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Comments
I potentially could have sold the S2000 privately here in DC for $25,000, but that would have resulted in a lot of hassle and the $3,000 more I might have received would have been partially offset by another $1,320 in sales tax on the new car.
I agree with your decision to wait, if the best you can do is MSRP for the TL and a ridiculously low balled trade in on the XC90. But there are other dealerships out there that would likely treat you much better (i.e. like mine in PA), whether you decide to wait on the 2005's or not.
P.S. My Acura dealership was unsuccessful in selling the S2000 off their lot and ended up wholesaling it anyway. So perhaps they are a little leary of giving 100% of trade in value on a $22k-$30k trade in again. But I am quite sure they would come very close, certainly not a $7,000 low ball (especially given you were already agreeing to pay about $2,000 more over invoice for the TL than I did).
Unlike you, I had plenty of Acura dealerships in the DC area to choose from, but, by and large, all wanted close to MSRP for a TL w/Nav (especially a 6-speed in my color choice w/ no extra miles on the odometer). So I had no hesitation in ordering from my former hometown dealership 375 miles away. As far as maintenance and service goes, I don't think buying out of town will be much of a detriment. I called a few local service department managers and asked if they had any problem with servicing a car not bought from their dealership and the answer was a universal "we want your business". No free car wash at one, but I know how to use a hose.
As for competition softening the market for the TL, I don't think the $40k-$50k A6 will do much. I drove the 6 cylinder and was not impressed with it's performance. The 4.2 V8 I drove stickered over $50k. Big discounts were available, but I suspect the new 2005 will be in high demand for awhile. Most of the cars I considered were above the TL in price, in some cases by $20k+ (E320 CDI). While there are some nice choices out there, none offer the overall value of the TL, IMO. The soon to be redesigned 2005 G35 sedan may be the most serious challenge in the same general price range.
Good luck whatever you decide. It is unfortunate that your choice of cars may be affected by the choice (or lack thereof) of dealerships.
They couldn't have made the transaction easier for me if they tried. They gave me the trade in price over the phone based upon my (accurate) description of the car. The paperwork was done in 10 minutes flat when I arrived to pick up the TL. If, as you sound, your an honest guy that wants a good deal, I couldn't recommend Contemporary more highly. And I'm sure they wont change their approach if you decide to wait until the 2005's come out.
What would I change? Not much. The seats could be a little better with more thigh and side support, but they are still noticably better than my 1995 Maxima. Coming out of a Volvo - known for very good seats - you may find the Acura seats only "acceptable" but not great. The audio system, for all it's claims as groundbreaking new technology, doesn't match the crispness of sound from the old Nakamichi / Fosgate system I had installed in my first new car - a 1978 Datsun B210GX. But again, it's quite good and I'm not exactly a high decible rock and roller. Probably the biggest issue I have with the car is that, for pure driving pleasure, no FWD car will match the feel and handling of, say a BMW 5-series. But the $530i is another $18k in price, or $25k if you go to the 545i, which is necessary to match the quickness of the TL. The TL is at least as good or better than any of the other FWD cars I tested and, IMO, is a better overall package than the RWD Infiniti G35.
If I might ask, why do you want to trade your XC90. We will be replacing our SUV next and the XC90, along with the MDX/Pilot, Lexus GX470 and a couple of others are on our list. I'm impressed with the looks and drive of the XC90, just not sure about Volvo reliability compared to the others.
What would I change? Not much. The seats could be a little better with more thigh and side support, but they are still noticably better than my 1995 Maxima. Coming out of a Volvo - known for very good seats - you may find the Acura seats only "acceptable" but not great. The audio system, for all it's claims as groundbreaking new technology, doesn't match the crispness of sound from the old Nakamichi / Fosgate system I had installed in my first new car - a 1978 Datsun B210GX. But again, it's quite good and I'm not exactly a high decible rock and roller. Probably the biggest issue I have with the car is that, for pure driving pleasure, no FWD car will match the feel and handling of, say a BMW 5-series. But the 530i is another $18k in price, or $25k if you go to the 545i, which is necessary to match the quickness of the TL. The TL is at least as good or better than any of the other FWD cars I tested and, IMO, is a better overall package than the RWD Infiniti G35 or AWD Audi A4 Quatro.
If I might ask, why do you want to trade your XC90? We will be replacing our SUV next and the XC90, along with the MDX/Pilot, Lexus GX470 and a couple of others are on our list. I'm impressed with the looks and drive of the XC90, just not sure about Volvo reliability compared to the others.
So, I am going to go to a Chicago suburb to pick one up. They are going to pick me up from the airport on a Sat morning in a few weeks. I got it for $1000 over invoice with a little pushing plus splash guards and all weather floor mats at a discount. Overall I saved about $1000 after the plane ticket for the effort. Total price is $33300. It isn't the best I have seen posted but underneath TMV and the best I could find in the entire midwest.
I hope to enjoy my trip back home in the new car.
PS. : It seems to be the best deal around as I went to a few other dealerships and they want 2-3 grand more. Just wanted to see if you guys knew of something I didn't.
Also these guys seem good, because I originally wanted to get the A-spec not realizing it wouldn't bode well in the area I live in and these guys were gonna charge me cost for the package whereas the competitors wanted to sell it to me for 9 grand... What a rip.
I will be moving to Portland, OR and purchasing a new car in about 1.5-2 months. I had a few questions and would appreciate any pointers or suggestions. Currently I am a resident of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia).
My choice is between the TL & G35 leather w/ premium pkg.(An '04 I35 w/ Nav. and cold weather pkg. for < $28k would be a third choice).
Questions:
(i) What are typical "additional" fees dealers charge in Oregon, or to Oregon residents (buying in WA, or CA, for instance)?
(ii) There is no sales tax on cars, right, for OR residents?
(iii) What is a good time to buy a new car- August, September, October (due to '05 models and inventory reduction etc.)?
(iv) Would it be unreasonable to expect to get an '04 non- navi. TL or '04 G35 w/ prem. pkg. for $32k, all inclusive?
(v) How well does the argument of an '04 car being "a year old" (and so it should be offered for lesser) usually work in Aug/ Sept/ Oct, if the dealer has some '04 models on-site?
Thanks again.
Thanks.
tell him shelly sent you 5616860300
When I got my car they have about 10 TL's. My price was 2K off sticker. Bought the First Finish option so that the finish won't get hurt by the love bugs. I would strongly suggest it. Also bought a Motorola V600 cell phone to connect to the car.
Talk to Billy Morrison. He is honest as well as his manager. They will treat you right
I just picked up a Silver with Ebony 2004 automatic TL at Stevens Creek Acura. I had a good buying experience there. They are the volume leader, and they have some good selections to choose from. They are able to give the best price in the Bay Area, and more importantly, they match the lowest prices if you show valid quotes from other dealers. I was able to buy the car for less than 1000 over invoice.
My salesperson. Steven Tom, was very competent and very easy to work with. Ask for him if you are in the Bay Area and looking for a TL. Tell him that Albert has recommended him to you through Edmunds.com. (I am not getting any benefits from this, of course, but just to let you know of a good person whom you can work with)
Thank you, and hope you have a good buying experience in the SF, SJ, Bay Area!
I got a quote today from an Atlanta dealer that will let one go for $31,400. I still think I can do a little better.
I'm interested in a 2004 TL w/ auto & navi. But the dealers in the L.A. area all seem to want sticker price or close to it. Cars are scarce--some Acura dealers don't have ANY TLs on their lot!--and no one seems to want to deal.
The best price I've found so far is $34,645, which is $550 off MSRP. That's the CostCo pricing, and apparently it's "take it or leave it." I'm envious of some of the prices you guys have gotten in other parts of the country.
If anyone has any good info or advice about buying here in So. Cal., I'd really appreciate it. Example: Would I do better waiting a couple of months until the 2005s are out?
Thanks.
Pete
pete419@aol.com
There are A LOT of 04 TL's at the dealerships around here so I think it's a buyer's market.
Good luck everyone...its a fun car!
If You stand at a busy intersection in a Big city
and ask every women to sleep with You,You will get Your face slapped a lot of times,BUT!!! YOU WILL GET TO SLEEP WITH A LOT OF WOMEN!!!
Do Not Settle for the fourth best.Good Shopping!
http://www.valenciaacura.com/en_US/CombinedVehicleSearch_1.chtml. Good luck and let us know how do you do.
Glad you had a good experience w/the dealer. You seems please w/your price. Did the dealer also throw in mats or other goodies with your price? Can I ask roughly how much you get your car for? It's my very first time buying a new car so the experience of going to the dealer to talk to those Salesmen can be nervous for me. Any tips will be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks,
Lucky
Thanks,
Lucky
Thanks for the information on TL inventory in L.A. Actually, I went over to Thomas Acura myself yesterday--and they had only one TL for sale. That contradicts what the inventory page on their website says. Same for Valencia Acura: their website shows 17 cars, but when you call, they only have two.
I asked the salesman at Valencia what was going on, and he apologized and explained that the websites are handled by an outside company and aren't up to date: they show what cars were inbound to the dealership but don't take into account the ones that have already been sold. I saw no reason for him to lie to me, so I guess that's the way it is.
Bottom line: It sounds as if 2004 TLs are in short supply in So. Cal.
Guess I'll just have to decide if I'm ready to pay $500 under sticker now or hold out . . . until . . .?
Pete
1. Price. I went to South Bay and was told that they are just going MSRP only, no negotiations. Called Cerritos and asked if they were selling for sticker; the salesperson said the absolute best deal they heard of was about $300 below MSRP. Called Covina and asked them if I could get it for $1000 below MSRP, and they hung up on me. Called Downey, to ask about availability- told them I didn't want the extras they added on- wheel locks, mud guards. They refused to sell without the extras- in fact the manager told the sales person they could remove them, put them in the trunk, and I could sell them on ebay if I wanted to.
Now just a couple hours ago I got an email from Downey, offering the TL with, mud guards, wheel locks and destination for $31788 (no nav), and with nav for $34088.
My guess from talking to these salespeople is that $500 off MSRP is likely, maybe $700-800 off if the stars align in your favor. But they're all making a huge push to sell at MSRP.
2. Availability. Most dealerships were completely out of TLs the past couple weeks, but I think most of them got large shipments today. This afternoon and evening, I got (literally) a bunch of phone calls telling me they got cars in today. Tustin said they got 6 in anthrocite in. South Bay is getting some in this week, and more next week.
When I looked at one dealership, they first talked about how tough one color was to find, and that it would be a 3 month wait to get that color in stock. When we started talking about leaving a deposit on a color, the sales guy talked to his manager and said they were getting two in the color I wanted within a week.
Another sales guy told me the TLs w/ nav are hard to find, but another sales guy told me that most of the ones coming in now are w/ nav. Yet another one told me that more of the 2005s will come with nav.
One last item here- I checked on the availability of TLs on each dealer website, and when I called to verify what they had in stock, the website info seemed to be inaccurate.
3. Transmission recall. Spoke with a higher up at Honda (got to be vague here) about the transmission recall on the earlier 2004 TLs (and Accord V6- offhand I don't know which other models were affected). Shouldn't be a problem on the current 2004 TLs, but it's a logistical nightmare for Honda/ Acura, as involves a huuuuge number of cars. Initially, it concerned me when I was looking into the TLs, but I'm ok with it now.
As far as what I'm going to do now, I may wait a few months, just to see if the supply/ demand changes. I tried checking into any other new 2005s that might steal the thunder from the TL, but I didn't see anything new in the same category/ price range as the TL.
But if any of you could post any info on dealers, prices, I'd really appreciate it.
I stopped by Downey Acura today and talked to the sales manager. For a TL auto w/ navi., he gave me a price of $34,500, including splash guards and wheel locks. I had a feeling he might go down a bit more, but not much. Also, he said the particular car I want--anthracite + camel--won't be coming in until the middle of September.
Chookalish, I'm wondering about that e-mail you got from Downey with the $34,088 quote. Was that accurate for that Acura? :-) The quote was about $1,100 off MSRP, and with some extras thrown in to boot. Right now I'm thinking that's a pretty good deal! But since you went on to say that someone could probably only get $700 to $800 off with the stars aligned favorably, I'm a little confused.
Pete
pete419@aol.com
As far as the price is concerned- well, I'm just not very good at math. (Actually I was in a rush and just didn't take the time to add things up.)
I'd be happy to forward you the email from Downey if you have any interest. In fact, if you want to discuss the LA dealers in detail, I'd be happy to give you my "non politically correct" version via email- if nothing else, you'd probably get a laugh out of it.
As far as the color combo you're interested in, did they (Downey) offer to trade out with any other local dealer? South Bay was willing to trade out to get the color combo I wanted.
Ken
Yes, please do forward me the e-mail from Downey--thanks! And I'd be very happy to hear your views on the LA dealers, PC or otherwise.
Trading out never came up in my brief discussion with the Downey sales manager. But it's good to know that some dealerships are doing that.
You can write to me at pete419@aol.com. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Pete
Sorry I was busy at work these 2 days. Here is the response to your questions:
1) The car came with its own floormat, but I didn't ask for the heavy duty. In fact, this deal didn't have any accessories at all.
2) I got below 1000 over invoice. I consider that a rather good deal, given that this is the Bay Area we are talking about Now, I got it when they have a sizable inventory on the lot. These few days, the inventory had lowered quite a bit it seems, so I am not sure if that price will be good anymore. However, if you are willing to wait a little bit, you can always wait for the time when the inventory is larger. That period will always give you an edge in negogiation. Also, start noting how long a car had sat in the lot. Go to the dealer's inventory on their website. Look specifical at the number A?????? Newer cars on the log should have a higher number then an older car. If you see an A056000, and then you see a A053000, you know that the A053000 car should have been on the lot longer than A056000. (if the factory makes 200 cars a day, and TLs are made in the same factory, then a difference of 3000 is roughly 15 days?...this is just a very very rough estimate) You can always play this to your advantage IF they have a good enough inventory. In this instance, it means that they have cars that they cannot sell, and that is in your advantage. When you negogiate, you are not negogiating for that A053000 mind you, since TL have the same equipment. You can always still get the newest car on the lot. Now, if they have like, 2 cars on the lot, then this method no longer holds true I believe. Simply put, if other dealers are all out, and this dealer has the last 2, they don't have to worry about selling it.
3) You may want to start keeping track of the dealer's inventory just to see if the flow of cars, just to give you an idea how quickly a car goes through a dealer. If it is slow, you can negogiate more. Otherwise, prices will be firm.
4) Very first time? Congratulations!! Here is a tip for you. Do not talk to salemen until you have contacted every Internet Sales Department. (You can do this by going to Acura.com). Immediately, you will have an idea who will give you the lowest price. Use this price and call other Internet Sales Managers, and say you have this offer, and will they be competitive and be lower. Do this a few times. From this experience, you can also gauge how well the dealer wants to deal with you. For example. If you talk to Dealer A, and ask, 'hey, Dealer B is giving me X dollars over invoice. Will you match?' If they are lightning quick in responding yes, you know there be more room to deal. The next call to Dealer C, you can say 'hey, Dealer A gave me an offer for X-100 dollars over invoice'. Some will say, well, sounds like you have a great deal! Then you know they don't have the inventory to accomodate your price. Move on to the next one. Everytime you got something lower, ask that they provide you with an email or a fax that will say "I will sell you for X dollars over invoice". They will also ask you to come into their dealership. Do schedule one, if you can, and schedule one that is a few days away. Then you can always use it as your leveage by saying to Dealer C...hey, if you are not able to do this. Then it's okay. I will go to Dealer B. This way, they know that they are not the sole competitor for YOUR business. And that may change their stances. Then again, it may not.
Just remember. YOU are in control. Be prepared to walk. If they will not honor a price, then politely thank them for their time, and leave. Remember that YOU are in charge of the money. YOU are giving them the money. Don't be nervous. Treat it as a game. It may even be fun!!
Let me know if you have more questions!
aahwang