afraid I don't know how to do the link - but if you go to post 1058 in the 07 Camry Woes forum there it is. It is lengthy and is largely instructions to replace the part. The last part of the TSB deals with the 'computer' reset procedures.
interesting also to note that per this TSB, how you press the accelerator apparently DOES make a difference - a contention that havalongavalon (and others) discovered several months back
Or maybe, possibly more correctly, it has to do with the way you release, lift, the accelerator pedal.
To a programmer, or say an engineer writing the specification for the engine/transaxle ECU firmware, lifting the accelerator abruptly and all the way would/might "imply" a wish to coastdown to a lower speed. In that circumstance remaining in the current gear would seem most appropriate. The above sequence may even be used to set the stage for a downshift if subsequently the brakes are applied.
On the other hand if you simply "feathered" the pedal to a shallower position that, seemingly, would/might imply a wish to enter cruising "mode", and an upshift would likely be more appropriate.
Back in the fifties when automatics first began to appear we soon learned that if we wished the transmission (no transaxles back then) to upshift sooner all we had to do was slightly lift the accelerator pedal momentarily.
So those of you experiencing this problem might want to practice completely closing the throttle until, if, you subsequently reach the point/decision, to accelerate.
Keep in mind that applying your foot higher on the pedal, which seems to have helped in some cases, would require more force and therefore lifting the pedal would likely both be more "abrupt" and a shorter travel distance.
I don't get it...it seems their talking to a Toyoata rep about this problem on the 2007 Camry within that 07 Camry Woes forum.
why don't we have a Toyota rep in this forum? I mean, did the Toyota rep just stumble upon that forum and joined? I think not.
I mean we payed some good money for our Avalon's, why don't we have the same access to that Toyota rep the 07 Camry's have? And, why are they sorta ignoring our problem with the transmissions, but not ignoring the 07 Camry's problems?
just a guess - tmusa appeared on the Camry sites at the same time that the Camry 6 speed was having some mechanical failures (not 'simply' operational oddities) which I'm sure from Toyota's perspective is a more serious 'quality' related issue - something they simply can't have on a car that sells 400000 units a year. The Avalon 5 speed - no mechanical failures TMK although certainly a number of folks out there that don't like the way it operates.
well, if that's the case, I still think they should at least be taking part in our discussions we're having on the Avalon transmission issue. That would be nice. But, they don't even do that. Maybe someone should direct that poster 'tmusa', over on the Camry boards to peak into here or at least make him aware we're discussing a problem over here with a Toyota product and maybe he can get someone else from Toyoata to join us, that would at least help. Even maybe get someone from Toyota to explain why the car does what it does, especially Avalons equiped with the VSC. I don't think that's to much to ask from Toyota.
the appearance of tmusa seemed to correspond with a number of photos that appeared on the site - pictures of Camrys loaded up onto wreckers - very effective it turns out. Some substantiation, as well, that Toyota does at least monitor what we are saying. And yes, an Avalon owner tried exactly what you suggest and was brushed aside as 'off topic'. As far as the tranny behavior is concerned, I really believe that there is either nothing that can be done about it or Toyota hasn't figured out a way to tame these essentially electronic gremlins. As far as VSC and TRAC go, you need to understand that these 'safety' features do - stop you from doing something that IT doesn't 'think' you should!
newer mostly are better (or why buy "new car"?), not guaranteed better. you do your study and make your point of view. One can always choose to believe their old car is better just because it is theirs.
ctl - in the context of this discussion and my original point is that there is mounting evidence that the new 6 speed has the same (and maybe more) than the year old 5 speed in the Avalon and furthermore that the 05/06 5 speeds are certainly more problematic to many owners than the old column mounted 4 speed. I own an 05 Touring and have driven it 33000 miles to this point, and yep - it is the most powerful, economical, and comfortable car I've ever owned. No plans to trade it in, drive too many miles for a lease, so therefore will likely keep it until the wheels fall off. And no, my transmission has NOT been what I would call any sort of problem - perhaps because of the way I 'learned' to drive it. The 07 models are apparently continuing with little change including the 5 speed. My point - if more is better, buy the (otherwise well designed) Five Hundred 6 speed then you can have not only a transmission that doesn't know what gear to be in but a car that is too slow to boot. You'll save some money - at least initially.
I have had my Limited Avalon since March 05 and a couple of weeks ago, got my first shopping cart dent. I am so careful to park way off by myself. I am sure someone purposefully pushed their cart into my car. Anyway, I took it to a paintless dent repair shop today (recommended to me by a large dealership)and they worked on it about 45 minutes (no charge) and said they couldn't get it out because there was too sharp a crease and it would crack the paint. He said they could repair it and paint it ($225). I hate to do that because it is the cassis pearl and I'm afraid the paint will be difficult to match. He said they do it all the time. This company works primarily with auto dealerships repairing brand new cars that get dinged at the car lots or in delivery. I was shocked that dealerships would sell a car that had been dented and repaired - especially painted. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone has had their door painted and if anyone thinks it would be a problem. The company said they guarantee their work. They had a map of the area that showed all of the dealerships they do repair work for. The dent is all I can see when I look at my car now.
We're currently in a small town called Kingston, on the Fundy coast of Nova Scotia's lower peninsula. Our B&B has the net, so here goes the next episode. Let the criticism fall where it may! Again, so far so good. Total 7400 kms (approx 4000 miles) to date and climbing fast. Anyone who says you need to go west to find hills hasn't driven the Cabot trail up in Cape Breton, BTW! Average mileage is 6.5 to 7 litres per 100km., or around 30 mpg in US terms. Estimated 70 percent highway driving at an average of about 90-100km/hr. Gas prices here are high, averaging $1.17 per litre of regular, so good mileage helps. One oil change done en route, oil was clean, light amber colour with no unusual consumption. No leaks or other anomalies. No evidence of any transmission hesitation, lurching or spiking as some have reported. Drive as smooth as silk so far. Asked a tech about these issues at the dealership we had the oil change done at up in North Sydney. He said there haven't been any complaints of that nature with Avalons or Camrys at their dealership, now or in the past. He really seemed genuinely puzzled why I even asked about it. We have also met a few Camry owners en route and hear the same--"what are you talking about" is a common response. We don't have Nav (maps work just fine, thanks) so I can't report any experience there. This car is just fine, and shows every indication of remaining that way. The 2000 we traded in was a great vehicle and gave us 6 years of trouble free service. This one is even better IMO, quieter, smoother, and a lot more power--you need that here because most roads are two lanes and passing slow moving motorhomes and travel trailers happens frequently. I have every reason to believe this new Avalon will give as good or better service than the previous one. If nothing else, this experience proves to me that the conditions being reported by some are evidently not typical, and perhaps even confined to a small number of affected vehicles. PLEASE, don't take this as anyway critical of those reports of problems, and definitely don't take my report as "bragging."
"If nothing else, this experience proves to me that the conditions being reported by some are evidently not typical, and perhaps even confined to a small number of affected vehicles."
I'd be willing to bet that almost all 2005/2006/2007 Avalons equiped with VSC, will have a hesitation issue. Do you have it? VSC that is.
so, it is typical with Avalons that are equiped with VSC.
Gee, that didn't take long. Yes, we have the VSC option. Absolutely NO evidence of any hesitation, and believe me, I've been paying attention!! The only options we didn't get were Nav and Laser Cruise. Didn't feel the need, and the car we picked was off the lot anyway.
I have a '05 XLS that I purchased new in April of this year with VSC. I have nearly 12K miles on it already and have had no hesitation problems (or anything else for that matter). While there are things I would change/add such as the 10 character audio display, lack of bluetooth, lack of body side moldings (haven't added them yet), etc. I am overall VERY pleased with the car. Hwy mileage is consistently 30-31 mpg.
If I had to complain about something its that I've already worn out the cushion on the drivers door armrest. Haven't brought this up w/ my dealer yet but will as it gets uncomfortable on the many long drives I take.
I feel for you guys having issues and hope you you are able to get some relief from Toyota some time soon.
I guess what I meant was, I haven't had the big 'rev up' in rpm's, like some have reported, where it can't seem to find a gear, but I do feel a little hesitation... for example, and it only happens sometimes not often, if I'm going around a corner, like an intersection, with my foot off the gas, then step on the gas, sometimes, not all times, there will be a slight 'lag' there, and it's not the majority of times.
I'm sure all Avalons equiped with VSC have this lag, maybe it's just some don't feel it as well as others might feel it. But, I'm sure there is a lag in all of them. And, all I'm saying is it shouldn't be there, or felt.
My wife 2003 cassis pearl Avalon had the hood both rh doors and the quarter panels painted, after losing a battle with a gate. Impossible to tell new from old. BTW: No tranny issues with the 4 speed wish I could say the same about my 5 speed HL. I am not buying a new Avalon or Camry because of this issue.
I'm sure all Avalons equiped with VSC have this lag, maybe it's just some don't feel it as well as others might feel it. But, I'm sure there is a lag in all of them. And, all I'm saying is it shouldn't be there, or felt.
gartmacd has made it clear that his VSC Avalon does NOT have this issue and that he has looked carefully for it. What is the evidence, beyond your personal experience, for your assertion that every VSC Avalon has the issue therefore he must simply not be noticing it?
There is no clear correlation between hesitation/lag and VSC. People without VSC have reported it too.
with no evidence other than by my own experience and what I've heard from the majority of people who own Avalons, both on this board, and other boards and people I know who own the vehicle, including the 3 in my company, then it's not all Avalons.
not all have this issue, only that the majority that I've either spoken to in person or on other boards have this issue, whether it bothers them or not, it's still an issue and whether it's the majority of all Avalons is still an issue, but that's not an excuse for being 'somewhat' ignored by Toyota concerning this issue.
and, I might add, I'm not bothered by the hesitation, I just think it shouldn't be there.
don't believe there is a link between the way the tranny is programmed to operate and VSC at least in terms of the hesitation issue. VSC does do a lot of nasty stuff when it activates (cut throttle and tranny response, apply braking etc. etc.), but I can (intentionally) get the hesitation on my non-VSC Touring. So I just don't.
"I think that is correct. Doesn't the toyota implementation have a chime or audio alert when VSC is operating to bring the vehicle under control? "
I don't believe so, or at least I've never heard it. One time in pouring rain, I know for a fact the VSC was controlling the car, and I didn't hear a chime or audio alert and either there isn't one or there is something wrong with mine, cause in that kind of weather (pouring rain), I'm usually alert with the stereo off.
The "hard-wired" throttle on my 2001 AWD RX300 seems to "dethrottle" under VSC/Trac activation quite well without DBW, as does my now "ancient" 1992 LS400 w/Trac.
But yes, there were/are multiple reasons for adopting DBW but IMMHO the MAJOR one was to prevent or alleviate those premature transaxle failures due to engine torque rising during unpredictablee, "emergency", downshifts.
In many, most cases when the VSC/Trac "chime" sounds you're a bit too pre-occupied to make note of same. But yes, my RX300 has both a chime and an indicator on the instrument panel, but both "indications" are so short you don't have time to pay attention.
Both indications should be extended beyond the "event" so the driver will have an opportunity to see what has just happened.
gartmacd has made it clear that his VSC Avalon does NOT have this issue Betcha that I could jump into his car right now and 'force' the hesitation - it is much more likely that his driving style, methods, and habits are something that the control programs can handle - the same reason why I don't regard the hesitation as problematical. I have learned how the car 'wants' to be driven! All Avalons, as well as many other Toyota/Lexus products and cars from other mfgrs., do exhibit the same type behaviors - accept it as a misapplication of technology! And it may get worse before it gets better - or we may all adjust to the point that this becomes second nature?
"Betcha that I could jump into his car right now and 'force' the hesitation - it is much more likely that his driving style, methods, and habits are something that the control programs can handle - the same reason why I don't regard the hesitation as problematical. I have learned how the car 'wants' to be driven! All Avalons, as well as many other Toyota/Lexus products and cars from other mfgrs., do exhibit the same type behaviors - accept it as a misapplication of technology! And it may get worse before it gets better - or we may all adjust to the point that this becomes second nature? "
thank you, I guess that's what I was trying to say all along.
whether that's good or bad, depends on how you feel about the hesitation or 'lag' issue....like I mentioned, it doesn't do it all the time, I'm just concerned, that when I need to be at a certain point, like merging onto an expressway from an on-ramp, in heavy fast traffic, I know what the vehicle will do. I'm not so sure that my decision to 'gun it' and expect it to be where I expect it to be, will happen because of this 'lag', whether it's because of the VSC or not, a 'lag' or a 'hesitation' is there, sometimes, and I haven't figured out if it's me driving differently, or it's actually the car doing something I'm not expecting.
so, I'm alert in those situations more than I would be in any other car.
and from the FWIW dept - a friend with a brand new Subaro Forester, 4 banger (maybe 160 hp), 5 speed sequential auto: taking his car back to the dealer to find out why there was a hitch in his gitalong when he nailed the accelerator from a near stop attempting to merge in some fast moving heavy traffic. More bothersome, perhaps, to him because there isn't as much engine there to get things moving once things do get hooked up? Sound familiar? What do you suppose the dealer will tell him?
"...What do you suppose the dealer will tell him?..."
An HONEST dealer, of which there are NONE, would tell him to get rid of his FWD or front biased AWD and buy a REAL car, RWD or front biased AWD (the new Acura SH-AWD equipped models come immediately to mind) and be rid of the dangers of FWD altogether.
"Sound familiar? What do you suppose the dealer will tell him? "
yep, the same thing Toyota tells us, 'that's the way it works.'
but, I'm sure it doesn't do that in all vehicles that are DBW. I have seen others on this forum mention Honda for instance, or Nissan, I can't remember, but I don't think or I haven't heard, or I'm not as informed as I should be, that their having the same issues..the 'lag' or 'hesitation'.
"Any repainting can be detected by a dealer when you trade your car in and will significantly lower your trade-in price"
Go ahead and get your car repaired. It certainly sounds like very minor work and I take exception to the comment that doing so will "significantly lower your trade-in price". Don't worry, get it repainted and enjoy your car. dan
there you go again, blaming all that's wrong in the world on FWD. The Forester AWD BTW, and one marque that I can think of that has been rife with transmission anomalies - MB! But, they wouldn't be all RWD and cost twice or three times what they are worth - would they? FWD has little to do with any of this - how do you explain the millions of Avalons/Camrys/ESs etc. that had perfectly fine (4 speed) trannys for the last 20 years - before all this new electronically/computer controlled stuff - an accident?
Seems to me that visible damage, such as an unrepaired dent, would be more costly in terms of a sale price than a repaired and properly repainted one. The dent is what it is. Not getting it fixed it for the sake of a sale price doesn't make sense to me. :confuse:
Thanks to all who responded to my question. I guess I will go ahead and have it repaired because it sure does ruin the looks of my car. I think I will go to the dealership where I bought the car and get an estimate from them, though. I think I would feel better if a Toyota dealership did the job - even though they told me that they subcontract their dent repair jobs out too. I have to wait until I get back from a trip, though - Airplane trip - not car.
...for all the blathering on Edmunds about dealers 'being able to detect a repaint from a mile away', it still seems better to me than EVERYONE being able to tell your car has been damaged from a mile away. People get into accidents, it's just a fact of life. Most used cars aren't perfect, but I think most would rather have one with well-repaired body work than not repaired, or one with major mechanical defects.
Betcha that I could jump into his car right now and 'force' the hesitation - it is much more likely that his driving style, methods, and habits are something that the control programs can handle I have to disagree with your contention. There are four adults on this trip. We take turns driving. None of us has experienced anything out of the ordinary with this car. Besides, as I alluded to earlier, I personally tried a variety of techniques to see if I can make this car hesitate,lurch, spike, or any other anomaly. Nada! It just goes, smoothly, consistently, and without any noticeable change under any circumstances. We're off in about 1/2 hour for the next leg of this trip, so I won't be on line until another web source come up. Hope to hear from you by then. Best take a hard look at that theory in the meantime.
I suspect you have an abnormal Avalon, since those that do hesitate are normal. To those that have such luck, do you stop to think, we that have a "normal" Avalon, have nothing to gain by spending our time enroute/at the dealership.Each time I carry mine in for REPAIR it takes me 30 minutes to type up the quirky symptoms...go figure.
There is no need to try to tell someone into that his Avalon behaves differently, or will behave differently if one of you drives it, than he reports. There is also no need for sarcasm.
Gartmacd is happy with his car. Some of you are not happy with yours. That's terrible, really, but you don't need to tell people who are happy that they are wrong about their car's behavior.
I have a 2005 Avalon (Limited) as well and have not experienced the transmission issues. The car runs smooth so far and is quiet as a library at highway speeds. I tried to make it exhibit the conditions described by adjusting how rapid I apply and release my foot to the pedal, and no dice. All who are experiencing this problem should challenge your dealer.
exactly. the people with a problem that are being told it's normal are not being dealt with honestly nor with the customer-centricity they deserve.
the reports of others like yourself indicating no issue (and you are trying all sorts of stuff to create it) has to be both comforting and disconcerting to those with the issue.
on the one hand it legitimizes their belief the company can build a good car, and the car they purchased should not hesitate.
on the other hand, no one should be telling them it's normal, or they all do that.
user777: Well, I just got another unbiased testiment to the Avy's transmission woes. Son & family visited last week from Ft Worth and he had to take dad's new car as they were going shopping. I never mentioned anything about the quirky transmission--just wanted to see if he said anything when he came back. Guess what he said about the Avy? You got a "slipping" tranny----I said what--he said yea--I slowed down at the bottom of the hill, checked for traffic and when I started to go--all I got was a revving engine and then a sudden lurch. He said samething happened again twice more that day. I played dumb and told him that the next day we'd go together, him driving and see if it happened again. Sure enough--same thing--just like it happens to me if I don't use the "manual" mode---I told him Toyota says this is NORMAL----BS was his reply---he drives a Maxima--he said if that Avy was my car--the dealer would have it back and fix it, get me one that works properly or keep it and give me my $$$ back. BTW--he was the one he steered me toward the Avalon! I told him about the Forum write-ups on the transmission and he said it certainly could be a safety issue. I told him I use manual in the situations where I know or anm fairly sure "Murphy" will rise up and strike again! His response---why didn't ya buy a 5 or 6 speed tranny if ya wanted to shift--ya bought an automatic--it should work automatically!! Duh?!! Bob
yeah - exactly. good test. put someone else in the vehicle that has no history and watch them quickly come to the conclusion something fundamentally is amiss.
this is one of the reasons you'd never ever have a vehicle with this sort of designed in "natural" behavior in the hands of many - ala rental fleet etc.
your son's assessment is on target. your vehicle is NOT operating as designed.
plenty of other manufacturers have DBW technology, and they do not do this.
there is something wrong with your vehicle.
either the manufacturer is gonna stand behind their product and fix it, or you should move on and get rid of it.
as they say, you have a lot riding on it, and you and your family deserve far far better.
Suggest Toyota buy back Gartmacd's Avy and disassemble the tranny & DBW system to find out why it works right! One pill I find tough to swallow is that I when I bought my 05 Ltd, it had 280 hp on window sticker and that was a factor in purchasing this vehicle. Now BTW, Toyota says it's really 268! This is definitely a mis-calculation by Toyota no matter how they try to rationalize it and it falls under the category as false advertising to the consumer.
As previously discussed in this forum, the engine has the HP rating Toyota was allowed to give it under the rules. But the rules changed. And the HP number dropped for Toyota and several other makes. It was not a error by Toyota.
Comments
To a programmer, or say an engineer writing the specification for the engine/transaxle ECU firmware, lifting the accelerator abruptly and all the way would/might "imply" a wish to coastdown to a lower speed. In that circumstance remaining in the current gear would seem most appropriate. The above sequence may even be used to set the stage for a downshift if subsequently the brakes are applied.
On the other hand if you simply "feathered" the pedal to a shallower position that, seemingly, would/might imply a wish to enter cruising "mode", and an upshift would likely be more appropriate.
Back in the fifties when automatics first began to appear we soon learned that if we wished the transmission (no transaxles back then) to upshift sooner all we had to do was slightly lift the accelerator pedal momentarily.
So those of you experiencing this problem might want to practice completely closing the throttle until, if, you subsequently reach the point/decision, to accelerate.
Keep in mind that applying your foot higher on the pedal, which seems to have helped in some cases, would require more force and therefore lifting the pedal would likely both be more "abrupt" and a shorter travel distance.
Just guessing, again.
why don't we have a Toyota rep in this forum? I mean, did the Toyota rep just stumble upon that forum and joined? I think not.
I mean we payed some good money for our Avalon's, why don't we have the same access to that Toyota rep the 07 Camry's have? And, why are they sorta ignoring our problem with the transmissions, but not ignoring the 07 Camry's problems?
The Avalon 5 speed - no mechanical failures TMK although certainly a number of folks out there that don't like the way it operates.
As far as the tranny behavior is concerned, I really believe that there is either nothing that can be done about it or Toyota hasn't figured out a way to tame these essentially electronic gremlins. As far as VSC and TRAC go, you need to understand that these 'safety' features do - stop you from doing something that IT doesn't 'think' you should!
I own an 05 Touring and have driven it 33000 miles to this point, and yep - it is the most powerful, economical, and comfortable car I've ever owned. No plans to trade it in, drive too many miles for a lease, so therefore will likely keep it until the wheels fall off. And no, my transmission has NOT been what I would call any sort of problem - perhaps because of the way I 'learned' to drive it.
The 07 models are apparently continuing with little change including the 5 speed. My point - if more is better, buy the (otherwise well designed) Five Hundred 6 speed then you can have not only a transmission that doesn't know what gear to be in but a car that is too slow to boot. You'll save some money - at least initially.
But there has been progress, of a sorts.
Toyota went to DBW to try to solve the problem.
Toyota went to DBW to try to solve the problem"
Could you explain further? Isn't my 2006 XLS Avalon with VSC 'drive by wire'?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Again, so far so good. Total 7400 kms (approx 4000 miles) to date and climbing fast. Anyone who says you need to go west to find hills hasn't driven the Cabot trail up in Cape Breton, BTW! Average mileage is 6.5 to 7 litres per 100km., or around 30 mpg in US terms. Estimated 70 percent highway driving at an average of about 90-100km/hr. Gas prices here are high, averaging $1.17 per litre of regular, so good mileage helps.
One oil change done en route, oil was clean, light amber colour with no unusual consumption. No leaks or other anomalies.
No evidence of any transmission hesitation, lurching or spiking as some have reported. Drive as smooth as silk so far. Asked a tech about these issues at the dealership we had the oil change done at up in North Sydney. He said there haven't been any complaints of that nature with Avalons or Camrys at their dealership, now or in the past. He really seemed genuinely puzzled why I even asked about it. We have also met a few Camry owners en route and hear the same--"what are you talking about" is a common response.
We don't have Nav (maps work just fine, thanks) so I can't report any experience there.
This car is just fine, and shows every indication of remaining that way. The 2000 we traded in was a great vehicle and gave us 6 years of trouble free service. This one is even better IMO, quieter, smoother, and a lot more power--you need that here because most roads are two lanes and passing slow moving motorhomes and travel trailers happens frequently. I have every reason to believe this new Avalon will give as good or better service than the previous one.
If nothing else, this experience proves to me that the conditions being reported by some are evidently not typical, and perhaps even confined to a small number of affected vehicles.
PLEASE, don't take this as anyway critical of those reports of problems, and definitely don't take my report as "bragging."
"If nothing else, this experience proves to me that the conditions being reported by some are evidently not typical, and perhaps even confined to a small number of affected vehicles."
I'd be willing to bet that almost all 2005/2006/2007 Avalons equiped with VSC, will have a hesitation issue. Do you have it? VSC that is.
so, it is typical with Avalons that are equiped with VSC.
If I had to complain about something its that I've already worn out the cushion on the drivers door armrest. Haven't brought this up w/ my dealer yet but will as it gets uncomfortable on the many long drives I take.
I feel for you guys having issues and hope you you are able to get some relief from Toyota some time soon.
I'm sure all Avalons equiped with VSC have this lag, maybe it's just some don't feel it as well as others might feel it. But, I'm sure there is a lag in all of them. And, all I'm saying is it shouldn't be there, or felt.
but, I do enjoy your reports.
BTW: No tranny issues with the 4 speed wish I could say the same about my 5 speed HL. I am not buying a new Avalon or Camry because of this issue.
gartmacd has made it clear that his VSC Avalon does NOT have this issue and that he has looked carefully for it. What is the evidence, beyond your personal experience, for your assertion that every VSC Avalon has the issue therefore he must simply not be noticing it?
There is no clear correlation between hesitation/lag and VSC. People without VSC have reported it too.
with no evidence other than by my own experience and what I've heard from the majority of people who own Avalons, both on this board, and other boards and people I know who own the vehicle, including the 3 in my company, then it's not all Avalons.
not all have this issue, only that the majority that I've either spoken to in person or on other boards have this issue, whether it bothers them or not, it's still an issue and whether it's the majority of all Avalons is still an issue, but that's not an excuse for being 'somewhat' ignored by Toyota concerning this issue.
and, I might add, I'm not bothered by the hesitation, I just think it shouldn't be there.
I think that is correct. Doesn't the toyota implementation have a chime or audio alert when VSC is operating to bring the vehicle under control?
I don't believe so, or at least I've never heard it. One time in pouring rain, I know for a fact the VSC was controlling the car, and I didn't hear a chime or audio alert and either there isn't one or there is something wrong with mine, cause in that kind of weather (pouring rain), I'm usually alert with the stereo off.
But yes, there were/are multiple reasons for adopting DBW but IMMHO the MAJOR one was to prevent or alleviate those premature transaxle failures due to engine torque rising during unpredictablee, "emergency", downshifts.
Both indications should be extended beyond the "event" so the driver will have an opportunity to see what has just happened.
Betcha that I could jump into his car right now and 'force' the hesitation - it is much more likely that his driving style, methods, and habits are something that the control programs can handle - the same reason why I don't regard the hesitation as problematical. I have learned how the car 'wants' to be driven! All Avalons, as well as many other Toyota/Lexus products and cars from other mfgrs., do exhibit the same type behaviors - accept it as a misapplication of technology! And it may get worse before it gets better - or we may all adjust to the point that this becomes second nature?
thank you, I guess that's what I was trying to say all along.
whether that's good or bad, depends on how you feel about the hesitation or 'lag' issue....like I mentioned, it doesn't do it all the time, I'm just concerned, that when I need to be at a certain point, like merging onto an expressway from an on-ramp, in heavy fast traffic, I know what the vehicle will do. I'm not so sure that my decision to 'gun it' and expect it to be where I expect it to be, will happen because of this 'lag', whether it's because of the VSC or not, a 'lag' or a 'hesitation' is there, sometimes, and I haven't figured out if it's me driving differently, or it's actually the car doing something I'm not expecting.
so, I'm alert in those situations more than I would be in any other car.
Sound familiar? What do you suppose the dealer will tell him?
An HONEST dealer, of which there are NONE, would tell him to get rid of his FWD or front biased AWD and buy a REAL car, RWD or front biased AWD (the new Acura SH-AWD equipped models come immediately to mind) and be rid of the dangers of FWD altogether.
yep, the same thing Toyota tells us, 'that's the way it works.'
but, I'm sure it doesn't do that in all vehicles that are DBW. I have seen others on this forum mention Honda for instance, or Nissan, I can't remember, but I don't think or I haven't heard, or I'm not as informed as I should be, that their having the same issues..the 'lag' or 'hesitation'.
Go ahead and get your car repaired. It certainly sounds like very minor work and I take exception to the comment that doing so will "significantly lower your trade-in price". Don't worry, get it repainted and enjoy your car. dan
I like to trade cars every 3 or 4 years.
I have to disagree with your contention. There are four adults on this trip. We take turns driving. None of us has experienced anything out of the ordinary with this car.
Besides, as I alluded to earlier, I personally tried a variety of techniques to see if I can make this car hesitate,lurch, spike, or any other anomaly. Nada! It just goes, smoothly, consistently, and without any noticeable change under any circumstances.
We're off in about 1/2 hour for the next leg of this trip, so I won't be on line until another web source come up. Hope to hear from you by then. Best take a hard look at that theory in the meantime.
Cj
Gartmacd is happy with his car. Some of you are not happy with yours. That's terrible, really, but you don't need to tell people who are happy that they are wrong about their car's behavior.
Let it go.
the reports of others like yourself indicating no issue (and you are trying all sorts of stuff to create it) has to be both comforting and disconcerting to those with the issue.
on the one hand it legitimizes their belief the company can build a good car, and the car they purchased should not hesitate.
on the other hand, no one should be telling them it's normal, or they all do that.
that isn't true.
Bob
this is one of the reasons you'd never ever have a vehicle with this sort of designed in "natural" behavior in the hands of many - ala rental fleet etc.
your son's assessment is on target. your vehicle is NOT operating as designed.
plenty of other manufacturers have DBW technology, and they do not do this.
there is something wrong with your vehicle.
either the manufacturer is gonna stand behind their product and fix it, or you should move on and get rid of it.
as they say, you have a lot riding on it, and you and your family deserve far far better.
One pill I find tough to swallow is that I when I bought my 05 Ltd, it had 280 hp on window sticker and that was a factor in purchasing this vehicle. Now BTW, Toyota says it's really 268! This is definitely a mis-calculation by Toyota no matter how they try to rationalize it and it falls under the category as false advertising to the consumer.