Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - III

scape2 · December 1999

Sorry, but you better check your facts again. The Ranger has more torque than the Tacoma 225 vs 220. And check the torque/HP curve you may be surprised. And the Tacoma has the WORST crash test rating in its class also. And the locker, well don't go over 5mph, it disengages after that into an OPEN axle! OPEN AXLE. I can tell what you are going to use your truck for a commuter not a REAL truck. The MPG is only a 2 MPG better than the Ranger. Also, no 4 doors, no limited slip,. You will pay substantialy more for a perceived quality/reliability advantage. visit www.carpoint.msn.com and look under both Tacoma and Toyota trucks you may be surprised. These trucks are more equal than you think. Your caught up in the HP psycho babble. And as far as Four Wheeler mag, This test was picked apart in earlier posts and MANY inconsistancies were found, the Ranger used was not as well optioned as the Toyota. And once again spoog fails to let everyone know the price of 24K for the TRD. I don't even think a 24K Ranger exists. Test drive, Test drive, Test drive.

spoog · December 1999

DONT buy Vinces BS. I have all the facts right here. I suggest you examine the 4wheeler link above, and also this link :

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/

This is the link to the OFFICIAL reliability and defect site, run by the government. This is ALSO the site that did the testing for the Tacoma and Ranger in which the Tacoma scored low.
Check out the DEFECTINVESTIAGTIONS

93-99 Tacoma 30 Defect Investigations

93-99 Ranger 650 Defect investiagations

Check out safety recalls

89-99 Ranger 300 saftey recalls

89-99 Tacoma 60 saftey recalls

check out tecnical Repair bulletin Recalls:

89-99 ranger- 450 repair bulletins

89-99 Tacoma 60 Repair bulletins

This is THE site for this kind of information. MS carpoints resource database is by calling people on the phone, very limited. As we know, people can be biased. THE NHSTA site is NOT biased. This is the place where MANy consumer magazines get their info from. It is the real deal.

Also check out the JUNE issue of Petersons offroad.

They TOO picked the Tacoma YET AGAIN over the Ranger in a compact truck shoot out, head to head.
Tacoma wins again.

Also The SERCHER, be sure to check out the stats and technical specifications on that 4wheeler pickup of the year link. It gives you pictures of the brakes and other components, plus thje rear wheel max torque and other great stats:

http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/ptoty/98/

click on this link and click on technical info and specifications.

Please NOTE this comment on the technical page:

"Ford's new compact frontend uses F-150-style short- and long-arm IFS, with torsion bars. The setup offers big gains on pavement--but not without trail sacrifices.

Toyota's double A-arm/coilover frontend handles pavement cornering and trail flex with equal skill. We like the six-lug axles and big-caliper front discs. "

A"lthough the middle-sized V-6 of the group, the Toyota 3.4-liter DOHC 24-valve V-6 pulled all the way through the torque curve like most small-blocks. "

" Toyota's TRD Tacoma comes with the only factory offered rear locking differential on any (full-size or compact) pickup. We found it a huge asset for trail adventures. "

Even Four wheeler isnt happy with the Rangers suspension. It is made for street driving.
This is what is used on the f150 too. tsk tsk. Again we get back to Fords design philosophy.
Right down the line.

also THESERCHER if you have any doubt how tough a truck the Tacoma is, click on this link, then click onthe Offraod Adventures section to the left. Let ALL the pictures load, and watch the tAcoma go through some SERIOUS mudholes and water, and watch it tow out a super modified, lifted ford f150 with huge tires TWICE!!!!!!!!

Good stuff I tell ya! :

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/

The Sercher : This information in this post should help you GREATLY in choosing your vehicle. YOu may want to save this and bookmark the links for later use.

Enjoy!

spoog · December 1999

Vince writes:

"And the locker, welldon't go over 5mph, it disengages after that into
an OPEN axle! OPEN AXLE. I can tell what you are
going to use your truck for a commuter not a REALtruck. "

lol. Vince, what did all those land cruisers, Jeep Cj'7s, and Range Rovers EVER do with their open axles???? lol. These are real trucks.

Limited slip is for 2wd trucks and cars.

cthompson21 · December 1999

"The previous generation truck had 12% less
displacement yet 20% less torque with an SOHC
design. We went from 150 hp to 190 and 180 # to
220 torque."

Well, that should happen. When you go from 3.0 to 3.4 liters, you had better have some sort of performance gains. In general, the old addage of "there's no replacement for displacement" is true. This is pretty much what happended when the 3.0 was bored out to 3.4.

You were also asking why the SOHC V6 isn't yet available in the Ranger. When the engine was first available, there wasn't enough production capacity to support even the Explorer demands. The Explorer is more profitable, so it got the engine. Also, the engine only mates with the 5-speed auto. Ford has to modify the manual tranny to work with the new engine. Ford probably isn't in any rush either. The Ranger is and has been the best-selling compact truck for the past 12 or so years, and it doesn't look like this will change any time soon. Unfortunately for us Ford Ranger guys, Ford has no immediate motivation to put the new engine into the ranger. However, it looks like it may be available in next year's model rangers. I'm not holding my breath, though. In the meantime, the OHV 4.0 is very capable. It also takes well to mods for those of us out there who like to tinker with our vehicles.

cthompson21 · December 1999

Horsepower is a completely made up measurement. It is derived from torque, which is an actual measurement in ft/lbs or newtons. I can't remember exactly now, but the formula is something like:

horsepower = engine rpm/(5280 x torque)

I'm not saying it's useless, but automotive companies have people thinking "If it's got the most horsepower, it's the best." This is now always the case.

On another note, the absolutely dumbest measurement I've ever heard is hp/L. Whoever came up with this one? It is completely useless, and it gives no point of comparability between engines.

cthompson21 · December 1999

Spoog posts about newer engines and high rpm's:

"The newer engines CAN and DO excell under these
conditions, with minimum wear and tear."

So, tell me this. While engine will have the most
adverse affects on it in terms of wear and
longevity:

(1) An engine running at or slightly above idle
(2) An engine running at or slightly below redline

Well, which is it? Please answer this question.
You've ignored 90% of the questions I've posted to
you. The other 10% that you answered, you
completely misunderstood the question.

cthompson21 · December 1999

I would also suggest looking closely at spooge's "sources." He's a rather simple fellow and doesn't understand the factors behind the so-called big numbers.

cliffy1 · December 1999

You missed the point. Toyota increased displacement by 12% but got a 20% increase in HP. The 4.0 ford has less HP than the 3.4 Toyota. Tell me again how number and placement of valves has no bearing on HP.

Also, tell me what that clicking sound I hear is on every OHV Ford engine I see with over 60K miles. The SOHC engine has been available for a few years now and you are telling me they still can't figure out how to build enough. What a crock.

I will concede the 4 door issue for now. That will be corrected in 8 months. Ford has the same arrogance about technology updates that they did back in the 70s.

scape2 · December 1999

Spoog quotes the same sites over and over again. Please read the NHSTA site, I mean READ. He wants you to see the total numbers not the repeats, the ones for stickers missing, or the ones that only pertain to certain build lots of Rangers.
Ranger hasn't retained its number 1 spot and be able to continue to outsell the Tacoma for nothing. It still outsells the Tacoma almost 4 to 1. And we can go the route of "finiancing" or "fleet sales". Toyota fleet sales also, and offers the same finance rates as Toyota in my region. It comes down to the best all around truck for a FAIR price. I like how he constantly dismisses any of my resources. go see www.carpoint.msn.com and even right here at Edmunds long term Ranger test. The Ranger is the best all around compact truck on the road today.

cthompson21 · December 1999

Your thinking may be a little simplified if you think that the increase in horsepower or torque should directly correlate with the increase in displacement. And, I never said anything about the number and placement of valves having no bearing on horsepower or torque. I don't know where you're getting this from.

I said that any gains of a DOHC over a SOHC would be at an rpm that typically a truck never sees. I think you were the one who brought up the argument of "the more cams the better."

I thought I had explained the availability of the SOHC 4.0 to you earlier. Initially, there was not enough capacity for even the Explorer. I have no idea what it is now. I also know that the SOHC 4.0 cannot mate to the current manual tranny offered in the ranger, so they probably have to modify it.

Tell me this. If you were Ford, would you be rushing to offer new engines in the top-selling compact truck, which currently and in the near future has no serious threats to its market share?

I don't know exactly what ticking sound you're talking about, but every 4.0 I've heard is noisy. Personally, I haven't heard any problems due to the engine's inherent noisiness.

cliffy1 · December 1999

"Tell me this. If you were Ford, would you be
rushing to offer new engines in the top-selling
compact truck, which currently and in the near
future has no serious threats to its market share? "

Why improve in old technology because it is currently selling well? That is exactly the attitude the domestic manufacturers had in the 70s. I hope they keep it up.

Thank you for conceding the point on noisy engines.

It was not you but someone else who made the cam placement comment. Sorry for responding to you with it.

cthompson21 · December 1999

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you that Ford has not been continually updating their engines/technology recently.

The 4.0 was introduced in '91 in the Explorer. I think that '93 was the first year it was available in the Ranger. The 3.0 replaced the 2.9 in the Ranger in '91. It was hp and torque was bumped up in (I think) '98, and it was converted to a flexible fuel engine. The 2.5 4-cylinder replaced the 2.3 in '98 or '99. So, the 4.0 at 9yrs is the "oldest" unupdated engine offered in the Ranger. The 3.0 and 2.5 have had improvements in the last 2 years.

Then, take a look at other vehicles. How about the Triton's in the full-sized trucks? What about the 5.4L Supercharged V8 in the Lightning? How about the first 5.4L V8 offered in a Mustang ('99 Cobra R)? How about the recent hp/torque increase in both 4.6L V8's available in the Mustangs. How about the big jump in output in the Mustang's 3.8L V6 (150 to 190hp). What about the 2.5L and 3.0L Duratecs? How about the SVT 2.5L Duratec (my favorite)? How about the 4cylinder Ztec's (huge improvement over Ford's previous 4cylinder offerings)? How about the V8 in the Lincoln LS? What about the Lincoln LS itself, the Motor Trend Car of the year, which now includes imports & domestics? How about the Mercury Cougar and soon to be built Mercury Merauder? What about the Explorer Sport Trac? How about the Mustang swapping to the 5.4L V8 supposedly in the 2002 model year? How about the first IRS in a "pony" car with the SVT Cobra? What about the Ford Adrenalin? How about the SVT Focus to (unfortunately) replace the Contour? How about Ford's new line of baby diesels (check out www.blueovalnews.com)? How about a possible I5? How about the supercharged 4.0L V6 to power the Ford Adrenalin?

Ford has been updating vehicle and engine technology. I think the '70s and '80s taught them a big lesson when technologically superior japanese vehicles were gulping up market share. Nowadays, you don't have market share leaders (mustang, ranger, F150) or others who are always near the top without updating your technology.

barlitz · December 1999

I think Chetkong is still waiting for a response to his question on his Toyota problem post #527.

spoog · December 1999

"I would also suggest looking closely at spooge's
"sources." He's a rather simple fellow and doesn't
understand the factors behind the so-called big
numbers."

Indeed. My numbers show it all. Where are your LINKS thompson? All I see coming from your mouth is heresay and myth.

4wheeler.com :

" The Tacoma won EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE CATEGORY"

"ITs not often our staff agrees on anything, but the Tacoma was a UNANIMOUS decision over the Ranger and Mazda"

EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE CATEGORY thompson? I think that settles the engine dispute right here.

The tacoma has a ahigher standard tow capacity, a higher standard payload capacity, is rated as a 3/4 ton truck, ect.

4wheeler again writes :

" Although the middle size engine of the three the Tacoma pulls through the torque curve like a small block v8."

Point is Thompson, the POINt of an engine is to PERFORM well. Perorm=PERFORMANCE, and the Tacoma beat the Ranger in EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE CATEGORY. ENough said, end of discussion.

Wether the eniges are multivalve or not, or pushrod, is irrelevant. THe Tacomas six has been proven to be the superior engine, NOtONLY in terms of performance, but in reliability and lack of defects.

I have BACKED THESE statements up time and time again.

Where are your reviews and tests cliaming the Ford 4.0 Thompson? Where are your back ups? opps, forgot, you dont have any. Get lost.

ponm · December 1999

I am new to the new 4X4 thing, and have been asking questions quite often in this forum. Of course, it is unhealthy for a 4x4 vehicle if you do not engage the 4x4 system often. Here are my questions: How often should you use your 4wd(besides the times when needed) and how long can you drive with the system on without damaging anything?

cthompson21 · December 1999

So, a little mismatched (in terms of optioning comparable vehicles with similar transmissions, tire sizes, and gearing) comparison is supposed to be the know-all end-all of engines? Were you that kid in my 4th grade class who used to sit in the back of the room and eat paste?

That 2 year old magazine article is your argument to anything and everything automotive. Do you have it laminated and stuck in your wallet? Do you read it and pray to it each night you go to bed? Do you make it breakfast each morning when you get up?

But seriously, why do you keep posting such a completely biased article from 2yrs ago? Even the other toyota guys have agreed that inconsistencies abound, and two similar trucks were not even compared.

Hey, you just keep looking at that magazine article when you're making your monthly payments. Maybe that magical magazine article can somehow put more money into your checking account.

If you really believe that this magazine article settles everything, I've got a really nice bridge for sale that I'll give you a good deal on...

cliffy1 · December 1999

The Toyota owners manual is a bit vague about it but recommends engaging it once a month. I would certainly not do it on a dry day or around corners. Wait for rain and take it easy. Keep it under 50 mph and avoid sharp corners.

Or just lease one and don't worry about it (kidding!)

benz88 · December 1999

I have a 2000 Tacoma with auto and have not experienced the problem you described. I'm curious, were you parked on an incline?

This could be a serious problem for me because I've installed a remote starter.

scape2 · December 1999

ponm, I will answer your question. yes, you must engage your 4wheel drive once in a while. The helps keep the mechanicals working/lubed and the like. 4-wheel drives can become very expensive if you don't keep them well maintained, for any model whether it be Ford, Toyota, Nissan, GM.
This is why Toyota/Mazda/Nissan/Ford have come out with 2wd trucks that have the ground clearance and stance of a 4wd but are actually 2wd. This may be the way for you to go if you don't plan on actually using your 4wd very often.
Test drive them all its free! And the Ford/Mazda/Nissan come with a limited slip rearend in their 2wd versions not an OPEN AXLE.

cthompson21 · December 1999

As for limits of the amount of driving with 4wd engaged, I haven't heard of any. Just use common sense. If it's dry or not needed, don't use it. If you do use it a lot, I'd decrease the interval between ATF changes (running in 4wd puts more stress on the tranny), possibly use synthetic fluids, and make sure you (or a mechanic) lubed it at least once a year. In addition, I'd check the owner's manual to see if the manufacturer recommends any particular maintenance.

cthompson21 · December 1999

What are some of toyota's long-term plans with the tacoma? Any new engines or redesigns down the line? They're putting in a 3rd door right? Any quad-cab versions (like the Frontier or Sport Trac) coming out soon? I've got a hunch that this little market niche is gonna be big. I'm considering consolidating (trade in ranger and svt contour) to this type of vehicle when I head off to grad school in a couple of years. I'll absolutely hate to get rid of my 'tour (as they unfortunately won't be built anymore), but Ford will always build rangers. I still need something with a bed to haul moderate loads and something to tow my snowmobiles. Something like the Sport Trac, Frontier Quad-Cab, or Ranger King Cab would be a lot more fun than the SUV's.

DTKWOK · December 1999

Hi,
I've been visiting this chat topic for a little over month now and have found the arguments to be "intersting".
I guess I'll just add my $0.02 about Toyota. We own an '86 Toyota pickup XTra cab with 170K + miles on it, original transmission and engine. This truck is used as a work truck for our little construction business and has not given us a single major problem. So, you could say Toyota reliability is ingrained into our minds.
Now, before anyone accusses me of being anti-Ford, I would like to point out that I have friends with Rangers slightly over 100K miles with no problems either. However, I also heard horror stories (not confirmed) about Ranger reliability from many mechanics as well....
I believe Vince8 mentioned that the Ranger outsells the Taco 4 to 1 here. Okay, I won't argue with this number because it is advertised on T.V., magazines, etc... However, I just wanted to toss this question up in the air. "How well does the Ranger do in sales outside the U.S. - European, Asian countries, Australia?" (yes, they do sell pickups outside the western hemisphere.)
I was wondering because I had visited the Malaysian Islands 2 summers ago and saw nothing but Toy's, Land Rovers, and some Jeeps. (Please keep in mind that their infrastructure makes the worst potholed streets here, look like freshly paved road.)
Also another thing to point out is that everytime our armed forces end up defending another country, what kind of SUV do you see the UN use? Explorers? Nope, 4Runners, yes.
Again, please don't take this as an argument against Ford, just something to think about. Thanks for reading.

DTKWOK

DTKWOK · December 1999

Hi,
I've been visiting this chat topic for a little over month now and have found the arguments to be "intersting".
I guess I'll just add my $0.02 about Toyota. We own an '86 Toyota pickup XTra cab with 170K + miles on it, original transmission and engine. This truck is used as a work truck for our little construction business and has not given us a single major problem. So, you could say Toyota reliability is ingrained into our minds.
Now, before anyone accusses me of being anti-Ford, I would like to point out that I have friends with Rangers slightly over 100K miles with no problems either. However, I also heard horror stories (not confirmed) about Ranger reliability from many mechanics as well....
I believe Vince8 mentioned that the Ranger outsells the Taco 4 to 1 here. Okay, I won't argue with this number because it is advertised on T.V., magazines, etc... However, I just wanted to toss this question up in the air. "How well does the Ranger do in sales outside the U.S. - European, Asian countries, Australia?" (yes, they do sell pickups outside the western hemisphere.)
I was wondering because I had visited the Malaysian Islands 2 summers ago and saw nothing but Toy's, Land Rovers, and some Jeeps. (Please keep in mind that their infrastructure makes the worst potholed streets here, look like freshly paved road.)
Also another thing to point out is that everytime our armed forces end up defending another country, what kind of SUV do you see the UN use? Explorers? Nope, 4Runners, yes.
Again, please don't take this as an argument against Ford, just something to think about. Thanks for reading.

DTKWOK

trent · December 1999

I would think it has more to do with marketing than anything else.

scape2 · December 1999

Gee, I though the HUMMER was in desert storm? An American made 4x4 to crush all 4x4's if I might add. And don't forget Discoveries they are alos known all over the world.
The U.S. market it the largest car/truck/van market in the world, right now. (China is going to be big in the new millenium). You see more GM/Dodge/Ford product in the Latin American countries than you do Toyota's. I believe its all a regional thing. If your claiming Toyota to be larger than Ford, Better check yer facts again sir.
I have never claimed to be anit-Toyota here folks, nor have I claimed the Tacoma to be unreliable or garbage, unlike some other folks who claim the Ranger to be so inferior.

DTKWOK · December 1999

Vince8,

Yes, of course nothing beats a Hummer, great sand capabilities as well as a weapons platform! (that's why the Wilys were replaced with this.)
As a single country, the US is the largest automobile market in the world, but is it larger than all the other countries combined (I don't know.)?
No, I'm not claiming that Ford is not the largest car company either. I've seen several Ford vehicle models in Australia, Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan myself. (They have a real nice model called the Mondeo there.

Their Cogsworth division is pretty impressive as well.) Yeah I agree that there are many Ford trucks in Latin America too, but how about outside the western Hemisphere? It seems that Toy's, Disco's, and Jeeps are the norm over there, whether by region or preference.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that when we compare vehicles we tend to look at the US as the only country on this planet who owns/deals with cars/trucks. I respect Ford very much for the improvements and ingenuity that they have made this decade. If they were as bad a many people say, they probably wouldn't have the global presence they would have today, right?

P.S. Yes, I do know that you're not anti-Toyota but unfortunately some people treat their vehicles (of all makes)like one of their family members.

scape2 · December 1999

One thing Americans are is passionate about the vehicles they drive and own. I keep asking the import group as to why Ford/GM haven't gone out of business yet after 20+ years of having Toyota/Honda/Nissan on board in the U.S if they are making such garbage. Heck, I think having the competition has made better cars/trucks/vans period for the consumer!
See you in the hills.

ponm · December 1999

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm trying to decide whether or not i really need a 4x4. I would probably never go heavy 4x4, but i do go camping often. My concern is the snow we get in southern illinois, which can be quite a bit. Does limited slip really make that much of a difference when it comes to large amounts of snow?

mviglianco1 · December 1999

The reason Chevy/Dodge, I am not including Ford because they are pretty good IMO, keep selling vehicles is because many people base their decisions souly upon what their fathers and grandfathers drove and continue to do so regardless of the quality.

This is interesting:
My friend was in a wreck about a month or so ago and had a good amount of damage done to her Ranger. She was wondering why it was taking so long to fix it so she called to see what the hold up was. They(Ford dealership) said they were waiting for the Mexican parts to arrive and that they hoped that they would all fit. Now I know that this may say more about the insurance company then Ford, but I am pretty sure, but not positive that Toyota does not use any Mexican aftermarket parts that may or may not fit.

wsnoble · December 1999

4Door Tacoma

Toyota has been making a 4 door Tacoma for years, just not in this country. I think they may have even been the first (not positive)

Vince

You kill me! You badmouth Spoog for quoting the NHTSA and 4Wheeler, but you carry the torch for carpoint like their paying you or something. I think the NHTSA and 4wheeler are better sources, in my opnion. Where does carpoint even get thier info from? Is it even posted on their website?

The tacoma uses 3 4wheel drive systems.

1) Manual Hubs with interior lever for 2/4h/4l
2) Auto hubs with interior lever for 2/4h/4l
3) Push button 4wd with lever for 4L (I think?)

I chose the manual combo because

1.) Stronger setup
2.) My 94 Ranger's system always had problems
3.) Cheaper to fix if problems arrise
4.) Cheaper to purchase from the "Get Go"

In the winter you can lock your hubs without shifting into 4H. This is useful for all the auto hub folks who don't want to "get out" of their truck. Manual huns are not that much of a hassle. People are just lazy IMO.

Auto Taco

My Taco has not jumped out of Park (98 4wd)

Upcoming Taco

New Taco do fall 2000 (I think)

Toyota Fleet sales? Please provide info on this?

Vince

You answerd your own ?

"One thing Americans are is passionate about the
vehicles they drive and own. I keep asking the
import group as to why Ford/GM haven't gone out of
business yet after 20+ years of having"

Americans are passonate about their auto's and many purchases are made by folks being "Patriotic" hence one reason the Big3 are still business. Belive it or not but it's a fact. Just read any discussion on Emunds comparing a Domestic to a "Foreign" auto. It shows up everywhere = FACT!

-wsn

cliffy1 · December 1999

We are scheduled to get a completely redesigned Tacoma in late spring or early summer. I have no details except for the fact that it will be available with 4 doors probably of the suicide variety and not a crew cab.

I know Toyota has been stung by lower than expected sales and will be addressing some of the concerns addressed here like price, doors, safety and possibly power. I still don't expect to see a limited slip differential any time soon.

We also have three new SUVs coming within the next three years. The first will be the Sequoia based on the Tundra followed by "sports wagons" based on the Camry and Corolla. The Camry edition will be a de-contented RX300 and will probably be built in Indiana.

h22 · December 1999

I'm in the market for a compact 4x4 truck and I've been observing this thread for a few weeks now. After reading all the responses to each others remarks regarding their respective truck. I've decided to go with a Tacoma. I've researched the Tacoma and Ranger on various Webpages (including Ranger-bias and Tacoma-bias sites) and I believe the Tacoma is the superior truck. It just seems to me that the Ranger owners go out of their way to dis-credit the Tacoma with irrelenvent data, such as sales figures and the typical, "My Ranger can do anything your Tacoma can do" line. Which to me proves the Tacoma might in fact be a better truck. Almost as though, Ranger owners regret purchasing their trucks and now needs to justify their purchase by dis-creditting the Tacoma, a truck they probably wanted in the first place.
This thread is a great referrence for future compact truck buyers, such as myself. But to be honest, the Ranger owners seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially when they go into non Ranger/Tacoma truck threads and tries to dis-credit anything that is not Ford. Makes you wonder what there real motives are.
I'm willing to pay a little more for the reliability Toyota is known for. It may or may not be as good as many say. But we have to realize that this reputation was built somehow.

mmcbride1 · December 1999

I couldn't have said it better myself.

spoog · December 1999

H22 writes:

"I'm in the market for a compact 4x4 truck and I've
been observing this thread for a few weeks now.
After reading all the responses to each others
remarks regarding their respective truck. I've
decided to go with a Tacoma. I've researched the
Tacoma and Ranger on various Webpages (including
Ranger-bias and Tacoma-bias sites) and I believethe Tacoma is the superior truck"

GREAT choice H22! Enjoy your new Toyota pickup.

cthompson21 · December 1999

Uh, yes. We ranger owners actually get paid by Ford to post that the ranger is better than the taco. My check should be here at the end of the month...

)

There is no "better" truck. There's only a truck that is "better" for you. Before you jump right into any big vehicle purchase, don't you think it would be a good idea to test drive the vehicle you've already made up your mind on buying? You might also want to look at its competition. They might even have a vehicle that's better for you. It could be Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Isuzu, Toyota, or something else.

Personally, I have never tried to "discredit" the Taco. I believe it (just my opinion) to be one of the best 2 trucks in the compact p/u market. Ask somebody else, and they'll tell you something different.

It all came down to the Ranger being better for me. It has a torquey engine (i need to tow). It has able off-road capabilities (nothing serious, just snow and somewhat muddy trails when i go hunting). I like its size (as with all trucks in the compact segment). I've had good experience with Fords and reliability, even though any vehicle can be a lemon. It has great interior ergonomics (in my opinion). It looks tough but classy (also my opinion). Nothing else came withing a grand that had the options I wanted. I also got great financing and rebates. My dealer was great (later bought an SVT Contour from him). There's a Ford dealer 2min from my house with a top notch service dept should it ever be needed.

As for the Toyota: It was considerably more (about 4-5K after taking current rebates, financing into account). It has more off-road capabilities than I'd ever use. The interior was plain (in my opinion). The engine was a little weak in the low end (like I said, I need to tow my snowmobiles). Only 1 dealer within 30mins of my house (makes it tough to pit one dealer against the other for a better deal, no options as far as service dept either).

As for Chevy (seemingly poor build quality), Dodge (mucho bucks to add some options), and Nissan (can't even think of a dealer within 30mins of my house), they didn't do it for me either.

In short, go out and test drive, test drive, test drive. You might really be kicking yourself later if you don't.

cthompson21 · December 1999

Seems like the next model yr or two should be interesting in the ranger vs. tacoma. In any case, it only gets better for us. Maybe more torque for the tacoma and a lower price. Maybe more refinements and hp for the ranger. Plus, we've got doors, doors, doors. Crew cabs, king cabs, quad cabs, all kindsa cabs. You name it.

barlitz · December 1999

What did they do to the Avalon I was behind a new one today and it was the ugliest thing I've ever seen.It also looks like it got a lot smaller my sister has one thats 2 years old.

cpousnr · December 1999

a 5 star side crash test rating without major redesign in the quality of their cab.

H22, enjoy what ever you buy. It is an major investment. Howerver, remeber that 30mph side impacts have a 45% or greater chance of being fatal in a Tacoma as compared to Ranger. Also, forget the sales figures, there are quite a few of independent groups out there, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, the Govt independent crash tests that all select Ranger over the Tacoma. But there will still be people that will cite 2 year old articles that are intended to SELL you on a specific vehicle.

Let me rephrase something you were, I guess, thinking was intended to cut down a Tacoma. It was not intended that way by me but here goes:

A Tacoma can go anywhere my Ranger has been, maybe.

By the way, I stopped to help pull a 92 SR5 4X4 Toyota out of the ditch on the side of the road Saturday, it was being stopped by 4 inches of snow on icy dirt. But an F150 was already hooked up to pull it out.

mmcbride1 · December 1999

I don't think h22 was referring to you guys. You are both willing to see the strengths and weaknesses of both trucks. Vinny and Unix are a different story, though. They both like to go to Tacoma/Toyota only rooms and trash Tacomas/Toyotas.

scape2 · December 1999

What@! MMC, I haven't been in any other Toyota rooms in weeks! What the hell do you mean! Are you mad because I whooped you in the Explorer vs 4-runner room?? And look who is calling the kettle black?? YOU LEASED your 4-runner! What kind of message does this send?? Think about it.
HH2, You are buying into the Toyota stigma and the image that Tacoma owners love to portray. I hate to burst your bubble but the Tacoma is no better or worse than a Ranger. I can also tell you never test drove a Ranger and compared. But, you make the final decision, enjoy what you buy. I notice noone really answered the person with the TAcoma slipping out of parK? or if you scroll deeper into the Edmunds truck list there is another complaining about their seats falling apart! And another with transmission problems.
Pnom, yes limited slip does make a huge difference and can be had on ANY Ranger. Unlike the OPEN Axle of the Tacoma. Anyone who offroads will tell you an OPEN AXLE is NOT better than a limited slip.
I keep saying over and over again. I have NEVER said the Tacoma was unreliable, or a terrible truck. Just an expensive one and for what? Option for option the Tacoma will cost you more, even cliffy (the salesperson)knows this, posts it in 560. Why am I gettin labled a Toyota Tacoma hater? or anti-Toyota? Anyone can scroll and see I center on price, options, value, engines, torque, torque curves. I have never called the Toyota Tacoma a "grocery getter" have I? Why aren't spoog, mmc, wsn, labled as anti Ford radicals? I am starting to see a double standard here.

scape2 · December 1999

Forgot to include hind on that list of anit-Ford radicals.

sredman1 · December 1999

I started out wanting a tacoma also.. BUT then i did more research.. Ranger is Just as reliable, (just for spoog, maybe a LIL less),Has a much nicer interior, Safer,and substantially Less expensive than a Tacoma.

i have had my Ranger for 3 months now and love everything about it.

Good luck with whatever you buy.

sredman1 · December 1999

As far as the post on waitng for Mexican parts.. that is a reflection on the BODY SHOP and mostly your insurance policy..not Ford.. i would fight tooth and nail with the body shop and insurance company for Genuine ford products..

another way the Ford is a better buy: Much cheeper to insure.

H22
another reason i went with ford is the ability to Order Exactly what i wanted and have it when they said it would be there.

cthompson21 · December 1999

With what you're planning on doing with your truck, it sounds like you could get buy with a 4x2. If you don't need a 4x4, don't pay for one. A limited slip differential and 200-300lbs of sand over your rear axle during the winter should easily handle the snowfall in your area (i live in chicago, and i lived champaign too).

Currently, Ranger's have a new 'sport' package that has the look of a 4x4, higher stance & fog-light valance. Tacomas also have a pre-runner, which is the same thing. But, Tacomas don't come with a limited slip differential, only an open axle. And, to my knowledge the locking rear axle is only available on 4x4s.

wsnoble · December 1999

Vince

Once again you crack me up. If having valid reasons and facts to back them up, makes me Anti Ford so be it. For the record though, as i've stated before, i like the ranger. Would have bought one if the Taco was not offered. I only compare the two on this thread when i am stating what reasons made the taco a better choice for me. You may not be Anti Taco as you "Claim" but you consistantly "Trash" Toyota all over this site. If you don't want be known as "Anti Toyota", remember actions speak louder than words.

CP I don't think your "Anti Toyota", but you do mention (Important as it is) the crash rating a bit much..(smile) I do think you are fair and objective, and may want to pull one the "Real" Taco haters aside and show him the way...(joke)

H22 Enjoy a great on and off road vehicle

Auto Tran ?

I did address this ? (#559) with what little i know. I know i don't have the problem. I thouht that would be better than "making something up" Whoever has this problem maybe cliffy can help you.

Also again whoever has Toyota fleet sales FACTS, i would like to read about them...

Thanks in Advance
-wsn

wsnoble · December 1999

A guy in the seats room wants to know about seat squeeks in Taco. Claims that Toy may be offering a fix. Any ideas?

Thanks
-wsn

mviglianco1 · December 1999

You claim you havnt been on other Topics, I just saw your post in a topic about Tacoma seat complaints where you were trying to say that Edmunds would be freeaing the topic on Monday(yesterday) and that all persons involved should refer to this topic. You are full of s**t. I would not stoop so low as to go to a Ford complaint thread and make references to it here. I thought about it a while back when I felt argumentative but decided not to be like that. But it would have been fun

mviglianco1 · December 1999

The body shop is the Ford bodyshop but I do realize it is probably the insurance companies doing.

sredman1 · December 1999

Just bc it is at the Dealership doesn't mean its ford Run.. Most body shops at the dealership are privatly run and just lease space from the dealership.

cpousnr · December 1999

Well, I TRY to be objective. However, in regard to crash testing, there was just a 70 car pile-up on I25. I saw on the video a Red Ranger in the middle, crumpled right front fender, but otherwise it LOOKED intact with no twisting and at least the right side, cab and total bed seemed intact. Couple this wreck with the 82 car pile-up on I70 a short while ago and you can find a wreck anywhere any time.

Do you want to be in a vehicle that has a higher or lower crash rating when that happens?

I posted earlier the web site where it was stated that the 98 and up Ranger had the frame rails extended to the cab increasing the strength of the overall vehicle a reported 400%. Perhaps that is one reason the Ranger is so much heavier than the Tacoma, by definition more steel should = strength, and I will not get in the argument of density.
Look, opinions aside, both vehicles are REASONABLY equal.
- You want faster acceleration, get a Tacoma or build up a Ranger
- You want lower initial price and multiple agencies reporting quality = to Tacoma, get a Ranger
Independent assessment does mean something to me. You can cite all the performance articles you want, and I will not doubt the content(until I see such OBVIOUS errors as was in the Four Wheeler article)but I WILL consider they are trying to SELL a product not report in comparisons as much a SELLING (read into that they get $$$ compensation for their report)a product.

I debated long before offering opinions in other rooms. It was only to correct misconceptions or outright errors regarding Ford.

In a bit of defense of Vince8, I think at first he was trying to offer real-world facts regarding his purchase. But you can only be harangued so much before you tend to strike back. Sales numbers are important to a point, and independent assessment supports his feelings. Vince, continue to report your experiences and if you find supportive articles, post em. But sales are not everything.

I am sitting at 22.5K and I bought the truck last Jan. I drive it hard and often, it has taken all I can give it and delivered outstanding performance and met all of my expectations, 1 time in the shop for the wiper issue. All I want now is a bull bar and winch.

Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - III

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