Indeed, there are 4. Base, Touring, Limited, and HemiC.
The Base gets the 2.7, the Touring and Limited get the 3.5 and well, you know what gets what. I feel like the Base exists to allow Chrysler to advertise a low base/entry price of somewhere in the 23-25k range for people shopping somewhat higher end mid-sized cars. AFAICT, the Touring/Limited are basically the same car with one having more stuff standard (perhaps Dale or soozpk could tell us more detail?).
The HemiC not only adds the engine, but I think it's also the only model with 18s, the tortoise shell accents, etc. This car basically has to be a workhorse of sorts for Chrysler--although for an entry-level car, I don't think anything is wrong with the Sebring, especially with the V6--so that is probably why it's all over the board.
Suddenly, I'm giving VERY serious thought to a 300C. While it bothers me that you can't turn off the dynamic stability system, I may still be able to have some fun with the car. I just saw a video of a 300C doing a huge smoky drift -- absolutely frying the back tires.
I still have to drive the GTO and the Chrysler (as soon as the dealer gets some). That will help me decide.
I like the look of the 300C, but need the cargo room of the Dodge Magnum. However, I do not like the Dodge looks nor the interior aimed for a "sporty" look.
I see that Chrysler is doing a Sportwagon version of the 300C for non-North American markets called the 300C Touring. I so much prefer the look of this car (the grill, the lights, the interior dash, the bias towards luxury over sport) over the Magnum.
Why oh why, are Chrysler not selling the sportwagon here in the US? It sounds like it could beat our Audi hands down with regard to engine performance, suspension feel, load capacity, acceptable level of luxury etc etc.
I would wait for the AWD version, but really will need to buy something by winter. We'll consider the Dodge, but would prefer the Chrysler. Otherwise, we'll probably end up with a used Audi A6 for similar money...
Any body think that Chrysler may do a U-turn and release the 300C as a wagon?
The base 300 is a very nice car for the price, provided one can live without the goodies. It would be pretty much like driving your dad's 60's vehicle. Basic transportation, but you do get A/C, 4 speed auto, AM-FM with CD Player, power windows, disc brakes, and lots more, that was either option-only, or wasn't available back in the '60's. I thought we hit the big-time back then when my dad's '67 Fury III came with A /C and tinted windows.
crispiegee, You shouldn't be comparing the new GTO to the Hemi C. You want more bang for the buck, wait for the Charger R/T to come out. The Hemi C, as much as one views it as a quick car, it's still a family sedan. You want to be "King of the Street", wait for Dodge to do it's thing with the Charger.
Instead of "Base" they should have named it the "Taxi" model. lol
Checked my dealer today while having my M serviced. [Window motor finally kaput at 5.75 years--outlasted the suggested TSB changeover by at least 3 years] No 300C's or Magnums yet, and they were worried about not having one for the Premier on the 22nd. I told em not to worry, marketing couldn't have screwed up the premier that badly-not having any of the vehicles for the guests to drool over.
It's already been written here that the C makes a cameo in a G-Unit(50 Cent's group) video. About a week ago on a MTV car special featuring G-Unit's stable of Hummers and Escalades they briefly discussed 50's 300 on 22's.
Mary J. Blige drives a silver 300C in her new video "It's a Wrap." Is the C going to replace the S-Class and 745 as the sedan of choice for stars? lol
I'm seriously impressed, and the ride can't be *that* flinty if they're going to offer a 'hot rod' SRT version, next year...that'll be what, model year 2008?
I can't wait to see a couple, in person. Plus, the color of the car pictured in the article is right up my alley. Just love silver vehicles...dunno why. Easy to have them not be constantly dirty-looking.
Oh, and while it was pre-production, I'd bet it's been thrashed well-enough to offset any extra power. AFAIK, C & D is one of the few rags which actually does its own testing. Their 'street start' 5-60, which is how owners would likely launch them, unless showing off, was 5.7 seconds, which jibes with the 5.3 0-60. If, when launching for lowest times, you don't smell several expensive things burning, you're not doing it right.
i just read that article too, and it was quite favorable. only thing they noticed wrong with the test car were a misaligned hood and front door. but it was pre-production so let's hope DC gets these things literally straight on the production models...!
Honestly, I don't think there is a merger (takeover, whatever you wanna call it) *I* could have been happier about, even back when it happened. I've always found MB's to be near bullet-proof, the older ones, at least, and I've been a MOPAR guy since I was a kid. Now, I can afford my cake and eat it, too!
Before now, I'd lusted after an E-class to replace the Intrepid, but now, the 300C gets the nod...gets it *easily*. Plus, because it's on the last generation E-class' suspension coupled to the Mercedes 5-speed auto, well, I'm near giddy.
Granted, I'm a gearhead, so automobiles can do this to me. ;-)
If only they would offer a big, AMG'ed turbo-diesel in the 300C, I'd be even happier. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.
Not only this, and I was unaware before I purchased it, but the '99 Bounder Diesel motorhome we bought a couple of years back is essentially a DC 'product', on a Freightliner chassis, so I'm even happier!
Checked the chrysler website and found some local dealers that had the 300C's listed in their "new inventory" Saddled up, cruised down there only to find out "there was a mistake, they're not in yet but are showing on our inventory". Darn, got my hopes up. Sales nerd says should be any day now (I've been hearing that for a couple of months). I saw the Jade on a Sebring, looks really nice almost silver in certain lighting.
Here's another 300C/Magnum review. Interesting comparison "more front and rear legroom than a BMW 7 Series".
No, I don't know anything you don't. My previous post (#1061) just reflects my take on the way the dealer and company have been vague on the manufacture and delivery dates.
Despite receiving eight or nine letters from Chrysler telling me I'd receive more information about the 300 in March, I received nothing from them. I dropped by my local dealer today to ask about Premier Night (04/22) and was handed an invitation to attend. I believe you can get into the event without an invitation, but an invitation gets you a silver coin at the event. I'll guess the coin is only worth $1.00, but the invitation alone is worth more than that to me. They also received their first 300 today. It was a Touring model and was supposedly sold in less than an hour...
I just HATE to brag about it, but I just happen to have a pristine '67 Fury III 2 dr hdtp in my garage with a mirror quality paint job. If anybody wants to see what one of these classics looks like in better-than-new condition, just email steve577 at chartermi.net and I'll send you a 1967 Plymouth pic that will temporarily take your mind off the 300C.
I stopped by a bookstore today hoping to find the May issue of Car & Driver, but instead found the May issue of Road & Track with a very nice review of the 300C. They state that "the ride quality is impressive, with springing on the comfort side, but enough shock control to give a locked-down, planted feel with little sense of wallow or float." They report 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, 69dBA at 70MPH, .79 g on a 200' skidpad, 60 to 0 in 126' and 80 to 0 in 227'.
i drove through the local chryco lot tnt after bowling...they had a midnight blue 300c sitting out back...with a sold sign on it!! i have a feeling chrysler is going to have absolutely no trouble selling this car!
I can't see Dodge putting the name Charger R /T on a 4-door family sedan. Polara or Monaco perhaps, but not Charger R/T.
Today looks like a nice day to call my dealer and see if my car's been at least put on a list for shipping. We only have two weeks left for the wing-ding.
I'm taken by the new 300M. The new 300 Hemi is going to be parked in my garage soon. I test drove the Tour and Hemi C. The C catches you by the seat of your pants when it takes off. I like the ride and the loaded options.
Have not been a fan of Chrysler. So new cannot find any road test, any links?
That photo in Automobile was just a PhotoShop job; they simply grafted a Magnum front end onto a 300 body. Chrysler has not shown any pictures of the Charger, so Automobile's picture is just speculation. Chrysler reps have said that the Charger will have a unique, "very sporty" look.
My dealer said that my car is "on it's way"....Going to drag the old lady down there after work to see one in reality, as they have a 300 something on the showroom floor. I'll find out when to do the financing too. I hope they offer 0% rates, that would be nice.
Up until yesterday the 300 had only been a whisper in my ear. Then I pulled up this website, and by some magical mishap, my eyes caught the banner. By yesterday evening, I was spaming everyone I knew with emails and IM's, trying to get them to see the wondrous uber-coolness that I had been witness to.
My first reaction was, "a Chrysler? OMG a hemi?" After the initial stun wore off, I started reading some reviews, and was totally taken back by the repetitiveness of each and every review. Minus the one bad review, the general consensus was like hearing the roar of a crowd at a concert, begging to hear just one more song. I spent the next day and a half ravenously searching for anything and everything 300. I must have gone to DC's website 10 times to build my. car. Each time I drifted into my imagination, where I was dropping long black patches in front of other unsuspecting vehicles, laughing as I did so.
Then it happened......like some quasi sonic boom. As I was trying to explain my level of intrigue to my wife, she sent me a message stating, "how about we buy one after you graduate". Was this a prank? A misunderstanding? Did my wife just tell me that we'd be getting a vehicle that has had a greater emotional effect on me than any other car in my life? COOL! But as things happen, she will probably not go for the loaded 300C as I would. This will take some convincing.
When I wake the next morning, with Edmunds at my side, I’m delirious with uncertainty, wondering, if every other posting will be like my first.
A few local south FL dealers by me have a few 300's in. They are not selling them, or giving test drives. They were told they can't do anything until after the "opening night" thing DC is doing.
I would love for Dodge to produce that Charger concept that debuted a few years ago at one of the auto shows. I think it's great looking. Unfortunately, I have no idea whether or not the production model will look anything like that concept. All I know is that Chrysler reps have said that the new Charger will be very sporty looking, and that future Dodges and Chryslers will not be cookie-cutter designs differentiated only by front and rear fascias. The photo shown in Automobile seems to contradict both of those claims, and that's why I don't believe it is real.
less than two hours ago. Pulled into a dealership and lucky me, they had a dark blue 300C and the salesman handed me the keys and said "have fun"!
So I took it on some backroads and a short stretch of Rt. 95 in Eastern MA. Once settled in (very roomy ; I'm 6'3" and er, heavy!) I was impressed by the quality of the leather, the fit and finish, and the overall terrific ergonmomics and controls. As I pulled away from the dealership I was impressed by the heavy feel and the quietness.
Exterior: Much better looking in person than in the photos. Also this dark blue is a medium dark royal blue, not at all like the navy blue in the website or even in the brochure they gave me. I think it's one of the prettiest blue paint jobs I've seen.
Interior: Roomy, comfortable, luxurious.
Drive Train: Hemi is very strong! From a standstill it really pushes you into the seat instantly. From 50-80 mph there is a slight lag as the tranny downshifts but if you do the downshift manually first, then the blastoff is immediate.
Ride and Handling: I was somewhat disappointed. Seeing all the hype about this part of it borrowing much from the E-class I was expecting much more. Cornering is good but the suspension definitely shudders over bumpy roads. And there is a noticeable thumping noise also. THe steering is also a little too "jiggly" for me. Even small bunps make the steering wheel jiggle side to side. This may be due to the high boost of the power steering. All in all, the R&H remind me more of your typical American cars from the 80's..
Caveat: I have owned an E320 for the last 6 years therefore all my comments are from the perspective of being used to the MB ride and handling. My E320, even with fairly new sport (firm) shocks rides and handles much better then the 300C.
Saleman told me that they have had this car since last Saturday and they had lines out the door with folks waiting to test drive it. He said they have already taken over 50 orders, most at a couple grand over sticker. He also mentioned they sold their first 4 PT Cruiser convertibles at $3000 over sticker.. I'm going to wait and drive the Touring model to see if the ride and handling feel any different and then..... ??
You make an excellent point with your comments on my comparison of the GTO vs. 300C.
Here's the thing though: I've had my '97 Avenger ES for more than 7 years, and I want a new &%$# car! I've been a good boy and saved my money.
The second thing, is that, while the GTO and the 300M seem like totally different cars, I'm cross-shopping the cars that APPEAL to me most. One of my criteria is that I want a V8, although I may still drive the Acura TL.
Your suggestion to wait until the Charger comes out is a good one, because I'd love to get a two-door coupe with a 6-speed manual transmission (are you listening Chrysler?), but the DC folks have been promising this car for years and nothing has happened. And I will NOT buy a four-door Charger (as the concept was). That's just silly, and I hope they forget that idea completely. (What I really need is a '69 Hemi Charger with a 4-speed, but I don't have $75,000.)
As I've mentioned in my previous posts, the GTO is more my kind of car, but the Chrysler seems like a better value. Plus, I'm concerned that the Goat's mixed acceptance by the public may result in poor resale value.
By the way, Sooz, congrats on the expected delivery of your new baby... that is, your new 300. Which model is it?
Trust me; you don't want a '69 Hemi Charger as a daily driver. I used to work on those beasts and I've got to tell you, that engine was positively diabolical to keep in top tune. The old Hemi powered cars were one of the few American cars that required the legendary "Italian Tune-up", you know, pick any old side street, and take it up to about 100 in second gear. Make sure to check the rear view mirror for that big plume of black smoke as the carbon cleared. ;-)
What with modern electronics and fuel, I suspect that the new Hemi will be a model of civility, except of course, when the driver says otherwise. ;-)
Dale wrote: Now "define on its way". Crispiegee asked: Which model is it?
Well, the salesman said it'll be here "next week". We'll surely see, I guess. We bought a Hemi C in Cool White. The dealership had a 300 Touring, in Magnesium. It looks a lot brighter in real life than what's seen in pics. Still though, not my type of color. I had the wife sit in the driver's seat, as she's only 5'1", and we adjusted the seat and steering wheel which was manually adjustable. It's a good thing I ordered the power pedals as she definitely needs it. This model didn't have it. I sat on the passenger side, and two aspects became quite clear immediately. First, the leather seat was comfortable, but not as "cushy" as the suade seats on my Lebaron. Secondly, the depth of the dash was striking. It's about double the depth of the LeBaron, but certainly not outrageous like on some vehicles. I looked in the trunk real quick, saw the battery that's on the right side, but I thought the spare tire was to be mounted at an angle. This one was simply laying flat in the trunkwell, left of the battery. I'll go out there next time with a tape measure, and see for myself. The tire seemed "already" inflated, and when viewed, it was the steel rim that seemed overwhelming. The door handles are different, as they pull open from the left. It seems like it's put together well. The wife couldn't get over the radical size of the tires, and these were the 17".
To Dale: This Touring had the Royal Leather, the one that's smooth, no wrinkle lines. I guess we'll have to see what comes in our two vehicles.....the Torino leather then????
According to Chrysler's site the C's are supposed to get the Torino (pebbled) leather and everything else the Royal (smooth) leather. I saw a Touring model yesterday with Torino and have been told that others have seen Royal in a C, so it appears that you'll have a 50/50 chance of getting one or the other. I haven't compared them side-by-side yet, but I have been told by a few people that the Torino version is supposed to be much nicer...
I have seen cars on dealer lots with overinflated tire pressures (40+ psi) and uneven tire pressures. Judging the car's ride / handling based of a test drive of such a car would not be a good idea - as tires and suspensions can be quite sensitive to tire pressure variations. - Ray Once had a new car delivered with 40+ psi in the fronts - and 28 psi in the rears . . .
My 300M just hit the 80K mile mark and I am getting the bug. While my car was being services I saw the 300 Hemi $ 38K plus.Salesman said can have a car ( limited) in a week at full list. Does Chrysler believe they can replace their entire line of large cars and hold the price espically once they satisfy all the enthusiast who want the monster V8. GM and Ford will keep the pressure on with wild discounts and rebates.Chrysler may think they are now upscale but the fact is their customer base is basically blue collar and that isn't going to change.It's a nice car to my eye and I might pay but the broad Chryslercustomer won't, look at the Pacifica dealers near me offer at invoice and Chrysler throws in a rebate I bet by midsummer there will be deals galore.
the sticker on the 300C I drove and the salesman would have sold it to me on the spot for sticker price. He admitted that they are trying to get more than sticker but he could tell I wasn't the type to pay over sticker; and I won't pay sticker either.. But I didn't tell him that. I'd rather wait and pay $1-2K less..
I am familiar with carbon build up in the old hemi engines, and it is undoubtedly the reason Chrysler fitted the new engine with twin spark plugs. My dad told me that he used to have to blow the carbon out of his '53 New York (331 hemi), although I was previously unfamiliar with the term "Italian tune-up." That's funny!
(By the way, I was only kidding about an old hemi as a daily driver.)
Has anyone seen the 300 in the MAGNESIUM color in person? I'd like to get a charcoal grey car, but the magnesium that they've offered seems to have a tint of military green to it. Yuck. Can anyone confirm this?
Just got my first closeup view at my dealership yesterday (Post #1110) of a 300 Touring in Magnesium. It's okay, but not my choice of color for this type of vehicle. It was, however, better looking in real-life than viewed on the net, or in the catalog too. I used the term "brighter" when I wrote yesterday's post, but don't get that word confused with "brilliant", which it certainly isn't. Judging by the catalog and the 300 webpage, one gets the idea that Mopar is really pushing this color. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", so they say, Crispiegee. If that's the color you like, thats what's important. In my case, I pictured a nice red one in my mind, until I found out that red wasn't available (Lava Red, which is offered, is almost black) so I simply let the wife pick out a color (real poor selection of choices too), and she settled on the Cool Vanilla". I can live with that.
There was an article done a while back that stated that a ZF transmission would've probably shaved a full second off the M's 0-60 time. That would've put it at low-to-mid 6 seconds. Plenty fast to outrun a 5-series (including the 540i Sport). Also, it was reported a couple years back that the cost of the ZF transmission and the weakness of the 42LE are the things that prevented my beloved Special from having 300HP. Just imagine it... 300HP and a ZF transmission would've put the Special in the mid 5 second range. Plenty enough to run with and probably beat the new C.
I finally got a copy of the Car and Driver and was looking through the article when I noticed a bubble above the picture of the chassis mentioning that an SRT version is coming out next year. Does anyone have any info on this proposed tuner version. Will it have a 6.2L engine, perhaps a turbo/super charger of some sort. Maybe even (gasp) a manual transmission! I have goosebumps. I can envision 0-60s in mid 4's. Loving the notion of blowing the doors off of some of the Bimmers that litter the Boston landscape.
Got a call from the local dealership here in GA that they had received 3 300's (2-Limited's & one C). By the time I got to the dealership, two hours later, the C had been sold. Some guy traded in a 350Z for the Cool Vanilla color model. Front end of the 300 is MUCH better looking in person ... very impressed. Not sure if I was that impressed in the overall interior materials though. Maybe I was expecting something a lot more with all the hype. The steering wheel controls (Limited model) appeared and felt like plastic material. The center stack also had the same "aluminum" look, but had very tiny "black dots" all over it. The only thing I could think of is that it was to protect the driver against possible glare. It didn't look bad ... just didn't see any of that detail on the web etc. This was also the first time that I noticed a difference in tail light setup between models, and now I'm undecided between which headlight setup I like better between the 300 & C. The brochure has the C as the winner, but in person??? The limited didn't have any under-truck-lid covering, but I was told that the C would. You can really feel the 300's weight when driving, and for me that felt great! This was the first vehicle that I didn't feel like punching the pedal all the time. I just felt like cruising the whole time. I must say, it was so refreshing to be able to look down the hood of this car too. Highway driving was pin-drop silent too, but the glass did appear to allow more sound in than what I am use too. The engine was very capable on the Limited too. This was the Magnesium color model, which I didn't really like too much. The Vanilla was not all that great either. The last one they had, but was still being serviced, was the Jade. Never did see it in the sunlight, but in the shop was so far the best color. The dealer drove me to see the same color in the sun, but on a Van. I don't think that helped me much ... LOL. I can only pray that Chrysler can somehow add the Mineral Gray that the Magnum has. Now that is a color that would match against the wheels & tin.
Sooz - I agree: I'll just have to see the colors in person.
As far as the color choices being limited, I find that to be true on most cars. Nowadays you have a choice of eight colors, whereas in the seventies, you had double that. Usually you could get white, off-white, beige, tan, brown, black, red, lt green, dk green, grey, yellow, lt blue, dk blue and sometimes even medium blue.
Barney, all the reports I have read said that the &$%# Germans have decided that Chrysler will not have any manual transmissions any time soon. This is what I hate about the merger: The upper management (all German) dictates what Chrysler can build, and it can never compete with the sacred Benz offerings. Of course, they certainly don't mind charging Chrysler steep royalties for the mandated use of Mercedes parts and technology!
While traveling back to my home in southern Wisconsin yesterday afternoon, I made a stop-off at a Chrysler dealer in Stevens Point (about in the middle of the state) on a whim to see whether they had any new 300s. Lo and behold, they had JUST taken delivery of their first two about an hour or so before I arrived, a 300 Touring with the 3.5, and a 300C. After looking at the silver C with a salesman and sitting in it for a couple minutes, we decided to take it for a spin. The salesman had not driven it yet. In fact, no one at the dealership had test driven it yet, according to him.
I am by no means a gearhead or autophile. I know what I like and if you don't agree I could care less because I'M the one that has to sit in the car for 25,000 miles a year, not you. I am 6'4, a donut shy of 250 and have a 34" inseam. Currently, I drive a 1998 Volvo S70 T5 manual which has 113k, runs great and is extremely comfortable (no one makes better seats than the Swedes - Volvo and SAAB - hopefully Ford and GM will learn from them, not cheap out and put their cookie-cutter seats in Volvos and SAABs). I'm a private pilot, too, so I keep my old 1992 Pontiac Bonneville with over 200k on it at an airport near my cabin. It still runs well and I've always loved the room in front (no console - 60/40 split bench) and it never got less than 28 on the highway - can't complain about that number for such a big car.
Over the past 6 months or so I have been investigating different models to replace the Volvo. Cars I have considered and test-driven include the Acura TL (new one), Infiniti G35 (RWD and AWD), Cadillac CTS, Nissan Maxima and BMW 325i. The G35 appealed to me the most, especially after they introduced the x with AWD. However, none of the above intrigued me enough to pull the trigger, in part because I never felt any of them were big enough to be comfortable for me over 25,000 miles/year.
Enter the 2005 Chrysler 300C.
Exterior: I like it, definitely distinct. There are no other cars on the road quite like it, in my opinion. Fit and finish are very good - perhaps the best I've seen in a domestic vehicle and on par with VW Passat or BMW 3-series. The only gripe I might have are the apparently no-option chrome wheels on the C. Sometimes it's better to be understated. DC should allow their customers the option to fit their Cs with either a typical alloy sheen wheel or the chrome.
Interior: Roomy. It's not a Maybach - but THIS is a 25,000 mile/year car. If DC makes a police version of the Magnum (read: sedan), I am sure they will have to ditch the console so I wonder whether Chrysler will ever offer that set-up in the 300C? If so, it will make a roomy front seat even more so. The interior finishes have a look and feel on par with the VW Passat and 325s. Higher quality and softish dash board materials. The sort of brushed aluminum/chromish look for the center pod is classy without being gaudy. All the controls were logical and well-placed. The leather on the front seats was OK, but I did notice that they did not wrap the bottom side of the passenger seat in leather/faux leather - it was a carpet-like fabric. I have read in a couple reviews that the writers liked the Touring edition leather better than the C leather, I will be interested to see and feel the difference (apparently, they use a different grade in the Touring). The front seats themselves were comfortable, although not up to par with the seat in my Volvo. There is a manual lumbar support adjustment lever about mid-level on the side of the seat, but it did not seem there was much change in how the seat felt against my back from one end of the setting lever to the opposite.
With the seat all the way back horizontally, all the way up vertically, rear portion of the lower section down a bit and the seat back somewhat erect, I had a bit of clearance under the moonroof. I wonder how much headroom the moonroof eliminates? My guess was probably as much as 3 inches - significant for me.
While I did not actually sit in the back seat, it appeared to offer good leg and knee room, even with the front seats all the way back. Due to the transmission/exhaust hump, no one except a smaller child with short legs would be comfortable in the middle of the rear seat.
Trunk was reasonable size. You could probably get four carry-size golf bags in there, along with four small duffel bags. Didn't look closely for the battery, although I understand it's in there somewhere. Both sides of the rear seats fold down for pass-through. Gas struts on each side of the trunk.
DRIVING THE 300C: Contrary to others who have posted their opinions on visibility, I thought it was good. Knowing how to properly use your mirrors helps, of course, but I thought the blind-spot visibility was OK, as well as most other views out of the car. My being 6'4 with the seat up almost all the way was likely a helpful factor, too.
The Hemi is an incredibly powerful engine. Wow. We did a 0-60 test but it was sort of unique because I put the car in auto-stick mode without realizing I had done so. Therefore, when I slammed on the gas, the transimssion didn't shift from first until the rev-limiter did so, and by the time I was doing 60 it was only in SECOND gear. EASILY less than 6 seconds this way, and that was going around an easy curve on a freeway on-ramp. We didn't test the fully automatic mode for 0-60. Suffice to say, there's WAY more power than you'll ever need for typical driving conditions.
You cannot discern when the engine goes from 8 to 4 cylinders once you're at cruise speed. The only apparent indication is the the instant MPG goes up a bit. While cruising and then hitting the gas to pass, for instance, there is an almost imperceptible pause - likely the engine going from 4 to 8 cylinders - but it's nothing different than any other automatic. The engine is quiet, smooth and does not have that tinny growl the G35 had, for instance.
Interior and wind noise were minimal. It was fairly windy yesterday, with a constant breeze of about 10-15 knots. We drove into, perpindicular and with the wind without I did not notice anything distinct at any angle. It's not as quiet as a Lexus, for instance, but it definitely quieter than the G35, my Volvo and the BMW 3-series.
Finally, handling. Good, I thought, but I did not really push it hard because I had the salesman with me. More road feel through the steering than I thought I would get in such a big car. I did manage to squeak the tires a bit in a left turn while accelerating away from a stop sign at the bottom of the off-ramp. Automatic transmission shifts were almost imperceptible - best I've experienced in an American car. DC using the E-series transmission, drivetrain and suspension (albeit not the forged alloy version found in the E from which it's derived) will pay great benefits.
I'm surprised you are able to fit into the TL and the G35. I'm 6' 3.5" and had to give up on them due to the mandatory moonroof leaving me with less headroom than necessary to avoid contact going over road dips. I do fit into the Maxima with the Skyview roof, but can't get over the "hippo" looks as suggested by another Townhall Member. I forgot to point out that the 300C I drove had a moonroof and I found I was able to adjust the seat to where I was comfortable and still had sufficient headroom to avoid cranium bruising.
I agree with your assessment of the 4/8 cylinder switch; it's not noticeable.. And the tranny is a smooth shifting son of a gun..
I didn't see any comment from you on the ride and steering. Did you feel any of the twitchies/jigglies that I sensed in both? Maybe it is just a case of rock hard tires as someone else suggested. I'll be looking for and driving a Limited in the next few days to see if there is a difference in the supension/steering.
With respect to the ride/handling, I do not think the drive we did would have produced a fair assessment because I think one of the tires may have been under/over inflated (remember, the car had been delivered less than an hour before I arrived, although you would think that proper tire inflation is one of the basic things they check before allowing the car to be driven).
Generally, I thought the ride was very good, especially at cruise (which matters the most to me). Over rougher pavement, I agree there may be more road feel-steering wheel jiggle transmitted through than you might expect for a 4000 pound car. On the other hand, it may be that we Americans have gotten used to NOT having good road feel compared to our European (read: Mercedes) brethren. Overall though, I don't think I should give a final opinion on the ride/handling until I have a chance to drive another C and/or Touring which I know is properly set up.
One other observation I forgot to post earlier was the fact that my salesman told me DC had done NO training with their sales force on this vehicle - I mean the guy or woman who is lurking in the windows of the dealership to descend on you the moment you get out of your car. While the 2005 300 is a very intriguing, attractive and seemingly well-built vehicle, as well as a pretty good value, those factors alone don't sell these cars. I KNEW MORE ABOUT THE CAR THAN THE SALESMAN DID. FAR MORE. While he was a pretty nice guy, it was kinda pathetic in a way because my interest in cars is sort of a necessary hobby (because I want to replace the Volvo), not my living. But in the end, it's not the salesperson's fault that DC apparently doesn't expend much on training (or maybe it's just the dealership - who knows?).
Well-informed and properly trained salespeople who help inspire an emotional connection with the car through an excellent knowledge of the details of their product gets customers to the negotiating table and ultimately sells these cars. In my experience, Acura, Inifniti, BMW, SAAB and Toyota salespeople seem to be the best informed about the details of their product and how it compares to their competition. I hope DC starts to realize that while they're now apparently able to compete with the aforementioned on product, getting their people trained well to SELL the product is what will increase their market share in the end.
Comments
The Base gets the 2.7, the Touring and Limited get the 3.5 and well, you know what gets what. I feel like the Base exists to allow Chrysler to advertise a low base/entry price of somewhere in the 23-25k range for people shopping somewhat higher end mid-sized cars. AFAICT, the Touring/Limited are basically the same car with one having more stuff standard (perhaps Dale or soozpk could tell us more detail?).
The HemiC not only adds the engine, but I think it's also the only model with 18s, the tortoise shell accents, etc. This car basically has to be a workhorse of sorts for Chrysler--although for an entry-level car, I don't think anything is wrong with the Sebring, especially with the V6--so that is probably why it's all over the board.
Thanks. I originally thought that there were only three models.
fastdriver
I still have to drive the GTO and the Chrysler (as soon as the dealer gets some). That will help me decide.
I see that Chrysler is doing a Sportwagon version of the 300C for non-North American markets called the 300C Touring. I so much prefer the look of this car (the grill, the lights, the interior dash, the bias towards luxury over sport) over the Magnum.
Why oh why, are Chrysler not selling the sportwagon here in the US? It sounds like it could beat our Audi hands down with regard to engine performance, suspension feel, load capacity, acceptable level of luxury etc etc.
I would wait for the AWD version, but really will need to buy something by winter. We'll consider the Dodge, but would prefer the Chrysler. Otherwise, we'll probably end up with a used Audi A6 for similar money...
Any body think that Chrysler may do a U-turn and release the 300C as a wagon?
Kerry
crispiegee, You shouldn't be comparing the new GTO to the Hemi C. You want more bang for the buck, wait for the Charger R/T to come out. The Hemi C, as much as one views it as a quick car, it's still a family sedan. You want to be "King of the Street", wait for Dodge to do it's thing with the Charger.
Checked my dealer today while having my M serviced. [Window motor finally kaput at 5.75 years--outlasted the suggested TSB changeover by at least 3 years] No 300C's or Magnums yet, and they were worried about not having one for the Premier on the 22nd. I told em not to worry, marketing couldn't have screwed up the premier that badly-not having any of the vehicles for the guests to drool over.
HA! Parents bought a Fury III wagon - dark brown (?) with every accessory available. Towed a big trailer everywhere with it.
I drove it to high school a couple of times. 383 2-bbl.
- Ray
VERY surprised by the power front disk brakes the first couple of times . . .
Mary J. Blige drives a silver 300C in her new video "It's a Wrap." Is the C going to replace the S-Class and 745 as the sedan of choice for stars? lol
I can't wait to see a couple, in person. Plus, the color of the car pictured in the article is right up my alley. Just love silver vehicles...dunno why. Easy to have them not be constantly dirty-looking.
Oh, and while it was pre-production, I'd bet it's been thrashed well-enough to offset any extra power. AFAIK, C & D is one of the few rags which actually does its own testing. Their 'street start' 5-60, which is how owners would likely launch them, unless showing off, was 5.7 seconds, which jibes with the 5.3 0-60. If, when launching for lowest times, you don't smell several expensive things burning, you're not doing it right.
;-)
Before now, I'd lusted after an E-class to replace the Intrepid, but now, the 300C gets the nod...gets it *easily*. Plus, because it's on the last generation E-class' suspension coupled to the Mercedes 5-speed auto, well, I'm near giddy.
Granted, I'm a gearhead, so automobiles can do this to me. ;-)
If only they would offer a big, AMG'ed turbo-diesel in the 300C, I'd be even happier. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen.
Not only this, and I was unaware before I purchased it, but the '99 Bounder Diesel motorhome we bought a couple of years back is essentially a DC 'product', on a Freightliner chassis, so I'm even happier!
Here's another 300C/Magnum review. Interesting comparison "more front and rear legroom than a BMW 7 Series".
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/L- ayout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1078441809927&call_- pageid=970599119419
stephen
perhaps, but not Charger R/T.
Today looks like a nice day to call my dealer and see if my car's been at least put on a list for shipping. We only have two weeks left for the wing-ding.
the Tour and Hemi C. The C catches you by the seat of your pants when it takes off. I like the ride and the loaded options.
Have not been a fan of Chrysler. So new cannot find any road test, any links?
-- Mark
Is this the CHARGER you're talking about?
http://www.geocities.com/fastdriver2_99/charger.html
fastdriver
My first reaction was, "a Chrysler? OMG a hemi?" After the initial stun wore off, I started reading some reviews, and was totally taken back by the repetitiveness of each and every review. Minus the one bad review, the general consensus was like hearing the roar of a crowd at a concert, begging to hear just one more song. I spent the next day and a half ravenously searching for anything and everything 300. I must have gone to DC's website 10 times to build my. car. Each time I drifted into my imagination, where I was dropping long black patches in front of other unsuspecting vehicles, laughing as I did so.
Then it happened......like some quasi sonic boom. As I was trying to explain my level of intrigue to my wife, she sent me a message stating, "how about we buy one after you graduate". Was this a prank? A misunderstanding? Did my wife just tell me that we'd be getting a vehicle that has had a greater emotional effect on me than any other car in my life? COOL! But as things happen, she will probably not go for the loaded 300C as I would. This will take some convincing.
When I wake the next morning, with Edmunds at my side, I’m delirious with uncertainty, wondering, if every other posting will be like my first.
Matches
Hope I get a similar notice soon.
-- Mark
So I took it on some backroads and a short stretch of Rt. 95 in Eastern MA. Once settled in (very roomy ; I'm 6'3" and er, heavy!) I was impressed by the quality of the leather, the fit and finish, and the overall terrific ergonmomics and controls. As I pulled away from the dealership I was impressed by the heavy feel and the quietness.
Exterior: Much better looking in person than in the photos. Also this dark blue is a medium dark royal blue, not at all like the navy blue in the website or even in the brochure they gave me. I think it's one of the prettiest blue paint jobs I've seen.
Interior: Roomy, comfortable, luxurious.
Drive Train: Hemi is very strong! From a standstill it really pushes you into the seat instantly. From 50-80 mph there is a slight lag as the tranny downshifts but if you do the downshift manually first, then the blastoff is immediate.
Ride and Handling: I was somewhat disappointed. Seeing all the hype about this part of it borrowing much from the E-class I was expecting much more. Cornering is good but the suspension definitely shudders over bumpy roads. And there is a noticeable thumping noise also. THe steering is also a little too "jiggly" for me. Even small bunps make the steering wheel jiggle side to side. This may be due to the high boost of the power steering. All in all, the R&H remind me more of your typical American cars from the 80's..
Caveat: I have owned an E320 for the last 6 years therefore all my comments are from the perspective of being used to the MB ride and handling. My E320, even with fairly new sport (firm) shocks rides and handles much better then the 300C.
Saleman told me that they have had this car since last Saturday and they had lines out the door with folks waiting to test drive it. He said they have already taken over 50 orders, most at a couple grand over sticker. He also mentioned they sold their first 4 PT Cruiser convertibles at $3000 over sticker.. I'm going to wait and drive the Touring model to see if the ride and handling feel any different and then..... ??
You make an excellent point with your comments on my comparison of the GTO vs. 300C.
Here's the thing though: I've had my '97 Avenger ES for more than 7 years, and I want a new &%$# car! I've been a good boy and saved my money.
The second thing, is that, while the GTO and the 300M seem like totally different cars, I'm cross-shopping the cars that APPEAL to me most. One of my criteria is that I want a V8, although I may still drive the Acura TL.
Your suggestion to wait until the Charger comes out is a good one, because I'd love to get a two-door coupe with a 6-speed manual transmission (are you listening Chrysler?), but the DC folks have been promising this car for years and nothing has happened. And I will NOT buy a four-door Charger (as the concept was). That's just silly, and I hope they forget that idea completely. (What I really need is a '69 Hemi Charger with a 4-speed, but I don't have $75,000.)
As I've mentioned in my previous posts, the GTO is more my kind of car, but the Chrysler seems like a better value. Plus, I'm concerned that the Goat's mixed acceptance by the public may result in poor resale value.
By the way, Sooz, congrats on the expected delivery of your new baby... that is, your new 300. Which model is it?
What with modern electronics and fuel, I suspect that the new Hemi will be a model of civility, except of course, when the driver says otherwise. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Crispiegee asked: Which model is it?
Well, the salesman said it'll be here "next week". We'll surely see, I guess.
We bought a Hemi C in Cool White. The dealership had a 300 Touring, in Magnesium. It looks a lot brighter in real life than what's seen in pics. Still though, not my type of color. I had the wife sit in the driver's seat, as she's only 5'1", and we adjusted the seat and steering wheel which was manually adjustable. It's a good thing I ordered the power pedals as she definitely needs it. This model didn't have it. I sat on the passenger side, and two aspects became quite clear immediately. First, the leather seat was comfortable, but not as "cushy" as the suade seats on my Lebaron. Secondly, the depth of the dash was striking. It's about double the depth of the LeBaron, but certainly not outrageous like on some vehicles. I looked in the trunk real quick, saw the battery that's on the right side, but I thought the spare tire was to be mounted at an angle. This one was simply laying flat in the trunkwell, left of the battery. I'll go out there next time with a tape measure, and see for myself. The tire seemed "already" inflated, and when viewed, it was the steel rim that seemed overwhelming. The door handles are different, as they pull open from the left. It seems like it's put together well. The wife couldn't get over the radical size of the tires, and these were the 17".
To Dale: This Touring had the Royal Leather, the one that's smooth, no wrinkle lines. I guess we'll have to see what comes in our two vehicles.....the Torino leather then????
Dave
- Ray
Once had a new car delivered with 40+ psi in the fronts - and 28 psi in the rears . . .
Thanks.
1) Drive and look at the car, maybe even rent one, to be sure you like it;
2) Calculate the invoice with the car equipped as you want it using Edmunds; then,
3) Send letters to the fleet / internet sales person at several dealers detailing the car you want, and ask for bids.
I pay cash for cars, and find that it helps to tell the dealers if you will be paying cash.
(By the way, I was only kidding about an old hemi as a daily driver.)
Has anyone seen the 300 in the MAGNESIUM color in person? I'd like to get a charcoal grey car, but the magnesium that they've offered seems to have a tint of military green to it. Yuck. Can anyone confirm this?
My second choice is blue.
There was an article done a while back that stated that a ZF transmission would've probably shaved a full second off the M's 0-60 time. That would've put it at low-to-mid 6 seconds. Plenty fast to outrun a 5-series (including the 540i Sport). Also, it was reported a couple years back that the cost of the ZF transmission and the weakness of the 42LE are the things that prevented my beloved Special from having 300HP. Just imagine it... 300HP and a ZF transmission would've put the Special in the mid 5 second range. Plenty enough to run with and probably beat the new C.
As far as the color choices being limited, I find that to be true on most cars. Nowadays you have a choice of eight colors, whereas in the seventies, you had double that. Usually you could get white, off-white, beige, tan, brown, black, red, lt green, dk green, grey, yellow, lt blue, dk blue and sometimes even medium blue.
Barney, all the reports I have read said that the &$%# Germans have decided that Chrysler will not have any manual transmissions any time soon. This is what I hate about the merger: The upper management (all German) dictates what Chrysler can build, and it can never compete with the sacred Benz offerings. Of course, they certainly don't mind charging Chrysler steep royalties for the mandated use of Mercedes parts and technology!
I am by no means a gearhead or autophile. I know what I like and if you don't agree I could care less because I'M the one that has to sit in the car for 25,000 miles a year, not you.
Over the past 6 months or so I have been investigating different models to replace the Volvo. Cars I have considered and test-driven include the Acura TL (new one), Infiniti G35 (RWD and AWD), Cadillac CTS, Nissan Maxima and BMW 325i. The G35 appealed to me the most, especially after they introduced the x with AWD. However, none of the above intrigued me enough to pull the trigger, in part because I never felt any of them were big enough to be comfortable for me over 25,000 miles/year.
Enter the 2005 Chrysler 300C.
Exterior: I like it, definitely distinct. There are no other cars on the road quite like it, in my opinion. Fit and finish are very good - perhaps the best I've seen in a domestic vehicle and on par with VW Passat or BMW 3-series. The only gripe I might have are the apparently no-option chrome wheels on the C. Sometimes it's better to be understated. DC should allow their customers the option to fit their Cs with either a typical alloy sheen wheel or the chrome.
Interior: Roomy. It's not a Maybach - but THIS is a 25,000 mile/year car. If DC makes a police version of the Magnum (read: sedan), I am sure they will have to ditch the console so I wonder whether Chrysler will ever offer that set-up in the 300C? If so, it will make a roomy front seat even more so. The interior finishes have a look and feel on par with the VW Passat and 325s. Higher quality and softish dash board materials. The sort of brushed aluminum/chromish look for the center pod is classy without being gaudy. All the controls were logical and well-placed. The leather on the front seats was OK, but I did notice that they did not wrap the bottom side of the passenger seat in leather/faux leather - it was a carpet-like fabric. I have read in a couple reviews that the writers liked the Touring edition leather better than the C leather, I will be interested to see and feel the difference (apparently, they use a different grade in the Touring). The front seats themselves were comfortable, although not up to par with the seat in my Volvo. There is a manual lumbar support adjustment lever about mid-level on the side of the seat, but it did not seem there was much change in how the seat felt against my back from one end of the setting lever to the opposite.
With the seat all the way back horizontally, all the way up vertically, rear portion of the lower section down a bit and the seat back somewhat erect, I had a bit of clearance under the moonroof. I wonder how much headroom the moonroof eliminates? My guess was probably as much as 3 inches - significant for me.
While I did not actually sit in the back seat, it appeared to offer good leg and knee room, even with the front seats all the way back. Due to the transmission/exhaust hump, no one except a smaller child with short legs would be comfortable in the middle of the rear seat.
Trunk was reasonable size. You could probably get four carry-size golf bags in there, along with four small duffel bags. Didn't look closely for the battery, although I understand it's in there somewhere. Both sides of the rear seats fold down for pass-through. Gas struts on each side of the trunk.
DRIVING THE 300C: Contrary to others who have posted their opinions on visibility, I thought it was good. Knowing how to properly use your mirrors helps, of course, but I thought the blind-spot visibility was OK, as well as most other views out of the car. My being 6'4 with the seat up almost all the way was likely a helpful factor, too.
The Hemi is an incredibly powerful engine. Wow. We did a 0-60 test but it was sort of unique because I put the car in auto-stick mode without realizing I had done so. Therefore, when I slammed on the gas, the transimssion didn't shift from first until the rev-limiter did so, and by the time I was doing 60 it was only in SECOND gear. EASILY less than 6 seconds this way, and that was going around an easy curve on a freeway on-ramp. We didn't test the fully automatic mode for 0-60. Suffice to say, there's WAY more power than you'll ever need for typical driving conditions.
You cannot discern when the engine goes from 8 to 4 cylinders once you're at cruise speed. The only apparent indication is the the instant MPG goes up a bit. While cruising and then hitting the gas to pass, for instance, there is an almost imperceptible pause - likely the engine going from 4 to 8 cylinders - but it's nothing different than any other automatic. The engine is quiet, smooth and does not have that tinny growl the G35 had, for instance.
Interior and wind noise were minimal. It was fairly windy yesterday, with a constant breeze of about 10-15 knots. We drove into, perpindicular and with the wind without I did not notice anything distinct at any angle. It's not as quiet as a Lexus, for instance, but it definitely quieter than the G35, my Volvo and the BMW 3-series.
Finally, handling. Good, I thought, but I did not really push it hard because I had the salesman with me. More road feel through the steering than I thought I would get in such a big car. I did manage to squeak the tires a bit in a left turn while accelerating away from a stop sign at the bottom of the off-ramp. Automatic transmission shifts were almost imperceptible - best I've experienced in an American car. DC using the E-series transmission, drivetrain and suspension (albeit not the forged alloy version found in the E from which it's derived) will pay great benefits.
Final opinion: The 300C is now my top contender.
I agree with your assessment of the 4/8 cylinder switch; it's not noticeable.. And the tranny is a smooth shifting son of a gun..
I didn't see any comment from you on the ride and steering. Did you feel any of the twitchies/jigglies that I sensed in both?
Maybe it is just a case of rock hard tires as someone else suggested. I'll be looking for and driving a Limited in the next few days to see if there is a difference in the supension/steering.
Generally, I thought the ride was very good, especially at cruise (which matters the most to me). Over rougher pavement, I agree there may be more road feel-steering wheel jiggle transmitted through than you might expect for a 4000 pound car. On the other hand, it may be that we Americans have gotten used to NOT having good road feel compared to our European (read: Mercedes) brethren. Overall though, I don't think I should give a final opinion on the ride/handling until I have a chance to drive another C and/or Touring which I know is properly set up.
One other observation I forgot to post earlier was the fact that my salesman told me DC had done NO training with their sales force on this vehicle - I mean the guy or woman who is lurking in the windows of the dealership to descend on you the moment you get out of your car. While the 2005 300 is a very intriguing, attractive and seemingly well-built vehicle, as well as a pretty good value, those factors alone don't sell these cars. I KNEW MORE ABOUT THE CAR THAN THE SALESMAN DID. FAR MORE. While he was a pretty nice guy, it was kinda pathetic in a way because my interest in cars is sort of a necessary hobby (because I want to replace the Volvo), not my living. But in the end, it's not the salesperson's fault that DC apparently doesn't expend much on training (or maybe it's just the dealership - who knows?).
Well-informed and properly trained salespeople who help inspire an emotional connection with the car through an excellent knowledge of the details of their product gets customers to the negotiating table and ultimately sells these cars. In my experience, Acura, Inifniti, BMW, SAAB and Toyota salespeople seem to be the best informed about the details of their product and how it compares to their competition. I hope DC starts to realize that while they're now apparently able to compete with the aforementioned on product, getting their people trained well to SELL the product is what will increase their market share in the end.