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I've been lurking here the last few days, and have come to see you're one of the more knowledgeable "Sube" guys. I hope you wouldn't mind my asking you a quick question. Btw, I'm still learning this board's search capabilities, so I apologize in advance if this question's been asked before:
I've always loved Subies (that is the plural, isn't it?), and was pretty excited when the H6 motor came out. Reason being, the 4-cyl was never enough power for me, and never having owned a turbo in any of my cars, I'm scared of them. Sure, they're alot of fun, but for a guy like me who drives his cars into the ground, I never got the impression that ANY manufacturer's turbo, or consequently, the motor that turbo was in, offered any kind of real longevity. I know Subaru has been using turbos forever, but I've found no information anywhere eluding to how long they typically last.
I'm contemplating either an '03 S60 AWD (again--another turbo) or possible one of the new '05 Legacy XT models (only 'cause I can't afford a new 3.0). Either way, I'll be financing this sucker for 5 years, and I drive about 20k per year. My concern is, what's a turbo or turbo motor gonna' be like between 60k and 100k miles when I finally have it paid off?
Any thoughts or information would be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
Tim G.
'01 Expedition
'91 BMW 535i
'81 BMW 528i
Bob
BTW, the cost difference between an Outback XT and LL Bean (with the H6) is small. I think my XT-Ltd stickered at 32800 and the Bean costs around 33140 if I remember right. Of course, you can get the non-Ltd XT and save about $2400 and there is no comparable H6 model.
Main benefit to the H6 is that it has smoother and more consistent power delivery than the H4/turbo. But honsetly, my new XT is quieter and smoother than my previous 02 LL Bean H6 model, so the new turbo motor is no slouch either. The main benefit I see to the turbo motor is that its got more torque and is more fun to drive. The downside is typical turbo behavior -- lag (not bad at all in this case) and nonlinear power delivery and throttle response.
So, if you want fun, get the XT. If you want a totally serene driving experience with predictable throttle response, get an H6 model. Either way, the car is very refined.
Craig
Our current cars are a 2000 Passat wagon and a 2002 Volvo XC70. Both seem much roomier in the front and rear seats. The Legacy & Outback seemed more comparable to a Jetta than a Passat in legroom.
Has anyone had any luck modifying the seat tracks to increase front seat legroom?
He admitted that he noticed the lowness when he first got in the cars but that it doesn't hinder during the ride. Time will tell, I suppose, if/when I take one out. He attributed it to Subaru/other foreign manufacturer's preference of placement for rear visibility.
Even the non-auto dimming seemed potentially problematic (yes, could be a deal killer when the time comes months from now). It saves a 1/2" - 3/4" on the bottom but still seems inordinantly conspicuous (just wanted to use those words together). And, the manual flip tab is stupidly long by an extra 1/2" inch or so as compared to my altima. It just sticks out unnecessarily so (Subaru...are you listening?).
The question now is, if this was a true deal-killer for me, would there be any way of having either model (auto, or non-auto) placed up an inch or so? Who would be likely to do it and does anyone think I'd have a chance in hell of having a factory ordered one to be adjusted as such? Finally, I know there are after-market ones (auto and non). The auto ones require wiring which, maybe, the existing wires word work. I don't know. Anyhoo, not all auto dimmers are as tall as Subaru's. One manufacturer repeatedly says to be very careful when removing the OE from the glass...so as not to break it. Soooo....
I suppose these things can be removed and perhaps repositioned...the question is would anyone do it...and at what risk? Thanks again in advance for additional input.
Oh, and again, any additional input on the A pillars seeming rather 'close' to the driver? Does one miss the spaciousness/view when they start in a slightly better front viewing car?
I'm coming off a '99 Volvo XC and, I suppose, in some ways the Subie might feel a bit more 'cramped'. But, really, I think it's more a matter of different designs and ergonomics. The Volvo seats seem a bit wider, especially without the side-support on the seat bottoms, and seem somehwat higher placed, creating the feeling - if not the reality - of more space. I'm a big guy (200 lbs.) and drive with my legs rather splayed out - but, I don't feel cramped, at all. Mostly, I'm still breaking in the seat, looking forward to the seat bottom expanding as it 'learns' my butt and driving positions. But, I can't imagine most people not fitting comfortably in these vehicles. Now, some might prefer the fit of other cars, but the design/layout of the '05 OBs should work for nearly everyone. And, the overall driving experience really is superb.
In fact, I like the placement of the hand-brake, for example, for resting my leg. I remember test-driving Audi A4s, last year, and feeling really cramped; I thought the console was rather high right up to the radio and limited my ability to move my legs around on longer drives...and, the seats seemed way too small/narrow. Beautifully designed car, incredibly appealing in so many ways...but, too small, for me. The '05 VDC, by comparison, feels just right. The cockpit dimensions envelope the driver in a way that enhances the driving experience - quick, responsive cars should 'wrap' around the driver, rather than open spaces like vans, SUV's and cars like the Lexus 400s. Seems right on, design-wise/conceptually, to someone my size.
Just want to report that: at +2500 miles, the VDC wagon has been great. I am constantly impressed by the speed/quickness, handling and comparative quiet of the ride. Not a single problem, yet - everything seems to fit fine and work fine; the whole package working in sync, as it was designed to do. Couldn't be happier.
Peace.
You can move the "button" that the mirror is attached to. In fact, many folks who've lived in truly hot locations (I spent 6 years in south Texas) have had the experience of getting into their car and finding the mirror lying on the floor. The sun had fried the glue attaching the mirror button to the windshield.
In the case of a new car, you'll need to supply the heat and some mechanical pressure. First, remove the mirror from the button (it probably has a set screw - or similar - holding it in place). Next, have someone (like your wife?) fire up their hair dryer and apply heat from the outside of the windshield. I'm not sure where you're located, but this time of year I'm going to assume that the hair dryer heat won't represent glass-cracking thermal stress. If you're concerned, ease into the heat by using lower settings on the dryer and/or time and distance to get to full heat. Be sure to mark (with tape or whatever) the new location where you think you'll want to put the button.
Use a fairly benign prying tool (perhaps a small putty spreader) to slowly pry the button off the windshield (so, yes, this is a two-person process - the "heater" on the outside and the "pryer" on the inside). Be patient - this could take a few minutes or more. Oh - also note the orientation of the button before you pry it off so that you know how to remount it.
Once it's off, you can use a mirror mounting kit (sold for a couple of dollars at most auto parts stores) to remount that sucker where you want it. You can clean up any residual adhesive from the original location with something like paint thinner or fingernail polish remover (acetone).
Good luck. I hope some others who've performed this will chime in with their suggestions and experiences.
Ken in (unbelievably hot - upper 90s!) Seattle
(Help - no air conditioning in houses out here!)
I'm about 6'1", but sit very high (short legs). In fact I couldn't buy the GT Limited because I couldn't sit comfortably under the moonroof.
After all that description, my experience has been that I have no problem with the mirror obstructing my vision. I have had problems with it in some other cars, but not this one.
1. replace outer window trim- drivers side- there was a small defect in the rubber seal.
2. Re-align trim around the ash tray- not totally corrected though. But much better (there was a large gap on the upper right side)
3. Re-install driver's side A and B-pillar trim (loose)
4. Re-install passenger's side C-pillar trim (clamp broken)
5. replace drivers side door panel- cosmetic defect
6. adjust fuel filler door- it was protruding out 1/4 in
7. Align trunk trim- it was off by about 1/8 in
I think there's still one piece left that's loose, on the passenger side. I just can't tell which one because I don't sit over there. Also I think my steering wheel is about 4-5 degrees off to the right. All this took them a day and a half to do, and the pieces they re-installed seem quite solidly in place now. It's a lot of little stuff that probably would have been ok if never fixed, but I'm kinda picky (and I hate rattles!)
They gave me an outback sport loaner car- I forgot how quiet and nice the legacy was until I got it back! It's just a whole different level of sophistication and refinement in comparison.
If anyone else had a car that was part of the recall- you might want to check your interior trim panels and make sure they were replaced correctly.
tom
Ken in Seattle - thanks for the itemized instructions (and, if all else fails,thanks also to the fellow that suggested a window repair shop...good thinking). Regarding your repair suggestion that my wife hold the blow dryer while I pry (I was going to state that in more vulgar/imaginative terms but couldn't bring myself to do it), I could try that...but my girlfriend might be shocked upon introduction of my 'wife'. Thanks again to all!
There is, btw, a great Subaru forum on the other side of the internet in case you folks are looking for more detailed info and plenty of pics. I am having trouble registering there, though, so my questions are put here. Don't be offended if I re-ask my questions over there for concensus sake.
-KarenM-
As to the mirror: frankly, I wouldn't have ordered it if given a choice. Don't really care about the compass and never thought it was too much work to flip the mirror at night. I bought mine off the lot and had to take a few options that I wouldn't have opted for had I been ordering or asking the dealer to search New England inventories. I was ready to buy/trade, wife and son liked the color...so, I thought I would take the one VDC that was on the lot. In particular, the back-up sensor, upgraded security, Momo shifter and the dimmer mirror were already installed and added only a few hundred dollars, really.
So, FWIW, my advice would be not to get it, especially since you'll be doing only a little night driving. Use the money you save on things like the armrest extender, air filter and rear cargo nets - when they're available.
One additional observation/piece of advice: the car is incredibly quick and fast (and quiet), especially using the manual sportshift..where one can zip right up to 80+ in fourth, with little apparent strain on the engine; so keep an eye on the speedometer, especially to maximize mpg. Drving around 70-73mph, I'm starting to get 21.5-22 mpg...when I'm cruising at 80 or above, I'm getting around 18mpg (or even a little less!). Maybe this will change after a few thousand more miles, but it's worth watching.
Again, congratulations..and enjoy!
Peace.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/products/leading_technology/leading_tec- h_kca-420i.htm
-KarenM-
What other Subaru forum?
Jerry
-B
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0411.htm
The seat-mounted unit itself is small in comparison to the seat mounted unit in the Accord, and far smaller than that in the Camrys. Perhaps this is an area for improvement, or perhaps SoA just needs a new supplier. Whatever the case, I expected a class leading performance.
Still, its better standard protection than the rest of the class offers, at least until (and if) Honda makes the side airbag/side curtain standard in the Accord for 2005 as has been rumored.
happy motoring,
~alpha
A few more impressions:
Fuel mileage continues to creep up. I'm at around 22mpg on mostly freeway driving. City driving brings it down to about 20.
Last night, I finally had the chance to really drive at night. Since it's light out here until 9PM, I had fewer chances than I thought. Anyway, the headlight performance is simply great. The projector lamps do an excellent job of casting out a very broad beam with excellent cutoffs. Even Kana who doesn't really get into car stuff commented on how bright the lights were.
Not only is light output great, the side mirrors also have an amber coating on them that reduces glare. I noticed it a bit during daylight, but at night, the benefit becomes clear. Also, my autodimming rearview mirror worked very well, although I did wish it reacted just a tad quicker.
My only wish is that the instrument panel could be darkened one or two stops more. Although the colors are beautiful, I like having a near-black dashboard when driving in rual areas.
The engine and tranny feel more responsive. The TCU is learning my driving style and now even in "D", the transmissions is holding each gear longer and acceleration off the line feels a lot more solid.
Lastly, I gave my LGT a coat of Klaase High Gloss Sealant this weekend. The paint is now slippery smooth and glistens in the sunlight.
Ken
According to CNN, "The 2005 Legacy was actually tested twice for side-impact safety. The Institute's first side-impact test on the car revealed that the side airbag was folded in a way that prevented it from deploying quickly to protect occupants' heads. In early June, Subaru recalled all 2005 Legacy's to correct the problem and the car was retested by the Institute on May 18.
Although the crash test dummy's head was better protected in the second test, the test still revealed a high likelihood of rib fracture, internal organ injuries and the possibility of pelvic fractures, resulting in the car's "Marginal" rating."
Bob
I have been eyeing both the Outback XT (really want manual) and the VDC (sportshift). The VDC sounds like a great model. I would really love a V6 manual...so there is my dilemma.
My questions for '06
-Will we now see Navigation? I test drove an 05 GT for that $25 gift card and the salesperson stated that there is open space for Nav in the '06.
-Any news on XM?
-I read a post that the VDC does not have memory seating for the driver? Is that right? I LOVED the new seats in the '05. I got into my car after and it felt like I was sitting on flat boards compared to those 05 seats!
Thanks for all the great posts!
Frank
The 2005 Legacy was actually tested twice for side-impact safety. The Institute's first side-impact test on the car revealed that the side airbag was folded in a way that prevented it from deploying quickly to protect occupants' heads. In early June, Subaru recalled all 2005 Legacy's to correct the problem and the car was retested by the Institute on May 18.
Although the crash test dummy's head was better protected in the second test, the test still revealed a high likelihood of rib fracture, internal organ injuries and the possibility of pelvic fractures, resulting in the car's "Marginal" rating.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/26/pf/autos/iihs_rav4_legacy/
frankw- The Outback may or may not perform slightly better than the Legacy due to the fact that it stands taller than the Legacy, and therefore has a higher beltline in relation to the IIHS barrier. For what its worth, the Car and Driver article you quoted is erroneous, since the IIHS does not issue a star rating. That is from NHTSA, and I'd bet it will be true (the Legacy/OB will get 5 stars).
mylegacy- Although the Legacy is rated "Marginal" by the side impact by the IIHS, it is the ONLY car in its class whose standard model earns better than a POOR. This may change for 2005 when/if Honda makes side airbags/curtains standard on the Accord.
anchoe- I think the alloys on the new Legacys and OBs are awesome! That gold stuff on old OBs, for example was awfully gaudy, and very ugly, IMO.
~alpha
I would expect sedan and wagon results similar but Legacy and Outback might be different because of where the impact is. Just thoughts.
Subaru's response:
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/Query.aspx?Sit- eName=Subaru&Entity=PRAsset&SF_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=87101- &XSL=PressRelease&Title=Releases&Cache=True
Krzys
I think both the Accord and the Camry rated the highest possible rating of "Good", when models equipped with the side/curtain airbags were tested. The test done with the Subaru was done with side/curtain airbags, since it is standard. The Accord/Camry had the negative ratings for models that were tested without the curtain airbags. Just to clarify.
"Although the overall results of the side impact test did not match those of the frontal testing, the 2005 Subaru Legacy exceeds all of the Federal government’s stringent safety standards, including the standard for side impact protection.....The safety of our customers is of the utmost importance to Subaru."
They have essentially ignored the marginal side impact rating....this just doesn't cut it.
I recall the Legacy/Outback coming out of the Australian tests with record high ratings. I thought for sure safety was a non-issue. I hope the wagons fare as well here as they did in Australia, else, I may get off the Subaru fence all together.
Luck.
00' Outback
Considering Legacy GT Ltd or OB XT
Standard response by manufacturers to state that the car meets ALL MINIMUM government criteria....(therefore) injuries are your responsibilities. Actually, SOA is correct, in that they designed a car that MEETS Government criteria. They are mistaken that this is a sufficient criteria and standard to meet. It is not the Gov't' job to have car builders exceed the criteria--that job belongs to the MARKETPLACE. So if VW and Honda and Toyota and Mazda introduce a car with similar capabilities at a lower price point that EXCEEDS SOA's crash ratings (that meet the Gov't minimum standards) then we would, in most circumstances, create a condition where the public will walk away from this particular SOA product.
So yes SOA is correct in their statement but, in my opinion, show a lack of understanding with this statement. SOA works on safety and reliability as a core message as they sell their products. This rating dilutes that core message and hurts their market strategy. They need to do better before someone else comes in...like the RAV 4...not the same product or the same marked but I bet you one cent that some will look at the RAV 4 and think twice about buying anything else in that market segment...
The one thing that disappointed me was that it's now clear that the side airbag recall was triggered not by an internal QC check, but from the IIHS test.
Ken
Hopefully, this is not a kiss of death for such a promising model. If it is an airbag issue, then they should correct it pronto. The Accord scored badly when tested without the airbag but gained the highest possible rating when tested with the side-curtain equipped model (All EX model Accords - 4/6 cylinder - come standard with side-curtains).
~alpha
I picked up my Atlantic Blue Legacy GT 5EAT wagon almost three weeks and 1600 miles ago. Very nice so far. I'm quite happy.
At 60 MPH I was getting 30 MPG avg. At 75-80 MPH was getting 24 MPG. Obviously less than that around town. As I recall, my 1996 Saab turbo gained another 2 - 3 MPG after 10K miles, let's hope this engine also does. Yes, it is hard to stay under 4K RPM although now that I've passed the magic 1000 mile mark I don't find myself up there much. I will admit to liking the turbo rush.
The turbo gauges are the best, very cool. My 7-year old likes watching them almost as much as I do. The rear cargo area retractable cover/crossbar really do fit under the cargo area.
I've not encountered the radio static nor the hesitant acceleration others have.
Steering does feel vague in the middle, as if there's no dead-center, but is quicker that anything else I've driven once it grabs.
The automanual seems smooth, though I've not yet really wrung it out. In non-manual mode I notice that the sport setting downshifts more aggressively and noticeably (even under light acceleration) than the normal mode.
I sent an email to Subaru and they sent me the 3/36K warranty coupon. Before that I called them and they asked that I call back once the dealer enters my car's VIN into Subaru's system. Try enough Subaru sources and you'll probably succeed.
The autodimming mirror is too low for me, doesn't dim rapidly enough, and doesn't pick up lights in it's periphery very well.
The small flip-out bag hooks in the cargo area work well for plastic grocery bags.
Skip the anti-skid mat accessory. You can get the same stuff at any hardware, WalMart, etc. It's simply a black 33" square section of that small, multi-beaded rubber drawer liner stuff.
Has anyone used the roof rack square crossbars ? I was walking through the installation and the angle of the mounting to the wagon's existing roof rails seems to put a lot of pressure on the small tongue of the attachment piece. Oh well, another opportunity to contact Subaru online.
I just checked tire pressure and it was low 2 lb in the rear and 3.5 lb in the front. Putting them back to 33/35 makes a positive difference. I advise checking yours.
Keep up the posts and enjoy your new cars.
Sorry, I should have modified my statement to: All leather clad Accord models, regardless of the number of cylinders, come standard with Side Curtain airbags (2004 model year onward). This of course would include the EX-L (4-cylinder with leather). Honda does not have standalone options from the factory. They only have trimlines. Either the trimline comes standard with a certain feature or it does not.
You can get an EX (cloth) with Side Curtian airbags, it is not a standard feature. Call it what you want, but in my book its an "option" because you can opt to get an EX (cloth) without side curtains, or with side curtains that are installed at the factory. Something installed at the factory and not standard on a vehicle is how I define option. I agree with you otherwise... all other Honda additions are dealer or port installed accessories. Side curtains on the cloth EX Accords, however, are not.
~alpha
Craig