Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

kyfdx · May 2005

Why not a Saab 9-2X? It is AWD, can be had with cloth seats.. If you get the Aero model, it will be just as fast or faster than the 9-3.. And, it is made by Subaru...

ateixeira · May 2005

Subtract the Turbo, low profile tires, sport suspnsion, and upgraded stereo, and I'd recommend a Legacy 2.5i sedan or wagon. Not even Limited, since she does not like leather.

The base Outback might be her cup of tea, she might like the higher point of view and long travel suspension, plus the cloth comes with seat heaters. She might just looove that.

Try one out.

-juice

locke2c · May 2005

she'd hate the 2.5i. it will be waaaay slow after coming from a 9-2 Aero.

the Legacy GT however would be a good upgrade. with cloth they are well under $30k.

~c

ateixeira · May 2005

But if it's driven tamely every day, and she's never in the boost anyway, why not save a bunch of gas? The 2.5i is a good car underneath, and very fuel efficient at 22/30 with the auto, on cheap regular gas to boot.

Remember, she's trying to get away from a sporty turbo.

-juice

xwesx · May 2005

Well, since space is not so much of an issue, perhaps the Impreza or Forester line would be more conducive to a re-introduction to Subaru without an overly large investment. The turbo issue seems to be more of a husband vs. wife preference, but since turbos are available within both lines, they can compare the models as a team!

Anyhow, good luck with it. Sounds like it is "her" car pretty much exclusively, but she wants your help picking it out! It is almost like a "does this outfit look good on me?" question.... you can't win no matter how you respond! :P

kat95 · May 2005

We just traded my hubbies leased 02 Saab Aero as we have always had 2 cars, his and hers. I now drive an 05 Legacy i limited sedan (love). I also drove the GT (turbo) version. Yes, the Saab Aero was nice and the seats comfortable for me that's where it ended I was not impressed with the vehicle I think that it didn't handle well it felt like a big front wheel drive car to me. The tires were expensive to replace and the snow tires in winter at $200 each plus premium gas, $80.00 oil changes at the dealer were enough. The tire size was difficult to find locally so they had to be ordered.

I had a 95 impreza prior to the legacy and would take another Subaru anyday. We live in the north east so AWD is important plus it sticks to the road when it rains.
If cost is not an issue then go for the GT. I am very satisfied with the 168hp. and love getting into my car every day. I also test drove the 05 Mercury Montego and Audi 4 and 6 didn't like those either. Ok, I may be biased but they make a good car.

mike64 · May 2005

Hi All:

I've had my Outback 2005 2.5 for a few months now (Canada). great car. But a couple of days ago I noticed the security light flashing on the dashboard when I lock the vehicle. The manual mentions that the security light would come on in valet mode or if bumped or otherwise triggered by an opening door. I didn't see anything amiss but can't stop it from flashing. It flashes continuously. Any ideas? Thanks

hondafriek · May 2005

The security light should be flashing when the system is armed, that is a visual indicator that there is in fact a security system installed in the car.

Cheers Pat.

tsy · May 2005

Coming from a Saab the Impreza and Forester might be a little unrefined. I would think one of the H6 OBs would be a nice comfortable car, but they come with leather. Otherwise a 2.5i legacy would be a comfortable AWD car, about $23k, and perfomance is more than adequate.

Now, if YOU spend any time driving the car, I'd definitely recommend the Turbo!

I've had my '05 GT now for almost a year, drive it daily, and it still makes me smile when I spool up the turbo. Drive one, it's a blast!

tom

ps why 'mercedesstinks' ?

timo1745 · May 2005

We actually looked at the new "Saab-aru" since at the time I'd always liked Saab's, my company participates in one of the GM plans, and because I knew very little about Subarus. The 92-x was very nice, and I liked the front end and some of the interior styling better than the WRX wagon it was based off, but the price was significantly higher than the Subaru. That's when I decided to wise-up and start researching the new Subies....boy, am I glad I did! ;-) Saab's are very nice, but I've heard "real" Saab's can be very expensive to maintain; even moreso than old BMWs, and I've "been there, done that"....

Tim G.
'05 OBXTL-5MT

kyfdx · May 2005

Well.. the Saab 9-2X Aero has a $7K dealer incentive... You can buy it for less than the comparable WRX wagon...

So, if you like the WRX, then it is a no-brainer... Of course, it might not be as refined as some of the Legacy-based Subies..

Good luck!

ateixeira · May 2005

Only recently, but 9-2x prices have actually dipped lower than WRX prices, even if you're not eligible for one of those plans.

-juice

jeffer · May 2005

I test drove an LL the other day. Cool vehicle, handled well and PLENTY of zip. There were only 2 things that detracted from the overall experience. One was that the seat seemed a little short as far as leg support. I think I could live with that. The other was the sound system which, IMHO, was pretty bad. The sound was very muddy and lacked clarity, although I only fiddled with the settings a little. Now mind you I'm currently driving a Nissan with a Bose system and I admit to being spoiled rotten by it. But once you have tasted the sweet sounds of clarity and beautiful separation it's very hard to desend into the murky depths again.
Ergo my question is (I know this has been posted before but hoping to get some updated info) - does the sub-woof help much? and/or - what aftermarket options are available and where can I buy them? I don't need 8,000 watts or anything, just something with some good clean sound. I mostly listen to contemporary rock and classical music. I'm looking at the LL Bean Outback Wagon.
thanks for your responses,
Jeffer

priggly · May 2005

I agree.

I test drove a new 3.0R VDC Outback a couple of days ago. This is the one with the subwoofer and the "Premium upgrade" speakers. The sound was flat-out TERRIBLE and easily ranked among the WORST audio systems I have ever heard in a car. This represents a marked deterioration in the audio system compared to the days of the McIntosh system. This car costs $45,000 here in Canada and for that you get a really ROTTEN audio system. This is inexcusable and highly disingenuous of Subaru to refer to this really BAD audio system as "premium." The only thing premium about it is the price. IMO the entire system needs to be replaced, especially the speakers. But then, the head unit only puts out, I believe, 160 watts which in this day and age is puny, so that replacement speakers sans a head unit replacement would have to be extremely efficient. A truly very disappointing audio system in an otherwise commendable car, although the H-6 engine could use considerably more low-end torque.

jeffer · May 2005

The LL could also use a little more low-end torque. And I agree the sound is pretty bad, the LL I drove did not have the so called "Premium" sound. But 160 watts is not really that dis-respectable in terms of power. I have a Bose system in my Nissan Maxima and it is said to have 200 watts. I think 80 of those go to the sub-woofer so that leaves 120 for the other speakers. And I can tell you that this is the best sounding stereo I've ever owned. The sound is fantastic, if you like clear crisp reproduction with good separation and tons of depth. Occasionally I feel it is under-powered but most of the time I do not need to turn it all the way up so it is plenty loud for most normal driving conditions. Only at high speed on the highway does it seem to lack some umph.
So 160 watts should not be the issue as much as just the muddiness of the sound. I will give it another test and fiddle with the adjustments to see if that helps. Maybe drive a VDC to see how the "Premium" sounds and if that is passable then I supposed I could upgrade the LL stock audio. They are selling this particular LL for $28K so that seems like a good deal. Anyone's thoughts on that?
Thanks
Jeffer

sduford · May 2005

I assume you only listened to the radio? I agree the radio sucks, but if you put a CD in, it's not so bad. Certainly not premium, but acceptable.

Several people on another forum have replaced the speakers (6.5") with Boston Acoustics, Polks, or MB Quarts to good results. If you buy speakers that have around 92dB efficiency the head unit should work fine.

Of course if you like bone crunching bass and mind numbing loudness, this system will never do.

Sly

kens · May 2005

From what I understand the stock HU is tuned around the response of the stock speakers so upgrading the speakers alone could make the audio sound worse.

Some folks over at legacygt.com are looking into a new product called Cleansweep. It's a LOC with some fancy electronics that basically provide you with a completely flat response to feed into your aftermarket HU.

Ken

sesquiped · May 2005

My wife and I test drove an LL Bean Outback this weekend (comparing it to a Mazda6 wagon). Liked it on the whole but we (especially she) disliked the wood steering wheel. Is it possible to have that wheel removed and replaced with one from one of the other models? We prefer the 6 cylinder, and it appears the VDC has this "feature" as well.

Any general comments on either the Suburu or Mazda reliability? We are coming from a near flawless honda civic (only tires, brakes and the cadilidic converter in 7 years 120k miles of ownership). Our priorities are 1. Wagon body type; 2. merging power (prefer the 6 cyl - 4 cyl tend to get weaker over time); 3. reliability; 4. Safety; 5. Price; 6. Styling.

Thanks.

ateixeira · May 2005

priggly: so, tell us how you feel about the audio system.

My kids want to hear "Elmo Live" so even Bose can't save me.

Mazda vs. Subaru: generally both are very reliable but the Mazda6 has really fallen in the ratings and CR no longer even recommends it. Early on there wre complaints of "staining", i.e. rust, on the door jambs, but I'm not sure what else has caused the drop in reliability.

The Miata and Mazda3 rate better, and the 3 comes in a handy 4 door, but it's a lot smaller.

The Subies give you AWD and engines that have better torque characteristics, but they'll cost a little bit more.

-juice

sweet_subie · May 2005

1. Mazda6's ride is very stiff compared to OB. Noisy engine as well. Mazdas have terrible resale value, i am finding it the hard way on my MPV.

2. Wait for H6 base models coming in 2006 without wood/leather etc. it shoudl be here in oct/nov.

ateixeira · May 2005

That's right, in 2006 they're changing the engine strategy a bit. The H6 base model with have cloth, while the turbos will come in LTD models only.

-juice

erickson00 · May 2005

I don't like the stock system in my 2005 GT Limited, either. But if I was you, I wouldn't spend $229 plus installation for a crappy Subaru subwoofer. You'll pay nearly $400 for an 8 inch woofer that won't improve the clarity of your sound.

I'm setting aside about $1,200 for an audio system, although you could probably do it for half that and be thrilled with what you get out of it. For the best sound, you need component speakers in the front, and they should be amplified. Crutchfield offers a wide variety of speakers, amps, and subwoofers. They're a bit pricey at crutchfield.com, but you could at least go there to see what fits your vehicle, then shop around the internet.

I would concentrate on:

Set of component speakers for front - $200
Rear speakers - $100 - $150
4 channel amplifier - $200-$250
Wiring kit - $75

If you want extra bottom end, get a 5 channel amplifier and hook up a sub to it.

Think about it - how much time do you spend in your car? An hour each day? More? I have always had a $1,000 plus sound system in each of my cars, and I could never be satisfied with the crappy sound that comes from a stock sytem. It's definitely worth the money.

That's what I'm doing!

sesquiped · May 2005

That's interesting about the 06 coming with a cloth option. I like the leather but could easily live without it. My wife is indifferent to the leather but dislikes the wood wheel. I thought we might get an after-market product to wrap it, but that might be worse.

We saw the bit in CR about the mazda declining on reliability, but they didn't elaborate what the driver was. Interesting if it was rust. Not too hard to fix, but a concern for a Massachusett's driver.

We liked the interior styling of the Mazda a lot (telescoping wheel was nice). I thought the Subaru was a little more thoughtful in some of their little things (wiper defrosters, color coded fluid lids under the hood, the cover over the spare tire), and had better features (awd, standard safety stuff) that may or may not match its higher price. Since we are a drive it into the ground household (only selling the civic because a baby is on the way) if the reliability was higher and the suburu would last longer/cheaper than the mazda, the initial price difference would be mitigated.

I'll have to look around for some more info on the 06 Outback. All I see is Tribeca 06 stuff on google. Don't suppose the legacy will have a 6 cyl in 06, we don't need the ground clearance.

Thanks again. S

ateixeira · May 2005

We think a Legacy Spec B might be on the way, but we're not sure.

-juice

kens · May 2005

If you don't need the ground clearance and were looking at the LL Bean for passing power, have you considered the Legacy GT wagon or even the Outback XT?

Both models use a turbocharged four cylinder engine that makes more power across a wider RPM band than the H6. Also, the turbo-four in these models have been over engineered for it's application. They use the same engine block and internals as the 300HP WRX STi.

Also, these two models use a thicker and smaller radius leather wrapped steering wheel from Momo. I also like it better than the wood trim on the H6 models.

Ken

sesquiped · May 2005

I haven't test driven the turbo fours. I see the specs showing the same hp and more torque. The thing I wonder is will this power stay decline during the period of ownership. The 98 civic had a zippy 4 cyl in the begining, but overtime, it became less so, and now struggles with hills, etc. Similar story with the dodge shadow (I know) I had once upon a time.

My mother has an earlier outback (the year before the introduced the h6 engine) and complains that it lacks power compared to her old V6 camry wagon. Admittedly, none of these vehicles are turbo charged, and engineering is a bit different these days - - but this is the reason we have been only looking at 6 cylinder wagons. Any comments?

Thanks again for the input. S

kens · May 2005

It's not uncommon for an engine to gradually lose power over time as the ability of the cylinders to hold compression goes down. However, I don't see how that would be any worse with a 4-cylinder engine compared to a 6.

The previous generation Outback did have a power-to-weight disadvantage especially with the base 165HP 4-cylinder engine. While it was fine with an Impreza RS or Forester application, it was at it's limits with the heavier Outback chassis. That was the main criticism that led Subaru to introduce the H6, and then with the 2005 remodel add a turbo option as well as reduce chassis weight.

I think it would be worth your time to try the turbo models. As the specs indicate, they not only produce more torque, but do so from a lower RPM. The H6's 219 ft.-lbs. of torque is available at 4200RPM vs. 250 ft.-lbs@3600RPM for the turbo.

Also, the Legacy GT costs LESS than the H6 models as well as the OBXT.

The only thing to keep in mind is that not everyone likes the power delivery of a turbo. A normally aspirated engine like the H6 will pull in a linear fashion from a standstill. With the turbo, you'll start out gently but notice an exponential power increase once you approach the range where the turbo is fully spooled and delivering boost (2500-3000RPM).

Ken

ateixeira · May 2005

A 6 just has more power to begin with. So when it begins to lose compression, it still might be making adequate power. A 4 with the same loss might not seem adequate.

But a turbo? Even the early 90s Legacys would give you 100-120k miles before a rebuild, and the newer ones are a whole lot more efficient, with much better cooling. So I think it'll outlast most of the other components, i.e. something else will fail first.

That hill would be interesting, because at altitude the H6 would lose power, while the turbo might not - it would just bleed less excess boost. So my guess is it's the turbo that will feel gutsier at 80k miles going up that steep ascent.

-juice

jeffer · May 2005

erickson00 - I totally agree, I have the Bose system in my Nissan and I am very happy with it 98% of the time. Occasionally I wish I could crank it up a bit more but the clarity and separation are awe inspiring. I listen to more classical music now that I've topped the big 50 and you can almost feel the vibration of the strings as the bow goes across them. Or hear the guy in the 3rd row horn section. Not to mention how great Pearl Jam, Wall Flowers, Green Day, Stone Temple Pilots, Stones, Joe Cocker and the others sound. Plus you get the added benefit of screaming your lungs out along with them. Yee Ha!
Thanks for the recommendations on what to get and were to go. I used to even get the Crutchfield catalog but had forgotten about them. I will keep them in mind. I did call Tweeter and they recommended Boston Acoutics for speakers but didn't say anything about the HU.
Keep on Rockin' or Hopin' or Bopin' - whatever your gig is.
Jeffer

sweet_subie · May 2005

one more point. Outback earned 5 star safety in crash testing.
Outback has much better suspension than the legacy & stand bad roads easily.

francophile · May 2005

Outback has much better suspension than the legacy & stand bad roads easily.
??? The cars have essentially the same underpinnings. The Outback has more rubber wrapped around the rims and higher ground clearance, the Legacy has better cornering and smoother on-road manners. Different objectives, not better or worse.

-wdb

sesquiped · May 2005

Funny you mention that - - I was looking at the NHTSA site last night, and noticed that the 05 legacy hadn't been tested yet (the 04 had, with more 4 star than 5 star ratings, but I know the 05 is a redesigned animal). I would assume the new legacy would do well, but was unsure if the grading curve at NHTSA was different for cars classified as SUV vs passenger cars.

We are traveling this weekend, but sounds like we'll have some test driving to do soon to compare the Legacy and Outback turbo 4's, and find out if they will do, or if we should wait for the cloth interior 2006 H6's.

kens · May 2005

I'll have to call you on that one too.

The Outback suspension has been designed for light off-road ability by making use of increased ground clearance and a long travel suspension. However, the same long travel suspension results in relatively more body roll an dive/squat during spirited on-road driving.

In contrast, the Legacy GT suspension has been designed for better on-road ability with stiffer struts and lower profile wheels. I'd never want to take a GT down a rutted fire road!

The Outback and Legacy have not been tested by the same agency. The Outback has been tested by the NHSTA, while the Legacy by the IIHS.

Ken

ateixeira · May 2005

It's a vague term, do we mean max cornering Gs? Slalom speed? Transitional handling? Feedback? Ability to handle rough roads/bumps? Ability to carry a load and not have the handling deteriorate?

For instance, the Outback can better "handle" a speed bump, but the Legacy GT can better handle a sharp curve with smooth pavement.

-juice

alpha01 · May 2005

About Mazdas- the line overall may be slipping in reliability rankings, but certain models, the outstanding 3 comes to mind- have both top notch reliability and excellent resale value. Sweeping statements dont hold true in all cases.

14K miles on our 05 Legacy 2.5i 4EAT Sedan, and averaging just under 25 MPG in a fair mix of city highway. No problems since our last major repair, a good thing, and Subaru customer service continues to be awesome. Happy overall. The only qualms I have with the car involve the dumpy auto transmission response, and very VERY sluggish pull off the line (maybe this is good for young families- you could recite an entire bedtime story by the time the car hits 25 MPH). The vehicle continues to amaze me with its ride/handling response, its the best I've ever experienced, seemingly with zero tradeoff, especially given the price.

Joe

krzyss · May 2005

Krzys

PS Diffrent is not worse or better. One's better is somebody's worse.

subden · May 2005

I know this came up earlier, but just curious if anyone is having an anti-freeze smell after shutting a 2005 OB XT off.

Craig, I know you had mentioned it earlier. Are you still having it? Any additional issues along this line.

I suspect it is likely a loose coolant clamp or something around the turbo or exhasut, but maybe it is just odor from the overflow tank somehow. Just want to make sure it doesn't develop into an issue before I take off on a 2-week trip.

Thanks.

wholiday · May 2005

I'm down to a vdc new at invoice (is that good or am I getting taken?),
or a used very low miles audi allroad.
Have people here been happy with their 05 VDC limited wagons?
Seems road noise, rear leg room are negative,
while with audi, it's higher maintenance costs, lower milage
Any thoughts or assistance is appreciated.
Cheers,
Wade

sduford · May 2005

Tha Allroad is a very nice car. I'd be very leary of the reliability though. Make sure you have a good extended warranty and a dealer nearby.

Sly

saedave · May 2005

I traded a 2002 Passat W8 wagon..somewhat similar to the Allroad on a new 2005 VDC at the end of last year. The reason for the rather early trade with low miles on the W8 was its unacceptable electrical reliability.This was not just the coils, but a failure of connectors under the dash that required complete removal of the dashboard for repair. It failed to start four times and once away on a 2000 mile trip.

My comparison of the VDC to the W8: The VDC engine is smoother with a more linear throttle; ride is not quite as smooth over small pertubations but much better over railroad tracks and potholes. My aging back prefers the Outback seat and such things as tie down hooks, storage compartments, etc. are superior. City mpg is MUCH better in the VDC. Highway mpg is slightly better. The audio system is incredibly better than in the Passat and includes MP3 for protection against obsolescence as well as for your own-recorded music.

The only negatives are slightly smaller back seat and light colored leather and floor mats.

goose · May 2005

Hi all, I'm working on buying a 2.5i OB. During the test drive I noticed the stereo is a little weak. Anyone bought the optional sub? I see that the 2.5i limited comes with a 6 CD receiver and six speakers. Does the 2.5i come with four speakers? The center console is one piece, how upgradeable is the sound system in these things? Any assistance is greatly appreciated. I live in Tucson, AZ but buying from a Phoenix dealer.

For the record I was going to buy a Scion tC. I'm glade I had a one month wait on the tC. It gave me lots of time to consider other options. Unfortunately the tC doesn't like dirt roads let alone rough dirt roads so its slowly went off the list. The Xterra 2005 was my next option but I don't like the gas mileage. Plus it's a truck and I don't want a truck ride. I believe the 2.5i is a very good balance between those to vehicles. Plus is gets nice gas mileage for a SUV.

sweet_subie · May 2005

It seems like OB stereo is intergrated as part of the the instrumentation. does this mean we can;t change the audio system with aftermarket ? what happens if the system does bad ? anyone ?

rsorganize · May 2005

30,000 nearly perfect miles on '05 VDC wagon, in 11+ months. Not sure about road noise being a negative?? Had Volvo XC ('99) and the VDC seems significantly quieter. While driving, I'm often struck by the quiet ride - even during the winter on winter tires. Handling is great (better than the XC) and the quickness of the car - especially accelerating at higher speeds - is fantastic.

My guess is that evan a low mileage, used Allroad would be as much as $6-10,000 more. Yes, it will be roomier all around and, probably, will have quite a few more appealing extras (stereo, memory seats, etc.). But, hard to see how it's worth the extra $$ (assuming $$ is a concern), particularly with the reliability/repair costs issues.

Peace,
rsorganize

frog · May 2005

I think you will be very pleased with the ride and handling of the outback in all conditions. Near luxury. The sound system has been an issue with many buyers. I am not sure what the wattage is on the 05, or how easy it would be to change the head unit. Maybe the dealer could do a swap? I have the base system in the 04 legacy, and it sounds pretty good, but to each there own. I have heard mixed reports on the sub.
Frog

ssminton · May 2005

I am very happy with my '05 VDC that I purchased last July. I am up to 25K miles, and ownership has been a great experience. I have been very happy with the VDC driving experience, especially on wet/snow covered roads. The VDC is also built well for activity driving... for example, strong factory roof racks that handle a roof box in a very stable manner, covered bumper so that you can step on it without a problem, good underbody and lower rocker panel protection from flying road debris. The de-icing system for the wipers is also a plus!

I have also been impressed by how well the light colored leather and interior has held up. I spend much of the winter with mud/salt covered boots on and with activities am often a bit covered in dirt. The car cleans up easily and still looks "new" today.

occking · May 2005

That's right!! Went shopping for a power washer yesterday. Didn't want to spend a fortune, but something for $400 or so that would do the job around the house. Wa all set to buy one with a 5 hp Honda engine at Home Depot--their most popular model. Than I noticed one by Ryobi with a Subaru motor! The HP was 7 compared to the Honda 5, and the PSI was 3000 compared to the 2600 on the Honda. But, what cinched the deal was a "comsumer" 3 year warranty vs 1 year for the Honda, vs as little as 90 days for some of the other models with Briggs & Stratton motors. As a Subie owner (2.5 ltd 3.5 months over 13k) miles just had to have it.

sduford · May 2005

That's right, it is integrated with the ACC system and can only be replaced with a similar system.

goose · May 2005

Is this integrated system the same for all OB's?

sduford · May 2005

The VDC is different (play's MP3s). I imagine the cars with no ACC must be different.

ateixeira · May 2005

Wild, I wonder if FHI actually makes that or if they just help market/distribute.

Does it say where it's made?

-juice

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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