Yesterday, I had the opportunity to test drive a Wheat Beige Jetta with Beige interior, and Pkg 1. MSRP: $24,040.
Immediately, the car makes a strong impression of quality. The paint job is impressive, and panel gaps minimal. For anyone with an affinity to the previous generation of Jetta, the styling has lost the edginess and European flair of that model. It is inoffensive, but for me, not particularly compelling, and more generic overall. I will agree with those that state the Corolla likeness fades in person, though from the rear and at a distance, its still there.
Upon entering the vehicle, thoughtful touches abound, in typical VW fashion. I have always liked the design that VW employs for controlling the power sunroof. Here again, it's intuitive and easy to use to set a proper opening, and operation is very smooth. I am still unimpressed with the leatherette, which was dirty on this example, whose odometer read 128 miles. (I thought that fairly high, but since the salesman told me all of their current Jettas are 6A Pkg 1 models, I figured it was smart of them to use but one as a test drive vehicle).
Once seated, the tilt/telescoping steering wheel affords a comfortable seating position, but for $24K, having but a power seat backrest and manual everything else struck me as unimpressive. VW chooses to include dual zone auto climate control, a feature not commonly found on this price range, but skimps on a more frequently used item such as a multiadjustable power seat. Strange.
Adjusting mirrors for proper visibility revealed a cheap feeling switch to control the side mirrors. Once adjusted, the high beltline and limited glass area contribute to poor sightlines, in my opinion, as does the thick and steeply raked C-pillar. I did FEEL secure/safe due to the high beltline, but also somewhat claustrophobic.
The vehicle's instrumentation is flat-out gorgeous, easily visible in the daytime (during which I drove). That said, it lacks the jazzy visual appeal of electroluminescent guages that Lexus pioneered and the Accord made vogue in vehicles of this price class.
Now for the drive. The first thing I noticed was that the brakes seemed strong. Or rather, a bit grabby. Modulation is key here, as I came to a rather agressive stop from a 5 MPH roll out of the dealership parking spot. At speed, and once accustomed to the taut pedal, the brakes are clearly a strong point. Provided the right rubber, Im sure these brakes will stop in class leading distances.
The car accelerates with authority-to a point. I felt throttle tip-in to be fairly aggressive, which along with the engines strong torque yields a great off the line feeling. However, I actually floored the vehicle unintentionally once due to the pedal's shortish travel, and all out, the car is just average in acceleration with the upper RPM registers (post 5 grand on the tach) notably wheezy. The transmission is flawless, in my opinion. EPA figures are simply pathetic. Its nice that the engine is better than the former 2.0L 115 hp unit, but that was probably about the most unimpressive, low-tech mill on the market.
The salesman noted that the 2.5L has a pleasing Porsche-like growl due to its 5 cylinder architecture. I thought to myself that I've been more pleased by the sound of my Quisinart mixer when making chocolate chip cookies, but I understand "different strokes for different folks". IMO, refinement isnt this engines strong suit, but on the V-H front theres not much to complain about except at idle, where the 5's shake is slightly perceptible through the steering wheel.
The car rides very smoothly, though I didnt feel it to be the brilliant handler some here claim it is. Lean is restrained but present nonetheless, and the car simply doesnt feel as crisp as the TSXs I've driven, nor the AWD Legacy that sits in the driveway. Overall, a very nice but not class-leading compromise. That said, I'd imagine it will easily outhandle base Camrys and Accords with their small 15 inch tires, though the better models such as the Camry SEs will likely do as well dynamically if not feel as confident.
Space alround is much improved and the rear seat seems hospitable by adults on longer drives. Kudos, VW.
Overall, its a very nice car that feels refined in its manners and thoughfully designed. Its clearly a grown-up Jetta, and it makes sense for VW to sell it as such. But where does it leave those of us who liked the youthful image of the former Jetta? Buying cars like the Mazda 3S, I guess. For 24 grand, the Pkg 1 offers acceptable power but unimpressive fuel economy, fake leather, no power seat adjustments, and questionable reliability. Its a hard sell, even with a smart transmission, good space, and impressive fit and finish.
Perhaps its just too grown-up for an immature 23 year old like me. Coincidentally, the other person in the showroom with me was a 60 year old woman who stepped out every 10 minutes (it seemed), to puff a Virgina Slim. I'd think that VW would want to hook buyers with longer life expectancies, lol.....
Last word... the dealership was phenomenal. I'd be happy to recommend the name of my salesperson if people are looking to purchase from David Michael in Freehold, NJ. Just shoot me an email so I dont violate the Edmunds.com member agreement.
The salesman was great, and I did point out my criticism of the leatherette, visibility, and pricing. He made good points.. he said that most people think it looks like leather, so they dont question it. He also pointed to the fact that most cars have thick C-pillars, and the Jetta was designed with the safety cage in mind. He didnt say much about pricing, though I dont think they are getting MSRP on the car, since he stated that the sticker was the 'suggested' value of the car. He asked what else I was considering and I told him the Mazda 3s and he kind of had this 'it figures' look on his face. IMO, that car is just more for the money... better handling, peppier, more stylish, excellent reliability, similar warranty, and for $22,500 you can get real leather and NAV.
For $24k and a few dollars more, you can by a loaded Accord EX V6 with everything but NAV, in most competitive urban markets. This car goes like stink, has fully adjustable electric leather seats, sunroof, full safety package, etc. It just doesn't compute...
The diesel at least will offer something - noticeably better fuel consumption - that no one else has at the price except the Prius. The rest of the Jetta drivetrains are up against formidable competition at the various price points they are trying to hit.
just a couple of quipples. though it doesn't have the power seats it does have a lot of stuff other 24K cars may not have such as a 6 disk CD changer, air bags every where, stability control, heated seats-wiper washers-mirrors, rain sensor wipers, passenger seat that folds flat, trip computer and most importantly those air conditioned compartments for the owner’s manual. and there's the build quality.
i was more impressed by the handling than you obviously. i also love how it took broken payment in stride. i feel there isn't any accord or camry that handles nearly as well as the jetta. Perhaps it doesn’t handle as well as a TSX but it rides much better and I would say it does has class leading compromise.
what can i say about the 5 cylinder? when you're right you're right. especially about the sound. The 2.0T/DSG will give this car a whole new personality.
Though I’m not in love with the styling either it does make the old jetta look kind a dopey in comparison in my view.
Please! Not for anything, but for 25K (MSRP), a Camry XLE 4 cylinder will offer everything you state aside from heated seats, rain sensor wipers, dual zone auto climate control and the fold flat passenger seat.
Above the Jetta Pkg 1, it will offer a rear sunshade, 10 way power adjustable drivers seat, 6 way power passenger seat, electroluminescent gauges, steering wheel audio controls, JBL sound, fog lights, full size spare tire, and HomeLink. (It has auto climate control, but not dual zone). IMO, a Camry SE 4 cylinder is an even better value, and can offer REAL leather, heated seats, VSC, JBL, electroluminescent gauges, full size spare, steering wheel audio, rear sunshade, 10 way power driver's seat, side airbags and side curtains, rear spolier etc... for 25.2K . No go for auto climate control or power passenger seat, though.
No offense, here's the simple truth: the New Jetta brings ZERO competitive advantages to the table. My prediction is that it will sell quite well initially due to the new design, but will struggle indefinitely as the competition progresses. Dont forget that the current was around for 7 entire model years (99-05). I hear your arguement that the 2.0 and DSG will improve the vehicle... but then what? A Pkg 1 plus that equipment is $26 grand? A Pkg 2 plus that equipment is $28 grand, and that doesnt even include NAV? Thats near luxury territory, IMO, and a dangerous plaground. The last gen 2.8L Jetta GLX didnt stick around very long, and for a reason... it didnt sell at the prices it commanded.....
I think most of the complaints about price would vanish if the car had a better standard engine with like 180hp and a better sound/more refinement. The 2.0t model should have at least 215hp. VW will have to fix this during the Jetta's production run, watch what I tell you.
alpha01,
You're 23 huh? Very good writeup, sounded like seasoned auto tester!
I just spent a few days in Japan and noticed that pretty much everything was less expensive than in the US (the Bay Area, anyway) – more precisely, hotel, food, and little things that I could evaluate. Current exchange rates, whether dominated by market forces or other means, favor Japanese imports of cars and parts into the US.
There is no question that the historically high dollar/euro exchange rate is hurting VW imports (Mexican assembly notwithstanding). So, the “value propositions” of the new Jetta, Golf, A3 and A4 have to be viewed with a grain of salt. In other words, these products should become more competitive once the dollar gains. In addition, as always, I expect lower prices by year’s end, once the “must have” cars are sold, prices are adjusted, and a true comparison to other manufacturers becomes possible.
For now, some people forget that the 2.5 is the new base engine, replacing the 2.0. I would not be surprised if in a year, the 2.0t will be available for about the current price of the 2.5.
The 2.0t and Diesel engines will have better mileage and will appeal more to the enthusiasts on this board.
However, many mainstream Americans will find the 2.5 more than adequate, until then.
Thank you for the compliment. (Sadly, Im almost 24). I had time to put thought and effort into the test drive and subsequent rambling here, because I recently resigned from my job, which consumed a full 17 months of my life. Corporate accounting will drive creative types mad, I tell you!!
I hope to be test driving more cars during this time that I am in between careers, lol.
I have to disagree on the better standard engine with 180 hp. At some point the auto makers are going to have to get serious about fuel consumption for the US market.Sure, it's all good right now, but sooner or later they are going to drop the fuel price bomb on us. I think the horsepower wars are stupid. I do think the base engine could be better; but at conserving gas, not more powerfulll.. Atl least they have the TDI to offer.It will be interewsting to see some real world milage figures for the 2.5 engine. There was recently a report in the media about the unrealiablity of EPA mileage estimates. I would hope the Jetta 2.5 comes in on the high side of the EPA figures.
Base price as tested $26,747.00.This car is a dog ,you push the pedal down and you feel like you got to push it to make it move(150H.P.). It's just an odinary car.The car has nothing under the hood for 26k. The 16" tires don't hug the road. It's a nice family car to be compared with Focus,Civic,Corolla,Volvo,Saturn Ion. Where's the Zoom Zoom? ) to 60 in 9.1 seconds.(please)
As a matter of interest, local dealers [Portland OR] are already featuring newspaper ads with Automatic new-gen Jettas for just under $20k. These tend to have MSRPs in the $22-22.5k range. It seems obvious to me that the price hurdle is indeed already being felt at the retail level. And this is not an especially competitive market....
you can use that camry argument against other cars such as the tsx, 9-3, s40 and a4. at the end of the day the camry is still a camry. it's an excellent car for its purpose.
if you look at cars as nothing more than commodities, then the jetta may not have any advantages over a camry. my simple truth is this - the jetta does has many advantage over a camry such as much better driving dynamics and attention to detail.
yes, a jetta 2.0T w/DSG will approach near luxury territory. it'll put the 9-3 and s40 to shame. it promises better performance than a tsx - especially an automatic tsx.
as for the audi a4, i may do something stupid like get a CVT a4 over the less expensive but better equipped jetta 2.0t w/DSG. functionally the jetta is a close match to CVT a4 but the styling and even more elegant interior wins me over. i know it's not very rational but i'm placing a lot of importance on styling for my next car.
perhaps i can cure myself of the new car virus i seem to have and just keep the wheels i have.
very hard to believe indeed. sounds like a typical misleading newspaper advertisement. advertise for the value edition only to find out there aren't any available yet, but hey we have some jetta 2.5s available for sale.
Another possibilty is that they are (deliberately???) confusing the old and new Jetta. I have seen ads here that say new jetta is here and show a picture of the old one...but not with any prices.
Perhaps a dealer could advertise "new 2005 jetta is here...buy a 2005 Jetta for $X" (and give a price for the outgoing model, which has $1000 cash to dealer incentive).
Oh...sorry I misinterpreted that. I thought you were referring to the price being "real" .
Dealer here (WI) had indicated that they were expecting the first one in about another week. This was a week ago, when he said about two weeks was expected arrival date.
...you can believe whatever you want. These ads in the Portland Oregonian were for NEW Jettas [correct picture and model designation], with MSRPs in the $22k kind of range, listed for $19998. This was from at least two different dealers. I don't really care whether they are the VE or the Base car, or a partridge in a pear tree. The point was, discounts are already in the wind.
Naive me, I thought this would be considered good news. Whatever....
I'm actually savvy enough to know the difference - the same dealers are featuring the old-gen Jettas with discounts of $3-4k or more, depending on options and sedan vs wagon. There are even substantial [$3k] discount offers on the old-gen Jetta TDI wagon, which is very unusual in this market.
Neat! They tested the same exact model I did and came away with very similar impressions. Maybe I'm an expert? :P (I say that jokingly, Im not trying to be arrogant.)
In all honesty, the only material difference between the Edmunds.com review and mine is that I didnt feel the brakes to have excessive travel and spongy feel, but rather that they were a bit grabby, and difficult to modulate.
Of note from the road test: "We ran from zero to 60 mph in 9.4 seconds, and through the quarter-mile in 17.2 seconds at 82 mph. That's exactly what we ran in the last Corolla we tested, which costs over $4 grand less than a Jetta when similarly equipped." What edmunds.com doesnt mention is that the Corolla is rated at 30/38 with the auto. (Even CR, which tends to get the real-world economy of vehicles, posted an impressive 29 MPG overall with the Corolla automatic)
Its slalom speed of 61.3 mph is also slower than the 63.3 mph we've managed in a Corolla. Well, thats impressive.
And in summation: "It all makes sense, but the plan fails to account for the large batch of present Jetta owners who bought their cars because of the old Jetta's "it" factor. They may be a few years older, and they may be partying less and watching SpongeBob more, but they still want a car they think is cool. Don't they?
We think so."
Thats exactly what I've been saying all along. What about those of us who are young, have good potential income, and want a REAL successor to the trendy, enjoyable last generation Jetta?
And, venus, I understand your contention-wait until the 200 hp turbo comes out. But then a fully loaded edition is what? $28,740? Without NAV!! At that price, I'd much rather the sportier Volvo S40 T5, a more sensible TSX, a certified used 3 series, etc... Hell, perhaps I'd even stretch and do the new 200+ hp IS250, and get Lexus panache and service to along with a dose of my interior ergonmics/aesthetics (the new one is beautiful!) and reliability.
Of note from the road test: "We ran from zero to 60 mph in 9.4 seconds, and through the quarter-mile in 17.2 seconds at 82 mph. That's exactly what we ran in the last Corolla we tested, which costs over $4 grand less than a Jetta when similarly equipped." What edmunds.com doesn't mention is that the Corolla is rated at 30/38 with the auto. (Even CR, which tends to get the real-world economy of vehicles, posted an impressive 29 MPG overall with the Corolla automatic)
I am beginning to think that the 2.5l engine I5 was not the best choice for this car in the US. A lot of people in the target market look at both performance and fuel consumption.
For comparison, both the 140hp Golf TDI (DSG) and the new Passat 150hp 2.0FSI (manual) have about 9.3sec 0-60 times - and have 29-52 and 20-37 mpg ratings, respectively (both extreme values from the German VW web site).
The 2.0FSI also has fairly good low-end torque, so that's not a good argument for the 2.5. And according to FAZ, VW no longer is pursuing the "stratified" part of the F"S"I - also in Germany. This means, the sulfur in the US gas should not be an issue, because the NOx-burning catalyzer (that doesn't like the sulfur) is no longer required.
From this, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 2.0FSI in the Golf as a US base engine, rather than the 2.5 I5. Perhaps the 2.5 I5 is a flop - someone in VWoA insisted that Americans think there is no replacement for displacement and didn't believe the FSI numbers...
At any rate, I am waiting for either the 170hp TDI or the 2.0TFSI - with quattro, please.
"What edmunds.com doesn't mention is that the Corolla is rated at 30/38 with the auto."
The Jetta weighs about 1/3 more than a corolla...so it only makes sense that mpg would be significantly lower.
I am stunned by the reviewers comment "front seats lack thigh support" in that review. From our own sitting tests the Jetta was one of the few cars that has an adequately deep seat.
I notice that in the second opinions section another editor says "The driver and front passenger lounge in unqualified comfort". I also agree with him when he writes "Do I like this new 2005 Volkswagen Jetta? Yes. Do I love it? No.... For under $20,000, the new Jetta is going to make a lot of people contented."
"The Jetta weighs about 1/3 more than a corolla...so it only makes sense that mpg would be significantly lower."
Yes, but what benefit does this provide?
Look at the Mazda3s five-door. Better performance, nice ride, way better handling, includes NAV for less money than a Jetta 2.5 with package 1, in addition to all the other equipment of the VW and HID lights. Also has better fuel economy.
Toyota Matrix XRS - similar comparison, minus the NAV (and has a proportionally lower price than the Mazdaas a result).
Subaru Legacy - same price, lower equipment level BUT more space, better power and handling, and AWD. Slightly worse fuel economy, PZEV emissions.
VW has tried to execute the trick of squeezing the new Jetta into a niche that no-one else occupies yet. It is the "premium" compact sedan, but not an "entry-level" luxury" sedan. So what does this mean exactly? For a couple thousand more dollars, you get some much nicer cars in the entry-level lux set, IMO. For many thousands of dollars less, you can buy other compact cars that are not as nice but provide a whopping savings in money outlay up front and ongoing fuel efficiency. In the classes both above and below it, the Jetta 2.5 is outperfomed in acceleration and handling.
Maybe this "class of one" strategy will work out for VW. It had better hope so, because I will bet they won't be able to hold the line on price for very long. I will be most interested to see how well it sells.
Given how much they changed the car from the previous generation, it was a mistake for them to also call it a 2005, IMO. They should have just called it the 2006 to differentiate from all the leftover dregs of old '05s sitting on dealer lots.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They did the same thing with the 99 Jetta and the 99.5 New Jetta.
At first I was like "Ooooh" that could replace my 04 Accord at the end of the lease. Then I saw the prices, saw it was no longer fun-to-drive, etc. It also looks enough like the Corolla that I could save myself a few grand and buy the more reliable Toyota.
Right now it looks like a miss to me. I always liked the 99.5-05 Jetta and would have bought one if the reliability had been more on par with Honda or Toyota. They never got the reliability issue corrected and now the Jetta seems to have lost what made the previous gen desirable to me. So TL or TSX it will probably be.
lost a ton of money in its U.S. car operations last year. So the one thing they probably will NOT be able to do any time soon is lower the Jetta's price or offer large cash incentives. It is a good thing they are releasing the new up-priced Passat real soon, because I would think in the meantime they would lose a lot of potential 05.5 Jetta buyers to the similarly-priced (at comparable equipment levels) Passat GLS with the 1.8T. More car for the same money.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
MSRP: $22K PLUS [You know, the sticker on the window?] Offered selling price: Just under $20k.
Now tell me again, why this is not a legitimate discount? And tell me again why it is relevant what the VE sells for, if the MSRP of the offered car is part of the ad? If it is a VE, it has been optioned up to a $22k+ MSRP, so the base price is simply irrelevant.
Why is it so difficult for you to believe that dealers are already discounting the car?
I happen to think the car is a legitimate improvement over its predecessor, but also happen to believe that it is going to be perceived as seriously overpriced vs the competition by a large part of its potential audience. Thus, I thought it was good news that the dealer body around here has already started bringing the price closer to reality. Only a VWoA stockholder would think this is a bad thing.....right?
"If it is a VE, it has been optioned up to a $22k"
The VE can not be optioned up to that price. The only things that can be added are ATX and ESP, which brings maximum MSRP to $19,870. So thats why I made the comment I did.
"Why is it so difficult for you to believe that dealers are already discounting the car?"
Its not that they are discounting that is difficult to believe, it is the size of the discount that is difficult to believe. Invoice on the version with MSRP of ~$22k is $20,467. Edmunds does show a $500 owner loyalty rebate, so maybe they are including that in the price they are showing...but still hard to believe they would be selling under $20K already. Maybe this dealer adds on a $500 administrative fee something :surprise: ???
I was not really meaning to be critical of you. I had just assumed this was some sort of bogus advertising trick. Its also a bad thing if you have already ordered a VE with very little discount as we have .
Yes, that is possible. I'll delete that post, and then have a look at your previous postings to see if I can find the culprit. If I do, I'll delete that as well.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Given the gsoline version Jetta's size, price, mpg, power, and lack of incentives giving a relatively high real-world price, I don't see much of a reason to buy one. But that all changes when you throw the diesel into the mix. Now that is a vehicle I'd consider, being a good alternative to a hybrid.
I'd also like to see Audi start offering their diesel models. AWD (which is important to us Northerns) and great gas mileage.
I would not consider it the Jettas competition, but everyone seems to want to compare the Jetta to a Corolla. The VE Jetta with stability and ATX is $19870 MSRP. A Corolla with as close as I can come to similar equipment lists at $18840...which is actually only about 5% less. However the Toyota has more room to discount and actually sells at maybe 12% less than the Jetta VE, based on Edmunds TMV.
What do you get for the extra $2000 or so? First of all the Jetta weighs 700 pounds more, so Jetta actually costs less per pound than the Toyota . Is that weight just wasted, what do people think they do fill the jetta trunk with cement? I assume that the extra weight is related to using heavier/thicker steel and stuff like that. The extra weight also likely makes the Jetta a safer car.
In terms of features and equipment the Jetta has a larger, more powerful engine, 6 speed ATX instead of 4, four wheel disk brakes instead of rear drums, height adjustable passenger seat instead of only the drivers seat, tilt/telescoping wheel instead of just tilt, and a 15% larger trunk.
Also IMO, the Jetta has seats that are actually comfortable to sit in unlike the too small Toyota perches.
If, instead, you compare the value edition to the comparable Honda Accord LX or Camry LE, The Jetta VE list price is about the same as the Edmunds TMV for those. These cars are still one cylinder and one ATX gear short of what the Jetta has. The Honda does not have stability control available and neither Honda or Toyota has 4 wheel disk brakes.
II agree that they are not really direct competitors, but people reference the Corolla in trying to make a point. Also, I get a price on the Corolla LE automatic a little lower when equipping it like the Jetta Value Edition: $18,489.
Corolla LE automatic+Side Curtain Airbags+ABS+Stability Control+Audio Value Pkg (cruise and 6CD which the Jetta doesnt have)+All Weather Guard Pkg (just a HD radiator)+ Preferred Accesory Pkg (Carpeted Floormats, Trunk Mat, Cargo Net).
Sorry, but I find the following slightly comical: "In terms of features and equipment the Jetta has a larger, more powerful engine, 6 speed ATX instead of 4....."
1) The larger, more powerful engine and advanced 6 speed automatic do not provide acceleration figures that are any better than a Corolla LE automatic; according to Edmunds.com, both require 9.4 seconds to 60. Of course, along with the larger, more powerful engine, you do lose about 5 or 6 of those pesky miles per gallon.
2) The others are all good points, esp valid point on the dics vs. drums, as discs are more desirable, but braking itself usually comes down more to size and power of the fronts as well as rubber choice. Additionally, the Corolla has a few features the Jetta does not, such as electroluminescent instrumentation, rear cupholders, etc.
Re: the Accord and Camry- the only thing the Jetta's extra cylinder accomplishes is an unrefined engine note and idle shake that arent present in the Camcord. And both accelerate about the same Jetta, while offering from 8 to 11 more cubic feet of interior room, AND the Camry has a larger trunk to boot.
"Of course, along with the larger, more powerful engine, you do lose about 5 or 6 of those pesky miles per gallon."
Eight (8). You lose 8. Jetta 2.5 rated at 22/30 automatic, Corolla automatic rated at 30/38.
If you drive 1000 miles/month and gas is $2.50/gallon as it is in my area, that is a difference of 12 gallons or $30/month. For instance. So the Jetta has to be worth an extra $360/yr on top of any other value considerations. You can, for instance, buy a lot of maintenance or even a new set of tires for that kind of money.
In theory, I should be the perfect candidate for the new Jetta - I am always saying I would like to see a truly competitive premium compact car, rather than just economy models. But for me, part of "premium" means being near the top of the class in acceleration and handling. If it is going to be slow and moderately expensive, well, OK, it would at least be a feather in its cap if it got class-leading fuel economy by being slow. But it doesn't do either - it gets noticeably worse fuel economy than some of its competitors' V-6s (the Malibu comes to mind). Not that I would ever consider the Malibu as a competing model, but it has a bigger engine with significantly more power, which is my only point there. Why so low VW?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No stability control, otherwise those would all three be in consideration. (Nada on the Mazda, Matrix only offers it on the boring base engine model, and Subaru only offers it on the stratospherically priced Outback VDC.)
I like the TSX and S40 comparisons. And I agree they should have called it a 2006.
So the one thing they probably will NOT be able to do any time soon is lower the Jetta's price or offer large cash incentives.
Call me a pessimist, but I don't think they will lower the Jetta's price, raise the incentives, correct the styling mistakes, or increase its notorious reliability any time soon.
If you equip the Jetta 2.5 with leather, roof, wheels, Homelink etc you will pay a $4600 premium over the base version. With an MSRP of $26,740 with an automatic transmission you are then competing with cars such as the Accord EX V6, Acura TSX, even the upcoming Lexus IS250 will start at $27,000. That is some mighty tough competition for what is essentially a small, underpowered car, with a nice interior.
Okay so you don't want to add the $4700 package that gives you the above options you are still looking at $24,000 with such simple options as a sunroof and 16" wheels. I can easily get an Accord EX-L for that and will have side-curtain airbags, dual-zone climate control, heated seats, sunroof, more power, etc. Even when you take the roof off you still have an MSRP of $22,000. That still puts it in the midst of tough competitors like the Mazda6, Nissan Altima, and the Accord EX. The Jetta is going to be a VERY tough sell IMO.
Nippon, I stand corrected. I should have consulted the numbers first, you're absolutely right. The better 6 speed and bigger engine than the Corolla yield no acceleration gains and exact a penalty of EIGHT MPG.
"I would say the Jetta is better than the Corolla because I like it better "
Agree
I also like it better because my wife liked it better than the other cars she found acceptable...and those other cars would have cost $3000-8000 more than the Jetta .
Comments
MSRP: $24,040.
Immediately, the car makes a strong impression of quality. The paint job is impressive, and panel gaps minimal. For anyone with an affinity to the previous generation of Jetta, the styling has lost the edginess and European flair of that model. It is inoffensive, but for me, not particularly compelling, and more generic overall. I will agree with those that state the Corolla likeness fades in person, though from the rear and at a distance, its still there.
Upon entering the vehicle, thoughtful touches abound, in typical VW fashion. I have always liked the design that VW employs for controlling the power sunroof. Here again, it's intuitive and easy to use to set a proper opening, and operation is very smooth. I am still unimpressed with the leatherette, which was dirty on this example, whose odometer read 128 miles. (I thought that fairly high, but since the salesman told me all of their current Jettas are 6A Pkg 1 models, I figured it was smart of them to use but one as a test drive vehicle).
Once seated, the tilt/telescoping steering wheel affords a comfortable seating position, but for $24K, having but a power seat backrest and manual everything else struck me as unimpressive. VW chooses to include dual zone auto climate control, a feature not commonly found on this price range, but skimps on a more frequently used item such as a multiadjustable power seat. Strange.
Adjusting mirrors for proper visibility revealed a cheap feeling switch to control the side mirrors. Once adjusted, the high beltline and limited glass area contribute to poor sightlines, in my opinion, as does the thick and steeply raked C-pillar. I did FEEL secure/safe due to the high beltline, but also somewhat claustrophobic.
The vehicle's instrumentation is flat-out gorgeous, easily visible in the daytime (during which I drove). That said, it lacks the jazzy visual appeal of electroluminescent guages that Lexus pioneered and the Accord made vogue in vehicles of this price class.
Now for the drive. The first thing I noticed was that the brakes seemed strong. Or rather, a bit grabby. Modulation is key here, as I came to a rather agressive stop from a 5 MPH roll out of the dealership parking spot. At speed, and once accustomed to the taut pedal, the brakes are clearly a strong point. Provided the right rubber, Im sure these brakes will stop in class leading distances.
The car accelerates with authority-to a point. I felt throttle tip-in to be fairly aggressive, which along with the engines strong torque yields a great off the line feeling. However, I actually floored the vehicle unintentionally once due to the pedal's shortish travel, and all out, the car is just average in acceleration with the upper RPM registers (post 5 grand on the tach) notably wheezy. The transmission is flawless, in my opinion. EPA figures are simply pathetic. Its nice that the engine is better than the former 2.0L 115 hp unit, but that was probably about the most unimpressive, low-tech mill on the market.
The salesman noted that the 2.5L has a pleasing Porsche-like growl due to its 5 cylinder architecture. I thought to myself that I've been more pleased by the sound of my Quisinart mixer when making chocolate chip cookies, but I understand "different strokes for different folks". IMO, refinement isnt this engines strong suit, but on the V-H front theres not much to complain about except at idle, where the 5's shake is slightly perceptible through the steering wheel.
The car rides very smoothly, though I didnt feel it to be the brilliant handler some here claim it is. Lean is restrained but present nonetheless, and the car simply doesnt feel as crisp as the TSXs I've driven, nor the AWD Legacy that sits in the driveway. Overall, a very nice but not class-leading compromise. That said, I'd imagine it will easily outhandle base Camrys and Accords with their small 15 inch tires, though the better models such as the Camry SEs will likely do as well dynamically if not feel as confident.
Space alround is much improved and the rear seat seems hospitable by adults on longer drives. Kudos, VW.
Overall, its a very nice car that feels refined in its manners and thoughfully designed. Its clearly a grown-up Jetta, and it makes sense for VW to sell it as such. But where does it leave those of us who liked the youthful image of the former Jetta? Buying cars like the Mazda 3S, I guess. For 24 grand, the Pkg 1 offers acceptable power but unimpressive fuel economy, fake leather, no power seat adjustments, and questionable reliability. Its a hard sell, even with a smart transmission, good space, and impressive fit and finish.
Perhaps its just too grown-up for an immature 23 year old like me. Coincidentally, the other person in the showroom with me was a 60 year old woman who stepped out every 10 minutes (it seemed), to puff a Virgina Slim. I'd think that VW would want to hook buyers with longer life expectancies, lol.....
Last word... the dealership was phenomenal. I'd be happy to recommend the name of my salesperson if people are looking to purchase from David Michael in Freehold, NJ. Just shoot me an email so I dont violate the Edmunds.com member agreement.
Regards
~alpha
He asked what else I was considering and I told him the Mazda 3s and he kind of had this 'it figures' look on his face. IMO, that car is just more for the money... better handling, peppier, more stylish, excellent reliability, similar warranty, and for $22,500 you can get real leather and NAV.
~alpha
For $24k and a few dollars more, you can by a loaded Accord EX V6 with everything but NAV, in most competitive urban markets. This car goes like stink, has fully adjustable electric leather seats, sunroof, full safety package, etc. It just doesn't compute...
The diesel at least will offer something - noticeably better fuel consumption - that no one else has at the price except the Prius. The rest of the Jetta drivetrains are up against formidable competition at the various price points they are trying to hit.
Good luck, VWoA.
just a couple of quipples. though it doesn't have the power seats it does have a lot of stuff other 24K cars may not have such as a 6 disk CD changer, air bags every where, stability control, heated seats-wiper washers-mirrors, rain sensor wipers, passenger seat that folds flat, trip computer and most importantly those air conditioned compartments for the owner’s manual. and there's the build quality.
i was more impressed by the handling than you obviously. i also love how it took broken payment in stride. i feel there isn't any accord or camry that handles nearly as well as the jetta. Perhaps it doesn’t handle as well as a TSX but it rides much better and I would say it does has class leading compromise.
what can i say about the 5 cylinder? when you're right you're right. especially about the sound. The 2.0T/DSG will give this car a whole new personality.
Though I’m not in love with the styling either it does make the old jetta look kind a dopey in comparison in my view.
The side view with lowered suspension remindes me of a 9-3.
Above the Jetta Pkg 1, it will offer a rear sunshade, 10 way power adjustable drivers seat, 6 way power passenger seat, electroluminescent gauges, steering wheel audio controls, JBL sound, fog lights, full size spare tire, and HomeLink. (It has auto climate control, but not dual zone). IMO, a Camry SE 4 cylinder is an even better value, and can offer REAL leather, heated seats, VSC, JBL, electroluminescent gauges, full size spare, steering wheel audio, rear sunshade, 10 way power driver's seat, side airbags and side curtains, rear spolier etc... for 25.2K . No go for auto climate control or power passenger seat, though.
No offense, here's the simple truth: the New Jetta brings ZERO competitive advantages to the table. My prediction is that it will sell quite well initially due to the new design, but will struggle indefinitely as the competition progresses. Dont forget that the current was around for 7 entire model years (99-05). I hear your arguement that the 2.0 and DSG will improve the vehicle... but then what? A Pkg 1 plus that equipment is $26 grand? A Pkg 2 plus that equipment is $28 grand, and that doesnt even include NAV? Thats near luxury territory, IMO, and a dangerous plaground. The last gen 2.8L Jetta GLX didnt stick around very long, and for a reason... it didnt sell at the prices it commanded.....
~alpha
alpha01,
You're 23 huh? Very good writeup, sounded like seasoned auto tester!
M
There is no question that the historically high dollar/euro exchange rate is hurting VW imports (Mexican assembly notwithstanding). So, the “value propositions” of the new Jetta, Golf, A3 and A4 have to be viewed with a grain of salt. In other words, these products should become more competitive once the dollar gains. In addition, as always, I expect lower prices by year’s end, once the “must have” cars are sold, prices are adjusted, and a true comparison to other manufacturers becomes possible.
For now, some people forget that the 2.5 is the new base engine, replacing the 2.0. I would not be surprised if in a year, the 2.0t will be available for about the current price of the 2.5.
The 2.0t and Diesel engines will have better mileage and will appeal more to the enthusiasts on this board.
However, many mainstream Americans will find the 2.5 more than adequate, until then.
Thank you for the compliment. (Sadly, Im almost 24). I had time to put thought and effort into the test drive and subsequent rambling here, because I recently resigned from my job, which consumed a full 17 months of my life. Corporate accounting will drive creative types mad, I tell you!!
I hope to be test driving more cars during this time that I am in between careers, lol.
Take care!
alpha
~alpha
The 16" tires don't hug the road. It's a nice family car to be compared with Focus,Civic,Corolla,Volvo,Saturn Ion.
Where's the Zoom Zoom? ) to 60 in 9.1 seconds.(please)
you can use that camry argument against other cars such as the tsx, 9-3, s40 and a4. at the end of the day the camry is still a camry. it's an excellent car for its purpose.
if you look at cars as nothing more than commodities, then the jetta may not have any advantages over a camry. my simple truth is this - the jetta does has many advantage over a camry such as much better driving dynamics and attention to detail.
yes, a jetta 2.0T w/DSG will approach near luxury territory. it'll put the 9-3 and s40 to shame. it promises better performance than a tsx - especially an automatic tsx.
as for the audi a4, i may do something stupid like get a CVT a4 over the less expensive but better equipped jetta 2.0t w/DSG. functionally the jetta is a close match to CVT a4 but the styling and even more elegant interior wins me over. i know it's not very rational but i'm placing a lot of importance on styling for my next car.
perhaps i can cure myself of the new car virus i seem to have and just keep the wheels i have.
That seems pretty hard to believe, since invoice with destination is $20,467 for 2.5 with ATX. Are you sure ads are not for the value edition?
Perhaps a dealer could advertise "new 2005 jetta is here...buy a 2005 Jetta for $X" (and give a price for the outgoing model, which has $1000 cash to dealer incentive).
Dealer here (WI) had indicated that they were expecting the first one in about another week. This was a week ago, when he said about two weeks was expected arrival date.
Naive me, I thought this would be considered good news. Whatever....
I'm actually savvy enough to know the difference - the same dealers are featuring the old-gen Jettas with discounts of $3-4k or more, depending on options and sedan vs wagon. There are even substantial [$3k] discount offers on the old-gen Jetta TDI wagon, which is very unusual in this market.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=105254?tid=edmunds.h..insi- deline.promo.2.*
In all honesty, the only material difference between the Edmunds.com review and mine is that I didnt feel the brakes to have excessive travel and spongy feel, but rather that they were a bit grabby, and difficult to modulate.
Of note from the road test: "We ran from zero to 60 mph in 9.4 seconds, and through the quarter-mile in 17.2 seconds at 82 mph. That's exactly what we ran in the last Corolla we tested, which costs over $4 grand less than a Jetta when similarly equipped." What edmunds.com doesnt mention is that the Corolla is rated at 30/38 with the auto. (Even CR, which tends to get the real-world economy of vehicles, posted an impressive 29 MPG overall with the Corolla automatic)
Its slalom speed of 61.3 mph is also slower than the 63.3 mph we've managed in a Corolla. Well, thats impressive.
And in summation: "It all makes sense, but the plan fails to account for the large batch of present Jetta owners who bought their cars because of the old Jetta's "it" factor. They may be a few years older, and they may be partying less and watching SpongeBob more, but they still want a car they think is cool. Don't they?
We think so."
Thats exactly what I've been saying all along. What about those of us who are young, have good potential income, and want a REAL successor to the trendy, enjoyable last generation Jetta?
And, venus, I understand your contention-wait until the 200 hp turbo comes out. But then a fully loaded edition is what? $28,740? Without NAV!! At that price, I'd much rather the sportier Volvo S40 T5, a more sensible TSX, a certified used 3 series, etc... Hell, perhaps I'd even stretch and do the new 200+ hp IS250, and get Lexus panache and service to along with a dose of my interior ergonmics/aesthetics (the new one is beautiful!) and reliability.
~alpha
Well you should care, because if it is a VE then MSRP is less than $19,998.
Of note from the road test: "We ran from zero to 60 mph in 9.4 seconds, and through the quarter-mile in 17.2 seconds at 82 mph. That's exactly what we ran in the last Corolla we tested, which costs over $4 grand less than a Jetta when similarly equipped." What edmunds.com doesn't mention is that the Corolla is rated at 30/38 with the auto. (Even CR, which tends to get the real-world economy of vehicles, posted an impressive 29 MPG overall with the Corolla automatic)
I am beginning to think that the 2.5l engine I5 was not the best choice for this car in the US. A lot of people in the target market look at both performance and fuel consumption.
For comparison, both the 140hp Golf TDI (DSG) and the new Passat 150hp 2.0FSI (manual) have about 9.3sec 0-60 times - and have 29-52 and 20-37 mpg ratings, respectively (both extreme values from the German VW web site).
The 2.0FSI also has fairly good low-end torque, so that's not a good argument for the 2.5. And according to FAZ, VW no longer is pursuing the "stratified" part of the F"S"I - also in Germany. This means, the sulfur in the US gas should not be an issue, because the NOx-burning catalyzer (that doesn't like the sulfur) is no longer required.
From this, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 2.0FSI in the Golf as a US base engine, rather than the 2.5 I5. Perhaps the 2.5 I5 is a flop - someone in VWoA insisted that Americans think there is no replacement for displacement and didn't believe the FSI numbers...
At any rate, I am waiting for either the 170hp TDI or the 2.0TFSI - with quattro, please.
The Jetta weighs about 1/3 more than a corolla...so it only makes sense that mpg would be significantly lower.
I am stunned by the reviewers comment "front seats lack thigh support" in that review. From our own sitting tests the Jetta was one of the few cars that has an adequately deep seat.
I notice that in the second opinions section another editor says "The driver and front passenger lounge in unqualified comfort". I also agree with him when he writes "Do I like this new 2005 Volkswagen Jetta? Yes. Do I love it? No.... For under $20,000, the new Jetta is going to make a lot of people contented."
Yes, but what benefit does this provide?
Look at the Mazda3s five-door. Better performance, nice ride, way better handling, includes NAV for less money than a Jetta 2.5 with package 1, in addition to all the other equipment of the VW and HID lights. Also has better fuel economy.
Toyota Matrix XRS - similar comparison, minus the NAV (and has a proportionally lower price than the Mazdaas a result).
Subaru Legacy - same price, lower equipment level BUT more space, better power and handling, and AWD. Slightly worse fuel economy, PZEV emissions.
VW has tried to execute the trick of squeezing the new Jetta into a niche that no-one else occupies yet. It is the "premium" compact sedan, but not an "entry-level" luxury" sedan. So what does this mean exactly? For a couple thousand more dollars, you get some much nicer cars in the entry-level lux set, IMO. For many thousands of dollars less, you can buy other compact cars that are not as nice but provide a whopping savings in money outlay up front and ongoing fuel efficiency. In the classes both above and below it, the Jetta 2.5 is outperfomed in acceleration and handling.
Maybe this "class of one" strategy will work out for VW. It had better hope so, because I will bet they won't be able to hold the line on price for very long. I will be most interested to see how well it sells.
Given how much they changed the car from the previous generation, it was a mistake for them to also call it a 2005, IMO. They should have just called it the 2006 to differentiate from all the leftover dregs of old '05s sitting on dealer lots.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At first I was like "Ooooh" that could replace my 04 Accord at the end of the lease. Then I saw the prices, saw it was no longer fun-to-drive, etc. It also looks enough like the Corolla that I could save myself a few grand and buy the more reliable Toyota.
Right now it looks like a miss to me. I always liked the 99.5-05 Jetta and would have bought one if the reliability had been more on par with Honda or Toyota. They never got the reliability issue corrected and now the Jetta seems to have lost what made the previous gen desirable to me. So TL or TSX it will probably be.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
MSRP: $22K PLUS [You know, the sticker on the window?]
Offered selling price: Just under $20k.
Now tell me again, why this is not a legitimate discount? And tell me again why it is relevant what the VE sells for, if the MSRP of the offered car is part of the ad? If it is a VE, it has been optioned up to a $22k+ MSRP, so the base price is simply irrelevant.
Why is it so difficult for you to believe that dealers are already discounting the car?
I happen to think the car is a legitimate improvement over its predecessor, but also happen to believe that it is going to be perceived as seriously overpriced vs the competition by a large part of its potential audience. Thus, I thought it was good news that the dealer body around here has already started bringing the price closer to reality. Only a VWoA stockholder would think this is a bad thing.....right?
~alpha
The VE can not be optioned up to that price. The only things that can be added are ATX and ESP, which brings maximum MSRP to $19,870. So thats why I made the comment I did.
"Why is it so difficult for you to believe that dealers are already discounting the car?"
Its not that they are discounting that is difficult to believe, it is the size of the discount that is difficult to believe. Invoice on the version with MSRP of ~$22k is $20,467. Edmunds does show a $500 owner loyalty rebate, so maybe they are including that in the price they are showing...but still hard to believe they would be selling under $20K already. Maybe this dealer adds on a $500 administrative fee something :surprise: ???
I was not really meaning to be critical of you. I had just assumed this was some sort of bogus advertising trick. Its also a bad thing if you have already ordered a VE with very little discount as we have
"FYI, most (Herzog-Meier, Armstrong) local dealers here in Portland..."
was not by me. I am not even in Portland. I think a link I put elsewhere asking about this allowed someone else to post under my ID.
Moderator is that possible?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
It was a link in a post on another website. I have edited that post to remove the link.
I'd also like to see Audi start offering their diesel models. AWD (which is important to us Northerns) and great gas mileage.
What do you get for the extra $2000 or so? First of all the Jetta weighs 700 pounds more, so Jetta actually costs less per pound than the Toyota
In terms of features and equipment the Jetta has a larger, more powerful engine, 6 speed ATX instead of 4, four wheel disk brakes instead of rear drums, height adjustable passenger seat instead of only the drivers seat, tilt/telescoping wheel instead of just tilt, and a 15% larger trunk.
Also IMO, the Jetta has seats that are actually comfortable to sit in unlike the too small Toyota perches.
If, instead, you compare the value edition to the comparable Honda Accord LX or Camry LE, The Jetta VE list price is about the same as the Edmunds TMV for those. These cars are still one cylinder and one ATX gear short of what the Jetta has. The Honda does not have stability control available and neither Honda or Toyota has 4 wheel disk brakes.
Corolla LE automatic+Side Curtain Airbags+ABS+Stability Control+Audio Value Pkg (cruise and 6CD which the Jetta doesnt have)+All Weather Guard Pkg (just a HD radiator)+ Preferred Accesory Pkg (Carpeted Floormats, Trunk Mat, Cargo Net).
Sorry, but I find the following slightly comical:
"In terms of features and equipment the Jetta has a larger, more powerful engine, 6 speed ATX instead of 4....."
1) The larger, more powerful engine and advanced 6 speed automatic do not provide acceleration figures that are any better than a Corolla LE automatic; according to Edmunds.com, both require 9.4 seconds to 60. Of course, along with the larger, more powerful engine, you do lose about 5 or 6 of those pesky miles per gallon.
2) The others are all good points, esp valid point on the dics vs. drums, as discs are more desirable, but braking itself usually comes down more to size and power of the fronts as well as rubber choice. Additionally, the Corolla has a few features the Jetta does not, such as electroluminescent instrumentation, rear cupholders, etc.
Re: the Accord and Camry- the only thing the Jetta's extra cylinder accomplishes is an unrefined engine note and idle shake that arent present in the Camcord. And both accelerate about the same Jetta, while offering from 8 to 11 more cubic feet of interior room, AND the Camry has a larger trunk to boot.
~alpha
"Of course, along with the larger, more powerful engine, you do lose about 5 or 6 of those pesky miles per gallon."
Eight (8). You lose 8. Jetta 2.5 rated at 22/30 automatic, Corolla automatic rated at 30/38.
If you drive 1000 miles/month and gas is $2.50/gallon as it is in my area, that is a difference of 12 gallons or $30/month. For instance. So the Jetta has to be worth an extra $360/yr on top of any other value considerations. You can, for instance, buy a lot of maintenance or even a new set of tires for that kind of money.
In theory, I should be the perfect candidate for the new Jetta - I am always saying I would like to see a truly competitive premium compact car, rather than just economy models. But for me, part of "premium" means being near the top of the class in acceleration and handling. If it is going to be slow and moderately expensive, well, OK, it would at least be a feather in its cap if it got class-leading fuel economy by being slow. But it doesn't do either - it gets noticeably worse fuel economy than some of its competitors' V-6s (the Malibu comes to mind). Not that I would ever consider the Malibu as a competing model, but it has a bigger engine with significantly more power, which is my only point there. Why so low VW?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Toyota Matrix XRS...
Subaru Legacy
No stability control, otherwise those would all three be in consideration. (Nada on the Mazda, Matrix only offers it on the boring base engine model, and Subaru only offers it on the stratospherically priced Outback VDC.)
I like the TSX and S40 comparisons. And I agree they should have called it a 2006.
Call me a pessimist, but I don't think they will lower the Jetta's price, raise the incentives, correct the styling mistakes, or increase its notorious reliability any time soon.
Okay so you don't want to add the $4700 package that gives you the above options you are still looking at $24,000 with such simple options as a sunroof and 16" wheels. I can easily get an Accord EX-L for that and will have side-curtain airbags, dual-zone climate control, heated seats, sunroof, more power, etc. Even when you take the roof off you still have an MSRP of $22,000. That still puts it in the midst of tough competitors like the Mazda6, Nissan Altima, and the Accord EX. The Jetta is going to be a VERY tough sell IMO.
"Don't Buy It!"
I have no plans on upgrading my 2003 anytime soon....
This dead horse has been beaten beyond recognition. :sick:
Thanks!
~alpha
Agree
I also like it better because my wife liked it better than the other cars she found acceptable...and those other cars would have cost $3000-8000 more than the Jetta