this is an unbelievable price. the invoice price without any options is $22,461 you have so many options included but with such a low price. could you please tell me which dealership you was dealing with? Thanks alot
Looking for ideas of a descent price for Limited V6 Rav 4 4WD with Option "F" (JBL system with Bluetooth, heated leather seats, power moonroof, running headlights, tow package, floor/cargo mats)
There was a trade in that was subtracted by the actual sale price. The post doesnt mention how much his trade was given and therefore how much the actual selling price was.
He could have had a 5k trade which boosts his sale price to 27k!
thank you for explaining this. it really help me out. Do you think it is possible that I can get an invoice price, or even below, for rav4 in NJ area? i 'll go and buy this Friday. So any input, any suggestion from anybody will be greatly appreciated.
Hi guys, I'm still waiting for loans to buy, but here is the info I've gotten so far. This is all around the south florida area.
Toyota of Hollywood 2008 4wd sport v4 for $24,873 OTD
Maroone Toyota 2007 4x4 Limited V6 $27,518
Al Hendrickson Toyota 2008 4x4 Limited V6 $27,500
Lehman Toyota 2008 4wd Sport V6 $24,807.27
I thought it was interesting that the 2007 was $18 more than the 2008! Anyway, I'm still looking, but until the loans, it's not a furious crusade for info. There are not many 4wd down here, that's for sure! Good luck to all you guys with your buys! Wendy
Like some of you, I'm looking for a 2008 RAV4, 4WD V6 Limited with leather seats, mats, Blizzard White, underbody sealant, no 3rd row seat, and the towing package. Is $26,500 too much to pay, not counting tax and title? It's hard to find a 4WD down here in Louisiana but I don't want to get taken advantage of. Any advice would be appreciated, and yes, I have read the postings...
you got a very very good deal. :P Actually, we also bought one base model today.
we first looked at limited trim but can not get price down even close to the invoice price. so we gave up that dealership and went to another dealership. however, in second dealership they do not carry the limited trim with preferred color. so finally we chose the base model.
08 Rav4 V6 4wD DR FE CD RL TO CF MF the final price is $23600+ state MV+TT+tax
I checked the edmunds.com and invoice is about $23,790 so I think it is a not bad deal. I learned a lot from this board before i went to negotiate with dealers. Thanks alot.
My New Rav4 that I have been waiting for since 6feb08 just arrived this week, however during the delivery it was battered with salt and sand (road grim on the transport) Apart from a few scratches there was also evident clear coat damage at the front driver side pillar. My dealership did not have it re-clear coated and figures that buffing it would fix the problems. When I went in to see the Rav there are clearly swirl marks in the areas they attempt to fix (looked like fine steel wool swirls scratches), and to top it off the Rav was filthy. The color I chose is black and I am aware that black vehicles do show some marks. When talking to the sales person I get the feeling as if he thinks I am too picky, and they keep on telling me to wait and see it when they polish and buff it again. I don't see why I should have to take the new vehicle that needs to have the scratches buffed out of it. I have told them that I want a new vehicle ordered but have not as of yet heard when the new one will be delivered..looking for some advice of what to do next? I have already given a 500 deposit and ultimately do want to get a Rav4.
Hi Mischa, I don't know the options, actually. Sorry about that. I was kinda just fishing around for prices before options. I'm a very slow planner when it comes to stuff like this (spending lots of money). But when I start up again and find out more, I will let you know! wendy
hi wendy thanks for input. I just bought my rav4 yesterday.you may find my report about price and options here. hope you get yours soon with a good price and your favorite options. good luck. :P
You don't need to take delivery of a car that endured damage during transportation -- you are after all paying for a brand new car. If the dealer doesn't want to reship you a new car, take the offer the gave you, to another dealer and get your $500 back.
Remember, once you take delivery, you don't have much say.
Gotta get this off my chest. It's been 5 years since I bought a new car and 12 years since I bought a Toyota (Honda and Infiniti since then).
WOW - what a bunch of richard craniums those Toyota dealers have become! Do they really think we are that stupid? And what is this mandatory "dealer processing fee" all about? They don't have that at Honda or Infiniti.
But the best part was I didn't need the RAV4 so I was able to walk away (several times) until they sold it to me at my price. Might've helped that I did the deal today (3/31/08) - month end and a quarter end.
Here's the deal I got; be interested in your comments on the price. 2008 RAV4 LTD V6 4x4 (model 4453) with FE EJ HD LA RL SR TO CF WL MSRP (including freight): $31,015. INVOICE (including freight): $28,339. PAID $28,380 (INVOICE + $41dealer processing fee) + taxes and new tags. In Maryland, that came to $30,305 OTD. Dealer was Jones Toyota in Bel Air, MD.
Went to Valley Hi Toyota in Victorville California today to check on a Rav4. All I knew I wanted was a V6 and the wife wanted leather so we decided on a limited. It is hard for me to buy something that is supposed to be a SUV without 4 wheel drive but they are very hard to find in the desert and I don’t really need one anyway. I have to admit I hate to buy cars so but this really could not have gone better. We came in after they took all the information. They told me they usually get $1000 over invoice and I smiled and said I usually pay $500 under. 10 minutes later they came back about $300 under and we had a deal.
Ok here is the price $26,545 before taxes and $28,931 out the door. Finance offered the services but never did try and push anything. I already had financing for 5.5% with capitol one but they were able to offer me 5% so I took it. No trade in. Other than the normal signing my life away it was pretty painless.
I went to a dealer close to my township in the west suburb Phli. They offered me a $21,995 plus tax and tag for a RAV4 4x4 base. Is this a good deal? It seems above the invoice provided by edmunds.
The $300 would be off the dealers invoice. I am not sure exactly how much it was exactly but within around $20. Edmunds invoice does not include the TDA which if I remember right was a little over $200. My price would only be about $80 under Edmunds invoice. Really the only question they asked was how much I wanted to pay and I did a quick calculation and said I wanted it for $29,000 out the door. They came back in a few minutes with the price.
I really feel the reason it was so easy was they knew I would only go for a good deal, but the biggest reason was it was the end of the month and late in the day. Could I have gotten a little more off the price? Maybe but they gave me a very good deal and I would have been a jerk for backing out of a deal after they met my terms.
I was wondering how $28,339 = invoice + freight when I priced this out on edmunds not including WL, invoice + freight(destination) came to $27,642.
I don't mean to sound sarcastic and I am not trying to sound insulting in anyway, am I missing something? I just want to make sure I have all the details.
eynht - I saw that also, but there are some flaws with the Edmunds total. Edmunds does not provide an invoice price for the floor mats (CF) in their calculation. It should be $126. That brings the invoice up to $27,768. The wheel locks (WL) are $81 MSRP and $65 invoice.That brings the invoice up to $27,833. Edmunds does not provide the cost of advertising in their invoice prices (although they do make a note about it right under the National Base Price). In Maryland, it is $506 (saw it on the dealers paperwork). That brings the invoice up to $28,339.
Unfortunately these so-called "invoice" prices have become worthless because they include crap that the dealers never really pay for. For example, did you know that the $24,405 "base invoice" on Edmunds really includes $804 in dealer holdbacks and reserves (a total of 3% of the base MSRP) and that the REAL base invoice is $23,601? Bottom line is that, for this vehicle, the dealer has about $1,310 of profit ($804 + $506) already built into the bogus "invoice".
It wasn't that way when the concept of showing invoices first started out about 20 years ago. But since we've been conditioned by the manufacturers to think that an invoice deal is good, they had no choice but to inflate the REAL invoice and create a bogus "invoice" which Toyota actually generates for them to show to us.
But I can still tell my friends I only paid $41 over the "invoice" (even if it wasn't real) because 98% of the people out there don't have a clue about this stuf.
You are correct that the invoice price does not include holdback. It is 3% on Toyota and most American cars. This is pretty widely known information and easy to find out. Really why would a dealer sell for less than he paid for it? Now I will take exception on how much profit a dealer really gets though. First off is TDA, which is an advertising fee paid to Toyota. It is not profit for the dealer. It is the cost of all those cute commercials. Now the other $804 would be better described as gross and not profit because the salesman has to be paid, expenses for the building and interest on the cars on the lot (which I believe was one of the original reasons for holdback) have to be paid. The real profit in a dealership is used cars and the shop. They also make a killing on financing and warranties.
Now occasionally the dealers get bonuses for selling so many units and that is why you are often able to get really good deals at certain times. Now a salesman I talked to the other day, not the one who sold me the car, told me that his profit is usually $150 to $200 a car but he got a bonus if he sold 15 that month. He also told me he got a minimum of $100 on any sale.
Really being an informed consumer is the best way to insure you are getting a fair deal.
am I wrong? the "invoice" I calculated is 27312 including destination.
Tow Prep Package TO 128 JBL Stereo EJ 480 Third Row Seat TH 560 PC Special Color PC 176 Carpet Floor/Mat CF 126 Moonroof SR 720 Daytime Running Lights RL 32 Cargo Mat ?
the only item that I have no idea about is it includes two cargo mat :surprise:
mischa - if you use Edmunds invoice prices, you are correct at $27,312. But if the dealer were to show you their invoice from TOYOTA, it will also include advertising (aka TDA) which is typically around $500. When you add that, the number comes to about $27,800. Which is why I replied to jpierce75 that the deal looked to be about $200 below invoice.
But it is arguable as to what "invoice" means. I am basing my comments on the invoice from TOYOTA, not Edmunds invoice numbers. Edmunds invoice numbers do not include TDA, which is a real charge from TOYOTA to the dealer.
Having said that however, it should be noted that the base invoice price shown on Edmunds ($24,405) DOES include 2 other charges from TOYOTA to the dealer known as Dealer Holdback and Wholesale Financial Reserve. They represent 2% and 1% respectively of the base MSRP. In the case of a LTD V6 4x4, it amounts to $804 being added to the REAL base invoice price of $23,601. While these are charges that the dealer is supposed to pay to TOYOTA, they seldom do so because of "incentives" that the dealer earns (e.g., selling a high number of cars in a given month). This means that we, the consumer, think we are buying at true invoice when, in fact, the factory to dealer charges are bogus and are used simply to guarantee a profit to the dealer.
Many years ago, Edmunds did not include Holdback and Reserve in their base invoice prices and displayed the REAL invoice numbers. This made for an educated consumer and a frustrated dealer. I think the manufacturers have pressured Edmunds and others over the years to include (i.e., bury) those items in the so-called "invoice" so consumers would forget about them and the dealers would have an automatic profit.
wow, so eduational. I am not sure if my understanding is correct, please see below. even if the "invoice" listed in edmund.com is 27,312, the real invoice that dealer pay manufacture is 3% of MSPR below this value, which is 27,312 - 3%*MSPR am I right?
if it is sold at this real invoice price, dealer will earn nothing?
mischa - yes, you are on the right track. Below is the detail for the "bogus" TOYOTA invoice for the vehicle we are talking about. It will match what the dealer shows you if you ask to see the TOYOTA invoice. Your job (if you decide to accept it) is to refuse to pay the Holdback and Reserve. You should insist that these are bogus because the dealer (almost) never pays these charges back to the factory (so why should you?). With that in mind, the REAL invoice for this car is $27,079. If you pay that, then the dealer makes nothing. But you should probably be nice and give them a $100 profit.
BASE 4x4 LTD V6 $23,601.00 Freight $685.00 Dealer Holdback (2% of base MSRP) $536.00 Wholesale Financial Reserve (1% of base MSRP) $268.00 TDA (advertising) $496.00 Gas $10.00 TH Third Row Seat $560.00 PC Special Color $176.00 TO Tow Prep $128.00 SR Moon Roof $720.00 EJ Radio $480.00 RL Running Lights $32.00 WL Wheel Locks $65.00 CF Floor Mats (dealer Installed) $126.00 GRAND TOTAL $27,883.00
Mischa you are partially correct. The real invoice (or cost to the dealer) is Edmunds, plus TDA minus the 3%. The TDA or advertising fee is not the same in all areas of the country. Mine was only a little over $200 I believe. I should have written it down but I remember it was less than the high 300’s I was expecting. Also the holdback and financial reserve are held back by Toyota and paid to the dealer later. The dealer has to finance all the new cars on the lot and this money is deducted from money that is withheld.
I have no idea if Edmunds ever posted the “real” invoice but really the present system works better for the informed consumer. If you have the internet it is easy to find out how much the invoice really is. I know I hate to haggle for a new car but really, because I do my research, I think I get a better deal than the average Joe off the street. Also getting a good deal on a Toyota has a lot to do with what part of the country you are in. I feel the in Southern California it is usually pretty easy. There are just way too many dealers out there.
And good luck with watsac’s advise. Really if the dealer is only making $100 (probably less than the salesman is making) he will not stay in business very long. To say what is a fair profit is, is hard to determine. Mine is as low as they will go but to be realistic they are not going to stay in business very long at even $500 a unit profit. Really any deal you are happy with is a good deal.
I have done my "homework". I used "competative bidding". I recognize deception inclusive of bait and switch methods.
The entire process is designed to confuse even the intelligent and diligent consumer. I believe in win-win for all parties but it must begin and end with honesty - from the manufacturer, the dealer and the consumer. I cannot be happy about a deal if I even suspect I have been played. The degree to which consumers have been manipulated into thinking they have accurate information is unfortunate. Perhaps I should just use my bike, take public transportation or walk. Do I really need a car? As our economy tanks, it will be more about what we need than what we want.
shasta67 - I agree that a $100 profit is unreasonable. It was really a tongue-in-cheek comment. But in reality, that is a very good starting point for negotiations. Let the dealer counteroffer and take it UP from there instead of using their strategy of starting with the MSRP and coming down.
By the way, it has been an unexpected pleasure to discuss this with people who are obviously intelligent about these matters. So many are not and that can make for some frustrating conversations.
shasta67 I agree with you totally on the point that " the deal you are happy with is a good deal" so far I love my RAV4.
I think I get a not bad deal based on what I learn from watsac and shasta67. Of course, dealer must have earned what they need to earn from me. I am happy to live with three win situation. :P
watsac, :P now it is a clear picture for me. and I know where to find the start point to negotiate next time I decide to buy another new car from dealer.
Hi everyone. Normally have bought cars and kept them for a long time, but leasing for the first time. Interested in a RAV 4 Limited V6 with Option Package C and Blizzard Pearl paint. In Bellevue, WA I'm coming up with about $393 per month for a 36-month, 12,000 mile per year lease (based on agreed upon value of vehicle of $29,200). I suppose I can take the assignment fee and Gap insurance cost out of this too...
- is this a 4x4 or a 4x2? - what do you mean by "agreed upon value"? - are you putting any money down? - do you have to pay sales tax on a lease in WA?
Thanks Watsac...yes, I left out some info. 4X4, $29201 looks to be about $350 above invoice for this vehicle, putting $3,000 down, and I do have to pay tax (which is not included). It will have the C option package plus the auto-dimming mirrors and bumper applique.
poet663 - if I got this right, your invoice (from Edmunds) is about $28,248, not including TDA (advertising) which varies by region. According to the TOYOTA.COM website, Package C has TO SR EJ HD LA RL and CF. On top of that you have PC for the Blizzard Pearl paint and accessories EF and N1 (I estimated 75% of sticker for EF and N1). Here's the detail:
Base Price $24,405.00 TO Tow Prep $128.00 SR Moon Roof $720.00 EJ Radio $480.00 HD Heated Seats $352.00 LA Leather Seats $840.00 RL Running Lights $32.00 CF Floor Mats $126.00 PC Special Color - Blizzard Pearl $176.00 EF Rear bumper applique $56.00 N1 Auto dimming mirror $248.00 TDA $0.00 Delivery charge (freight) $685.00
TOTAL INVOICE $28,248.00
TOTAL MSRP (sticker) $31,559.00
On the leasing side, you worry about 3 numbers in addition to your money factor, residual rate and term. -Total Capitalized Costs (PV) -Residual value (FV) -Total Money Used (Depreciation)
To get a monthly payment of $393 for a money factor of .00245, a residual rate of 55% and a 36 month term, the PV is about $27,550, the FV is about $17,350 and the depreciation is about $10,190. The important one to you is PV - that's the amount of money on which your lease payment is based. I know this is complicated but it's very easy for a dealer to screw you over in a lease because the lingo is different than a straight up sale. I have a spreadsheet that I would be glad to email to you. Just send me your address.
hi am about to purchase a limted rav4 AWD V4-red went to consumer reports rock bottom price is: 22652 + extras (heated seats, moonroof, jbl,)=23492---what is navi price? and what is strategy to negotiate up? and ideas or thoughts?
puppyhead - here's a breakdown of the invoice prices for the vehicle you describe. These numbers are from Edmunds.com. It does not include TDA (advertising) which is charged to the dealer and varies throughout the country (on the east coast it is about $500). These are reliable numbers; you should compare them closely to consumer reports.
BASE 4x4 LTD 4cyl $22,663.00 Freight $685.00 SR Moon Roof $720.00 EJ Radio $480.00 HD Heated Seats $352.00 TOTAL INVOICE $24,900.00
As you can see, the TOTAL INVOICE is $24,900 and that is where you should start your negotiations. Let the dealer take it up from there but have a limit in your head as to how much higher you will go. Times are tough in the car market right now and you should be able to get your car at invoice --- but it may require some shopping around.
We are looking for a 2008 RAV4 V6 4x4 Base around Philly area, and we just found a vehicle with the options CD DR AW RL TO CF.
We checked the Edmunds. After excluding the Holdback and Financial Reserves, the invoice price with the listed options is $22,648. The destination charge is $685 and the advertising fee (TDA) $478. Those bring the final invoice price up to $23811. It's likely we would finace the car at the dealership. So, would it be reasonable if we set our negotiate bottom line at $24,000?
Hey not a problem. I agree that $100 over actual price is probably a good place to start. You never know they may just need to sell a car that day. That is the reason I like to shop at the end of the month..
symmetry - just my 2 cents. I admire and recommend your low starting point strategy, specifically how you have deducted the Holdback and Reserve. However, I would be prepared to pay up to the full "bogus" invoice of $24,550. Most dealers just will not give up that Holdback and Reserve money.
4x4 base V6 $21,720.00 Freight $685.00 Dealer Holdback (2% of base sticker) $494.00 Wholesale Financial Reserve (1% of base sticker) $247.00 TDA $478.00 Gas $0.00 CD Tonneau Cover $112.00 DR Roof Rack $176.00 AW 17" Alloy Wheel $352.00 RL Running Lights $32.00 TO Tow Prep $128.00 CF Carpet Floor/Cargo Mat Set $126.00 INVOICE TOTAL $24,550.00
I'm new to the market and decided I cant afford a 2008 sport of limited..which is what i want.
I've started to look for lightly used 2007 and 2006 sports or LTD. Most seem to be under 20k MILES and around 22-24 thousand dollars. This seems a little on the expensive side...I was thinking around 20K is fair for a used vehicle like a rav for that probably had a selling price of <25-27K when it sold. What are your thoughts?
Also...things to look out for with these model years. As far as I know the RAV4 has always been top breed....did the 2006 model change effect any quality or performance...or is the '06'-'08 unchanged.
Comments
the invoice price without any options is $22,461
you have so many options included but with such a low price.
could you please tell me which dealership you was dealing with? Thanks alot
What's a good price and which dealership.
thanks
He could have had a 5k trade which boosts his sale price to 27k!
Do you think it is possible that I can get an invoice price, or even below, for rav4 in NJ area?
i 'll go and buy this Friday. So any input, any suggestion from anybody will be greatly appreciated.
I'm still waiting for loans to buy, but here is the info I've gotten so far. This is all around the south florida area.
Toyota of Hollywood 2008 4wd sport v4 for $24,873 OTD
Maroone Toyota 2007 4x4 Limited V6 $27,518
Al Hendrickson Toyota 2008 4x4 Limited V6 $27,500
Lehman Toyota 2008 4wd Sport V6 $24,807.27
I thought it was interesting that the 2007 was $18 more than the 2008! Anyway, I'm still looking, but until the loans, it's not a furious crusade for info. There are not many 4wd down here, that's for sure! Good luck to all you guys with your buys!
Wendy
could you please what options are included for 2008 4x4 Limited V6 $27,500?
thanks
FE Federal Emissions
EJ JBL Radio
HD Heated Seats
LA Leather Seats
RL Running Lights
SR Moonroof
TO Towing Package -- no hitch
CF Mats
SUV was purchased in the Valley Forge, PA area. My thanks to all for the information posted on this forum -- very helpful.
Actually, we also bought one base model today.
we first looked at limited trim but can not get price down even close to the invoice price. so we gave up that dealership and went to another dealership. however, in second dealership they do not carry the limited trim with preferred color. so finally we chose the base model.
08 Rav4 V6 4wD
DR
FE
CD
RL
TO
CF
MF
the final price is $23600+ state MV+TT+tax
I checked the edmunds.com and invoice is about $23,790
so I think it is a not bad deal. I learned a lot from this board before i went to negotiate with dealers. Thanks alot.
I don't know the options, actually. Sorry about that. I was kinda just fishing around for prices before options. I'm a very slow planner when it comes to stuff like this (spending lots of money). But when I start up again and find out more, I will let you know!
wendy
thanks for input.
I just bought my rav4 yesterday.you may find my report about price and options here.
hope you get yours soon with a good price and your favorite options.
good luck. :P
You don't need to take delivery of a car that endured damage during transportation -- you are after all paying for a brand new car. If the dealer doesn't want to reship you a new car, take the offer the gave you, to another dealer and get your $500 back.
Remember, once you take delivery, you don't have much say.
WOW - what a bunch of richard craniums those Toyota dealers have become! Do they really think we are that stupid? And what is this mandatory "dealer processing fee" all about? They don't have that at Honda or Infiniti.
But the best part was I didn't need the RAV4 so I was able to walk away (several times) until they sold it to me at my price. Might've helped that I did the deal today (3/31/08) - month end and a quarter end.
Here's the deal I got; be interested in your comments on the price.
2008 RAV4 LTD V6 4x4 (model 4453) with FE EJ HD LA RL SR TO CF WL
MSRP (including freight): $31,015.
INVOICE (including freight): $28,339.
PAID $28,380 (INVOICE + $41dealer processing fee) + taxes and new tags.
In Maryland, that came to $30,305 OTD.
Dealer was Jones Toyota in Bel Air, MD.
Ok here is the price $26,545 before taxes and $28,931 out the door. Finance offered the services but never did try and push anything. I already had financing for 5.5% with capitol one but they were able to offer me 5% so I took it. No trade in. Other than the normal signing my life away it was pretty painless.
it is really a good deal I have ever seen so far
could you please tell us the "invoice" you mean is from dealership or from edmund?
thanks
I really feel the reason it was so easy was they knew I would only go for a good deal, but the biggest reason was it was the end of the month and late in the day. Could I have gotten a little more off the price? Maybe but they gave me a very good deal and I would have been a jerk for backing out of a deal after they met my terms.
I was wondering how $28,339 = invoice + freight
when I priced this out on edmunds not including WL, invoice + freight(destination) came to $27,642.
I don't mean to sound sarcastic and I am not trying to sound insulting in anyway, am I missing something? I just want to make sure I have all the details.
Unfortunately these so-called "invoice" prices have become worthless because they include crap that the dealers never really pay for. For example, did you know that the $24,405 "base invoice" on Edmunds really includes $804 in dealer holdbacks and reserves (a total of 3% of the base MSRP) and that the REAL base invoice is $23,601? Bottom line is that, for this vehicle, the dealer has about $1,310 of profit ($804 + $506) already built into the bogus "invoice".
It wasn't that way when the concept of showing invoices first started out about 20 years ago. But since we've been conditioned by the manufacturers to think that an invoice deal is good, they had no choice but to inflate the REAL invoice and create a bogus "invoice" which Toyota actually generates for them to show to us.
But I can still tell my friends I only paid $41 over the "invoice" (even if it wasn't real) because 98% of the people out there don't have a clue about this stuf.
thanks :P
Now occasionally the dealers get bonuses for selling so many units and that is why you are often able to get really good deals at certain times. Now a salesman I talked to the other day, not the one who sold me the car, told me that his profit is usually $150 to $200 a car but he got a bonus if he sold 15 that month. He also told me he got a minimum of $100 on any sale.
Really being an informed consumer is the best way to insure you are getting a fair deal.
Tow Prep Package TO
JBL Stereo EJ
Third Row Seat TH
PC Special Color PC
Carpet Floor/Mat CF
Moonroof SR
Daytime Running Lights RL
Cargo Mat
I think I am happy with that!!
the "invoice" I calculated is 27312 including destination.
Tow Prep Package TO 128
JBL Stereo EJ 480
Third Row Seat TH 560
PC Special Color PC 176
Carpet Floor/Mat CF 126
Moonroof SR 720
Daytime Running Lights RL 32
Cargo Mat ?
the only item that I have no idea about is it includes two cargo mat
:surprise:
But it is arguable as to what "invoice" means. I am basing my comments on the invoice from TOYOTA, not Edmunds invoice numbers. Edmunds invoice numbers do not include TDA, which is a real charge from TOYOTA to the dealer.
Having said that however, it should be noted that the base invoice price shown on Edmunds ($24,405) DOES include 2 other charges from TOYOTA to the dealer known as Dealer Holdback and Wholesale Financial Reserve. They represent 2% and 1% respectively of the base MSRP. In the case of a LTD V6 4x4, it amounts to $804 being added to the REAL base invoice price of $23,601. While these are charges that the dealer is supposed to pay to TOYOTA, they seldom do so because of "incentives" that the dealer earns (e.g., selling a high number of cars in a given month). This means that we, the consumer, think we are buying at true invoice when, in fact, the factory to dealer charges are bogus and are used simply to guarantee a profit to the dealer.
Many years ago, Edmunds did not include Holdback and Reserve in their base invoice prices and displayed the REAL invoice numbers. This made for an educated consumer and a frustrated dealer. I think the manufacturers have pressured Edmunds and others over the years to include (i.e., bury) those items in the so-called "invoice" so consumers would forget about them and the dealers would have an automatic profit.
I am not sure if my understanding is correct, please see below.
even if the "invoice" listed in edmund.com is 27,312, the real invoice that dealer pay manufacture is 3% of MSPR below this value, which is 27,312 - 3%*MSPR
am I right?
if it is sold at this real invoice price, dealer will earn nothing?
Thank you very much for input
BASE 4x4 LTD V6 $23,601.00
Freight $685.00
Dealer Holdback (2% of base MSRP) $536.00
Wholesale Financial Reserve (1% of base MSRP) $268.00
TDA (advertising) $496.00
Gas $10.00
TH Third Row Seat $560.00
PC Special Color $176.00
TO Tow Prep $128.00
SR Moon Roof $720.00
EJ Radio $480.00
RL Running Lights $32.00
WL Wheel Locks $65.00
CF Floor Mats (dealer Installed) $126.00
GRAND TOTAL $27,883.00
I have no idea if Edmunds ever posted the “real” invoice but really the present system works better for the informed consumer. If you have the internet it is easy to find out how much the invoice really is. I know I hate to haggle for a new car but really, because I do my research, I think I get a better deal than the average Joe off the street. Also getting a good deal on a Toyota has a lot to do with what part of the country you are in. I feel the in Southern California it is usually pretty easy. There are just way too many dealers out there.
And good luck with watsac’s advise. Really if the dealer is only making $100 (probably less than the salesman is making) he will not stay in business very long. To say what is a fair profit is, is hard to determine. Mine is as low as they will go but to be realistic they are not going to stay in business very long at even $500 a unit profit. Really any deal you are happy with is a good deal.
The entire process is designed to confuse even the intelligent and diligent consumer. I believe in win-win for all parties but it must begin and end with honesty - from the manufacturer, the dealer and the consumer. I cannot be happy about a deal if I even suspect I have been played. The degree to which consumers have been manipulated into thinking they have accurate information is unfortunate. Perhaps I should just use my bike, take public transportation or walk. Do I really need a car? As our economy tanks, it will be more about what we need than what we want.
By the way, it has been an unexpected pleasure to discuss this with people who are obviously intelligent about these matters. So many are not and that can make for some frustrating conversations.
I agree with you totally on the point that " the deal you are happy with is a good deal"
so far I love my RAV4.
I think I get a not bad deal based on what I learn from watsac and shasta67. Of course, dealer must have earned what they need to earn from me. I am happy to live with three win situation. :P
now it is a clear picture for me. and I know where to find the start point to negotiate next time I decide to buy another new car from dealer.
Thanks a lot.
Money factor is .00245 and residual is 55%.
Feedback? Thanks...
- is this a 4x4 or a 4x2?
- what do you mean by "agreed upon value"?
- are you putting any money down?
- do you have to pay sales tax on a lease in WA?
Base Price $24,405.00
TO Tow Prep $128.00
SR Moon Roof $720.00
EJ Radio $480.00
HD Heated Seats $352.00
LA Leather Seats $840.00
RL Running Lights $32.00
CF Floor Mats $126.00
PC Special Color - Blizzard Pearl $176.00
EF Rear bumper applique $56.00
N1 Auto dimming mirror $248.00
TDA $0.00
Delivery charge (freight) $685.00
TOTAL INVOICE $28,248.00
TOTAL MSRP (sticker) $31,559.00
On the leasing side, you worry about 3 numbers in addition to your money factor, residual rate and term.
-Total Capitalized Costs (PV)
-Residual value (FV)
-Total Money Used (Depreciation)
To get a monthly payment of $393 for a money factor of .00245, a residual rate of 55% and a 36 month term, the PV is about $27,550, the FV is about $17,350 and the depreciation is about $10,190. The important one to you is PV - that's the amount of money on which your lease payment is based. I know this is complicated but it's very easy for a dealer to screw you over in a lease because the lingo is different than a straight up sale. I have a spreadsheet that I would be glad to email to you. Just send me your address.
am about to purchase a limted rav4 AWD V4-red
went to consumer reports rock bottom price is: 22652 + extras (heated seats, moonroof, jbl,)=23492---what is navi price? and what is strategy to negotiate up? and ideas or thoughts?
BASE 4x4 LTD 4cyl $22,663.00
Freight $685.00
SR Moon Roof $720.00
EJ Radio $480.00
HD Heated Seats $352.00
TOTAL INVOICE $24,900.00
As you can see, the TOTAL INVOICE is $24,900 and that is where you should start your negotiations. Let the dealer take it up from there but have a limit in your head as to how much higher you will go. Times are tough in the car market right now and you should be able to get your car at invoice --- but it may require some shopping around.
my email address:fourfun@gmail.com
We checked the Edmunds. After excluding the Holdback and Financial Reserves, the invoice price with the listed options is $22,648. The destination charge is $685 and the advertising fee (TDA) $478. Those bring the final invoice price up to $23811. It's likely we would finace the car at the dealership. So, would it be reasonable if we set our negotiate bottom line at $24,000?
Any input would be appreciated.
I appreciate it.
4x4 base V6 $21,720.00
Freight $685.00
Dealer Holdback (2% of base sticker) $494.00
Wholesale Financial Reserve (1% of base sticker) $247.00
TDA $478.00
Gas $0.00
CD Tonneau Cover $112.00
DR Roof Rack $176.00
AW 17" Alloy Wheel $352.00
RL Running Lights $32.00
TO Tow Prep $128.00
CF Carpet Floor/Cargo Mat Set $126.00
INVOICE TOTAL $24,550.00
Some very helpful stuff up here lately. Its great
I'm new to the market and decided I cant afford a 2008 sport of limited..which is what i want.
I've started to look for lightly used 2007 and 2006 sports or LTD. Most seem to be under 20k MILES and around 22-24 thousand dollars. This seems a little on the expensive side...I was thinking around 20K is fair for a used vehicle like a rav for that probably had a selling price of <25-27K when it sold. What are your thoughts?
Also...things to look out for with these model years. As far as I know the RAV4 has always been top breed....did the 2006 model change effect any quality or performance...or is the '06'-'08 unchanged.
Thanks in advance!
Nick