Volkswagen Jetta 2006+

alpha01 · February 2005

Awesome perspective, thank you very much. Still, there's no defending the poor power/economy tradeoff, even if the car moves out 'smartly'. I understand that it is an adequate base engine, but when you have a merely adequate base engine powering a vehicle in the mid-20K range, that becomes unimpressive.

Also, thanks for clarifying that you can get the stability control on the Value Edition- this is something not readily shown on the brochure I picked up yesterday, and the Value Edition I was in did not have it.

~alpha

dudleyr · February 2005

The TDI is available for those who want economy. No doubt that the 2.5 uses a bit of fuel, but about the same as the above referenced TSX, and much less than the Legacy GT (a true guzzler). Yes the Avalon is astounding as is the Accord and Camry with their 4-cyl engines. They are all trumped by the TDI though.

Off topic, but it would be nice if Honda brought over their 2.2l diesel for the Accord.

bricknord · February 2005

Well, I hear what you are saying, but still think that when clients drive the 2.5, they will think the engine is fine. I don't think the mid-20K range is high. If I'm not mistaken, that is where the average new car transaction is these days, right in the $26k range. So, when you buy a new Jetta 2.5, you will receive a car with driving dynamics, interior, and safety features far above the average $26k car.

The goal of the new Jetta is not to be a hot rod in 2.5 form. The goal of the 2.5 is to have a car with superior road-holding, handling, safety, and fit-and-finish, while improving on several MK4 Jetta weak points, notably space and power:weight. The goal is also to appeal to a broader range of buyers than the Jetta A4. We lost a lot of clients on the old car since it was just plain too small. We lost some other clients because features like SAT RAD, power seats, etc were not available. We lost some more because the 2.0L 4 cyl car with 4 speed automatic FELT underpowered to drive. Regardless of paper numbers, the new 2.5L that I drove did not FEEL underpowered in any circumstance where I drove it. I'm confident that the 2.0T engine soon to be released will entertain those who want above-average power.

Oh, and by the way, regarding being able to buy a used 3-series BMW for the price of a Jetta...hop you live in Phoenix. My friend and co-worker in the office next to me leased a 3-series last fall. Not long ago, we had 2-3 inches of snow and a little ice, actually a very, very mild snow. He tells me that he's never driven a car with such poor bad-weather handling. According to him, the car is useless in any sort of snow or ice. He indicates to me that the traction control basically stops the car from going anywhere. He now hates the car due the lack of any semblance of foul-weather capability. He's looking to sell the car. Admittedly, the car drives like a champ on a dry road! But, at least here in Kansas City, we have snow, ice, and rain from time to time, and the car is just miserable under those circumstances. And, his car has the leatherette interior, which to me looks incredibly cheap and unbefitting a BMW, not to mention it feels like plastic! ;>)

Anyway, alpha, thanks for your feedback from your Auto Show, it is interesting for someone in my position to hear.

Matt

jeffyscott · February 2005

Thanks for the detailed perspective. We would be amongst those who would not have considered the old Jetta, but will consider the new one. Don't like plastic seating surfaces or even leather. We don't want anything fancy in a car anyway, so the value edition would meet our needs. Looking forward to seeing it at local auto show in a few weeks.

I have not seen the new Jetta in person, to me it looks fine in pictures. I agree with you that there was nothing special about the styling of the outgoing model...I would not call it ugly, it was just a car with an innocuous appearance...as the new one appears to be. I don't really know what the Jetta III looked like.

The 2.0 seemed underpowered to me even with a manual. I test drove one in a used ~'96 Jetta 4-5 years ago and felt it was very sluggish when accelerating from a stop.

alpha01 · February 2005

Agreed that the Legacy is a guzzler, but at least you get something in return- sub 6 runs to 60. And at 19/25, I feel thats a fair tradeoff. The TSX is rated at 24/31 with the auto, I believe, and its offers more scoot than the Jetta does, just a different powerband.

~alpha

alpha01 · February 2005

The 26K mark is the average purchase price for all vehicles, including SUVs. When you look at sedans available at the bracket, nearly all them offer a better performance/economy tradeoff. As I noted, the Jetta's materials are excellent. But, I dont find your statement "So, when you buy a new Jetta 2.5, you will receive a car with driving dynamics, interior, and safety features far above the average $26k car." particularly true, except for MAYBE driving dynamics. Additionally, VW cant claim any reliability advances of late, as they are still behind the average according to JD Power and Consumer Reports, the two most widely consulted publications for that data.

The goals of the new Jetta are obvious, and VW should be commended for looking to resolve the issues. Personally, I think VW lost a lot of clients on the last Jetta because it was around forever. If you did two year leases, you could have leased the same basic car THREE TIMES (that was stated in BusinessWeek, I cant claim that thought as original). VW couldnt have had a bigger Jetta at the lat go-round, either, as that would have made the Passat redundant. My feeling is that people wanting a larger Jetta probably went to the Passat.

About the BMW- they're not know for all-weather capability. But, that's why they're offered with AWD. Coupled with snow tires, I doubt it would be as horrible as your colleague states. BMW does provide the choice, after all. Does VW offer a Jetta 4Motion? Maybe you lost sales because of that?

I wish VW success, as I really liked the last gen-Jetta, but for a redesign, I'm not impressed.

~alpha

bricknord · February 2005

Does the average $26k car have stability control as standard? Front, side, and head curtain airbags, and curtains for front and rear occupants? Are rear seat side airbags offered as an option on most $26k cars? Have you driven the new Jetta to comment on driving dynamics?

Agreed, the old Jetta had reliability issues. However, they were blown out of proportion statistically due to two major problems which occurred over a relatively short span: window regulators and 1.8T ignition coils. As far as the new Jetta goes, time will tell if improvements have been made.

Let's think about how many people in the real world do 2-year leases. I'll bet it is less than 10% of all lessees. The vast majority of leases are 36 or 48 months. You could use the same logic on most models of cars, if you use the 2-year lease rule. If you had leased a Honda Civic every 2 years, you aren't changing much either. This makes no sense for Business Week to use this as a comment, since nobody ( relatively ) does a 2-year lease.

I know BMW are available with AWD. But, you won't find too many used 330xi sedans in the Jetta price range ( mid 20's ) I'd think. The AWD BMWs are priced way, way above the Jetta, and the Jetta was never intended to compete with a 3xi. Of course, you run into fuel economy issues, insurance cost issues, maintanence cost issues, etc, when comparing a used BMW 3x with a new Jetta. I don't think the used 3x compares favorably, or would be cross-shopped by many at all in the real world. A person shopping a 3x would in all likelihood look at a Passat 4-motion, not a Jetta. I really don't think VW lost a significant number of sales due to lack of AWD, at all. VW offers the choice in Passats.

Although the 3-series is not known for all-weather abiility, such ability is a priority for the vast majority of drivers. Also, most drivers don't need or desire AWD or desire to pay for it. In the current market, a FWD car will be what appeals to the distinct majority.

Understood that you are not impressed with the redesign, and I respect your opinion. I've owned Mk1, 2, 3, and a couple Mk4 Jettas personally, from 1983 to 2003 models. I'll tell you, having driven the Mk5, it blows away any of my previous Jettas in 95% of areas, no contest.

We'll see what the public thinks when they get to DRIVE the cars!

Matt

a_l_hubcaps · February 2005

I read recently that the new Jetta has bolt-on door skins. That means if you need to access the inside of the door for repairs (such as window regulators! ha!) you don't have to take the whole door apart from the inside. Also, anyone can swap a dented door skin without having to pay a body shop big money to cut and weld. I think this is a great idea. It's not often that you see a manufacturer deliberately make their cars easier to repair. These days, it seems like quite the opposite most of the time.

-Andrew L

alpha01 · February 2005

The 2006 Hyundai Sonata will have stability control, driver, passenger, and side curtains standard, as well as an optional 3.3L 230+ horse V6 and 5 speed auto- all under 26 grand.

And I NEVER once said anything about the Jetta's driving dynamics, and stated numerous times that this is likely to be the strong point of the vehicle.

About the BW comment- I believe it was actually a VW rep who made that statement, commenting on allowing the Jetta to remain essentially unchanged for too long. I dont have the issue anymore so I cannot say for sure, but if Im in the library studying anytime soon, I'll be sure to check it out for you.

I made the BMW comment to prove a point that maybe, just maybe the German driving experience isnt worth the tradeoffs of the new Jetta- and those looking for the experience might do better to check out a certified pre-owned 3 seriers. I dont think they are that hard to come by, even one with AWD.

"I'll tell you, having driven the Mk5, it blows away any of my previous Jettas in 95% of areas, no contest."

Im not arguing that. No doubt it is better. Im arguing that it may not justify purchase against competitors that offer similar amounts of safety, room, sytle, handling, but with better efficiency/power and at more attractive prices and better reliability.

Its not like I'm out of left field on this one- have you seen the prelim reviews from MT and Car and Driver?

I respect your opinion as well, I'm just disappointed because the compact/midsize 4 door is where my money will most likely go when I next purchase in a year or 2.

~alpha

venus537 · February 2005

but the jetta will most likely drive so much better than the sonata and its interior won't be plastered with all that cheesy wood plastic.

cars are not yet commodities and just because two cars have the same features doesn't mean they're the equal of each other. i'll be sure to check out the new sonata but something tells me that new jetta will be a superior engineered car.

i guess it depends on your priorities.

venus537 · February 2005

i too want to thank you for your perspective.

you wouldn't happen to know when the 2.0t model is suppose to be available?

this is the car that will standout from the competition!

lmx · February 2005

the 2.0l turbo is going to be available in about 2 or 3 months...

i drove the 2.5l 5cyl this morning...really up to my expectations!!! it was a base model,but the ride is amazing,the new 6 speed tranny is quite good but the best thing about this car is the new rear suspension,the ride is firm,the car handles like a real vw....i am really impress by the new interior (really big)

the engine has a beautiful sond a bit like the old 5 cyl. audi very special...and feels faster than what all the reviews said!!!i would say o-60 sec in 7.5 to 8 seconds....nice

what i didn't like is the 15 inch hub caps...but again entry level should be about the car not the wheels,

final first drive note 8 on 10

very good car

venus537 · February 2005

the engine has a beautiful song a bit like the old 5 cyl. audi very special...and feels faster than what all the reviews said!!!i would say o-60 sec in 7.5 to 8 seconds....nice

there hasn't been any actual instrument testing done on the car from the reviews i've read. i believe all these "first drive" reviews are just rehashing VW's claimed 0-60 acceleration figure of 9.1 seconds.

lmx · February 2005

your right about the 9.1 sec i've seen it too,but i can tell you right now that vw has always been conservative about their horsepower numbers and o-60 times in the past...from my perspective it seems a lot faster then 9.1 sec...(i was alone with a quarter of gas left) and i was at the red line for every shift....again the sound and speed are higher than what i was expecting

a_l_hubcaps · February 2005

I checked out the new Jetta at the Philly auto show on Friday. I particularly looked over the "affordable" $22,000 model they had on the floor, since that's about the price point where most current Jettas are selling. I have to say, I was not terribly impressed. The exterior styling was reasonable and inoffensive, but it lacked the continuity and cohesiveness of the current Jetta. I think the Jetta IV is a J Mays design, and he is very good at that. His cars always look like there is not a line out of place; everything is tied together. The Jetta V does not give that impression. You can't look at the front and guess what the back will look like, the way you can with the Jetta IV and some other Mays designs like the Ford FIve Hundred and the New Beetle. Also, there is an unmistakeably Toyota-like character to the Jetta V design. It's not a copy of the Corolla, but it's clear in what direction the designers were looking. I actually liked the chrome grille and the taillights -- they were at least some distinctive elements that keep the car from looking totally generic.

As for the interior: it was nice, but it wasn't that nice. I also sat in an Accord LX and a Cobalt LT, both cheaper than this Jetta, and I would say both of those cars had at least equally good interior quality and appearance. I would say the Accord had similar appearance and maybe slightly better quality than the Jetta, and the Cobalt had slightly worse quality but slightly better appearance (what can I say, I'm a sucker for fake wood.) Considering that those cars cost $2000 less than the Jetta, I know which one I wouldn't buy.

The one thing that surprised me in a positive direction was the size of the Jetta's trunk. It's positively huge, which is a nice plus.

Anyway, the performance and handling on the new Jetta had better be unbelievable or they will have a tough time selling them at that price. VW is no longer operating in an environment where small American cars are a joke and Japanese cars are markedly less stylish than VWs.

-Andrew L

venus537 · February 2005

i sat in the cobalt and thought its interior was no where near the jetta in appearance nor quality. strongly disagree with that comparison! much improved over the cavalier but still unmistakably a typical non cadillac GM product.

i love my accords and spend much time defending them against the naysayers but i would say the jetta's interior has a slightly higher quality interior. and the accord's interior ambiance is highly regarded with only the passat being considered better at these prices.

i don't consider the jetta's interior perfect however. it's using the same carpet as the previous model which seems out of place with the rest of the car. and what's up with all those bottoms for the stereo?

i don't want to offend anybody but i think i'm going to with the next sentence. it's a little arrogant for one to say a car will not sell because one personally believes the car is bland looking.

what's disturbing to me are some early reports of high wind/road noise at speed and an annoying sounding engine that feels sluggish. i think we can all agree that these are not desirable traits and this may be what hurts sales. this may be okay with a neon but not in a $22k Jetta!

this car is still in a class by itself among small cars for features and quality (not the reliability aspect of quality obviously). VW desperately needs to turn around their reliability. i'll expect glitches with the new model but they'll need to get fixed right away and stay fixed!

the current jetta is the only car that i know that started out well but got worse reliability wise as the model years went by.

shado4 · February 2005

I second the VW reliability issue. I owned a 2000 VW GTI 1.8T that made unscheduled trips to the service department for broken window regulators (both driver and passenger side windows at different times), a malfunctioning cruise control switch, a driver's door that refused to unlock with the remote, and a driver's side door speaker that buzzed.

I traded it in after 2 years for a Hyundai Elantra, in part because I was actually AFRAID to power down the side windows for fear that they would not come back up again! How can you enjoy a car that has great power, rich quality materials, and unique and pleasing features when you look at the power window switch with apprehension every time you press it?

The Elantra has spent way less time in the service department. The only reliability issues have been a stuck CD in the head unit and some prematurely burned out headlight bulbs. True, the Elantra is not as fun to drive as the GTI, but I don't have the ulcers anymore that seem to come with owning a VW.

I saw the new Jetta at the auto show and was somewhat impressed with the little nuances and features that make a VW unique. However, I most likely will not buy one. You get one chance to make a good impression, and VW failed me the first time around.

a_l_hubcaps · February 2005

I don't mean to be snarky, but I'm starting to think that the alleged interior-quality gap between GM and foreign competitors is all in people's heads. Sure, GM interiors were junk in the mid-90s, but I checked out a lot of cars at the auto show, with particular attention paid to the interiors, and I really didn't see a deficit in the GM cars. The only ones that didn't impress me much were the Pontiacs, and that was more a styling issue than a parts quality issue (I am not a fan of the "jet cockpit" look that Pontiac uses). All of the recently-redone Chevys and the Buick LaCrosse had excellent interiors in my opinion. And when you think about it, there's really no good reason why this shouldn't be the case. It's not like VW and Honda have secret interior-component materials that nobody else can use. These days, everybody gets their parts from the same suppliers. As for the Cobalt, I admit that there are some components that are a tad cheaper than the Jetta's (remember, they have to support at $14,000 model with the same parts and VW does not), but the overall look of the interior was more pleasing to me in the Cobalt than the VW. The Cobalt had lots of chrome and wood and contrasting colors, whereas the VW looked very black and Spartan. Everything felt good to the touch, but there was no character to its appearance.

-Andrew L

alpha01 · February 2005

Excellent post. I couldnt agree with you more- for some reason, the new Pontiac interiors seem downmarket, whereas the new Chevys (excepting the Colorado) and more so the new Buicks, look great, and for the most part feel excellent as well.

And thats been my point regarding the new Jetta- an interior with strong materials quality and fit and finish is no longer as unique as it was in 1999 when the current debuted. And that isnt going to be enough to earn this Jetta respect.

~alpha

aveman · February 2005

I was most impressed with the Jetta of all the cars I was interested at the show. was not crazy about the big bright chrome slab on the front bumper, but the rest of the car had a hold over me. I am aware of VW reliability problems but I like the car so much I would test dive it. The value edition would be the only one I could shoot for.I looked at cheaper smaller cars. would like to think that VW chose the 2.5 liter because it was based on an existing reliable engine. I tend to believe the half a Gallardo V10 engine which shares a block design with an Audi V8. If their were compromises made in fuel economy etc. It had better be made up for in reliability. I will see for myself how the engine performs.I don't think VW could stand a clean sheet engine program. with theer reliabilty risk.VW needs to clear up the engine origin and reasoning for the choice.

venus537 · February 2005

Sure, GM interiors were junk in the mid-90s, but I checked out a lot of cars at the auto show, with particular attention paid to the interiors, and I really didn't see a deficit in the GM cars



well we'll have to agree to disagree on this. no doubt general motors have improved their interiors but they're still no where near VW's or even Honda's standards. i'll say the buick lacrosee has its merits though.

automakers may get some of their parts from the same suppliers but it doesn't follow they would provide the same level of interior component quality. the automakers are involved with the design process of these parts and dictate the quality tolerances.



And that isn't going to be enough to earn this Jetta respect



alpha01:

perhaps not with you, but with me and others it does. it's still a level above the others IMO.

alpha01 · February 2005

I'm not sure how its a class above the others, but, just as I have mine, you are entitled to your opinion.

I know that a similarly optioned Mazda 3 is significantly cheaper and has a smaller rear seat... a similarly equipped Mazda 6 V6 is about the same as a 2.5L Package 2. Oh, and it offers a 6 speed automatic.

And yes, of course the drive does weigh heavily- and I'm guessing this Jetta will drive quite nicely. Repeatedly, I've noted that, in my opinion, it would HAVE to be the drive that seals the deal for any non-die hard Jetta loyalist- on paper and in person, this Jetta does not offer strong value OR somewhat unique, appeals-to-youth styling (as did the last generation). Nor does it have the interior materials quality lead that it once did. Nor does VW have reliability on its side. From initial reports, the 2.5L is not very refined, either. The rear seat is nicely sized, though, as is the trunk, and the front end is attractive if a bit stately (perhaps not what this market is looking for?)

Note, I'm stating this all as my opinion, as I know its not fact.. but in the reviews so far, which have met the new Jetta with tepid praise.... theres not much to be enthusiastic about either.

I'm sure its a very good car. I just don't think its nearly as distinct as the 1999 when it debuted. I dont see the competitive advantages. I remember thinking as a senior in High School, wow, Id really like to have that car one day. Then the Jetta just kept getting older. Not that I could have afforded one 2 years ago, but I guess given the time lapse between now and my senior year, I expected a lot more.

But maybe its the lenses through which Im looking at this car. Is this really the new Jetta? Or is it supposed to be the new version of the old Passat? Does VW know? Maybe I'd like it better if I thought it to be aimed at an older clientele. If this car was aimed at waxing-35 or 40-somethings, I think I might like it a bit better. But, I can't shake the notion that this vehicle, whether I like it or not... is aimed at people like myself.... young professionals, good income, with decent but not (yet..lol) extravagant lifestyles. A great car for commuting, making the trip back up to school for Homecoming, going to the beach with a few friends, etc. All things for which the last Jetta perfectly fit the mold. I can easily see either of the two aformentioned Mazdas filling that role much more nicely, but again, my opinion.

Will this redesign be enough for VW? It wont be if its not enough for consumers.

~alpha

corvette · February 2005

I agree that the LaCrosse looks nice. Price-wise, it's closer to the Passat. And it's skimpy on safety features (no chest airbags, no rear amber turn signals, no side mounted turn signals). I might believe GM's current schtick about safety when they fix these obvious defects.

jacatlga1962 · February 2005

I'm driving an 02 Jetta after having 8 new Benzes from 1996 to 2003 and the Jetta manages to impress me usually before I factor in the fact that it cost exactly 1/3 of what I paid for the last 2 M-B's. I would be lying if I said that I didn't like the Benz better but considering the difference in cash outlay, I think the Jetta presents an impressive product. The styling is a good mix of conservative taste and youthful boy racer look.

The new one's styling? More like the mix of a Camry and Corolla! Not, what I had hoped. I can't help but wonder how the same company that produced the Bently Continental GT, the new Audi A6 could have let that funky looking little car get past them without someone yelling "foul". I hate to call it ugly but it doesn't miss it by much! One the post mentions that perhaps VW is going up market for an older better funded crowd. Let's hope! In fact, they need to look for the much older with failing eyesight crowd. I'm 42 and I'm not looking for a Subuaru WRX "over the top" boy-racer look. However, I'm looking for a little more than the benign appliance Toyota Camry/Corolla look. I agree that VW has lost some of its edge in interiors because the bar has finally been raised(thank god)however, they are still the standard that everyone else aspires to reach. It was this fanatical commitment to interior design and quality and the clean, understated, luxury car looks where what made the Jetta the success that it was. The reliability and service issues that the Germans can't quite master will always put them at a disadvantage to the Japanese. Now without the styling edge and the interior design having a more level playing field, what will bring the customers back and what will bring in all the new young customers that all car companies need to establish brand loyalty and move them into higher profit vehicles as they get older and make more money. Hopefully, the Jetta is going to drive like a 911 and sip gas like a hybrid. Otherwise, I'm thinking VW's plan for world domination just took a hit. Perhaps, a big one. I hope I don't sound like a VW "hater" because I really am big fan and this is there first misstep in 8 years. Unfortunately, as important as the Jetta is in this market, to see it become the next Mitsubishi Galant will really be sad. I don't think the new Jetta is horrible, it's that VW had hit the ball out of the park over and over again. Now, a single, is just a bit of a letdown.

allhorizon · February 2005

I think you are right in your assessment that this car is not aimed at kids in college or right out of college. It takes most people a few years after college to afford a new car, and the Jetta is not an entry-level car. I think 25-35 is probably a good guess for part of the target market, but also older people who like a comfortable, safe car that has a solid look without screaming boy racer. While it is obviously aimed at people for whom Hondas and Toyotas are not necessarily the first choice (people who like to buy something a little different), it is in my opinion still targeted at quite mainstream buyers. Dont forget that in Europe, the Jetta (Bora) has had such a blah/conservative/mainstream flair, that it has not sold very well at all. The new design and choice of base engine are clearly aimed at the US market. It may have strayed enough from its origin to disappoint some VW enthusiasts as its role has evolved, in the US. Still, I actually think it will do very well, here.

I wouldnt buy one now the same way I wouldnt have bought one a few years ago. I like quirky cars - the Jetta (in addition to being a sedan) has always been too mainstream for me. I think it really hasnt changed that much at all, some people just had different associations with it, and are just now seeing it for what it is.

The Golf and GTI are a different story.

fish8 · February 2005

Well written post......from your user name I am guessing you are also from Atlanta. I live in metro ATL as well........

venus537 · February 2005

if the jetta is guilty of anything styling wise it would be that it's not "quirky" looking anymore. it's more of a conventional looking sedan now. has the jetta ever been regarded as of thing of Beauty? distinctive perhaps.

just my opinion, the mazdas you mentioned will probably not have the solidity of the jetta. they also won't have all of the safety and comfort features of the jetta either. and the interior ambiance of those mazdas fall short of the Jetta (i guess we disagree by what extent though).

i probably think the jetta is a great value because of how i would personally equipped it if i was to get one. that would be a jetta 2.0t (package 2) w/DSG tranny. i'm fairly sure this car would sticker no higher than $28.5k. i can't think of one car that matches up with it at that price (for what i'm looking for anyway).

yes, the 2.5l isn't getting great praise but the 2.0t and DSG are getting it from the Audi A3. maybe that's the vehicle for you! very "stylish".

dudleyr · February 2005

One note about Mazda. While the 3 remains above average in the latest CR reliabity survey, the 6 is much worse than average.

alpha01 · February 2005

Actually, the Mazda 6 is 'Worse than Average' not 'Much Worse than Average'. I'm referencing the 2005 Buying Guide, or pg. 53 of the Feb issue.

~alpha

dudleyr · February 2005

The 2005 buying guide uses last years data. The reliability info from the 2005 annual auto issue (april 2005) is released in the 2005 new car guide which is not delivered via subscription (available at bookstores or direct from CR). Mazda has taken a turn for the worse. Having said that, I don't have the issue in front of me, but I can double check.

jeffyscott · February 2005

The current Jetta, that is...

Happend to see a Jetta parked next to a Hyundai Accent. They look pretty similar from the rear.

Just thought that was funny/interesting given all the hoo-ha over the new Jetta (in photos) looking similar to Corolla from the rear.

alpha01 · February 2005

"Happend to see a Jetta parked next to a Hyundai Accent. They look pretty similar from the rear."

?

In that they both have taillights? I'm sorry but I dont see much resemblance.

~alpha

alpha01 · February 2005

What about the data that is available on Consumerreports.org, in the Model Overview? That says the Mazda 3 is 'Worse than Average' as well.

My point is I don't see anything that points to a 'Much Worse than Average' rating.

~alpha

dudleyr · February 2005

I looked at the book and yes, the 6 is worse than average. The MPV is the one that is much worse than average. The 3 is much better than average. This is the latest data. CR dot org may be a little behind.

FWIW the current Jetta is the same as the Mazda 6 in reliability. The new Jetta will also be about the size of the Mazda 6.

To show how things can change, the Focus is above average for the last two model years (though it is average overall because of previous years).

aveman · February 2005

It doesn't take much to make a car seem to have bad qality.I got in two seperate Honda Civics at the auto show, and both had very defective seat back adjusters. I just jumped out of those cars. The Jetta just felt like a rock. Car and Driver magazine wanted more base engine power, but did say tthat driven sedately,in a way not to jepordize your license, that the Jetta does a good impression of a luxury car. That sounds like a complement to me. I was reading an article in the british magazine Car, They commented that the Golf GTI, being larger than the hot sporty hatches it was up against could keep up well without trying too hard. The same Magazine gave the Gallardo a hit for being very capable but too tuetonic and refined. They did not seem to like the Idea that a 500hp car should be able to have such high limits without beating you up to drive it.To me acar that can handle itself in spirited driving without being scary is my kind of fun to drive.I would hope that the new Jetta will fall right into that category.

alpha01 · February 2005

dealership today to drive the Jetta-but was unable to, as the first ones arent arriving until March 18th.

BUT, I did take a 15 minute drive in a Mazda 3s Auto, with ABS, Side Curtains, Moonroof, and 6 disc CD changer. Sticker: $20,320. The car is quick, with a refined yet fiesty engine note, has incredible steering and a firm but not harsh ride.
Visibility is excellent, and the driver's seat is great, and completely free of vinyl to boot. About the only thing I can think of that is missing from this car is electronic stability control, and even that, given the price, is forgiveable. I will note, however, that the EPA ratings are only slightly better than the Jettas- 24/29. That said, it is lighter than the Jetta, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that it wouldnt clock better than VW's estimated 9.1 seconds to 60.

For people cross shopping the Jetta 2.5L and Mazda 3s equipped as above, I think its going to have to come down to some VW loyalty.

~alpha

venus537 · February 2005

heaven forbid if someone thinks the jetta is better than the mazda 3 on its merits! unless the new jetta actually digresses from the current design there's not much WV has to worry about from the mazda 3.

alpha01 · February 2005

but I think VW would be foolish to not keep an eye on its competition. Or its prospective customer base- manufacturers dont make money by simply retaining clients they already have.

~alpha

venus537 · February 2005

i just got back from the chicago auto show and i guess i'm tired.

well anyway, i saw the audi a3 and i think it looks absolutely gorgeous. i think i'm going to forget about that stinkin jetta and get me an audi a3.

it seems like the base audi a3 will have most of the "stuff" that a loaded jetta 2.0t has at about the same price. time will tell.

alpha01 · February 2005

"well anyway, i saw the audi a3 and i think it looks absolutely gorgeous. i think i'm going to forget about that stinkin jetta and get me an audi a3."

This has been my point all along. The Jetta seems not to offer a competitive advantage enough to warrant its purchase over that of many other, similarly priced vehicles.

beta23 · February 2005

Hey anyone know how much the cheapest 2.0T 2006 Jetta could possibly be??? Under 24k???

AND

Whats better, Mazda3s or 2.5L Jetta 06???

ivan_99 · February 2005

I would guess that the 2.0T (base) would be around the 24ish

The new Passat, with same chassis, engine, tranny is supposed to be starting at 24K, although typical equipment will probably be a few $K more.

dudleyr · February 2005

Why would the Jetta be 24k if the Passat with the same engine is 24k. I guess the Jetta will be under 22k with the turbo.

ivan_99 · February 2005

MaybeIm just guessing.

I dont see a big difference since theyre sharing almost everything (I guess 2K isnt a big difference)

22K, for a 200hp German auto just seemscheap; but it just may be my bias (positive) with German autos.

maryv · February 2005

Does anyone have an exact reliable date as to when the new model will be available? My lease is up in March and I'd like to consider one, but might run out of time. Is it a bad idea to buy a vehicle in it's first model year (in this case, first redesign year)? Unthinkable or just "not a good idea"?

kurtamaxxguy · February 2005

Any first year car has hiccups. The Chrysler 300, Malibu Maxx, Accord Hybrid, Saturn Ion are 4 examples (visit those forums and you'll find owners with first year problems).

But, if you have a truly __outstanding__ volkswagen dealer to rely on, then you are in better position to jump into a first year car than most of us.

jrct9454 · February 2005

I would put this in the "unthinkable" category. Most first-year redesigns are going to have some problems; with VW's record, and the notorious incompetence of so much of the dealer body, and the equally notorious lack of support from VWoA to those dealers when problems arise....give it at least a couple of model years. Find something else for another short-term lease with a good resale value - Honda Accord? You can then revisit the idea when VW has proven it can produce a better product - right now, their good intentions are nothing but rhetoric.

carfreak189 · February 2005

Is there a more powerful engine then the 150 horsepower.

ivan_99 · February 2005

Yes, the soon to be released 2.0 Turbo; 200hp 208 ft/lb.

alpha01 · February 2005

How much extra will the Turbo cost? I'm guessing $1500 to $2000 more.

~alpha

Volkswagen Jetta 2006+

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