the X3, considering how closely it's priced to the X5, I don't understand why. There are a lot of things I don't understand about BMW anymore - they are losing their loyal customer base. The X5's interior was one if it's selling points when I leased it back in 01.
If I decide to turn in the X5, the #1 replacement candidate so far is the VW Touareg - you owe it to yourself to add it to your compare list.
Not sure what the mileage on the X3 is but my fx gets about 17mpg city and 21-22 highway if I keep to anywhere near sane speeds. that is only 1-2 mpg less than my sedan was (chrysler 300M). The attessa awd in the FX is more similar to the original awd in the X5. It has a fixed torque split 25/75 onlaunch then goes to rwd until slippage occurs and then sends power to the front wheels. Th Idrive sounds more like Audi's quattro or the AWD system in the new vw (- low range). However It is 65 and sunny where I live so AWD systems and differences didn't come into play much my FX is actually RWD.
"However It is 65 and sunny where I live so AWD systems and differences didn't come into play much my FX is actually RWD."
Point well taken. I couldn't even get out of the driveway last week, because I had been plowed in.
However to your point, maybe someone should start an FX35 vs X3 thread. There certainly is a lot of information on both vehicles and I think it would be an interesting comparision.
"Those who buy a BMW because it's a BMW, buy one because of the exclusivity of the BMW experience as quote by Purves, CEO of BMW NA in the latest issue of Bimmer."
Um . . . I'm not sure I understand what this means kdshapiro? Are we all supposed to be BMW cheerleaders (as you are) b/c the CEO of BMW (really not the most objective source) says that BMW is so exclusive?
Who cares what the CEO of BMW has to say in praise of his own cars? I'd rather have objective opinions any day.
You are about the only one on this board who's said he likes the interior of the X3. Everyone else has said they either hate it (like 90% of the people) or are willing to put up with it.
What's noteworthy to me is that this car has been ripped by many reviewers in many different car mags, and any car enthusiast knows that most car mags worship at the temple of BMW.
There's a lot to like about the X3, but I just can't sit inside a Yugo interior during rush hour traffic no matter how nicely the car drives.
It is more like an g35 on stilts. great acceleration and decent handling but absolutely no utility. I have to say the interior is nice compared to the g35.
"Who cares what the CEO of BMW has to say in praise of his own cars? I'd rather have objective opinions any day."
saugatek - I'm not the only one who likes the interior, read some of the posts. Yes it is different than the 3 series. In general I'm not a big fan of any interiors with any metal whatsoever. But having said that I buy what I like and not what the mags or other folks tell me I should like. I do have one vehicle with a brushed interior, but I got that vehicle because of other overriding features, which meant more to me than the metal in the interior.
The interior is tastefully done with BMW ergonomics. I'm not going to nitpick things, because there are those things we can nitpick on every single vehicle.
So do I wish they had real wood, a Mark Levinson stereo and a DVD entertainment system as standard. Absolutely. But I would expect the car to drive like a BMW. If it doesn't drive like a Bimmer, even with real wood, an ML stereo and a DVD system, the thing will be a flop. In addition, I really like the concept of the xDrive. More than AWD, and a little short of full time 4WD. The only thing you can't do is lock the center diff.
The point of Purves remark, and his remarks are exactly what I think. People don't buy BMW because of some "so called prestige factor", they buy it because every BMW brand vehicle represents a certain level of performance and driveability. Certain people like to judge the motives behind any purcahse, it is not up to me to judge this. Only to note that at least I believe when people say they want a BMW, there is a recognition of getting more than an appliance, like a Yugo.
jjman, when I test drove the X3, I pressed down hard on the plastic dash (something I always do to feel how tight the interior components were put together). The X3 plastic dash has sharp little bumps on it. After pulling my hand back, I noticed a little blood coming out of a prick in my finger.
Now I can't honestly say I've sat in a Yugo interior recently. But I can honestly say that I have never pricked my finger on any dash except for the X3.
Your point seems to be that my calling the X3's interior a Yugo interior is excessive. But what else am I supposed to compare it too? The X3 interior is cheaper than a Nissan Altima, Ford Escape, Hyundai Santa Fe. I'd be doing a disservice to those fine cars if I compared them to the X3 interior.
Why don't you go out on a limb and find a cheap car with an interior comparable to the X3, and then we can debate the Yugo comparison.
I'd agree that nothing drives like a BMW (I've said that before) and that the ergonomic layout of the interior is nice.
I guess you don't care about the awful quality of the interior materials, but I'm going to hold you to that if I see you criticizing the interior materials on another non-BMW car
"After pulling my hand back, I noticed a little blood coming out of a prick in my finger."
Well it's better than bump I got on my head trying to get out of the backseat of an Acura RL, which I found very difficult to egress.
saugatak - really not trying to be obtuse, but trying to look at the broader picture. I agree in general BMW interiors, could be more Lexus like. But having said that, they are what they are. However, in a 40K+ car, I do expect a certain level of creature comforts. It's up to the individual to assess the car and see if it meets their needs.
you had to take another cheapshot at the RL, didn't you?
offtopic, but I say we should reserve judgment on the RL until Honda has a chance to spruce it up for the 2005 model year. Honda just doesn't have the resources to do massive overhauls of its entire product line so there will always be some dead horses for people to kick in its lineup.
kd, you should be rooting for Honda (as I am). Now that they've max'ed out on FWD with the current TSX and TL, hopefully they'll make great AWD and RWD cars at some point and really challenge BMW.
Until the Japanese get the right combo of sport and luxury, we're all stuck with "Damn, shall I fork over that $43k for that X3 with the Yugo interior."
Nissan/Infiniti looks like they're developing into BMW challengers. Never test driven the FX, but I agree with jjman that its utility is severely compromised by its avant-garde styling.
Also, I don't switch cars a lot. I get a car I like and then I try to drive it into the dirt, and while I like the FX styling now, I'm not sure how I'll feel about it 5 years from now.
"Also, I don't switch cars a lot. I get a car I like and then I try to drive it into the dirt, and while I like the FX styling now, I'm not sure how I'll feel about it 5 years from now."
One of the things about the new breed of SAVs, SUVs, XUVs, etc, is that a styling compromise has got to be made. Porsche makes the most handsome cars on the planet, the 90K Cayenne is just plain ugly. Yes, it can go 160 and get to 60 in 5 secs, but it is still ugly. Seems like all of the performance oriented SAVs are ugly, not one do I really like. But with the last couple of years of snow and the way this winter is starting off, I'm seriously thinking about going the SAV route. Two months ago this was not the case.
"It is more like an g35 on stilts. great acceleration and decent handling but absolutely no utility."
How much utility do you need? FX maximum cargo capacity with rear seats folded is 65 cubic feet; the X5's is only 54 (20% more in the FX). Luggage capacity (rear seats up) in the FX is 27.4; the X5's is just 16.1 (70% more in the FX). Also, all interior measurements for room in the front seats are greater in the FX as well. Granted, there are many SUV's/SAV's with greater room than the FX, but for our family of three it's all the utility we need. Now if you are talking off-road capability, then I would grant you that the X5 wins. Not sure about the X3, but I would expect that it's similar to the FX in that it's not intended to go offroad.
"The X3 interior is cheaper than a Nissan Altima, Ford Escape, Hyundai Santa Fe. I'd be doing a disservice to those fine cars if I compared them to the X3 interior."
THAT comparison is excessively ridiculous. Neither "fine" nor "comparable"!!!
I'll give you that the X3 interior is of less quality than other higher end BMW's. But, it is very similar to the Z4, which I admire for it's modern look and thoughtful layout.
Also, the interior quality (or perceived quality) improves dramatically with the wood trim, black leather, and navigation, all of which I included in my pre-order over the weekend.
Like the size and utility, like the interior with all the goodies, like the power. Love the handling, cornering, feel, and LOVE the exterior styling (major reason for purchase).
Comments
After checking them out, I thought "great cars, now if they'll only spend a bit more money on the interiors". Compared to the BMWs, the interiors were too plasticky. So, I was assuming that after 2-3 years they would upgrade the interiors to be more competitive.
Lucky for them, it seems that BMW is downgrading their interiors (again, X3, Z4 and new 5-series) so maybe Infiniti won't have to do anything to their interiors.
Sorry, just a late night rant....
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I went to BMWUSA to configure the 2.5 and it comes out to be 40K MSRP (with premium package and auto) and a few other accessories. The brochure says that 0-60 on 2.5 is a disappointing 9.3 seconds.
I think 4000 pounds SAV is the reason. So, what's there to test drive? really..
As I mentioned in this forum When I tested the 3.0 I didn't feel a lot of rough ride because I kind of get used to my RAV4 but the interior materials is a disappointment for a 43K+ vehicle compared to my RAV4 which has hard plastics and all, but costs less than 20K when I bought it.
The latest Car and Driver has a review on the X3 3.0 and is very critical about the X3 (they usually are very objective). All four reviewers, including the counterpoints reviewers, have negative ratings on the X3. One calls it silly and the other calls it a failure by BMW, stay with X5, etc. They also reviewed the 5-Series with negative ratings on the design and what else, the iDrive. BMW has some more work to do if they want me to continue buy their cars.
I love the new looks of the E60 and the 7 series, but have not yet test drive the e60. For me idrive will never be a deal clincher or a deal breaker.
The X3 may well be an answer to a need if these winters seem to continue. Bye bye RWD. I would like to see valvetronic technology incorporated into the 3L and 2.5L engines.
When I went from the X3 that I had just test drove to the X5 in the showroom, my original impressions of the X5 came back. The seats were very comfortable, the interior was very BMW, and I felt like I was in a luxury SUV. 180 degrees from what I experienced in the X3 - I'll PASS.
I test drove the 3.0i x3 nonsport and thought it was awsome. The dealer directed me to a road that had a couple of nearly perpendicular curves and the x3 hit those at with no problem. Acceleration was great, even with 3 people in the car. Without sport suspension It drove like a regular luxury car. My only regret out of the whole test drive was that it wasn't a stick.
Interior wise I thought it was decent, it wasn't as luxurious as a Lexus but most of the plastics was soft touch and those that weren't were at least high quality. Everything felt solid and durable like an SUV should be. Ex. the center console's lid opened and shut like a tank's. everything else felt high quality from the ceiling grips to the interior rug
I guess I don't quite understand everyone gripes. For an SUV this thing corners better than most cars. I guess if you compared it directly to a 3-series it would lose but then that is a car not an SUV! I remember Car & Driver had the same problems with the sport suspension X5 but even they had to come to terms with it being the best driving SUV. The X3 will do the same as a smaller cheaper version of the x5
Oh yeah by the way I did the test drive in typical Seattle conditions. Wet, yet I didn't feel any slippage
also, if you look at reviews of the z4, people are complaining about the cheap interior there as well.
my opinion (and it seems to be shared by a lot of people) is that the car feels a little cheap for what you are paying. i'd gladly pay the $42 or $43k if it had an interior as decent as the 2004 3-series. when i pay that much for a car, i don't want to feel like i'm on the inside of a honda civic dx.
as it is, i feel like i'm paying for the engine, the ride and the BMW badge with a cheap interior thrown in as a gratuity.
I had been waiting for this puppy for a while and really, really wanted to like the car. I thought the car looked great in all the pictures I had seen and it looked as good in person. Nice size, shape and very attractive. When you get inside though my impression was not the same. The car has a very cheap feel to it for a $40+ K BMW (this was a 3.0 model with premium package). The dash was not impressive at all and very plasticy. The car drives and handles well and is responsive but this being my first BMW I expected a bit more pull. I test drove the X5 3.0 just to feel the difference and only then I did notice a bit of a difference. But for 20% lighter car I expected more. The space inside the car is very good. Plenty of leg room in the front and the back and much more cargo space than the X5. All in all not a bad car. But when you pay close to $45K for a car you expect a bit more. Try opening the center console and you'll know what I mean (very, very mechanical, tank like) Now I'm not sure. I wish they'd done a better job with the interior.
Actually probably is. They dinged the X3 in the dept. of rideability off the road. Okay, so the X3 isn't an off-trail vehicle. I can live with that.
I find the interior to be as satisfactory as my 3-series, but I haven't test driven one yet. We'll see how the buying public perceives of it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Also, unless I missed it, the article did not say anything about the best thing about the interior, the panorama moon roof! It is to die for.....
Did see a 3.0 at my dealer on Saturday. Had the wood interior and PP. With the wood, it looks quite a bit better, IMO. But I'm sure the target market in general would prefer the aluminum trim.
He also said get the PP and not the SP. Too harsh a ride. This from a guy who LOVES SP in every BMW.
-Paul
And from Edmunds review,
"Body roll is so well contained that I initially thought the test vehicle was equipped with BMW's optional sport suspension. In reality, the tester was the base 3.0 model with standard suspension, 17-inch wheels and 235/55R17 radials."
Well, isn't it good to have sport ride without paying for the SP? I'm interested in seeing roadholding number for the non SP version. Unfortunately, with so many complaints, I'm afraid BMW may soften the suspension in the future.
I guess I have to agree, that the X3 by itself is not a bad suv, but when you calculate in the price and expectations, it looses ground quickly. I was really hoping this would have ended my search for a luxury mid-size suv. You certainly don't get the same feeling when you sit in the X3 and then a X5. First year vehicles always have a lot of compromises. Funny how after a year or two all the stuff you wanted appears....maybe I'll just a year or so.
NOTE: I see suagatek, the post below this one hit the nail on the head....first year get those over-anxious newbies who are thrilled to just drive a bimmer, and then once they have flushed them out, aim for the more discriminating with a better interior and more realistic option list. I was VERY dissappointed there was NO rear A/C vent and no sign of satellite radio.
But it's not surprising to me that the reviews have been consistent.
I, my family and friends have owned/leased many different models of BMWs so I've had the chance to drive a lot of them (e46 3-series, e39 5-series, test drove e60 5-series, test drove X3, X5, first generation Bangle 7 series).
You can pretty much take for granted that (on smooth roads at least), the most driveable car in the class will be a BMW. Nobody else, and I mean nobody, puts in the effort to tune the chassis, get 50-50 weight distribution, deliver power at each rev of the torque curve, time the transmission to shift smoothly at the appropriate points.
So it's not surprising that most people enjoyed the ride of the BMW.
You can also expect to pay a huge premium with a BMW so it's not surprising that people complained about the price.
The only question with BMW (especially with Bangle in charge of designs) is "How good will the car look (both exterior and interior)?"
Since the interior of the car is so damned cheap, it's not surprising that people complained about it, especially given the price of the X3. My opinion is that most people expect (and are resigned) to paying a big premium for BMW since it is, along with MB, the premier mass luxury brand. But when people pay such premiums, they don't expect to feel like they're sitting in the interior of a Yugo so it really turned them off.
I think if BMW had foregone the cheap plastics and used decent interior materials, they would have hit a grand slam. Look, the 3-series sells well even though it's too small for a lot of people. There must be tons of people willing to pay for a BMW (without a Yugo interior) that drives like the 3-series but has the space to seat 4 to 5 adults comfortably.
As for the people who are enthused about the X3 and have ignored the bad interior (saying, well it's not so bad), I fully understand why they feel that way since my wife (for whom I intended to purchase the X3) was exactly the same way.
The people who rushed to buy the X3 are like people who have gotten crack for the first time. Having gotten used to driving their Camrys, Altimas, etc. they just can't get over how well a BMW drives. My wife for example was totally enthused about the handling of the BMW, especially when she parallel parked this vehicle easily on her first try LOL (btw, this has never happened before).
It took 3 days of thinking about paying $43k and her sitting in $20k Ford Escapes and Hyundai Santa Fes with much superior interiors before she realized that she was the target market (first time BMW buyers willing to overpay for the engine and badge) BMW was trying to fleece.
My prediction: BMW will do well with the X3 in the first model year by fleecing the overeager BMW virgins, bomb the second year as all the fools will have been flushed out of the market, and do a "refresh" of the X3 in the third year with a nice interior and a price hike to get the more discriminating buyers.
I'm not sure if I agree with the newbie concept. Newbies don't drop $40+ K on a car that doesn't feel right just because they want a BMW badge. My wife owns a MB and I own a Boxter S and I was looking at X3. When you intend to purchase a lux SUV you have certain expectations (hopefully!) Try sitting in an Acura MDX for about the same price and compare the interior. When I tried to open the center console I felt like I was in a Yugo (augh..) For $4k-$5K more you can get a more luxurious X5 3.0 ($40K vs. $45K, both equipped w/PP.)
I think they just missed the boat on this one. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they had a Grand Slam opportunity. With a better interior and may be a little lower pricing they would've sold a boatload of this puppy. I know I would've bought one on the spot.
signed, disappointed (and annoyed)
It's all in your definition of value. I personally think BMW hit the nail on the head with this one. I really like it, exterior and interior. However, the five poster that have made up 90% of the posts on this forum could debate until the cows come home on how BMW either hit or missed the mark and whether you calculate the worthiness of a vehicle only by hp/$$.
As long as BMW is true to itself with the X3, the market, not us, will determine how this goes.
I am very interested in this vehicle as my next acquisition, yes I'd like an M3 also, but the I'm not putting it on blocks during the winter. I like the concept of the xDrive, and the fuel economy should be very reasonable.
Those who buy a BMW because it's a BMW, buy one because of the exclusivity of the BMW experience as quote by Purves, CEO of BMW NA in the latest issue of Bimmer.
With those comments in mind and despite the interior, I just loved the way the X3's exterior looked and the way it handled and drove, plus it is just as roomy as my Passat wagon with only marginally less cargo room behind the seats. But for 44K the way I would want a 3.0 equipped and that questionable interior I thinking before ordering. I have seen pictures with the interior with either the beige or terracota leather and wood trim and it does look much better.
I also went to the Audi dealership and test drove an 04 allroad which has a lovely, class leading interior with plenty of room. It also has a 2.7 turbo and I do detect the turbo and transmission lag times and it did not seem to handle as well as the X3. Not that is handled poorly just not as well. The MSRP was around $46K and was listed to be sold at $44K plus the dealer said December sales were very slow and they would go below this figure.
So now my situation is, do I buy the X3 or the allroad. I'd appreciate some feedback from automotive lovers such as yourselves. Thanks.
Why has not one of you compared the X3 to the FX35. They are about the same price But the FX has better performance and to me better looks. Even though the FX is often bashed for it's ride quality with the 20's by reading car and driver it is more compliant than the X3 with 18's. I think this will be a dud and not be around long unless the increase the price of the X5 to Cayenne Territory with the redesign.
I am interested in the xdrive because of the ability send most of the torque to any one wheel, should slippage occur. This is not my understanding of the way the AWD of the FX35 works. I won't even comment on the gas mileage because somehow that seems to be lost when talking about performance.
It's unfortunate that BMW has cheapened the interior of the X3, considering how closely it's priced to the X5, I don't understand why. There are a lot of things I don't understand about BMW anymore - they are losing their loyal customer base. The X5's interior was one if it's selling points when I leased it back in 01.
If I decide to turn in the X5, the #1 replacement candidate so far is the VW Touareg - you owe it to yourself to add it to your compare list.
Point well taken. I couldn't even get out of the driveway last week, because I had been plowed in.
However to your point, maybe someone should start an FX35 vs X3 thread. There certainly is a lot of information on both vehicles and I think it would be an interesting comparision.
Um . . . I'm not sure I understand what this means kdshapiro? Are we all supposed to be BMW cheerleaders (as you are) b/c the CEO of BMW (really not the most objective source) says that BMW is so exclusive?
Who cares what the CEO of BMW has to say in praise of his own cars? I'd rather have objective opinions any day.
You are about the only one on this board who's said he likes the interior of the X3. Everyone else has said they either hate it (like 90% of the people) or are willing to put up with it.
What's noteworthy to me is that this car has been ripped by many reviewers in many different car mags, and any car enthusiast knows that most car mags worship at the temple of BMW.
There's a lot to like about the X3, but I just can't sit inside a Yugo interior during rush hour traffic no matter how nicely the car drives.
saugatek - I'm not the only one who likes the interior, read some of the posts. Yes it is different than the 3 series. In general I'm not a big fan of any interiors with any metal whatsoever. But having said that I buy what I like and not what the mags or other folks tell me I should like. I do have one vehicle with a brushed interior, but I got that vehicle because of other overriding features, which meant more to me than the metal in the interior.
The interior is tastefully done with BMW ergonomics. I'm not going to nitpick things, because there are those things we can nitpick on every single vehicle.
So do I wish they had real wood, a Mark Levinson stereo and a DVD entertainment system as standard. Absolutely. But I would expect the car to drive like a BMW. If it doesn't drive like a Bimmer, even with real wood, an ML stereo and a DVD system, the thing will be a flop. In addition, I really like the concept of the xDrive. More than AWD, and a little short of full time 4WD. The only thing you can't do is lock the center diff.
The point of Purves remark, and his remarks are exactly what I think. People don't buy BMW because of some "so called prestige factor", they buy it because every BMW brand vehicle represents a certain level of performance and driveability. Certain people like to judge the motives behind any purcahse, it is not up to me to judge this. Only to note that at least I believe when people say they want a BMW, there is a recognition of getting more than an appliance, like a Yugo.
Now I can't honestly say I've sat in a Yugo interior recently. But I can honestly say that I have never pricked my finger on any dash except for the X3.
Your point seems to be that my calling the X3's interior a Yugo interior is excessive. But what else am I supposed to compare it too? The X3 interior is cheaper than a Nissan Altima, Ford Escape, Hyundai Santa Fe. I'd be doing a disservice to those fine cars if I compared them to the X3 interior.
Why don't you go out on a limb and find a cheap car with an interior comparable to the X3, and then we can debate the Yugo comparison.
I'd agree that nothing drives like a BMW (I've said that before) and that the ergonomic layout of the interior is nice.
I guess you don't care about the awful quality of the interior materials, but I'm going to hold you to that if I see you criticizing the interior materials on another non-BMW car
Well it's better than bump I got on my head trying to get out of the backseat of an Acura RL, which I found very difficult to egress.
saugatak - really not trying to be obtuse, but trying to look at the broader picture. I agree in general BMW interiors, could be more Lexus like. But having said that, they are what they are. However, in a 40K+ car, I do expect a certain level of creature comforts. It's up to the individual to assess the car and see if it meets their needs.
offtopic, but I say we should reserve judgment on the RL until Honda has a chance to spruce it up for the 2005 model year. Honda just doesn't have the resources to do massive overhauls of its entire product line so there will always be some dead horses for people to kick in its lineup.
kd, you should be rooting for Honda (as I am). Now that they've max'ed out on FWD with the current TSX and TL, hopefully they'll make great AWD and RWD cars at some point and really challenge BMW.
Until the Japanese get the right combo of sport and luxury, we're all stuck with "Damn, shall I fork over that $43k for that X3 with the Yugo interior."
Nissan/Infiniti looks like they're developing into BMW challengers. Never test driven the FX, but I agree with jjman that its utility is severely compromised by its avant-garde styling.
Also, I don't switch cars a lot. I get a car I like and then I try to drive it into the dirt, and while I like the FX styling now, I'm not sure how I'll feel about it 5 years from now.
One of the things about the new breed of SAVs, SUVs, XUVs, etc, is that a styling compromise has got to be made. Porsche makes the most handsome cars on the planet, the 90K Cayenne is just plain ugly. Yes, it can go 160 and get to 60 in 5 secs, but it is still ugly. Seems like all of the performance oriented SAVs are ugly, not one do I really like. But with the last couple of years of snow and the way this winter is starting off, I'm seriously thinking about going the SAV route. Two months ago this was not the case.
How much utility do you need? FX maximum cargo capacity with rear seats folded is 65 cubic feet; the X5's is only 54 (20% more in the FX). Luggage capacity (rear seats up) in the FX is 27.4; the X5's is just 16.1 (70% more in the FX). Also, all interior measurements for room in the front seats are greater in the FX as well. Granted, there are many SUV's/SAV's with greater room than the FX, but for our family of three it's all the utility we need. Now if you are talking off-road capability, then I would grant you that the X5 wins. Not sure about the X3, but I would expect that it's similar to the FX in that it's not intended to go offroad.
THAT comparison is excessively ridiculous. Neither "fine" nor "comparable"!!!
I'll give you that the X3 interior is of less quality than other higher end BMW's. But, it is very similar to the Z4, which I admire for it's modern look and thoughtful layout.
Also, the interior quality (or perceived quality) improves dramatically with the wood trim, black leather, and navigation, all of which I included in my pre-order over the weekend.
Like the size and utility, like the interior with all the goodies, like the power. Love the handling, cornering, feel, and LOVE the exterior styling (major reason for purchase).
P.S.--Sirius IS an option. Got that too:)