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2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
This coming week's chat on Feb 10 is also going to include a set of trivia questions about the 2004 Mazda models, gleaned from the pages of Edmunds.com! So study up and join us on Tuesday evening!!
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Honda is offering special incentives on accord/civic because the sales of honda cars are on a steady decline. Its also no big secret much of new siennas sales is coming at the expense of odysseys behind. Honda also recently completed the expansion of alabama plant to increase the output capacity of odyssey. Where is the cash rebate or special lease deals on still strong sellers pilot and cr-v?
Did honda offer special incentives before the new sienna hit the market when people were waiting weeks if not months. See terry its all very simple supply and demand.
I just checked the toyota site and i can see toyota is offering cash incentives on most of their products but no incentives on the sienna. I wonder why that is.
I can recall back in 2002 when my wife was looking for compact suv we shopped all over town including mazda tribute. Honda dealers were basically pay msrp or walk on the cr-v. If they did not have the color you wanted, put a deposit down and wait for the next shipment. The mazda dealers were much more receptive as there were quite a few to choose from. I can also recall mazda was offering special incentives at the time as well.
Do you think department stores like macys routinely markdown items that are fast movers or limit them to slow moving items? Look at what the record low interest rates have done to the housing market.
I will agree with you terry businesses will tend to offer special incentives in an effort to increase or maintain their market share. What I disagree with you is on the point you made "there is no direct correlation between slow sales and special incentives like cash rebate".
I am upset though why is the 3 getting off to a quick start out of the gate and the 6 didn't? That baffles me.
Those are your words, "not mine" .. so now you back up faster than a tow truck in a 4 lane highway at rush hour.
Toyota and Honda have had incentives, rebates and special rates for years, 90% of the their selling fleet is under some incentive or another ... but now, you want to point out the "new" Sienna and a CR-V from 2 years ago ...?
.. oh, that's staying on the issue .l.o.l..
Ok, let's go your way and let's side-track the issue, Macys as well as Dilliards (and many others) are having Huge mark-downs on Nautica, Tommy Hill, Polo, Mani and a host of other "big" names, as much as 70% off and the reason being is, those companies don't want inventory just sitting in 200+ stores at $500,000+ a pop - turn and burn the inventory and move on to the new stuff - economics 101.
Theres nothing different in the car business, you can have the nicest Porsche 911 sitting on the front line, but it's time for that puppy to head to the auction if it's not moving in "quick time", why tie up $70,000+ (and pay the floor plan) when you can replace it with 2 or 3 03 TL's - economics 101.
The cheap rates is actually the point, do you think it doesn't sell cars as well as homes .? .. Sure it does, thats the reason why Toyota and Honda subsidizes their vehicles by $1,0/$1,500 per vehicle, as far as the Siennas are concerned as soon as the market heats up in the in the spring you will be seeing something on those ..
** that was nice song and dance but I think it is you who are still confused and cannot grasp the simple economic concept of supply and demand.**
Am I confused, your kidding right.? .. I live it everyday and I have been in this business for going on 20 years in March, so I have a little hint on what goes on, in the meantime ~ your just bobbing for apples ..........
Terry ;-)
On the 3 sedan the back end looks like a Chevy Cavilier too much. I understand there is styling similarties in evety car nowadays but it looks way too much like a Cavilier in my opinion. The 3 hatch looks ok thoughfrom what I have seen though.
One thing that sparks my interest is people whine about resale value but people act like 3 is the best thing since sliced bread. I don't understand that. Maybe Mazda can sell the 3 own its own merit rather then resorting to discounting. I don't know.
the mazda 6 is a nice car, but it's already had many complaints from customers abour rust seepage on the door panels. mazda also took too long to release the wagon and hatchback. they're STILL not out yet.
if i had to choose a sedan myself, i'd probably go for the 2005 altima, because 250 ft/lbs of torque is pretty darn appealing compared to mazda's perenially under-powered cars. the RX-8 has, what 158 ft/lbs of torque? not very impressive, even for a light car. the rotary engine is way too small. i don't think it'll hold up over the years, especially in combo with a turbocharger. mazda seems very fragile at the moment, except for the 3.
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As far as the rust is concerned it doesn't effect 04 models only 03's. I know its enexcuseable though.
As far as the Altima is concerned yeah it may have alot of power but I don't think 220 horsepower for the 6's V6 is that bad. Add in complaints about torque steer for the Altima.
i feel most strongly about the accord sedan though. i've sat in it and was really impressed by the layout and quality materials, but then i would walk around the sedan and just couldn't get past that frumpy rear end. I'd love to see the final sketches of the rear-end treatment that were laid out on the honda design chief's desk. i bet one of the proposals that was rejected was much nicer. poor choice by management.
actually, it would be quit easy to fix it. just eliminate that downward turn on the bottom edge of the light, and give it a straight cut line parallel to the top edge. it would give the accord sedan a slimmer more-balanced look like on the alfa 164 rear end, which was very chic.
You get in a similar Mazda 3 for $16 with a lot more features.
Any thoughts?
Oh and I like the 6. I'm guessing they'll up the hp to compete with the altima as well. Or just offer a mazdaspeed version.
Oh yeah I saw my 5th and 6th Mazda 3's this week.
They both will have great styling, best-in-class power (for now anyway), and generous equipment levels. I would say they will be going at it head to head. Of course, VW has the disadvantage that statistically speaking they haven't been well built for a very long time, and Mazda has the disadvantage that no-one has ever heard of it (OK, a little exaggeration there, but you get the drift).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It does concern me that some dealers have such large inventories of RX8s just sitting around. Oh please don't let this car fail in the market! It will be the death of the rotary!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mazda has to remember this is not the late 80's/early 90's with the sports coupe market. This is not 1991 its 2004 with SUV's all over the place. I don't know Mazda's sales targets for the RX-8 for this year. I think they did meet their sales targets as far as July 03-December 03 as far as RX-8 sales goals are concerned. Mazda just made too many RX-8's I think. They have to market the car on commercials more too. Its not a Honda S2000 where its going to sell through ads in Import Magazines. Mazda has not yet garnered that reputation with import tuners the way Honda has. It took Honda a long time to garner that reputation. It didn't happen overnight for Honda.
Yes I have seen the large inventories at one particular Mazda dealer in Central NJ too but look at the price and Mazda is just making a comeback in NA. I think the 6 and 3 will do good for them. I don't think the RX-8 will be as big as Mazda thinks it is going to be.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If you have ever driven a rotary, I don't think you would ever look at a crude large-displacement V-8 again. Those rotaries wind out like jet engines. The rush of power is amazing. But it is true, that your driving style has to include enjoying keeping the engine on boil.
Oh yeah, and don't forget - this car is only 2800 pounds or so. 240 hp in a 2800 pound car with perfect 50/50 weight distribution. That 2-ton Magnum may beat the RX8 off a stoplight start, but throw in any turns, or give the RX8 a quarter mile, and the Mazda will do itself proud, I am sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
it's that "whooosh" feeling as you hit the meaty part of the band and really take off that makes you feel like you're rocketing away. i wish mazda would be less scientific about this and give their cars more of a defined "spiky" power curve instead of a smooth flat line where the power builds up evenly.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
some people "complain" that the exceedingly excellent sound proofing in certain luxury cars makes them feel cut off from the road, robbing them of the important aural pleasures of hearing engine roar, wind (not the self-generated kind), and tires, things which give the driver the impression of speed and acceleration. all the while the vehicle itself is going lightning fast, but what good is that if you feel like you're sitting in a muffled marsmallow?
as a long-time motorcyclist, i abhor noisy pipes, am very sensitive to the sound and feel of the engine (singles, v-twins,triples, and inline 4s all have very different characteristics) and prefer bikes which have a pleasing power delivery. you might be surprised that bikes with a flat linear power delivery are often the least "enjoyable" to ride because they don't rocket you forward.
when i press the throttle in a car, i want the car to accelerate immediately with no hesitation and be geared towards power at the bottom end. obviously this makes me a candidate for a torque rich V8 powered car like the magnum, or a v-twin naked sport bike or standard. some people like the sound and feel of winding the engine up to the redline and hearing the wailing song of high rpm. someone like this would probably love an S2000 or RX-8.
the worst is when a car has neither style nor speed. the driver and car you describe with the "all show and no go" superficial add-ons is most usually a young man with aspirations of a fast sports car but who can only afford to drive a less popular car, often a family hand-me-down or inexpensive beater.
while it may be funny, there's no point in ridiculing someone who can't afford better. as someone i know used to say to people who would use their material posessions to look down on other people, "poor people know just as well as you what the finer things in life are. they just can't afford them."
the only thing that i can't understand are those people who can afford a nice car in good condition like a prelude or accord coupe and add grotesque wings and body kits that mask all the original lines on the car. i prefer Q ships, cars that appear stock, but are modifed in places you can't see. of course, taste is a personal matter, right?
and as far as that all-show-no-go car, it has nothing to do with money. For all the bucks these add-ons cost, that person could have had a faster car to start with. So don't hand me that "ridiculing someone who can't afford better" because most of those cars wind up costing way more than a good stock car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Complicating questions about Mazda's future is its close relationship with Ford. Look for Ford to increasingly rely on Mazda for its smaller cars and SUVs. That has to affect what Mazda offers, and how the brand is positioned in the market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't think Ford is complicating Mazda at all right now. Lets face it Ford totally threw Mazda off in the mid 90's and buyers wiped Mazda vehicles off their shopping list when buyers were ready to buy a new car. To me Mazda is doing its own thing right now. I just don't know what kind of direction they are going in as a brand in terms of product. Mazda has been know to make small cars before like the last generation MX-6(93-97.) Small cars seem to be where Mazda thrives. I'm just not sure if selling small cars in the US like the Microsport is going to work because of the big SUV market. However there is a sign that small cars might be making a comeback in the US: Honda is bringing the Fit/Jazz over to the US and Honda in terms of product decision is usually a real good gage in terms of where the US market is headed. Remember the CR-V in 1996-1997: the Cross-over SUV's all over the place now.
This begs the question will people spend 30K-40K on a Mazda since the Millenia failed in that price range? Some people will see it as another gas guzzling SUV and it will sell in bulkloads.
So Mazda's line-up looks like this in a few years:
Subcompact: Microsport
Compact: 3
Mid-size: 6
Entry level SUV(If they keep it around:) Tribute
Sports Cars: Miata and Rx-8
Full Size SUV off the Mazda 6 platform(no name known of yet.)
I don't know where the Mx-5 hatch fits in this line-up.
I was actually wondering what Ford will do with Explorer once it has Freestyle - they seem to be very similar in size, passenger capacity, and power.
Could it be time for a new Mazda Navajo? LOL.
And once Ford releases its new mini-ute (what's the name? I forget), I guess Mazda could have a version of that too, at which point I imagine Tribute might go away.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I rather Mazda just build its own SUV rather than Ford getting invloved with it. I don't mid Mazda using Ford engines and putting their own touches on it but everything else it seems Ford has put in Mazda cars has damaged Mazda's rep.
http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone.asp?articleZoneID=880
Mazda will certainly build this vehicle off the Mazda6 platform, but I think it will be more "Pacifica" in nature than "Explorer" or even "Freestyle". In other words more focused on providing flexibility, space and luxury than utility.
My guess is that this vehicle may be one of the few in the Mazda line-up that uses a variation of the new 3.5 duratec, but Mazda also may debut a hybrid powertrain, as they displayed in the MX-Tourer concept.
If Mazda is in fact aiming for a new product in the near-luxury price range, I think they would be wise to benchmark the new Mercedes Vision GST - which is exactly the kind of niche that I think and hope Mazda will fill.
As for the Tribute, Both Ford and Mazda will have a freshened version on the ground in March. There is no reason to believe that Mazda will not continue to offer this model for at least several more years to really wring some profit out of it.
The more interesting question mark is the B-Series truck. Mazda does quite well with it in Canada, but Ford continues to push back it re-design of the Ranger, now not slated until 2008 I think. I've heard that Mazda Canada has considered dropping the Ford derived vehicle and bringing back a Japanese-built version, which they still sell in Asia and Australia.
http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1.asp?articleZoneID=1855
About a pick-up I would like to see Mazda offer a pick-up without Ford or just get rid of it altogether. Mazda right now is doing what Audi/VW did in the in the late 90's: redesigning, and renaming models.
I can't wait for the new MPV which is coming out I think is coming out for 06.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040302/latu112_1.html
In other Mazda news Mazda has announced they will make a Mid-sized SUV. To me thats a good thing.
Mazda has switched their target demograhic over the last 10 years so much. They are tring to win buyers they had 10-13 years ago and also buyers in their mid 20's. To me Mazda has alot going for it right now. I just don't want to see them ruin it.
I happen to like the MPV's more compact size but it's not what american buyers generally like in a "mini" van. We seem to like mini to be maxi.
Carguy58-I agree, now that Mazda seems to have found it's niche they need to stay focused. They are a sporty alternative for those who don't have BMW style money. I'd like to see them spin a RWD sedan off the RX-8 platform and an inexpensive sport coupe off the Miata. Maybe put the Ford SOHC V-8 in a "halo" version of the sedan (a la CTS-V), keep it around 30K. Make sure it's "european" enough that Ford doesn't think it is a threat to the 'Stang.
If your listening Mazda, I'm willing to head these projects! :-D
I think your right that going head to head with Toyonda would be dumb (was last time) and it would rob the enthusiasts of a neat alternative.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Man that would be fun. Basically a modern MGB GT that would start when it was wet outside. Hmmmmm drooling at the thought.