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Hey hey hey!! I'm in marketing. Customers usually don't want to be educated - they want to be presented with an image they can see themselves in.
Recently I ran across a mechanic from an automotive news e-mail service, explaining the Honda Accord's cabin air filter change procedure. And Honda's supposed attention to detail? Appalled, disbelief and disgust after reading the article.
The passenger side of the dash looked removed/gutted down to the HVAC box in the picture and I thought it was a chore in my Mystique? It's actually a piece-a-cake compared to the Accord. It looked to me very similar to a friend's radiator/air condition shop when he replacing the evaporator core because of a leak. Which just yesterday a friend with a Chrysler mini-van was quoted 9 1/2 hours of labor to replace.
One big complains about most cars, the engineers have to design for assemble line efficiencies? Fuel pump inside of fuel tank and half the car has to disturbed to replace or just to clean the fuel pick-up sock? This stupidity/maintain costs (troubleshooting/replacing) that's really getting more and more friends across the USA and also in Europe upset. Probably an age think, been there done that, not wasting my hard earned money. Maybe it's just me, since do like to fix things myself and attract similar folks thru Ham radio's sharing of information, maintenance aspects and R & D perfecting of the emergency communications. The FCC licensing even encourages and expects us to do so.
I have many engineering friends electrical, RF and electronic that are all look at maintenance costs of ownership. So far 99% have expressed their destain with Hybrids because they are well aware of costs down the road will be more than double any possible fuel savings. They see it as another fad much like the SUV vanity fad.
So Ant 14 if you would past on our maintenance costs concerns as another aspect of choosing which car to purchase. Oh since the wife has asthma a Hepa cabin air filter would help. Also hard would be to provide dash with access panels like the Air Forces new F-22? Maybe it's the law suits?
I will shut up and quite boring the non maintenance types, because this is just the gist of our decision choices when we decide to buy. Cost of troubleshooting the "CEL."
TNX
Paul
N8BUU
LOL
That is exactly why I asked. My Mazda6 produces 220 HP and 192 ft-lbs at a fairly high RPM. Most owners with the ATX (I have the MTX) complain about "off the line" power because there just isn't much down low. I don't see Ford doing this given their history of producing vehicles with generous amounts of torque.
I still think the initial numbers Ford published here are what we are really going to see regardless of what any dealer employee says. Nowhere in that press kit does it say that their numbers are subject to change and the only way I can see them upping the HP is by installing a less restrictive exhaust at this point. Engines for the Fusion and it's sisters are most likely being produced full tilt right now so production of the cars won't be delayed in the near future, and I doubt any last minute changes to the motor are even possible at this point.
I could be totally off but I just don't see the HP increas being possible. Also consider that the '06 Mazda6 will actually have less HP (less than 220) and slightly more torque (more than 192 ft-lbs). That makes the Fusion's rumored power increase even less likely IMHO.
yes, torque is important but to say horsepower is more for marketing is going a little overboard. a vehicle is not going anywhere with out horsepower (the engine's ability to work!). keeping the torque at higher revs (horespower) is important to driveability too.
To theman, here's a list of vehicles that have duratec30 engines:
Ford: Taurus, Escape, 500, Freestyle, Fusion
Mercury: Sable, Mariner, Montego, Milan
Lincoln: LS, Zephyer
Mazda: 6, Tribute, MPV
Jaguar: S-type, X-type
And these are just for NA market. Of all those, there are probably 5 or 6 duratec30 variations.
This is the latest info the dealers have.
Mark
Cabin air filter yes or no?
TNX
Paul
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=21021&make_id=trust
The Contour is now 10+ years old and starting to show signs of age although it still drives nice... time to start looking for a newer car.
I considered a used Lexus GS430 (2001) BUT the Premium Fuel requirement killed it in my book with fuel costs likely to go way up.
So without a rock solid reliable used $50,000 car for the low 20,000's(Private Party) I looked at new models again...
So far I've narrowed my choices down to...
The 2006 Sonata LX (V6) looks very hard to beat (I've NEVER considered a Hyundai before) but this car seems to have it all. Waiting for XM standard and hopefully some rebates. Under 24K sticker and loaded (sunroof 6 disc changer) about 21,500 invoice.
and the Ford Fusion (V6) as the other possibility.
Can't wait to drive both!
My benchmarks... a full step better than my current V6 Contour in terms of performance, better MPG, more space, safety, ride and value.
Where will Fusion be better than the new Sonata? Opinions?
Not that I've seen but the Zephyr pricing was announced today so I guess the Fusion and Milan won't be far off.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=21021&make_id=trust
Everyone else,
I noticed that the Zephyr's Duratec30 will produce 221 HP which was discussed before in regard to the Fusion's version of that motor. However, the Fusion is still listed at 210. Maybe the leaked info was for the Lincoln only?
Look here to see the specs of the Zephyr from the original press kit. Still states 210 HP but as you can see from today's pricing announcement, Ford is now telling us that it makes 221 HP. So is that going to hold for the other two of the triplets? Hmmmmmm....
*Another edit*
Here they have 220 HP listed for the Zephyr.
To Baggs32 I don't know which one to believe either, because like you said one says 200 then the other one says 220 HP with 200 TQ. Interesting, I'm just going to give Ford the benefit of the doubt and lean more towards the 221 HP numbers, until proven other wise.
Fusion and Mazda6 seems to be sporty and better handling cars. Because Fusion is based on Mazda6 is should be, so Sonata is hardly competitor here. These cars are more for enthusiasts than for ordinary customers who can get more plushy cars with Honda and Toyota. Mazda is more on Contours territory, both are compacts. Fusion is rather large compact, similar to Accord – Accord also is not exactly midsize car. But you can also consider Mazda3, if you do not like Focus plastic interior.
As I mentioned on another Forum, the Volvo engines will stay for the Volvo/LR/Jaguar use. Only one "Volvo" engine will be used on a Lincoln product for the future.
The CD3 architecture (what the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr is built on) can't fit an I-6, without major modifications to do so.
Theman,
I believe the TSX uses premium.
actually they are for demanding customers. they just value refinement over sportiness and frankly the mazda 6 is not as polished as those cars overall. neither is the sonata but it's a lot closer now. cars such as the impala, stratus and taurus are for the undemanding ordinary customer.
the accord is not as fun to drive as a maxda 6 but it's more engaging to drive than the camry. many people who drive camrys find the accord's ride too rough.
indications are that the fusion will be a great driver's car. however the fusion may have a more compliant ride that the mazda 6 in order to appeal to a wider base than the mazda 6.
the current passat is still probably the best overall driver's car in this segment.
"Accord also is not exactly midsize car"
the accord is every bit as roomy as the camry except for trunk volume. the sonata is said to be roomier than both.
Compared to Mazda Ford is more mainstream. I believe that Fusion will not compete against Camry. Those who like boats like Camry will not be impressed by Fusion. And Fusion is also too small for this group.
In other words Ford does not have Camry fighter. But Fusion will deliver family values to younger generation than Camry. You can say that Milan can take care of older generation. But it is the same car. They can make it ride softer, but still size matters. May be 500/Montego are supposed take care of older buyers, but 500 supposed to compete against Avalon.
"the accord is every bit as roomy as the camry except for trunk volume. the sonata is said to be roomier than both"
Three people can hardly sit across the bench in Accord. Accord always was compact. In America they made it a bit longer increasing wheelbase. But it is still narrow. In 1992 new Camry sharply changed from compact to midsize, as well as Altima did in USA.
Consider this. Toyota line always was like (subcompact-compact-midsize class):
Corolla – Carina/Avensis(not sold in USA) - Camry
Mazda: 323 – 626 –929
Nissan: Almera/Sentra – Primera/Altima -Maxima
Honda: Civic – Accord – Legend (in USA was known as Acura).
Legend was competing with likes Toyota Camry, Nissan Maxima, Mitsu Sigma (Diamant in USA) and Accord against 626, Primera and Carina. Accord was slightly larger than all these cars, but still in the same class.
You can argue all you want about which ones might appeal to the sporty driver, boulevard cruiser retiree, family haulers, etc. etc, but the bottom line is they are all in the same classification, in both exterior size dimensions and accomodations and it is fair to compare them all.
I do worry that too often Ford is happy to use today's class leaders as benchmarks for tomorrow's cars. By the time the new cars come out, the industry has moved forward and they're lucky to be middle of the pack. Even the much awaited 3.5 Duratec seems to only get Ford on par with what much of the competition had a couple years ago; 250 (ish) horsepower isn't much to brag about in an engine of that size these days.
Ford, on the other hand has the Five Hundred with 203hp, the Fusion with 221hp, and the Freestar with 201hp. These vehicles are severely underpowered and lack the refinement of the class leaders.
Ford has a lot riding on the new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr. Looks like their engines will be criticized for a lack of power. Ford should have introduced these three and the Five Hundred/Montego with better engines rather than making consumers wait.
Is it any wonder that cars like the Avalon, Sienna, Camry, Accord and Odyssey are such class leaders?
It's 2005 Ford. Get with the program, or get out.
My undeerstanding is most of those cars with available 240 HP (or whatever) engines are actually sold with the base 4 cylinder engine.
That is very true. But having a class leading V6 gives you bragging rights and prestige. Remember, Ford is trying to gain market share at the expense of the competition and class leading powertrain and refinement along with good reliability and fuel efficiency will get the job done. I am sure Ford does not want to finish in the middle of the pack in any mid size sedan comparo tests. Auto rags generally prefer to test the V6 over the 4 banger.
Also, regular octane fuel is another consideration at this time of increasing gas prices.
Thirdly, the marjority of models sold are I-4 designation. Let's keep in mind, if it wasnt' for the V6 Mustang, the Mustang GT wouldn't exsist...so on and so fourth. There's always going to be a vehicle that has more HP, or more torque, or more headroom, or truck capacity etc.
Another point, not sure about some of you, but the majority of V6 Accords, Camrys, etc I see out on the street for some odd reason seem to be slowing down the rest of traffic. I've only seen one V6 Altima actually make use of what it had, while working around traffic...passing by the V6 Accords, Camry's etc with people who drive it as if it were an I-4. It's not what the car comes with, it's how you use it I say.
Prices Released today....
http://media.ford.com/products/press_article_display.cfm?article_id=21050&vehicle_id=1231&make_id=92&CFID=5736751&CFTOKEN=2440fd96c848ea6-AB556472-F209-6BC8-21F7F09F28E4856B&jsessionid=b430734636ba$91X$9C$
All Accords, and most Camrys, and all Sonatas are so equipped or will be for the '06 model year.
It was extremely frustrating recently to go looking for a Focus for a friend, who wanted only 3 things as must-haves: automatic, ABS, and side bags. Yeah, well, good luck - most of the cars so equipped had a load of other options, and any base cars with automatic couldn't be found with a complete safety package. Said person is now going to wait for the new Civic, and will wind up paying more, probably, but was really put off by what was available at the 6 local dealers we checked on the website.
Even if the pricing for these options is modest, the AVAILABILITY of them is another matter. I hate government intervention on these kinds of issues, but with the latest crash tests indicating that side and head airbags make a huge difference in outcomes, I am starting to lean toward a rule requiring a complete airbag package on every car. I think ABS ought to be in the same category, but recognize that too many Americans don't know how to use it.
One of the junker cars I am currently driving is a 1991 Sentra 1.6 L automatic, with probably under 100 HP...I still accelerate faster than most of the drivers on the road. Same was true when I was driving an 89 Voyager with a 99 HP 4 cylinder.
Thanks for the link to pricing, etc...
I-4 Manual / V-6 Automatic
2006 Ford Fusion $17,995 / $21,275
2006 Hyundai Sonata $18,495 / $21,495
2005 Honda Accord $18,510 / $24,465
2005 Chevrolet Malibu $19,825 / $21,890
2005 Toyota Camry $19,735 / $23,070
2005 Nissan Altima $19,880 / $23,880
LMAO