Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

c_hunter · September 2004

I agree with Ken.

BTW, "cold max" is the proper level when the engine is cold and the power steering has not been running. It does not pertain to weather!

Craig

laurn · September 2004

In a previous post there was mention of an Outback 2.5i with air conditioning troubles. I would be very interested to know if other people are discovering inadequate air problems.

I have the 05 Legacy 2.5i wagon. During the last few months here in Los Angeles it has been quite warm so I really got to test my air conditioner. Needles to say I was disappointed. It was cool but I never felt cold. The dealer admitted there was a problem and put in a new compressor. I was told the problem was fixed. It was in the upper 90s when I picked the car up and while I was on the highway it did seem a little cooler but once I got in stop and go traffic it once again felt inadequate. Over the next few days with temperatures in the upper 90s I was always just shy of being completely comfortable even with the air on full blast.

I had it back to the dealer two more times. The last time they gave me a Legacy 04 turbo sedan as a loaner. The air from that car was great so I assume at least some models have good air conditioning. When I picked my car up this last time the service rep told me they had made all the adjustments they could and that it met Subarus specs. He implied that that was as good as it gets in the 05.

The 04 I drove had automatic climate controls that went to a low of 65 degrees. Im wondering if this is the temperature I should be getting out of my vents and what is the most accurate way of measuring it Does the Limited Legacy or OB have a stronger air conditioner than the base model? Do Subarus generally have weak air? I dont know if I should accept what the dealer tells me or demand they look at it again.

Thanks, Laurn

solidsender1 · September 2004

Okay, so I printed out the instructions [thanks, fastsuby!] before I left work last night and decided to give this crazy process a try before leaving the lot [given the position it requires and the, uh, rapid-fire hand motion at lap level, I was a bit worried what someone might think had they glanced through the glass, but I digress] ...

key in, key on, 20 times, key off, key out, key in, key on, 20 times, key off, key out, key in, start car, voila, no more chimes.

I gotta admit, I'm still chuckling but oh so pleased to have silenced the lambs ... now I just gotta know, who/how in the hell did someone figure this procedure out??!!

I'm worried that I've also caused some inadvertent disruption in the time/space continuim ... like the old Steven Wright line:

"I've got this light switch in my house that doesn't do anything, so every day when I walk by I flip the switch. The other day I got a call from a woman in China ... she said, 'Cut it out.'"

Anyway, thanks again for the heads up.

c_hunter · September 2004

Laurn, I think something is definitely wrong with your particular car. Of the last 5 Subarus I have owned (culminating in an 05 Outback XT), all have had very good AC. I live in tidewater VA where it gets really hot and humid in the summer and I am one of those guys who always seems warm, so I would definitely be complaining if the AC was not up to par. The AC in my new 05 is pretty strong, in fact, it has no problem cooling down the black interior after the car has been sitting in the sun all day.

You should be able to measure the temperature coming out the AC vents and verify that it meets the correct temperature accordingto specs. There are specs on the system temperature -- with the temp knob on minimum and the intake air damper set to recirculation, it should be blowing a certain number of degrees below the ambient temperature (someone else may have exact numbers, but it's supposed to be pretty cold air, on the order of 55F-60F if my memory is right). BTW, the 65F setting on the auto climate control systems is for the target cabin temperature, but the air coming out the vents is cooler than that when running "max" AC.

I hope some of the others can add to my comments with more precise info. Once you get all the facts, and perhaps measure hard numbers on your AC temps, it may be a good idea to try another dealer and/or call the Subaru 1-800 number to set up a case and get their input. If the system is not meeting the minimum temperature spec, then something is definitely wrong and they will have to fix it under warranty.

Good luck,
Craig

fastsuby · September 2004

Glad to help, It is like a new car feeling isn't it! I read/heard about it from a friend whom is a service tech and admitted "car geek".

The only drawback is that if/when you have the car serviced if they disconnect the battery the Chime Gremlins will be back. Just repeat the process.

fastsuby · September 2004

Agree with c_hunter...I have the 05 XT in Black interior and the A/C is far superior to my old Maxima with Black Leather. The A/C in my XT is chilly cold when necessary. Never noticed it not keeping up. I remember I had that similar type of problem on other cars, the problem turned out to be a pin hole in one of the pipes for the A/C. Over the course of a few weeks the A/C would lose its charge. It did take a few visits to the dealer until they belly'ed up to the problem. Just a notion..

Karen_S · September 2004

If so, my apologies for the repeat.

Follow-Up Test: 2005 Subaru Outback

ateixeira · September 2004

Laurn: my A/C puts icycles on my nose, I can't run it on a high fan setting, even in humid DC summers ('98 Forester). My wife's '02 Legacy L is the same way.

Make sure you put it on recirc, not fresh air, so you're not cooling fresh/hot air all the time.

Under the hood, some folks have added extra insulation to the ducts but you shouldn't need to do that.

-juice

ateixeira · September 2004

Of course the hatch is light to open, it's aluminum! It's also never rust. :-)

They complain about the tranny but it doesn't sound like they even tried the Sport mode!

This my fave:

refined and glamorous beauty

-juice

kens · September 2004

Finally got it to work!! I think what did it for me was to wait after the first buckle for the seatbelt light to stop flashing.

I noticed that for some reason, the indicator light continues to flash even though the chimes stop after buckling right away.

So, I buckled, waited until the indicator stopped flashing and finished the remaining 19X reps waiting for the light to turn out every time.

Ahhhh. Now I can just listen to the sound of the engine idle with no chiming.

Ken

kens · September 2004

Laurn,

My 05 GT Wagon's AC works very, very well. Despite the black leather interior and large interior space, I've found the AC to get things cool very fast. I'm up in the Bay Area and about three weeks ago when we had the extended heat wave of 90+ degrees for over a week, my car was about the coolest place I could be.

You mentioned a 04 Legacy turbo. Do you mean an 05 Legacy? There hasn't been a turbo Legacy in years.

Either the 2.5i A/C is not as strong as the turbo engine or there might be something still wrong with the A/C. Can you perhaps try a different dealer?

Ken

tsy · September 2004

Great Ken! I'm glad it finally worked. I was beginning to worry about your membership in the OCD club. ;-)

I agree with everyone else, the AC on my Subarus have been fine despite high temps. There must be something wrong with yours. The AC kicks in very fast on my '05.

The problem is in SoCal there are very few Subie dealers (not a big market for awd- most SUVs there are rwd) but try and find another one if your dealer can't fix it.

tom

doug1 · September 2004

There is at least one A/C-related difference between the 2.5i and the XT (or the 2.5i Limited): the number of fan speeds. In the base 2.5i, the fan has 4 speeds. In the models with automatic climate control, the fan has 6 speeds. When I drove a base 2.5i, I thought the highest speed wasn't as powerful as that in the Limited or turbo models.

Doug

kens · September 2004

Anyone read the November Consumer Reports issue? There's apparently a $30K sport sedan review.

I've heard over at Legacygt.com that the GT got pretty good reviews.

Here's a quote:

"The TSX and LGT are better overall than the 35K 9-3 or Jag X and the LGT driving experience is close to a 40K 330i".

Ken

ateixeira · September 2004

Out of curiosity, does the passenger seat belt chime even when there is no passenger in it?

I ask because we know the air bag sensors measure the weight in the seat, so the data is available.

Saab and Jaguar, eat your hearts out.

BMW - Look out!

-juice

ateixeira · September 2004

Can't wait to read that. Now who wants to bet against Saab eventually adopting the Legacy platform for its 9-3 replacement.

Better than the Malibu...

-juice

solidsender1 · September 2004

No, the passenger seat does not chime without weight [not sure what the minimum is but my 85 lb. Boxer is enough to make it sing].

I've not had a passenger - wife or pooch - since silencing the driver's chimes last night, so I'm unclear if the procedure has to be done on each seatbelt to keep 'em quiet.

fastsuby · September 2004

The process simply turns off the chimes. Effectively bypassing via software the I/O for the bell. The passenger side will ring either. The air bag sensor is fully functional. (I hope none of us ever need to use it though)

My buddy told me about a couple of other ideas that I will post in the next few. Some are goofy, others are somewhat useful.

kmclean · September 2004

Hello, Laurn,

Speaking as a former South Texan, I'd say your car has an A/C problem.

Here are a couple of quick checks that YOU can do before going back to the dealer:

1) When the weather is at least in the mid-80s (good luck in Vermont this time of year), and the car hasn't been running for awhile, and with the car not super-heated by sitting in the blazing sun, hop in and fire up the A/C on MAX. Then go around and open the hood and locate the high-pressure and low-pressure A/C lines (these are typically aluminum-colored metal tubes about 1/2" in diameter). Once the A/C's been running for a few minutes, the low-pressure line should be distinctly cold, and the high-pressure line quite hot (almost too hot to touch). If this isn't the case, stop right there and report the findings to your dealer.
2) If you're "making cold" then get into your car with a room thermometer with an open bulb, turn the fan to MAX, make certain the air is only coming out through the dash vents, and get that thermometer as close as possible to the most robust vent (fastest airflow) and hold it there for a few minutes. While there's some variation, a properly running A/C (and this is why it needs to be warm enough outside) should put out cold air (at the dash vents) in the range of the upper 40s. If your system (as measured by this crude test) is warmer than the low 50s, then it's defective somewhere "downstream" of the compressor.

TO OTHERS: Anyone know if Laurn's model has a sight valve where she can check the R134a charge?

Good luck - hope this helps!

Ken in (sunny and cool) Seattle

laurn · September 2004

Thanks everyone for your comments on Subaru air conditioning. I needed some conformation that the problem is my car and not Subaru in general. I will get a thermometer and measure what it is putting out. I will look for a temperature below 55 degrees. I did notice one day that the built in thermometer on my dash read 76F when in fact it was about 102F out side. It seems to be reading correct now but for a few days it was way off. I wonder if there could be any connection?

I will keep on the dealer until I resolve this problem.

Laurn

c_hunter · September 2004

I did notice one day that the built in thermometer on my dash read 76F when in fact it was about 102F out side. It seems to be reading correct now but for a few days it was way off. I wonder if there could be any connection?

Hmmm, now that is interesting. I know the outside temp is used in the auto climate control system on my 2.5XT, maybe it has a function on the system in your 2.5i as well.

Craig

tsy · September 2004

Hey, has anyone noticed how well you can hear the stereo from outside the car with all the doors shut? It's pretty clear from a few feet away. I could understand all the words! And no, I wasn't blasting it.

Well, I guess everyone outside will be able to listen to my music too. ;-)

Anyone install some dynamat or equivalent sound deadening in the doors?

tom

infrasub · October 2004

Just picked up our new GT LTD yesterday. Traded in 03 Legacy SE for it, really liking it so far! It makes a great companion to the 99 Forester and 99 Miata. We got the sedan, I wanted the wagon but wife said we didnt need two of those. Just getting used to the dual zone air conditioning and have one question, if I turn the driver temp the passenger temp stays where it was set, is there a way to have it track the drivers side control with out turning it as most of the time only one person will be in this car.

Also forgot to mention that I got the 5at and it is amazing!

khallock · October 2004

Ken,

Thanks. I'm glad to hear that the whining sound will probably go away as I put more miles on the car. I mentioned to my husband that you thought it might be the belt and he is going to check that for me, but he didnt think so.

Craig - Duh! I figured the Cold meant the whether. I told my DH last night and he knew that since he used to work on cars, but I guess I assumed it meant the temperature. But I guess it still is a bit of a problem because when he checked the power steering fluid, the engine was hot (I just got home from work) so it should have been at Hot max, atleast. But instead it was at cold max.

Seat belt chimes - I am going to try this again! I don't think I took the key out of the ignition the first time I tried it.

Kristen

bat1161 · October 2004

Last night, on the last day of the $25 test drive offer, I finally went for the rides. I found a dealer who recently expanded into Subaru's (Rich Lucas in NJ), where I was able to drive both the Leg GT LTD and OB XT LTD back to back. Both cars had the sport shift, which I found to be very nice. The good thing about the dealer is he is located on a local highway, so you get the full effect of jumping into the flow of traffic.
    I found putting the car into sport mode was the most fun, as the transmission reacted smoothly form start to finish. The OB seemed to have a bit more throaty sound to it, and the Leg felt a bit more smoother ride. The OB did feel better going over potholes, and on the dirt road in back of the dealership. I have to say that I liked the feel of the OB a little bit more. Maybe I'm biased from driving an OB all these years.
    There is a noticable differnce between my 2000 OB and the 05's. The interior is a lot cleaner, and it feels less cluttered. I liked the dual climate control feature. No more arguing between my wife and I on who is cold, or hot:-).
   Overall, very pleased, and I look forward to taking another drive in the OB in the future.

Mark

kens · October 2004

Congratulations!

Unfortuantely, there is no way to have the passenger side temp track the driver side temp. It was a hassle at first, but I find myself adjusting both without realizing it now.

Ken

kens · October 2004

It's been chilly enough in the mornings here in the Bay Area for me to start using the seat heaters on my LGT wagon.

I really like the new 4-position settings. With my Forester, I found the 2-position settings to be either "pretty warm" and "very hot". I could never keep the seat heaters on very long.

The extra positions on my LGT seem to have more lower settings that give just the right amount of heat. Also, the heating elements seem to go up further the seatback just about to the bottom of my shoulder blades. With the Forester, it stopped about right in the small of my back.

Ken

tsy · October 2004

Ken- I also love the seat heaters (try to have them on all my cars!). It's been getting a little chilly here in the NW too, and they've come in very handy. I agree it's nice to have the 'simmer' settings in the middle. Really helpful for when your back is sore too!

tom

mruebusch · October 2004

Yes, I've used the seat heaters for the first time this morning(not to cold in Ohio yet) and level 2 worked fine, 4 got warm in a hurry. I'm almost at 1000 miles and the car continues to grow on me everyday. I must say I work at a country hospital every couple of weeks and the lightening for this car is very nice..dont have to keep turning the brights on when I'm going down the country roads even when I have to deer slalom.

sduford · October 2004

I keep hearing people rave about the headlights on this forum but I find the lights on my Outback XT Ltd are no better than the run-of-the-mill jobbies I had on my 2001 Highlander. They really are just average compared to the previous cars I have owned. I was expecting much better from all the comments here.

djo1 · October 2004

Hi, anyone have a maintenance coupon they can't use? I just called Subaru NA and apparently I wasn't on the marketing list despite purchasing before sept 30.... I was offered free oil/filter at the local dealer, but will be moving in a year, so that is pretty much worthless. Thanks in advance.

Dave

tsy · October 2004

Maybe you need to take your sunglasses off. ;-)

I was quite impressed by the headlights, coming from a 2003 Sequioa, 2002 Passat, and having driven around MBs, Lexus, and RX-8s with HIDs find them much better than expected. I think to get significantly brighter you'd need illegal offroad lights. Now, the color spectrum is warmer than HIDs, so they may not seem as 'bright' but you can definitely see things from far off coming at you (at 100+mph) ;-)

tom

sduford · October 2004

Hmmm, maybe I need to get my vision checked; it does get blurry at 100Mph+ :0

beanboy · October 2004

Subaru reported sales of 15,843 units, up 18 percent from a year ago. The Legacy model was the best-seller with 7,724 units sold.

http://www.investors.com/breakingne...=23348524&brk=1

khallock · October 2004

I've been using the seat heaters in the mornings when I go to work. Its in the 40's or so here in Vermont in the AM. The seat heaters are nice and toasty

beanboy · October 2004

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/10-01-2004/0002263137&EDATE=

kens · October 2004

Headlight impressions can be subjective. It depends on what characteristics one looks at them. Most people focus on brightness and beam pattern. IIRC, doesn't the Highlander use reflector beams? I've rarely come across a situation where reflector housings outperform a projector beam using the same bulbs.

I believe the 05 Leg/OB has some of the best non-HID lights. But, I can see some folks not being happy about how sharp the cutoffs are.

Good to hear Subie sales are up! Wow, I didn't know Legacy sales were higher than OB sales.

Ken

c_hunter · October 2004

I've been using the seat heaters in the mornings when I go to work. Its in the 40's or so here in Vermont in the AM. The seat heaters are nice and toasty

I am jealous! I miss fall weather in New England, actually I miss the winter weather too! One of these days I will move up to VT where I can really use the seat heaters!

Craig

infrasub · October 2004

Thanks for the reply Ken, I'm sure that will work for me as well once I get used to it. Dont have to fiddle with much as the climate control works very well anyhow. Still really like the car, best of both worlds for sport and luxury for us!

Dave

surfaceplate · October 2004

been 6 weeks and no v.i.n. number.are these cars hand made or what.wish the factory had a site like u.p.s. where you could track your package.is it really going to take 3 months?

snowbird · October 2004

I am picking up my VDC to-morrow (Atlantic Blue) and I ordered it in mid July. So it takes close to 3 months. Will post more in a few days. Snowbird

dscotti · October 2004

Ken, I'm experiencing the same heated vent air issue as the other folks. I have tried your method several times but can't seem to get it to work. I tried it while the outside air temp was about 57 and the interior temp was at least in the mid 70's due to sun heating. One would think that you wouldn't get heated vent air coming in under these conditions but I did. I questioned this at the dealer and they didn't have an answer. I called Subaru customer service and the plan is to try this on one of the demo cars to see if it works the same. Thanks for the advice. I actually hope mine is broken so I can get it fixed. I've never experienced this in any other car, including cars with auto climate control.
Don

dscotti · October 2004

Craig, Are you running the fan at all or leaving it off? If I follow your proceedure and turn the fan on after selecting the mode, my system automatically reverts to AC on. If I follow Ken's proceedure of turning temp to 65 and then turning the AC off, I get warmed fresh air. I'm hoping I have a defective system and that this is not the way it normally works.
Don

samiam_68 · October 2004

Actually, AFAIK, Legacy sales include the Outback - OB is just a subset of the complete Legacy lineup.

jtose · October 2004

I paid an additional $400 for the Michelins and no tax. Consider that The Michelins cost $600 + tax this was not a bad deal. I'll add one other thing: with less than 400 miles on the car I took my first extended highway trip today and got just short of 27 mpg. I don't know if the tires had anything to do with it but I drive in such a way that I do not force many downshifts and I was hauling at 80 mph most of the way. Not bad for a car where the engine is not broken in!

dscotti · October 2004

I just purchased an '05 Outback XT last night and today we had the fumes experience. My wife and son were in the car in heavy stop and go traffic. They saw some smoke coming out of the hood scoop and the sides of the hood. The fumes came into the car and were so bad that they became light-headed and got headaches. When they got home their cloths and the inside of the car smelled like the fumes. I consider this to be a very serious problem and am trying to figure out what my options are.

c_hunter · October 2004

There should be some burnoff smell from the undercoating on the exhaust, but what you described is definitely not normal!! (copious amounts of smoke is definitely abnormal). Get back to the dealer and have them look at it -- hopefully it is something simple.

Craig

c_hunter · October 2004

If you hit the fan buttons in vent mode, the AC may turn on, but you can just hit the AC button to turn it back off. Actually, I did just that on the ride home tonight.

Craig

frankw · October 2004

Nobody ever commented on my "do it yourself 0-60" post. In it I raised the question of the effect of altitude on acceleration. I live at 7000 feet ASL. It seems to me that once the turbo kicks in there shouldn't be too much altitude effect. But if it takes, say, 1 second longer to get to 20mph (i.e. before full turbo) at this altitude, then it will take at least 1 second longer to get to 60 compared to sea level. Does that seem correct?

Frank

njswamplands · October 2004

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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