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Comments
Still not happy with the visibility, but friend with an Audi A8L says it seems the same as his, and that one gets used to it. Accel from about 5 MPH was very sweet, but from standing still, it had a noticeable delay, then a slight tire spin, finally a take off. Wasn't WOW fast early on, but could tell it was about to really kick in when I had to let up based on speed limit (35 or so). Felt great on freeway on-ramps.
Big news, to me, was the sign on window for the Credit Union sale this weekend in Fairfax VA (see fairfaxautomile.com for more info). This is a bunch of dealers getting together every 6 months, and all the cars have no-haggle prices posted. This stickered at 37.6 and the no-haggle was 37.1. Not great in general, but under sticker isn't bad with all the stories of markups. Dealer only had 2 left today, so no promise that there will be any left on Saturday, but for those in area, might be worth a chance.
stephen
The car drove spectacularly well over the bumps, very comfortable ride. I was pleasantly surprised, considering Car and Driver's comment about the "crusty suspension" and USA Today's harsh comments about it riding like a "buckboard". The standard radio was excellent, a huge improvement in sound quality over the Infinity system in the 300M.
Meanwhile, the 300C I ordered January 13 still has not been scheduled to be built. Maybe sometime this summer....
stephen
AWD will not get damaged if you have a blowout. You're thinking of the old four-wheel-drive systems with a transfer case. They had slightly different axle ratios for the front and rear differentials (long story why), but that's why they get damaged.
All-wheel-drive usually utilizes a viscous (fluid) coupling. My understanding is that it will be a 38/62 F-R bias, just like the Mercedes 4-Matic system. You won't damage it if you get a blow out.
No stop sweating the details and go buy the car!
http://www.chrysler.com/300/index.html
in the mail today i received a road and track special edition featuring the 300. it's kind of a chrysler pr meets road test special edition. i guess i got it because i signed up for extra 300 info some time ago.
anyway, it explicitly states that the 4 speed auto in the LX cars is the same as that used in the LH...just slightly modified for RWD...
The local dealer called today and I sat in and examined a 300C painted Magnesium. What a difference - the chrome on the front end, the paint color, and rear proximity sensors in the bumper really made a difference.
The interior is very nice.
I am 6' 1", and think I will not order the sun roof, as I would have more freedom to adjust the seat.
I took my tape measure and found good news on the trunk. It is 57" wide in back and above the wheel wells, so an object such as my 22" x 55" folding ladder will fit. The trunk is 44" from front to back with the back seats up.
That dealer also had a black car and three others in back, and promised to have plenty for the party on 4/22. I will go then and drive one.
brian211--On buying a first year build, it is a crapshoot. Some, like Fastdriver had poor luck with the new 300M. I, on the other hand, have had very good luck with mine, and only the typical electronic failed parts [probably supplied by Japanese companies!!!] that were found on almost all the new 300Ms have been encountered. But the same can be said for almost any new model car. Check the RX-8, Audi, Chevy SSR and Crossfire boards and you will see similar glitches or failed parts. The question is what kind of dealer support will you get. If you have a 2* rather than a 5* dealer, then it can be a bad experience. I fortunately have a true 5* dealer, and they have been great in servicing my 300M. As Clint Eastwood would say: The question you got to ask yourself on any first year build is "Do you feel lucky?" If so, go for it.
That program makes no sense when buyers are anxiously waiting delivery.
Hopefully, all this frustration and poor communication from Chrysler will be worth the wait.
andre1969 - The R&T extra is sweet. LOTS of pretty pictures and details galore. Plus I believe there is another article in the regular issue itself.
It is my understanding that under conditions of low traction, torque can be shifted to the end of the car that needs it the most. I don't recall how much of the motive force can be, for example, directed at the Front -- but it is typical that such systems would permit a minimum of 50% of the drive force to go to the wheels needing it the most.
Since Acura is making such a big deal about their side to side AWD system, I can only assume that DC's in the 300C does NOT go the extra step in "smartness" to also provide side to side torque shift.
However, I can attest that the AWD system, such as will be in the 300C will provide essentially the best of both worlds (all worlds?) of FWD and RWD. The current argument is that to be a "player" you must be either RWD or AWD -- hence the rush to market of Acura, Cadillac, Chrysler even BMW and, of course Mercedes with AWD variants. Audi and Subaru have, of course, been at this for a while too, as have Volvo and Volkswagen.
Frankly, with this much power and torque underfoot, and with the apparently compentent DC chassis and DC 5spd automatic (manumatic) I wouldn't dream of getting one without AWD especially here in SoutWestern Ohio -- even with our mostly moderate winters.
What concerns me is the apparent lack of product information that the DEALERS have. Hopefully the technicians will be better trained.
If you know, or have been told or read when the AWD versions will be available for a test drive, I would appreciate knowing.
And, question 2, will the 300C offer any kind of "On*star" (MB tele-aid?) telematics?
Thanks.
Because I have practiced so much in snowy conditions, I have more control over my car in ANY condition. I don't panic when someone cuts me off or when someone slams on their brakes -- I simply take corrective action and recognize how the car will respond.
The automakers are appealing to people who seem to want cars that do the driving for them. Case in point: Mercedes' stupid "adaptive cruise control" (or whatever it's called) which puts on the brakes for you if you get to close to the car in front of you. Hasn't anyone heard of COASTING? It saves fuel AND wear & tear on your car. If you 'read' the traffic flow and pay attention to your driving, there is no reason to use your brakes on the highway.
Even here in Buffalo, the only time I think I'll regret not having an AWD version of the 300 is when the snowplow buries the end of my driveway. (In my Avenger, I simply back the car up at about 25 mph and vault it over the top!)
I called the 800-Chrysler number to confirm the $1,000 discount as soon as I saw it posted on this board. Of course, they didn't know anything about it, but as you said, they really can't be blamed for lack of information being given to them. It does reflect something though when you get the latest news from a message board.
PS: Thanks SuperDave for the "official" link.
I am more excited about these domestic products than I have been about most of the Japanese and European launches lately. I guess I'm reaching that age where I appreciate seeing some of the old American muscle car nuances, such as big engines, big slab sides and RWD. Now, my only concern is quality and reliability, neither of which I've been convinced Chrylser has been capable of.
I'm going to have to rein in my emotions and wait at least a year before deciding on either car. I don't see an enormous number of CTS's around, and I prefer to not be just another car on the road. I'm a bit concerned that these 300's are spread over too much of a price range and the car will shortly become a common sight, if they sell as well as anticipated. I love the look, though. I think it's the kind of car the Green Hornet or Dick Tracy would drive today.
P.S. The trunk lid is made of aluminum. What other sheet metal is?
For still more money, those other full sized rear wheel drive cars do offer super expensive options such as ultra-luxury rear seats, heated and cooled seats, and air suspensions, and brand names which some big spenders think are worth $20,000.
Could you tell me what day you ordered your car,was it a 300c and what city do you live in?
As impressed as I was when I viewed the 300 at the Detroit Auto Show, I thought, "But it's HUGE, and it's a four-door. I want a sport coupe with a stick shift!"
I'm caving in now. The 300 seems to be the best thing going, and it has a huge following. With Ford's quality being called into question nearly every day, I'm not as confident about the Mustang as I once was.
My friend's Acura TL is a great car, but the 300C incites PASSION in me. I just don't see as the Lincoln LS comes anywhere close, especially for the huge difference in price. The Pontiac GXP looks nice, though. It's looking like the 300 for me though.
About the only other car I can think of, in addition to what others have mentioned, that might compete with the 300 are the Mercury Marauder. It's not nearly as fast, though, and has been a bit of a disappointment to Ford and an insult to the Marauder name.
I like the Acura TL too...a friend of mine recently bought one, and for about $30-32K or whatever it seems like a great value. But compared to a 300C, I just kind of forget about it!
The Marauder is a lousy car and not at all worth the price: the seats are super slick, it has a solid rear axle, the CD changer is in the trunk, and, given the police concerns, probably would not pass the 50MPH rear crash test that the 300 and Magnum are designed to pass. Same with the Crown Victoria and the even more expensive Lincoln Town car version. In fact, I think that DCX can take all of the police business they want away from Ford.
The Cadillac DeVille is much more expensive, only has front wheel drive, has strange seat-mounted sealt belts, and is out of date in many other ways.
To perform a valid comparison, I suggest using Edmunds to price both cars with similar equipment.
Specifically, my mom bought a used Concorde, so I
was wondering if I might be able to use that fact to get this discount. Does she have to be the original owner? What paperwork does she have to co-sign for me to get the discount?
So the options for those of us who want to have the 300C in a true sports sedan configuration are wait for the SRT ("Chrysler 300 Hemi-C SRT" quite a mouthful, huh?) next year or take the current Hemi-C and try to tweak it there yourself.
Tires - You can at least go up to a 245/55 BFG gforce T/A KDS (another mouthful) to get a decent high performance all seasons. I assume those should still fit (just a tad wider). If you want anything more exotic in way of a true high perf. summer tire as far as I can tell you'd have to go into smaller diameter wheel+tire sizes that mess up the speedo (and who knows what to the suspension).
Wheels - I don't like the look of the too many spoke chrome wheels (and they look to busy & heavy for my taste). Might want 18's with a little wider rims to go w/the 245's anyway (and lose some spokes when you do it if you can). Tire Rack doesn't have any options for it spec'd/posted on their web site yet.
Axle Ratio - As I expected from seeing a "2.82" ratio on the Hemi-C, this is geared much more for mileage than for fast launch (and with the V-8 it still is sub 6!). R&T reports 44 and 72 for 1-2 and 2-3 shift points, C&D slightly higher. Not bad, Much better than the 300M 4 speed, but by my rough calcs if you could get an axle somewhere in the 3.2 range it would bring the shift points down into mid/high 30's and low 60's for better 0-60 acceleration times. The current 5th is so tall now (1800rpm reported at 60mph) that I don't think that change would hurt fuel economy or noise for high speed cruising much.
Speed limiter - As I expected thanks to the touring "H" rated tires the reviewers are reporting the Hemi-C is hobbled by a rev limited somewhere around 130mph. Probably/hopefully somebody will post the wire that has to be cut onto this site at some point.
Suspension upgrades - TBD
Brake upgrades - TBD (at least they are pretty big on the C package)
So I presume that the real SRT team is working on addressing all of these points at once right now - if they do it right -(Chrysler - please, please keep the value pricing in this option too!). I'm hoping that this time it will be aimed for performance & functionality more than looks. For one thing - I'd rather see SRT stay with [different style] 18's with wider/lower profile tires that put it into the heart of the performance tire choices - after all they can alter the speedo! Fill those wheel wells up with Width not height - 20" rims look great on a show car but I've read enough about unsprung weight to think 18" is enough).
Decision - So even though I was itching for the 300 C, I think I want the whole package enough to put in another year with my '99 300M PHP. Consider how well the current 300c does in reviews and specs with those current tires (should be hurting accel., handlng, & braking #'s) - the SRT should really be in the sport sedan and high end luxury sport sedans!
I suppose I should thank Chrysler for keeping me responsible - but I really just want them to hurry up with the SRT so that they can get my money sooner! Although with those 300C ads spinning out and the prospect of seeing some of you in 300C's on the road, I can't be positive I'll be able to hold out for a whole year.
Also, it is an instant rebate deducted from the purchase price by the dealer not a wait for a check from DC deal. In NY you still have to pay sales tax on the full price. 8.75% So you save $1000 not $1087.50.
So although I am eager to take delivery, the week wait may have saved me a grand.
I'm considering getting a spec car that is already on it's way. This one was ordered without U-Connect, the bluetooth hands-free phone thing.
My dealer offers a dealer-installed version. He claims that they are the same, with the exception of where the buttons are positioned. On factory-installed versions, the buttons are at the bottom of the rear-view mirror, while on dealer-installed versions, the buttons come on a "pad", approximately one inch by 3 inches, that can be placed basically anywhere on the dash. Other than this, there is supposedly no difference.
Can anyone confirm or deny this story?
who knows, it might be close
The V6 CTS is slow compared with the 300C, and the CTS-V is far more expensive and equipped with a manual transmission, so the comparison is not as straight-forward as with other cars. Therefore, I'll change my mind and say that the better comparison is between the regular CTS and the 300C. The CTS, equipped in a similar way, is more expensive and slower than the 300C.
By the time you add equipment to even match a 300 Touring, it is well into the 30's. Invoice of a base CTS, plus auto tranny and no other options is over $31K. You may be able to get them under invoice, but $3000 under invoice is a stretch and you still have a pretty stripped, basic model.
If you can go get a new 2004 CTS equipped like 300C for $28K, then you should go ahead and just get it.