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  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I usually don't keep my cars for very long. 3 years avg, but I get the itch after about 18 months. As for the X3, if I get one, I figure I would either go full-course meal, or go econo-class, get a plain one just to get the x-drive. So I figure, if I go plain-jane, why even bother with leather. To be honest, the leatherette in the Mini doesn't look half bad.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,087
    I have a 2.5 2004 X3 with leatherette seats and I have never felt sorry or disappointed. I think if you were going to keep the car for a long time you would get your moneys worth from real leather. Since you are from Canada, the cost of a base X3 will be about the same as Mark's fully equipped model in the U.S.
    I really like my X3 and I don't think there is anything like it. But the new Consumers Reports guide says the X3 and X5 have just reached an average repair rate, while many Japanese models have above average ratings. It makes me wonder how long I will want to hold on to my X3 if it starts having big problems. The money for leather might be better spent on a Lexus that will be trouble free for a much longer time.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Problem is, I'd die of boredom if I was forced to drive any Toyota other than the MR2.
  • In one sentence, one succinct lay down of 18 words, you have said volumes. While I too want reliable cars, ever more reliable, of course. I would rather be engaged in and enjoying the experience.

    Only the Infiniti M35X seems to offer anything that reminds me of the "joy of driving" with which the German's seem to have been able to imbue their cars.

    Maybe the Infiniti has both the "Q" in the fun to drive dept and the reliability dept. I dunno.

    The X3, that my wife just let me drive from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh is a remarkable vehicle to spend 4 hours driving.

    This little (?) dude flies, is comfortable, responsive and so equipped with the upgraded sound system entertaining on several fronts.

    I have NOT owned a Lexus or any other Toyota car.

    I am not meaning to dis them. I have rented both Toyotas and Lexus cars and always found them "silent" and well-built (no rattles or other annoying problems so many rentals have.) Even the GS's tho don't feel the same connectivity to the art and science of driving as even the most pedestrian, stripped X3 2.5.

    But, that is MY OPINION.

    Dear BMW,

    Please make your cars more reliable (not that we have had ANY problems with either one we have had), but don't make them boring. For an example of boring, you have but to look at most of your American and Japanese competition.


    A Loyal (so far) German car fan (and his wife.)
  • I recall driving my Uncles LS430 and it was amazing.

    The car did everything almost to perfection. Comfortable, quiet, and the Mark Levinson was amazing.

    What a bore it was to drive. It a better Caddy, or at least a few years ago.

    No doubt its a fine car. Its for people who don't like to drive. In that, it washes out the road, noise, and is very peaceful. Perhaps very pleasent for the passengers, but I like the feel of moving. Just personal preference.

    My Sienna Limited minivan is perfect for the job its intended to do. Reliable, durable (I hope!) and very comfortable. Almost lexus like in its appointments.

    No lexus for me. Thank you though for building nice cars for other people. Infiniti are poser cars. They simulate performance and feel, but don't quite get it.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I believe that a Lexus is designed for people who think that they want a Mercedes but actually desire the soft and uninvolving driving experience of a traditional Cadillac.
  • I drove a 1989 420SEL. THis was the stretched very long s class. WOnderful care, big, lots of leg room, quiet, a great cruiser. Had it for 7 years.

    I dug up an old review of the car and they said "made for people who don't like to drive" and as much as I did not want to hear it, its was true.

    Lexus makes a fine auto for the majority of the american market that wants to isolate the world. The Blvd cruisers of our youth were the envy and status symbol to announce who has arrived!

    Lexus does what they do perhaps the best on the planet for the money! That being the LS. I hate the RX!! A total fashion car! No way on my list.

    Im considering the X3, FX35 (poser I know!), 3.4 A4 manual, A6 Avant, and maybe the ML350. Used to have a ML320 and liked it alot. I want Manual Tranny so its likely the audi vs. Bmw. Wish the audi Q 5 was available!

    Mark in Cincy: Question, if the mrs walked out and said you can take your pick of either cars, which one would it be? You have my top two picks and have been down my road. This coming out of a manual allroad myself. I posed this to you before, but now you have lived with both now for some time, I wonder if its changed?
  • The Audi has voice recognition for many of the functions that I consider important -- this alone then means the Audi has what I want as a safety feature.

    If the X3 had voice command and the decision would be painfully difficult.

    I love the X3 -- in many ways it is more "fun" but it needs just a couple of Lux touches to round it out.

    I think next year, it will have these touches.
  • You a gaget freak!

    Never would have guessed!

    Outside of the gagetry, just the driving experience. Do you miss the manual tranny? Is the X quick enough?

    What makes it fun vs. Comfortable?
  • I miss the manual transmission.

    As of today, however, I miss it a tiny bit less -- my 6spd tiptronic seems to have learned a new trick, and that trick really minimizes the lag that these transmissions (and that includes BMW's) are known for.

    The "ideal" X3 is perhaps the ideal car for many reasons.

    The ideal X3 would have the SMG transmission, the 255HP 3.0 engine, fully trimmed body (now standard) and idrive with voice recognition.

    Of course I would want to take a serious test drive of the X3 with the 255HP engine and the manual transmission before I pulled the trigger.

    Moreover, if the dash of the X3 could be just a bit less rugged looking, that would make the interior much more attractive (not that it is ugly by any means.)

    When I got my Audi allroad, I thought I was getting a swiss army knife of cars -- at this point, the X3 when it is offered with the 255HP engine will probably be such a vehicle.
  • Thanks for the honesty. I'd buy the allroad but I don't want a twin turbo car after 50k! Darn I love this car though! THe audi has been a rock!

    Audi interior is addictive! But Im afraid of missing the manual! S4 Avant? Interior still nicer than X3, but not much back seat! And price does matter! Im along the lines you were when you were shopping. A4 3.2 might do the trick.

    The 255 engine might come with a slight interior upgrade? Its not even the textured dash, just the lack of some trim appearences that make it somewhat spartan. Not too far off the mark though!

    There are worse things to ponder over. I am very impressed with the X-3!
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,087
    OK, if money didn't matter what would your ideal car be? And, why do you like the X3 more than an X5?
    I can't think of a car that I would want more than an X3. I would like every option available and i wouldn't mind two of them, an automatic and stick. Personally, I don't like the size or looks of the X5.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • If I dood it I get a whippin', I dood it anyway. . . .

    The X3 vs the X5 (beyond the tax implications that apply at this point still this year) is a non-starter unless you are looking at the X5 V8.

    But, for the money, for the space, the handling, the luxury, etc., the X3 is the "little engine that could," so to speak.

    IMHO, comparing a $47K X3 and a like priced X5, the X3 is more, more, more of everthing. It is the updated version of the X5 in styling and performance.

    Now, please note I am comparing the X3 3.0 and the X5 3.0 and factoring in what can be had for the "money factor."

    I do not think the X5 is in any way not a great vehicle. The X3 is in some ways more upscale, more of a "hauler" and not quite as lux.

    But again, think of it in terms of $47K -- the X3 at that price point performs better and has more content.

    The X5, to me, seems somewhat more luxurious and more refined. The 6spd manual transmission equipped X3 with upscale everything is hardly a "ruffian."

    With the money is no object as a "mode," I would go with a no holds barred Cayenne, the X5 and then the X3.

    In the world in which most of us live, the X3 is just more than the X5 at a comparable price point.

    However, please note there are some tax advantages that the X5 has over the X3 that may make it cheaper.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    If they can graft the front end of the X5 to an X3 rear, then they'd have a winner, IMO. I generally love the looks of the X5 - masculine, purposeful, although the back end looks a tad clumsy. Still, if the X5 were in the middle of its life cycle, rather than at the end, I would seriously pinch my pennies for one.
  • ONly plus is the interior appointment of the x-5. Closer to replacement, the better the deals. Especially left over when they make the change. 4.4 might be very attractively priced.

    The boot space is very small in the X5! It looks top heavy in its styling . X3 seems the proper dimension and looks right!

    Im weird, I want wood or Alum trim on the dash to break it up. The HVAC seems small and not much to look at. Overall appearence is not as upscale as I would like. My problem is I am looking at a fully loaded version with all boxes checked so price goes up to about 47k. Is this interior thing important? Not really, but its a step down from my Audi. SOunds like I should just keep the AUdi, but I like to change up and like to at least move on up a bit. A4 is not a move up either! X5 3.0 manual seems silly as the performance is just not there.

    The best value seem to take one off the lot and get the best lease possible. Be nice to get off the lot for under $500 per month. Might not be everyting I would want, but I'll feel good about it. Trying to option it up to something its not might not be the way either.

    Just random thoughts. I appreciate the dialong.

    Third options is buy 5year old small volvo wagon ($10,000) and drive it for 8 months and give it to my son when he is 16. he can learn to drive on it and with no lease payments I can just pocket the what I was paying on a lease which would in turn about pay for half his car. Also he don't have to learn on what would be my sweet new ride.

    By then perhaps the world will change and I can continue to shop on a position of strength.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,087
    Re: Volvos: We had a 1994 Volvo and even 3 dealers couldn't fix it. More repairs than any car I have ever had. I get the feeling that since Ford took it over it is really a Taurus in disguise. Daughters 1999 has had over $4,000 in transmission repairs and the dealer couldn't fix it either...actually had to go back to the manufacturer to be diagnosed. And, we loved our 80's Volvos, but never again.
    I think the X3 looks a lot better than the X5. The interior could be a little more glamourous but it is very functional, and I think it is a design you don't get tired of like the phony wood and chrome Caddies etc.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "I think the X3 looks a lot better than the X5."

    Except for the front end. More precisely the bumper, lights, grille, and leading edge of the hood. The one-piece design for the hood/grille on the X5 looks great, IMHO. :)
  • We went to the dealer when the X3 sale prices were being advertised. We incorrectly believed the lease deals were for in stock vehicles and configured two or three versions of the X3 that we thought we could live with.

    We wanted: 3.0, manual, sat nav, Sirius, upgraded sound system, Premium and sport -- AND we wanted teracotta leather seats.

    We could not get the combination we wanted.

    The dealer said, "no problem, we can order the exact car you want and keep the price per month on the lease as we agree upon." "Delivery time is less than 8 weeks."

    We agreed upon a car that would be at full MSRP just south of $47K -- no upfronts, first month and a sec dep. Mo pay = $581 @ 36 mo and 15K miles.

    Nothing, at that moment, from Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Mercededs or Volvo came close.

    Once again, we ordered the car we wanted -- now at some 28 cars ordered, we wonder what the fuss is about inventory.

    After all, they never have what you want, you always have to take something less than what you want if you buy off the lot.

    On the other hand, I know that the days of ordering your new Porsche and waiting up to 9 months (or longer) for the dealer's allocation soured many on the idea of ordering.

    Odd, how people will buy $50K cars that are "almost" what they wanted.

    At least with BMW (and Audi from my recent experince), you can get the car you want in about 2 months.

    Immediate gratification may be nice -- but at this price point, why settle for "almost" what you want?

    Regrets -- we should have ordered the privacy glass, we should have insisted on the home link transmitter -- but these ARE minor.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 70,618
    People are different..

    I went to the same dealer last month.... They had exactly one example of the model I was looking for (an '05)... and, I bought it!!

    Regrets? I wish I had more money... ;)


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • Me too -- and if they had the exact car we wanted, we would have taken it off the lot.

    My Audi dealer, even when I offered two color combinations couldn't comply either.

    I certainly don't go in with the intention that I will have to order, but that is how it always seems to pan out.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 70,618
    Oh.. it wasn't the exact one that I wanted... but, you can't order an '05, and get the killer lease deals...

    I agree though.... to get our '03 325i, I had to look for a slightly used one, or order a new one... They almost never have the combo you want in stock..

    I think I have a stronger negotiating position when I buy a car off the lot, though...



    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • I wondered about that -- but the dealer in late March 2005 when we were buyting the BMW said "the deal is the deal" at the MSRP the lease payment is "X" on an in stock X3 or an ordered one.

    We even changed the order within 5 days of the original configuration by adding Servotronic, and since the car was not yet on the line, the change was accepted (but I had to give them the $250 CASH.)

    Ever larger inventories at our favorite Greater Cincinnati BMW dealer have not worked for us, thus far.

    Ditto the Audi store, the Infiniti store and even the Chrysler store -- at every one of these dealers we were in an "order" or "settle" choice.

    Since we were in no real hurry, we were "ripe" to order exactly what we wanted.

    Of course, we didn't realize that a $47K BMW did not have homelink or power folding mirrors -- so add those to our order, next time, along with privacy glass.

    Overall, we've not really missed the automatic built in garage door opener, but it seems like such an odd oversight at this price point (and shame on us for assuming it would be standard with the Premium package.)

    We love our BMW, but based on MSRP they are really under-contented. Yet, the lease deals are soooo attractive you can crank a BMW up above $50K and still have a monthly payment that feels more like you are leasing a Chrysler 300C which is many thousands less.
  • Appreciate the heads up. I have a real nice Audi connection, a client of mine is the used car manager at a very large dealer. But none such at BMW. I will take do the fax thing with about 5 dealers in the state when the time comes and offer them the deal. Money facters are higher now, but I am assuming the x-3 is not the red hot offering flying out the door unless the pricing incentives are there.

    The X3 may be the perfect vehicle for me!

    I am hoping the Audi Q7 takes much demand out from the A6 avent and make my choice harder!

    THe Volvo is already in the family (sister)and has 34k on it. I have a private master mechanic whom worked on my mercedes for 10 years and does volvos also. The history on this car is very clean.

    My son though wants a manual like his pop! I think a Honda element or a Diesel Jetta wagon (all used mind you) would suffice best. Front or awd, good fuel econmy and good track record. I gotta bone upon the jettas though.

    He is a musicion and Ice hockey player. Will need lots of usable space. The jetta gets great fuel milage and is not very very quick.

    A high milage pleather base bones 2.5 X3 might be a good choice but I ain't going there!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,592
    If you're watching...Congrats on your new (used) X3! WHat options does your X3 have on it? Did you get rid of your wife's 5er or your Wrangler? I'm very eager to hear your impressions of the X3!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    We really weren't planning to buy anything, but here we are...
    It seems our dealer was offering past customers a $50 gift certificate for BMW accessories if you test drove a new E90, so we stopped by a couple of weeks ago. While we were there, my wife jokingly asked our salesman if they were going to get any CPO X3s. It turned out that they were getting one the next day- a Flamenco Red 2004 2.5 with 16K. Options were Steptronic, PP, CWP, heated wheel, leather, privacy glass, xenons, and satellite radio prep, with a BMW CPO warranty until July 2010. We decided to give it a hard look if we could sell our 5er. My indie BMW shop found a buyer-check the "Real World Trade-In Values" thread for the details-and all of a sudden we were in the market for a new vehicle. My wife wanted an AWD or 4X4 with decent ground clearance so that she could make it out our half mile gravel driveway in the winter. The only other vehicle we seriously considered was the Nissan Xterra Off Road(we also took a brief look at the Forester XT, but neither of us eat granola or wear Birkenstocks). We both really liked the Nissan, but finally decided it would serve better as a replacement for the TJ Wrangler in a year or so.
    As for the X3, I'm very pleased with it and my wife loves it. Despite its two ton curb weight the X feels much lighter and more nimble than the 5er. Acceleration isn't anything to write home about, but it's OK. The ride is taut but not uncomfortable. As I won't be tracking the X, I don't really miss the Sport Package. Besides, if I want to carve up a road course or twisting two lane I'll take the Club Sport or Speed Triple. Some people find the X3 interior to be plain and/or somber, but I prefer its no-nonsense Teutonic functionality; it sort of reminds me of my Bavaria and E24 M6. I'm not very critical about car audio anymore, so the lack of premium sound doesn't bother me. In any case, it sounds much better than the DSP system that was fitted to the 528i. It would be nice to have the Valvetronic 3.0, but the money I saved buying this car can be applied to the M1 acquisition fund-or maybe to a new M Coupe(that matte silver prototype at Frankfurt is very alluring).
  • ring. . .

    me: "hello?"

    my wife: "have I told you how much I love my X3?"

    me: "not for 15 minutes. . . ."

    my wife: "now I know what you mean about the way you felt when you drove my TT for a couple of months -- when you said you felt like you were a bug on the highway. . . this BMW X3's is sooooooo confidence inspiring."

    me: "yea yea, I heard you the 37th time, 16 minutes ago. . ."

    my wife: "I want you to order a new X3 for me. . . ."

    me: "what, you have 28 months to go on your lease. . ."

    my wife: "oh, I know, I don't mean I want you to order one to immediately replace my 2005 X3, I just want you to make sure that we have the timing down so that I can get my 2008 X3 when the time comes."

    me: "good grief!"

    my wife: "this car is so great in snow, too -- I'm king, er, queen of the road!"

    me: "good bye, dear."

  • Be careful. The X3 has had more problems than our Volvo XC90. At least Volvo accepts they have problems and inform the dealer on what to do to fix them. BMW continues to be slow on the information the dealer receives on common problems. Overall very disappointed by a +$40 machine. Even GM does better than BMW in this price range.....Back to Honda and Toyota I guess.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    A "BMWstinksI'mgoingtobuyaHondayota" post.
    Made by an individual who just signed up.
    Don't see those in the BMW topics very often.
  • At 12,000 miles on a 2005 X3 3.0, this car ties for being the most trouble free car we have ever had -- and although I am certain many will discount the car it tied with, I'll tell you that car is an Audi.

    We have taken the X3 in to the dealer ONE time for an "issue" -- that is, after 6 months and winter coming on, we decided we wanted all new wiper blades. They were replaced, the car vacuumed and washed.

    While we were in for this, we were offered a loaner car for pity's sake, free Starbuck's coffee and what appeared to be fresh, home made choc chip cookies.

    In 12,000 miles, we have added 1/2 quart of oil since when checking the dip stick we noted the oil was down to the lower part of "normal" range. We asked the dealer about this and he told us to use Castrol Super Syn 0W-30 and only to use the pint.

    Oh yea, once, while we were at Costco, we had all four tires checked and we added a pound of pressure all around. This was more a "while we're here," kind of thing, not due to any indication of need.

    If all cars at 12K miles needed this much attention there would be almost nothing to complain about.

    My only yellow flag is my own history -- I am from the school of thought that says even with modern oil, 10,000 miles between oil changes is enough.

    Hey, its a 36 month lease, they (BMW) certainly want to resell the car and if they think the car will be fine with that freq of oil changes, who am I?

    I cannot comment on the Honda, Toyota, Acura cars -- they may be better for all I know.

    The X3 has been terrific.

    I wish the dash board was of a finer grain -- of course that would only make it seem more lux than ours, so equipped with every BMW option imaginable (except auto trans) practically.

    This car @ $581/mo w/MSRP=$47K replaced a $43K Audi TT that was $709 per month, same deal.

    We get to keep that German driving experience, have room to haul stuff and a bargain to boot.

    Another corner heard from. :shades:
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,087
    Re: BMWstinks....Excellent detective work, you should be on CSI. Our X3 has 12,000 miles (20,000 kms) without any problems.
    Offhand, I can't think of any other car I would choose over an X3. For a combination of the nicest design, best handling, huge amount of space, best ergonomics, safety features, gas mileage, and probably a great trade in value which is why your lease rates are so low...what could be better?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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