I agree that the ranger is overall much safer in all configurations then a Tacoma and ford should be commended for that, however I don't drive the tacoma they tested nor would I recomend a vehicle that unsafe. You are correct this is a ranger vs tacoma board and all configurations should be compared, and the stock 2wd configuration is not safe. I drive a 4wd TRD that for all practical purposes is a 4runner without the extra seats, agreed, if you dont think so, look at the two, and minus the grille and bumper, they are identical from the front doors forward, same interior, same gauges, same frame, same everything. The 4runner tests I pointed to were of a 4wd 4runner with 265-75's, aka 31" tires like I have. I am confident (outside of running the test myself) that a truck configured like a 4 runner would score as well as a 4runner. I can't imagine Toyota putting some sort of special door beams in a 4runner and not a tacoma, because they share so many parts.
This being said I do value my own life, and to quote you what is "germaine" to the safety of me, my family, and all the other things you mentioned, is the specific truck I am driving, and I am confident we are as safe as possible.
I recently got a 2000 Taco and I'm happy with it. It's a decent vehicle, even if it's overpriced. I tested the Ranger and liked it, but the dealers were all saying things like "well, you'll be getting a new car in five years", and that made me wonder, "is this going to break on me?" I was intending to keep it until it died, which I hoped was at least ten years away. So I got the Taco. I know so many people with old Toyotas that run okay, so longevity is a given with the Taco.
If you're going to get rid of the truck in five years, I'd say get the Ranger. It's cheaper, and I think it's a nicer truck.
I'm not an off roader. I just needed wheels that could haul stuff.
Cpousnr, Seems I didn't jump on you yet about crawl ratio. Then again how often do I talk about crawl ratio? It is a Spoog topic so I will let the expert talk
yes the 4x2 Tacoma is lower and more vulnerable to CAR collisions... but with More and more trucks and SUV's on the market the height point is not rellevent.. the lack of side impact door beams is the reason for the low score... and the 4 runner probably has them since it is marketed as a family car these days..
Daniel are you mad?? To claim the Toyota Tacoma a better offroad vehicle than Jeep?? You better get a reading my boy. The Jeep is king as far as a true rock climber, snorkler, trailer would know. Are you aware of what you can buy on a Jeep as far as offroad packages?? The short wheel base and weight distrubution are just two traits that make the Jeep king. Go visit a Jeep 4x4 room and make that claim, you will get stomped. I own a Ranger and have already gone up against a TRD. Not impressed. I could do anything, go anywhere, climb, trail anything he could. The locker is only good under 5mph. Enjoy the sticker!
"Daniel are you mad?? To claim the Toyota Tacoma a better offroad vehicle than Jeep?? You better get a reading my boy. The Jeep is king as far as a true rock climber, snorkler, trailer would know. Are you aware of what you can buy on a Jeep as far as offroad packages?? "
Factory or aftermarket?
Ohh...also Vince.....do you know what official vehicle is used as emergency pullout and backup vehicles at the Jeep Jamboress and long trail runs? Thats Right, Toyota Pickups, and ONLY toyota pickups.
" The short wheel base and weight distrubution are just two traits that make the Jeep king. Go visit a Jeep 4x4 room and make that claim, you will get stomped."
Not really. The Jeep 4x4 room inhabitants are smart enough to know that the toyota pickups are tough, tough offroaders. They wont snicker at a mention of a Tacoma vs Jeep challenge, but they would downright laugh at a Ranger vs Jeep challenge.
"I own a Ranger and have already gone up against a TRD. Not impressed. I could do anything, go anywhere, climb, trail anything he could. The locker is only good under 5mph. "
lol. Nice try vince. With your weak gearing, poor crawl ratio, lack of horsepower at the higher elevations, lower max rear wheel torque, lower clearance, nill skid plates, nil locker, nil tuned suspension, nill shocks, poor departure and approach angles, no clutch start cancel, ect....you could hardly keep up, let alone complete what a 4x4 TRD could.
"Enjoy the sticker!"
You mean the Ranger "offroad" sticker? THe one that comes with nothing?
See, as long as you put your "Enjoy the sticker!" comment at the end, then we all see it. I guess it's kind of like a trademark, huh (like "Ford tough" - lol)?
Toyotas have long been renowned for their offroad abilities. While I would not say they are better offroad than Jeeps (pretty close, though - Wrangler and TRD close, Cherokee and JGC better than 4Runner, LC best full-size SUV offroad, Jeep doesn't make anything comparable). What Jeep does not have is the Toyota quality, fit and finish, and long-term reliability, but Jeep is getting better there, too. Toyota, Jeep and Land Rover are always the top off-road picks of the 4 wheeling magazines. Ford never is.
with furthur research... the tacoma does have side impact door beams... dunno why the side impact rating is so low..... must be that weak japanees steel LOL JK JK JK...
I posted a similar post in another forum and figured I would try here also. I'm in the market to purchase a new truck, but with a limited budget, after all, I'm only an artist. I have been looking at reg cabs 4x4 rangers and toyotas. Heres the question for any who have owned or driven either the 3.0L ford engine or the 2.7L toyota engine. Quite simple, which is better for light hauling and occasional 4x4. I will be using the truck to haul my sculptures and materials along with mountain bikes. As you can see, the load will be very light. When I mention 4x4, i don't mean through 11,000 feet mountain passes with ten feet of snow on the ground, I mean winter snow storms in the midwest. I wish I could afford either the v-6 toyota or the 4.0L ford. My pocket book just isn't that large. Thanks for any info.
that's why I bought a Toyota, too. No, they're not the BEST offroaders out there, but they're pretty darn close and no other company can offer the combination of off-road ability and overall reliability.
You guys post so damn fast. Do you work? Yeah that 24K TRD with the 5mph limit on its locker?? The locker that disengages and goes to an open axle that is? You crack me up spoog. I know I went up against a TRD, I wanted to and my friend wanted me to also. He wanted to just stomp me, as he put it. Well, to his surprise, he couldn't. Enjoy your overrrated, overpriced, open axle, worst crash test compact tiny truck. Please, A TRD vs what Jeep has to offer. You guys are really pushing it. Jeep offers a locker that DOESN'T disengage@! and a locker for both axles at that. Along with an inline 6! Once again you guys have way too much confidence in your overrated Tacoma. The limited slip on the RAnger is ALWAYS available. This is better than an open axle and you know it. Its like me trying to say limited slip is better than a locker, I know better, its not. Rangers are king and you guys hate it. Sales numbes show it, consumer has spoken for the last 12 years with no end in site. Sales do matter, consumers make the choice. The Ranger is the best overall compact truck on the market today. See you in the hills. Even though I don't see many Tacoma's where I go. I guess they are too afraid to dent them or scratch them. And yes, Enjoy your 24K sticker!
You ignored almost my entire post (191). As well as what I said about Jeep vs. Toyota. I never said Toyotas were better. I said they were close and were more reliable. I don't think anyone will dispute that. When was the last time a Ford was voted Off-Roader/4Wheeler/4x4 of the year? I don't have any facts, but I'll bet NEVER. That title is reserved for Land Rovers, Jeeps, and, yes, Toyotas.
Also, I could be wrong (cliffy, let me know), but I don't think the TRD locker disengages above 5 mph, you just shouldn't go faster than that with it engaged. The thing that amuses me is that you trash the TRD locker and then go on to say a locker is better than LSD. Multiple personalities?
Inline 6 vs V6 - From Edmunds, Jeep I-6 has 181hp @ 4600 rpm, 222 ft lb @ 2800 rpm. TRD V6 has 190 hp @ 4800 rpm, 220 ft lb @ 3600. You've been arguing all along that your Ranger is so close to the Tacoma that is is a wash, but then you turn around and say how much stronger the Jeep engines are when they are very close. At least be consistent with your statements!
As far as taking a 24K TRD offroad, two things: First, people do take them up there, that is why many buy them. Second, I have seen more Tacomas on rough terrain (not just mud and hills) than Ranger. Explain that (remember, as you say, the Ranger outsells the Tacoma 4 to 1. Therefore, I would expect to see many more Rangers than Tacomas, but that is far from the truth, at least in my experience).
BTW - maybe your friend just doesn't know how to drive offroad and that's why you didn't get "stomped"
Where are you from?? In Summit couty colorado (just east of vail), with all its high mountain passes (12,000 ft variety). I see easily more than 4 rangers to every 1 tacoma offroad.. there are quite a few tacomas up here but most i see are in the parking lots, mostly denver residents i suppose. Offroading outside of Montezuma (10,000'+) this is what you see... Old school broncos, Hummers, Jeeps, and a few rangers, and only one Tacoma in that time.. Granted this is colorado and ppl here tend to buy american but not everywhere can be California..
"They are changing the world out there in California" -J.M.
"Jeep offers a locker thatDOESN'T disengage@! and a locker for both axles at that. Along with an inline 6! Once again you guys have way too much confidence in your overratedTacoma. "
Wrong Vinnie. WRONG. Limited slip viscous couplings are NOT lockers.
And if Jeep offered a locker that didnt disengage, no one would ever be able to trun their vehicle.
Also, please show me wher ethey offer a true locker at both axels?
The last vehicle to offer that stock was the Toyota landcruiser, offering locking rear, center, and front differentials, back in 98.
Nice one Vince. YOu need to realize that limited slip is worthless for offroading. Its good for wet paved roads, 2 wheel drive trucks and passenger cars. Oh by the way......truck companies have yet to find a limited slip in a 4x4 that lasts over 90 k miles.........
I believe Vince was talking about the inherent superiority of a straight 6 over a V6. A V6 has both 1st and 2nd order imbalances. The engine will usually have balance shafts and other changes to subdue these damaging vibrations. An I6 is one of only 2 engines that is naturally balanced, the other being a V12. By the way, a V8 has 1st order imbalance while an I4 has both 1st and 2nd. I can't remember what boxers, either 4 or 6 cylinders, have.
MMC fails to mention weight comparisons on the Jeep along with how Jeep balances the weight ratio. I can't believe all you guys who own Tacoma's and claim to be avid offroaders can say a Tacoma is "close to a Jeep" in offroad manners?? Tells me alot about what you know about Jeep and its history along with what they offer today. Your over confidence will catch up with you someday. Even as much as I like my Ranger and am confident in its abilities I would not step out on a limb and claim to be close to a Jeep in offroad ability. I have NEVER seen a Tacoma rock climb, ever. Wonder why??? Yet, I see Jeeps, Jeeps everywhere doing rock climbing and snorkling. Jeep is the choice vehicle for avid, and hardcore offroaders. I suppose now your going to tell me there aren't any aftermarket parts for Jeep, right spoog? Spoog, you are the one who opts to go over objects in your path? and you are trying to lecture me on offroad driving?? I am well aware of the difference between a locker and limited slip axle. All you Tacoma guys like to downplay the limited slip, while hyping up the locker that is limited to 5mph? At least I admit a locker is better than limited slip in certain situations. Most TRD owners will not use the locker in the way its supposed to be used. Its a sales gimmick, no doubt. As you all know I live in Oregon and visit the mountains and deserts quite often. I see a Toyota once in a great while. I mostly see Jeeps, Chevys, and Fords. I can even say I see more Dodge Dakota's than I see Tacoma's! You know, I am getting burned out here. It seems to be the same thing over and over again. I fold, I have had enough. I will visit from time to time and put my .02$ worth in now an then. Someone had asked about the new V6 for the Ranger. It is going to be a single overhead cam 4.0 with 204HP and 240ft/lbs of torque. Last I read it should arrive sometime in Fall of 2000. See you in the hills! And yes, MMC enjoy the sticker!
"MMC fails to mention weight comparisons on the Jeep along with how Jeep balances the weight ratio. I can't believe all you guys who own Tacoma's and claim to be avid offroaders can say a Tacoma is "close to a Jeep" in offroad manners"
Sure I will. A stock tacoma TRD regular cab with a locker will be a good match for a factory WRANGLER.
Theres no doubt in my mind that the Tacoma TRD is a better offroader than the Jeep Cherokee and Grand CHerokees.
A wrangler with a lift, and a locker pushes past a tacoma stock TRD.
The reason why the Jeep is such a great offroader is its approach and departure angles, clearance as good as the Tacoma, and wheel articulation, and its short wheelbase.
You crack me up! You complain about useless bickering and people saying the same thing over and over again with no proof to back up their statements. You are by far one of the worse offenders of these things, in this conference. How many "Enjoy the sticker" comments have we heard. Or "Spoog is a kid" or "He deoesn't own a TRD". We heard it over and over again. You could learn a little from CP. He researches his statements and doesn't post endlessly about his OPINIONS, like you do. Spoog may be harsh sometimes, and i'll admint he posted the recalls alot (As important as i think they are) but at least he backs up his statements. I am sorry to hear your leaving the post. You do keep things alive and definatly keep me laughing, but when you do return, remeber just because you think it is true doesn't make it FACT. Case in Point: "There are more rangers on the road, so it must be the best truck" If everybody jumped off a bridge, does that make it the best idea?
I have never driven one but I would definately be interested in it.
vince8---I maybe wrong but I dont see why you would need to go over 5mph with locker on. If it is used for crawling on rocks, etc. I wouldnt want to go over 5mph anyway.
Is this enough awards for Ford? Saw a FEW toyotas in my search.
sredman1: I agree with you in regard to seeing vehicles in Colo four wheeling. I have only seen Tacoma TRD's towing ATV trailers, never seen one on 4X mountain passes yet. Guess I have not been out there when they are 4 wheeling. My excursions are limited to Jefferson, Custer, Fremont, Saguache and Huerfano couties so far. . . Still lookin. . .
See, Vince, that's what happens when you make statements without the data to back them up. You get your hat handed to you. My point (in a nutshell) is that Ford makes trucks that are very good on road first, and trail-worthiness second. Toyota (IMO) is willing to sacrifice some on-road ride for off-road capabilities, which would make the Ford the better choice on-road and the Toyota better off-road (stock to stock, of course).
Vince- OK, according to Edmunds, a TAcoma weighs about 200lb more than a Wrangler. That's not a big deal. And when I was saying a TRD was close to a Wrangler, I meant stock to stock. How many STOCK Jeeps have you seen snorkeling and rock crawling (probaly none as a snorkel is an aftermarket part, and I doubt someone would put just a snorkel on their rigs, and no other mods, and you need much larger than stock tires to do some true rock crawling-probably 33's or 35's, stock for Wrangler are 30"). I will concede that a stock TRD could never in a million years keep up with an off-road modded Jeep. Not much out there could, even with mods of their own. I like Jeeps. I had a CJ7 for 5 years and sold it for more than I paid for it (wish I still had it). But stock vs. stock, a Wrangler would not blow away a TRD. Just like a TRD will not blow away a Ranger. Jeep is a little better than TRD (just like I said) and TRD is a little better than RAnger (just like I said). I hope you come back. I have enjoyed sparring with you. It's not personal and its not a fight. We're just discussing different views.
It is a FACT that the TRD package offers MORE then then Ranger's "Off-Road Package."
TRD Offroad Package (4WD X-Cab Except Limited) Includes off-road suspension, aluminum wheels, wheel arch moldings, tires: 31X10.5R15, black overfenders, rear differential lock, tachometer and badging.
The Ranger's Off-Road Package includes:
Off-Road Package (XLT 4WD) Includes bulge body shocks, styled manual mirrors and off-road Decal.
Do you see how silly your "Enjoy the sticker"comment is? I don't care which truck you prefer, but the TRD is a LOT more then a "Sticker."
For me, the Ranger vs. Tacoma thing is a wash. Each serves a different purpose for different buyers and I don't think either one is "better" then the other.
I WOULD like to see Toyota offer a LS Diff. in the Tacoma, I think it is best suited to the day-to-day street driving that the majority of truck owners do.
Well I am definitely glad to see Vince go. Actually I have to agree with Wsnoble in post #238 in his assessment of Vince. However, I would add in the fact that even when he is incorrect in his statements he will not correct or make an omission that he was in error.
Cpousnr, Looking forward to watching Army sink Navy this weekend.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/rtests.html 96 F-150 Extended Cab: 1/96, * # if you follow the codes, # means Four wheeler of the Year. there are two listings for Toyota for Four Wheeler of the year and it is the 1996 Tacoma and the 1996 T100(and we know what happened to the T100)
Now granted, not a Ranger but the question was FORD.
I will not disagree with sproin(is that spoog spelled differently) and have previously commented that what is offered in the TuRD package is a good value for what you get, if you want all that stuff. As I stated before, the shocks offered are, in the opinion of 2 4Wheel places I am dealing with, overkill for even my Ranger, and it is heavier than the Tacoma. I will choose the Rancho RS9000 5 way adjustable shock when I replace mine. Set it at 2-3 for the road and 4-5 for when 4 wheelin.
mmcbride and spoog too if your on you medicine and won't comment about no Rangers in the pic:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/rtests.html 96 F-150 Extended Cab: 1/96, * # if you follow the codes, # means Four wheeler of the Year. there are two listings for Toyota for Four Wheeler of the year and it is the 1996 Tacoma and the 1996 T100(and we know what happened to the T100)
Now granted, not a Ranger but the question was FORD.
I will not disagree with sproin(is that spoog spelled differently) and have previously commented that what is offered in the TuRD package is a good value for what you get, if you want all that stuff. As I stated before, the shocks offered are, in the opinion of 2 4Wheel places I am dealing with, overkill for even my Ranger, and it is heavier than the Tacoma. I will choose the Rancho RS9000 5 way adjustable shock when I replace mine. Set it at 2-3 for the road and 4-5 for when 4 wheelin.
mmcbride and spoog too if your on you medicine and won't comment about no Rangers in the pic:
This is a question for the folks with a spray in liner. I currently have an under the rail factory liner and have considered getting a spray in. My factory has notches in it to accommadate 2x6's so i can keep my winter weight on top of the axle. What does the spray in offer as an alternative to this, or does it have some sort of slots as well?
Thanks -wsn
PS Any comments on what else makes it better would be appreciated
If you post about the ranger's off-road pkg, you should actually do the research about it. You happened to have forgotten a few things:
-larger 16" off-road tires -fuel tank skid plate -transfer case skid plate -stainless steel front suspension skid plate -4.10 axle ratio -larger (P235) 15" spare tire
These are in addition to what you stated the pkg as having:
-buldge body shocks -styled manual mirrors -off-road decal
All of this costs you $336 (dealer invoice).
For the TRD off-road package, you get:
-bilstein shocks & stiffer springs -front stabilizer bar -alloy wheels -31" tires on 15" rims -wheel arch molding -rear locker -4.30 axle ratio -tachometer -TRD badging
This will cost you $1,337 (dealer invoice).
Now, the Ranger 4x4 comes standard with the tach, alloy wheels, and fender flares. The off-road package adds an off-road tuned suspension (taco is a little better off-road, but ranger is better on-road, so I'd net them about equal) and better axle ratio. What you've pretty much got left is a locker and front stabilizer bar. So, these two items cost you about a $1,000 when compared to the Ranger's off-road pkg.
The LSD for the Ranger will cost you another $250. I'd personally prefer the LSD to the locker, as about 95% of my driving is done on the road, so the LSD is always there to help out when needed. If I needed a locker and did some serious 4-wheeling, it would be on an old CJ. I'm not going to take a 20K+ truck (either ranger or taco) into some serious s&*! as rock climbing, etc...
Well, we finally come to a stabilizer bar for $750 when you take into account standard equipment, off-road pkg & TRD pkg options, and other optional equipment.
You're right. The TRD does offer more in terms of QUANTITY of options, but I don't believe that offers more in terms of VALUE of options.
In any case, it all comes down to personal preference. I realize that neither magazine articles or sales figures will tell me which truck is the best for me. I've already got that figured out: '98 Ranger 4x4 4.0L V6 5sp-auto off-road pkg, open differential, every power goodie for $18,500. It still books at $17,000 after a year and a half and 15K problem-free miles.
for the 4 speed Toyota transmission and you will not like its crawl ratio. The ratios are as compared to Ranger automatic: Toyota 1st 2.80:1, 2nd 1.53:1, 3rd 1.0:1 xfercase 2.57:1 Ranger 1st 2.47:1, 2nd 1.85:1, 3rd 1.47:1 xfercase2.48:1
Crawl ratio of Tacoma 4sp automatic with 4.1 rear end is: 2.80 X 2.57 X 4.1 = 29.55
Not anywhere near the 40:1 ratio of the Tacoma manual. To state it further, an auto equipped Tacoma 4X4 will have a crawl ratio far worse than my Ranger 5 speed manual vehicle. HOWEVER, it, the auto Tacoma, would certainly be able to go on the 4 wheel drive trails I go on. Just like my Ranger can traverse the trails a Tacoma goes on.
My POINT is that when you compare an automatic vs a manual 4 wheel drive, the automatic WILL be at a disadvantage. A FAIRER test would have put an aut vs an auto or a manual vs a manual.
Which is better?
THE ONE THAT FITS AN INDIVIDUAL'S NEEDS AND POCKETBOOK! Because your getting real SUBJECTIVE when that question is asked.
By the way, I just installed my rear tow hooks on my Ranger. I really do not think it now makes my truck superior to yours but it is kinda kewl seeing the chrome hooks hangin down on the rear frame.
Well the Ranger box has indentations for just what you describe
(Oh oh! did I just find a hidden, up to now un-identifed feature on the Ranger that the Tacoma does not have?)
and my liner contours it very well. You lay 2X6 wood in there to allow for hauling 4X8 sheets of stuff without breaking it due to wheel wells. I would GUESS, but do not know, they should be able to build in little indentations in the liner.
Also, if you do it, go over the rails. I did not and regret it as it is 125 bucks to add over the rails.
What yr ranger do you have? My '98 came with front and rear tow hooks as standard equipment. The rear one got yoinked when I put on my Reese tow hitch, though. No biggie, the hitch will easily serve the same purpose should it ever be needed.
actually it's been so long since i had the liner out they may be there too. It was just easier to ask ahead of time. I have a Torneau cover and wonder how an over the rail would affect it?
I've been reading all these boards. I have never owned a truck, but I am now in the final decision-making process for buying one, and I have already decided that it will be a 2000 Tacoma 4wd, 6 cyl.
After reading the posts, I wonder if someone could help me understand some terminology. For example, what is a "locker" (in reference to args between lockers and slips)?
How is the center of gravity on the 4wd Tacomas when cornering? Under normal street wear-and-tear and maybe 100hrs/year of mild off-road activity, how well can I expect all that 4wd gear under there to hold up? Is it pricey to replace when damaged?
As you can see, I'm not a truck nut (yet)...I'm just a computer engineer looking for some advice from what I believe to be the best source of information -- the owners of such vehicles -- before the salesmen get ahold of me!!
:-) Relax! You seem to be insinuating that I intentionally misrepresented things, or perhaps, am just dumb, quite to the contrary. :-) I cut and pasted my info directly from Edmunds, so I felt I HAD done the research (apparently Edmunds hasn't.) I have stated more then once, that I think the Ranger is the better value, so no ignorance or malice was intended, I'm on your side.)
It is just that I think that Vince's constant "Enjoy the sticker" is so OFF-BASE, that I wanted to post to the contrary, just to try and be fair. Again, thanks for the correction and the correct information.
CPousner, Please don't confuse me (S-P-O-R-I-N) with SPOOG. thanks :-)
A locker is a device that locks the differential such that both wheels get equal power. When you go hit a slick spot or somehow loose traction you will notice that one of your wheels will spin freely. This is the case with an open differential. (Most Common). A limited slip differential fall inbetween the two. While you would not would never leave a locker ingaged on dry pavement a limited slip is always active. The Tacoma with TRD package comes witha locker but otherwise is open. The Ranger does not offer a locker but does offer LSD (not the hallucinogen).
I just purchase a Tacoma TRD and by my standards it corners and handles well. I had an older Toyota so I feel that the TRD's stiffer suspension provides much better all around handling. Some reviews say that the Tacoma does not handle well on the road but I think these guys spend most of there time test driving BMW's, Lexus' and so on.
The Ranger is a great truck also. My friend had one untill it was totalled a few weeks ago and she loved it. Test drive as many makes as you can and make up your mind, dont let anyone on this dscussion make you think there is a clear cut best choice.
P.S. I put my older Pick-Up through hell. I would not worry about the equipment under the truck too much. The ground clearances of both of these trucks are more then adequate to handle off road activity.
"Now granted, not a Ranger but the question wasFORD."
Lets not get into this shall we? Your beloved Consumer reports just picked the Tundra as the only full size pickup it reccomends, even in its first year.
Also, It doesnt suprise me that a ful lsize ford won 4wheeelr of the year. Look at its competition, Cevhy ands Dodge full sizes lol.
sporin: I didn't intend any malice. It just sounded something like spooge's off-road pkg = sticker comments. I didn't confuse you for him either. You based your argument on fact (albeit Edmunds' info was incomplete), not on a two year old magazine article. I do agree that vince's "enjoy your sticker" can be a bit grating. I, a ranger owner, even cringe when I read it now. But, he does have a point. The taco is three or so grand overpriced. If they could do something about that, the interior ergonomics, and vehicle safety, the Ranger's sales margin would be a lot less than 4:1.
cspounser: I remember reading something now about the tow hooks being deleted as standard (and optional) equipment beginning during the '99 model year. I guess that is Ford's way of keeping prices down, get rid of an feature that less than 10% of ranger purchasers use. Oh well. At least the Ranger has a large aftermarket parts segment to keep us happy. When I round up that $3000 for the BBK Instacharger, I'll have enough torque, probably 300ft/lbs+, to pull my house down the street.
Comments
I drive a 4wd TRD that for all practical purposes is a 4runner without the extra seats, agreed, if you dont think so, look at the two, and minus the grille and bumper, they are identical from the front doors forward, same interior, same gauges, same frame, same everything. The 4runner tests I pointed to were of a 4wd 4runner with 265-75's, aka 31" tires like I have. I am confident (outside of running the test myself) that a truck configured like a 4 runner would score as well as a 4runner. I can't imagine Toyota putting some sort of special door beams in a 4runner and not a tacoma, because they share so many parts.
This being said I do value my own life, and to quote you what is "germaine" to the safety of me, my family, and all the other things you mentioned, is the specific truck I am driving, and I am confident we are as safe as possible.
If you're going to get rid of the truck in five years, I'd say get the Ranger. It's cheaper, and I think it's a nicer truck.
I'm not an off roader. I just needed wheels that could haul stuff.
Here is a site for those interested in frontal offset crash test for small pickups.http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/small_pickups/crash_pickups.htm
For those interested here is a review for the Ranger.
http://www.auto.com/reviews/qtony20_98ford_ranger.htm
Cpousnr,
Seems I didn't jump on you yet about crawl ratio. Then again how often do I talk about crawl ratio? It is a Spoog topic so I will let the expert talk
I own a Ranger and have already gone up against a TRD. Not impressed. I could do anything, go anywhere, climb, trail anything he could. The locker is only good under 5mph. Enjoy the sticker!
"Daniel are you mad?? To claim the Toyota Tacoma a
better offroad vehicle than Jeep?? You better get a
reading my boy. The Jeep is king as far as a true
rock climber, snorkler, trailer would know. Are
you aware of what you can buy on a Jeep as far as
offroad packages?? "
Factory or aftermarket?
Ohh...also Vince.....do you know what official vehicle is used as emergency pullout and backup vehicles at the Jeep Jamboress and long trail runs? Thats Right, Toyota Pickups, and ONLY toyota pickups.
" The short wheel base and weight
distrubution are just two traits that make the
Jeep king. Go visit a Jeep 4x4 room and make that
claim, you will get stomped."
Not really. The Jeep 4x4 room inhabitants are smart enough to know that the toyota pickups are tough, tough offroaders. They wont snicker at a mention of a Tacoma vs Jeep challenge, but they would downright laugh at a Ranger vs Jeep challenge.
"I own a Ranger and have already gone up against a
TRD. Not impressed. I could do anything, go
anywhere, climb, trail anything he could. The
locker is only good under 5mph. "
lol. Nice try vince. With your weak gearing, poor crawl ratio, lack of horsepower at the higher elevations, lower max rear wheel torque, lower clearance, nill skid plates, nil locker, nil tuned suspension, nill shocks, poor departure and approach angles, no clutch start cancel, ect....you could hardly keep up, let alone complete what a 4x4 TRD could.
"Enjoy the sticker!"
You mean the Ranger "offroad" sticker? THe one that comes with nothing?
JK
But you are right on the money.
Yeah that 24K TRD with the 5mph limit on its locker?? The locker that disengages and goes to an open axle that is?
You crack me up spoog. I know I went up against a TRD, I wanted to and my friend wanted me to also. He wanted to just stomp me, as he put it. Well, to his surprise, he couldn't. Enjoy your overrrated, overpriced, open axle, worst crash test compact tiny truck.
Please, A TRD vs what Jeep has to offer. You guys are really pushing it. Jeep offers a locker that DOESN'T disengage@! and a locker for both axles at that. Along with an inline 6! Once again you guys have way too much confidence in your overrated Tacoma.
The limited slip on the RAnger is ALWAYS available. This is better than an open axle and you know it. Its like me trying to say limited slip is better than a locker, I know better, its not.
Rangers are king and you guys hate it. Sales numbes show it, consumer has spoken for the last 12 years with no end in site. Sales do matter, consumers make the choice. The Ranger is the best overall compact truck on the market today.
See you in the hills. Even though I don't see many Tacoma's where I go. I guess they are too afraid to dent them or scratch them.
And yes, Enjoy your 24K sticker!
Also, I could be wrong (cliffy, let me know), but I don't think the TRD locker disengages above 5 mph, you just shouldn't go faster than that with it engaged. The thing that amuses me is that you trash the TRD locker and then go on to say a locker is better than LSD. Multiple personalities?
Inline 6 vs V6 - From Edmunds, Jeep I-6 has 181hp @ 4600 rpm, 222 ft lb @ 2800 rpm. TRD V6 has 190 hp @ 4800 rpm, 220 ft lb @ 3600. You've been arguing all along that your Ranger is so close to the Tacoma that is is a wash, but then you turn around and say how much stronger the Jeep engines are when they are very close. At least be consistent with your statements!
As far as taking a 24K TRD offroad, two things: First, people do take them up there, that is why many buy them. Second, I have seen more Tacomas on rough terrain (not just mud and hills) than Ranger. Explain that (remember, as you say, the Ranger outsells the Tacoma 4 to 1. Therefore, I would expect to see many more Rangers than Tacomas, but that is far from the truth, at least in my experience).
BTW - maybe your friend just doesn't know how to drive offroad and that's why you didn't get "stomped"
In Summit couty colorado (just east of vail), with all its high mountain passes (12,000 ft variety). I see easily more than 4 rangers to every 1 tacoma offroad.. there are quite a few tacomas up here but most i see are in the parking lots, mostly denver residents i suppose. Offroading outside of Montezuma (10,000'+) this is what you see... Old school broncos, Hummers, Jeeps, and a few rangers, and only one Tacoma in that time..
Granted this is colorado and ppl here tend to buy american but not everywhere can be California..
"They are changing the world out there in California" -J.M.
"Jeep offers a locker thatDOESN'T disengage@! and a locker for both axles at
that. Along with an inline 6! Once again you
guys have way too much confidence in your overratedTacoma. "
Wrong Vinnie. WRONG. Limited slip viscous couplings are NOT lockers.
And if Jeep offered a locker that didnt disengage,
no one would ever be able to trun their vehicle.
Also, please show me wher ethey offer a true locker at both axels?
The last vehicle to offer that stock was the Toyota landcruiser, offering locking rear, center, and front differentials, back in 98.
Nice one Vince. YOu need to realize that limited slip is worthless for offroading. Its good for wet paved roads, 2 wheel drive trucks and passenger cars. Oh by the way......truck companies have yet to find a limited slip in a 4x4 that lasts over 90 k miles.........
Spoog, you are the one who opts to go over objects in your path? and you are trying to lecture me on offroad driving?? I am well aware of the difference between a locker and limited slip axle. All you Tacoma guys like to downplay the limited slip, while hyping up the locker that is limited to 5mph? At least I admit a locker is better than limited slip in certain situations. Most TRD owners will not use the locker in the way its supposed to be used. Its a sales gimmick, no doubt. As you all know I live in Oregon and visit the mountains and deserts quite often. I see a Toyota once in a great while. I mostly see Jeeps, Chevys, and Fords. I can even say I see more Dodge Dakota's than I see Tacoma's!
You know, I am getting burned out here. It seems to be the same thing over and over again. I fold, I have had enough. I will visit from time to time and put my .02$ worth in now an then.
Someone had asked about the new V6 for the Ranger.
It is going to be a single overhead cam 4.0 with 204HP and 240ft/lbs of torque. Last I read it should arrive sometime in Fall of 2000.
See you in the hills!
And yes, MMC enjoy the sticker!
"MMC fails to mention weight comparisons on the
Jeep along with how Jeep balances the weight ratio.
I can't believe all you guys who own Tacoma's and
claim to be avid offroaders can say a Tacoma is
"close to a Jeep" in offroad manners"
Sure I will. A stock tacoma TRD regular cab with a locker will be a good match for a factory WRANGLER.
Theres no doubt in my mind that the Tacoma TRD is a better offroader than the Jeep Cherokee and Grand CHerokees.
A wrangler with a lift, and a locker pushes past a tacoma stock TRD.
The reason why the Jeep is such a great offroader is its approach and departure angles, clearance as good as the Tacoma, and wheel articulation, and its short wheelbase.
You crack me up! You complain about useless bickering and people saying the same thing over and over again with no proof to back up their statements. You are by far one of the worse offenders of these things, in this conference. How many "Enjoy the sticker" comments have we heard. Or "Spoog is a kid" or "He deoesn't own a TRD". We heard it over and over again. You could learn a little from CP. He researches his statements and doesn't post endlessly about his OPINIONS, like you do. Spoog may be harsh sometimes, and i'll admint he posted the recalls alot (As important as i think they are) but at least he backs up his statements. I am sorry to hear your leaving the post. You do keep things alive and definatly keep me laughing, but when you do return, remeber just because you think it is true doesn't make it FACT. Case in Point: "There are more rangers on the road, so it must be the best truck" If everybody jumped off a bridge, does that make it the best idea?
Till your return
-wsn
Would you like Toyota to offer A limited Slip differential Along with the locker?
vince8---I maybe wrong but I dont see why you would need to go over 5mph with locker on. If it is used for crawling on rocks, etc. I wouldnt want to go over 5mph anyway.
Is this enough?
1993 and 1995 to be exact:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/ptoty/98/pastwinners.html
not to mention 1999 by Four Wheeler mag for , as I recall, "Best Buy Compact 4X4 Truck 1999", it was in the printed mag so cannot post the URL
Also 1993:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/93/93hftn.html
Also 1994:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/94/94oneton.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/94/943qtrtn.html
Also 1995:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/95/95onetn.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/95/953qttndsl.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/95/953qttnpu.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/95/95hftnpu.html
Also 1996:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/96/cmpkbst.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/96/fulpkbst.html
http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/bestbuy/96/dslpkbst.html
Is this enough awards for Ford? Saw a FEW toyotas in my search.
sredman1:
I agree with you in regard to seeing vehicles in Colo four wheeling. I have only seen Tacoma TRD's towing ATV trailers, never seen one on 4X mountain passes yet. Guess I have not been out there when they are 4 wheeling. My excursions are limited to Jefferson, Custer, Fremont, Saguache and Huerfano couties so far. . .
Still lookin. . .
Vince-
OK, according to Edmunds, a TAcoma weighs about 200lb more than a Wrangler. That's not a big deal. And when I was saying a TRD was close to a Wrangler, I meant stock to stock. How many STOCK Jeeps have you seen snorkeling and rock crawling (probaly none as a snorkel is an aftermarket part, and I doubt someone would put just a snorkel on their rigs, and no other mods, and you need much larger than stock tires to do some true rock crawling-probably 33's or 35's, stock for Wrangler are 30"). I will concede that a stock TRD could never in a million years keep up with an off-road modded Jeep. Not much out there could, even with mods of their own. I like Jeeps. I had a CJ7 for 5 years and sold it for more than I paid for it (wish I still had it). But stock vs. stock, a Wrangler would not blow away a TRD. Just like a TRD will not blow away a Ranger. Jeep is a little better than TRD (just like I said) and TRD is a little better than RAnger (just like I said). I hope you come back. I have enjoyed sparring with you. It's not personal and its not a fight. We're just discussing different views.
TRD Offroad Package (4WD X-Cab Except Limited)
Includes off-road suspension, aluminum wheels, wheel arch moldings, tires: 31X10.5R15, black overfenders, rear differential lock, tachometer and badging.
The Ranger's Off-Road Package includes:
Off-Road Package (XLT 4WD)
Includes bulge body shocks, styled manual mirrors and off-road Decal.
Do you see how silly your "Enjoy the sticker"comment is? I don't care which truck you prefer, but the TRD is a LOT more then a "Sticker."
For me, the Ranger vs. Tacoma thing is a wash. Each serves a different purpose for different buyers and I don't think either one is "better" then the other.
I WOULD like to see Toyota offer a LS Diff. in the Tacoma, I think it is best suited to the day-to-day street driving that the majority of truck owners do.
Peace :-)
Cpousnr,
Looking forward to watching Army sink Navy this weekend.
96 F-150 Extended Cab: 1/96, * # if you follow the codes, # means Four wheeler of the Year. there are two listings for Toyota for Four Wheeler of the year and it is the 1996 Tacoma and the 1996 T100(and we know what happened to the T100)
Now granted, not a Ranger but the question was FORD.
I will not disagree with sproin(is that spoog spelled differently) and have previously commented that what is offered in the TuRD package is a good value for what you get, if you want all that stuff. As I stated before, the shocks offered are, in the opinion of 2 4Wheel places I am dealing with, overkill for even my Ranger, and it is heavier than the Tacoma. I will choose the Rancho RS9000 5 way adjustable shock when I replace mine. Set it at 2-3 for the road and 4-5 for when 4 wheelin.
mmcbride and spoog too if your on you medicine and won't comment about no Rangers in the pic:
Ophir, Black Bear, Imogene. . .
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/97-Telluride-Rotary/Telluride-Rotary.html
I would LOVE to do these!
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/Telluride-travel/Telluride-Colorado.html
Here is one for hindesite in his neck of the woods.
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/MtWashington-climb/MtWashington-4x4.html
96 F-150 Extended Cab: 1/96, * # if you follow the codes, # means Four wheeler of the Year. there are two listings for Toyota for Four Wheeler of the year and it is the 1996 Tacoma and the 1996 T100(and we know what happened to the T100)
Now granted, not a Ranger but the question was FORD.
I will not disagree with sproin(is that spoog spelled differently) and have previously commented that what is offered in the TuRD package is a good value for what you get, if you want all that stuff. As I stated before, the shocks offered are, in the opinion of 2 4Wheel places I am dealing with, overkill for even my Ranger, and it is heavier than the Tacoma. I will choose the Rancho RS9000 5 way adjustable shock when I replace mine. Set it at 2-3 for the road and 4-5 for when 4 wheelin.
mmcbride and spoog too if your on you medicine and won't comment about no Rangers in the pic:
Ophir, Black Bear, Imogene. . .
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/97-Telluride-Rotary/Telluride-Rotary.html
I would LOVE to do these!
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/Telluride-travel/Telluride-Colorado.html
Here is one for hindesite in his neck of the woods.
http://www.truckworld.com/Travel-Adventure/MtWashington-climb/MtWashington-4x4.html
I think they closed the gate on Dec1 but maybe next year when it reopens
Thanks
-wsn
PS Any comments on what else makes it better would be appreciated
Thanks Again
-larger 16" off-road tires
-fuel tank skid plate
-transfer case skid plate
-stainless steel front suspension skid plate
-4.10 axle ratio
-larger (P235) 15" spare tire
These are in addition to what you stated the pkg as having:
-buldge body shocks
-styled manual mirrors
-off-road decal
All of this costs you $336 (dealer invoice).
For the TRD off-road package, you get:
-bilstein shocks & stiffer springs
-front stabilizer bar
-alloy wheels
-31" tires on 15" rims
-wheel arch molding
-rear locker
-4.30 axle ratio
-tachometer
-TRD badging
This will cost you $1,337 (dealer invoice).
Now, the Ranger 4x4 comes standard with the tach, alloy wheels, and fender flares. The off-road package adds an off-road tuned suspension (taco is a little better off-road, but ranger is better on-road, so I'd net them about equal) and better axle ratio. What you've pretty much got left is a locker and front stabilizer bar. So, these two items cost you about a $1,000 when compared to the Ranger's off-road pkg.
The LSD for the Ranger will cost you another $250. I'd personally prefer the LSD to the locker, as about 95% of my driving is done on the road, so the LSD is always there to help out when needed. If I needed a locker and did some serious 4-wheeling, it would be on an old CJ. I'm not going to take a 20K+ truck (either ranger or taco) into some serious s&*! as rock climbing, etc...
Well, we finally come to a stabilizer bar for $750 when you take into account standard equipment, off-road pkg & TRD pkg options, and other optional equipment.
You're right. The TRD does offer more in terms of QUANTITY of options, but I don't believe that offers more in terms of VALUE of options.
In any case, it all comes down to personal preference. I realize that neither magazine articles or sales figures will tell me which truck is the best for me. I've already got that figured out: '98 Ranger 4x4 4.0L V6 5sp-auto off-road pkg, open differential, every power goodie for $18,500. It still books at $17,000 after a year and a half and 15K problem-free miles.
The ratios are as compared to Ranger automatic:
Toyota
1st 2.80:1, 2nd 1.53:1, 3rd 1.0:1 xfercase 2.57:1
Ranger
1st 2.47:1, 2nd 1.85:1, 3rd 1.47:1 xfercase2.48:1
Crawl ratio of Tacoma 4sp automatic with 4.1 rear end is:
2.80 X 2.57 X 4.1 = 29.55
Not anywhere near the 40:1 ratio of the Tacoma manual. To state it further, an auto equipped Tacoma 4X4 will have a crawl ratio far worse than my Ranger 5 speed manual vehicle. HOWEVER, it, the auto Tacoma, would certainly be able to go on the 4 wheel drive trails I go on. Just like my Ranger can traverse the trails a Tacoma goes on.
My POINT is that when you compare an automatic vs a manual 4 wheel drive, the automatic WILL be at a disadvantage. A FAIRER test would have put an aut vs an auto or a manual vs a manual.
Which is better?
THE ONE THAT FITS AN INDIVIDUAL'S NEEDS AND POCKETBOOK! Because your getting real SUBJECTIVE when that question is asked.
By the way, I just installed my rear tow hooks on my Ranger. I really do not think it now makes my truck superior to yours but it is kinda kewl seeing the chrome hooks hangin down on the rear frame.
(Oh oh! did I just find a hidden, up to now un-identifed feature on the Ranger that the Tacoma does not have?)
and my liner contours it very well. You lay 2X6 wood in there to allow for hauling 4X8 sheets of stuff without breaking it due to wheel wells. I would GUESS, but do not know, they should be able to build in little indentations in the liner.
Also, if you do it, go over the rails. I did not and regret it as it is 125 bucks to add over the rails.
-wsn
I've been reading all these boards. I have never owned a truck, but I am now in the final decision-making process for buying one, and I have already decided that it will be a 2000 Tacoma 4wd, 6 cyl.
After reading the posts, I wonder if someone could help me understand some terminology. For example, what is a "locker" (in reference to args between lockers and slips)?
How is the center of gravity on the 4wd Tacomas when cornering? Under normal street wear-and-tear and maybe 100hrs/year of mild off-road activity, how well can I expect all that 4wd gear under there to hold up? Is it pricey to replace when damaged?
As you can see, I'm not a truck nut (yet)...I'm just a computer engineer looking for some advice from what I believe to be the best source of information -- the owners of such vehicles -- before the salesmen get ahold of me!!
Thanks!
It is just that I think that Vince's constant "Enjoy the sticker" is so OFF-BASE, that I wanted to post to the contrary, just to try and be fair. Again, thanks for the correction and the correct information.
CPousner,
Please don't confuse me (S-P-O-R-I-N) with SPOOG. thanks :-)
""When was the last time a Ford was votedOff-Roader/4Wheeler/4x4 of the year?"
Is this enough?1993 and 1995 to be exact:"
And Cspounser....how many of those contests were against a Toyota pickup? Just curious......
I just purchase a Tacoma TRD and by my standards it corners and handles well. I had an older Toyota so I feel that the TRD's stiffer suspension provides much better all around handling. Some reviews say that the Tacoma does not handle well on the road but I think these guys spend most of there time test driving BMW's, Lexus' and so on.
The Ranger is a great truck also. My friend had one untill it was totalled a few weeks ago and she loved it. Test drive as many makes as you can and make up your mind, dont let anyone on this dscussion make you think there is a clear cut best choice.
P.S. I put my older Pick-Up through hell. I would not worry about the equipment under the truck too much. The ground clearances of both of these trucks are more then adequate to handle off road activity.
Lets not get into this shall we? Your beloved Consumer reports just picked the Tundra as the only full size pickup it reccomends, even in its first year.
Also, It doesnt suprise me that a ful lsize ford won 4wheeelr of the year. Look at its competition, Cevhy ands Dodge full sizes lol.
cspounser: I remember reading something now about the tow hooks being deleted as standard (and optional) equipment beginning during the '99 model year. I guess that is Ford's way of keeping prices down, get rid of an feature that less than 10% of ranger purchasers use. Oh well. At least the Ranger has a large aftermarket parts segment to keep us happy. When I round up that $3000 for the BBK Instacharger, I'll have enough torque, probably 300ft/lbs+, to pull my house down the street.