Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

jrock65 · April 2004

I kinda agree with lexusguy. Not saying that the CTS-V is a bad car... just not sure if it's in the same class as the E, 5, M, etc.

It's a high performance version of an entry-level luxury sedan, like the S4 and C32. The M3 would go in this class as well, if they ever decided to bring back the sedan version.

lexusguy · April 2004

My point was that the CTS-V gets no interior upgrades from the regular V6 car, and the interior doesnt hold up to $30K, let alone 50+. Where do you think the Chevy 5.7L gets its roots?

E500s and 545i's are the cars you get when you hit that executive status, with your own office and your name on the door. The CTS-V just isnt in that catergory. True some especially well off car nuts may opt for an AMG, or a Motorsport car, but the V isnt really in that catergory either. BMW Motorsport and AMG Gmbh have established a major performance heritage, and are some of the most sought after cars in the world. The "V" is about 5 minutes old, and there's no way they can expect to garner that kind of reputation that quickly. Same with Chrysler's "PVO" and the dozens of other "me too" shops that have cropped up in recent years to try and copy cat Motorsport and AMG. I really dont expect the CTS-V to sell all that well.

loslobos71 · April 2004

hey man, i know plenty of executives and ceo's (myself included) who "have their name on the door" and (On cooperate lease) opted for a Brand new (at the time--2001) Audi A6 2.7t, and thinks that a turbo (or high HP) V6 is much more fun than a V8 (E500, 545i)!

lexusguy · April 2004

In the case of the Audi, it is. The A6 4.2 is slower than the 2.7T, which is one of the reasons that the V8 is getting a significant power bump, and the 2.7T is getting dropped. An E320 isnt more fun than an E500 though.

multiplechoice · April 2004

Did anyone notice that the estimated MSRP for the V8 sport model has increased by about $2000 in the past 2 weeks. Maybe by those going to the Infiniti web site, they are judging interest in their product and pricing accordingly. Hmmm...

cheerioboy26 · April 2004

All of the prices on the infiniti website are unofficial, and used for testing. Originally the prices were high, then on day two or so they dropped by about $3K, and they have risen again. Official pricing won't be out until just before launch - probably early 2005.

carnaught · April 2004

for a higher price. There may be Nissan spys monitoring these boards.

lexusguy · April 2004

My guess is that Nissan spies have their hands full trying to beat the GS and RL. I dont think they're too concerned with a few car guys on a forum.

bartalk2 · April 2004

What would be the turning circle of the new M45 with 18" wheels? Somewhere between the turning circle of a 747 and the Queen Mary II?

The Maxima also with 18" wheels has a whopping turning circle of 44 ft, nearly 10 feet more than the BMW 3 series.

ceric · April 2004

It is decided by wheel base and max front wheel angle. Typical mid-sized sedans do 37 to 39ft. More than 40ft is considered "outrageous!".

Can you believe Lexus RX300 has 41ft! Such a short wheel base also. Any one hear any auto mag review complaining about it? My co-worker owns one. Turning circle is his only dislike about the vehicle.

diego413 · April 2004

Help!

If I am only concern about performance, is there major difference 04 VS 05 M45?

ceric · April 2004

The new M is to be released early 2005 as 06 model. So now, please restate your question.

jrock65 · April 2004

The 2004 M45 goes 0-60 in the high 5 second range. I doubt the 2006 would do much better than that.

I bet there would be an improvement in cornering and handling, however.

lexusguy · April 2004

Yeah the RX is a little wider than I'd necessarily like it to be, but parking isnt usually a major problem for me. Though my wife who drives it most of the time does complain about that as well. The 330 has improved that number by several feet. I believe its something like 37 o 38, even with bigger wheels than the 300. Diego, its hard to tell at this point. From what I saw of the new M at the NYAS, it seemed a little smaller than the current car, so there may be a possible weight reduction, and hopefully some revised gearing, which may lead to at least a small performance upgrade.

davek4 · April 2004

Has anyone seen an "official" spec sheet on the new M45? I realize it is based on the G35 and FX platform, but modified somewhat. Will it be wider and/or longer than either of these vehicles? Moreover, will the new M45 be wider or longer than the current Maxima? Any accurate information or speculation would be appreciated.

lexusguy · April 2004

The M45 is based on a lengthened version of the nissan global FM platform called FM-L. It is bigger than the G, but most likely smaller than the Q. From what I saw of the prototype at NYAS, it looked to be very similar in size to the '05 Acura RL.

cheerioboy26 · April 2004

Specs of the concept.

Wheels/Tires 19-inch wheels and tires
Wheelbase 114.2 inches
Length 192.1 inches
Width 72.8 inches
Height 59.1 inches

davek4 · May 2004

Thanks lexusguy and cherrioboy26 for the information.

The new RL specs (I am not sure where I found these, but possibly the acura.com website) are:

length: 193.5"
width: 72.6"
wheelbase: 110.2"

making the new M45 just over an inch shorter, slightly wider with a four inch longer wheelbase than the new RL. So as lexusguy noted these cars are very similar in size. Lexusguy must have good eyes!

lexusguy · May 2004

Hehe, no, just a good sense of how the industry works. Cars in a specific segment aimed to compete directly with one another are usually very similar in size, though interestingly enough, the GS seems to have grown quite a bit. Most likely because the ES has more interior room than the old car, which doesnt look good.

c3po33 · May 2004

Motor Trend June 2004 issue page 38

Nissan is developing a coupe & a convertible off the upcoming 2005 M45 sedan. Both will be four-seat cars and won't be ready before the 2006 model year.

jfred · May 2004

I have seen the dimensions, but not the weight. Anyone know? Am driving M45 with 7000 100% trouble free miles. Amazing engine. Still not too hot on design, but coming off a trouble filled 3 years in an Audi A6 2.7t, it's minerva.

jfred · May 2004

I absolutely couldn't live with the huge red glass on the rear. But, if smoked, then would be much more acceptable.

c3po33 · May 2004

Who knew the last G35 was so loose?.....Engineers added 3 new crossmembers and 250 spot- and arc-welds. Torsional rigidity goes up 30% which isnt remarkable, but frontal lateral stiffness increases by 1400%. That is not a typo. Infiniti showed us computer simulations of the front ends of the old G35 and new M45, and the old looks like a fish flopping on a boat by comparison.

I do not think my G35 is loose at all quite the opposite, so the M45 must be amazing!!!

ceric · May 2004

If what Autoweek said is true (and, I believe them), then a front end tower bar would do magic on G35.

lexusguy · May 2004

The G35\Skyline, like the current M45, was mid-cycle when we got it. I'm sure it will get a serious suspension upgrade when it is fully redesigned.

nyrascal · May 2004

m45 convertible? If they make it a hardtop, that's my next car!

jrock65 · May 2004

If they do make a M45 convertible, there is no doubt that there will be a coupe version.

Can't wait for a M45 Coupe vs. 645Ci vs. CLK500 comparo, if there ever is one.

daniel5 · May 2004

I've considered the current M45 but may wait until they deliver the 2006 model. Have you, or anybody else, heard anything about where the price might come in? Dan.

cheerioboy26 · May 2004

you can check out all of the UNofficial pricing, including options, at Infiniti.com - look for the M Concept icon and you can build your own. IIRC base price for the v6 is in the high 30s, with awd low 40s. m45 is in the mid40s to start. The prices may change (they have at least once) so just click around and see what you get.

lexusguy · May 2004

I would definitely suggest waiting, the new car is just such a MASSIVE improvement over the current car, which pretty much totally underdelivered.

plina · May 2004

How do you guys feel about the pricing of the new M45? I have a 2003 fully loaded with chrome rims, except for the XM radio which was not available at the time and sticker was $50,195.
I just priced the new one in their website and a fully loaded V8 is almost $60,000 this is almost a $9,000 dollar increase in the car with the same engine and suspension. And worse is that the V8 will not have the all wheel drive option.The v6 AWD will run about $52,000 fully loaded.
I believe that if Infiniti does not dramatically lower the price of this car they will not be able to sell many and will force me to go to another brand.
What do you think?

jrock65 · May 2004

Those prices on the Infiniti site are "teaser" prices that fluctuate by up to $3000 on any given day. Not final yet.

Plus, a fully loaded 2006 M45 will have many things that the 2003 M45 didn't have, such as aero kit, DVD entertainment system, active rear suspension, and lane departure warning system, just for starters.

I expect a typically loaded 2006 M45 (Navi, IntelliCruise, 300 Watt Sound System) to be about $52,000, about $10,000 less than a similarly equipped 545i.

lexusguy · May 2004

Theres absoultey no way a M45 would cost $60,000. Thats E500 prices, and they just simply couldnt sell cars for that much money. You'll never see an Infiniti costing more than a competing Lexus.

wibble · May 2004

Why not? They are really going after different markets. Lexus is positioned more on the luxury side and Infinti more sporty.

saugatak · May 2004

lexusguy is right.

lexus has a better brand than infiniti so lexus can ask for and get higher prices. in the upper luxury markets, it's not about performance or best bang for buck, there's a strong prestige element too.

otherwise why would people pay so much for an MB when the reliability of a lot of its models has sunk below Hyundai?

maybe infiniti's msrp will be equal to a comparable lexus, but then the market will force infiniti to give incentives to bring the actual price down lower.

nyca · May 2004

what are the sales figures on the G35 versus the IS300? prediction - the M will outsell the new GS.

plina · May 2004

All you have to do to get a real quick response from your M45 is turn the VDC switch off and you'll see the difference. The switch is at your bottom left hand side.

plina · May 2004

I own a 2003 M45 and I think is gorgeous it looks like the old time muscle cars. Everywhere I go people ask me about the car, too bad it didn't sell much but I got excluisivity here, I don't want every Tom , Dick and Harry driving my car, I do not like being another face in crowd I like to stand out.

lexusguy · May 2004

And what are the sales figures of the current M45 versus the GS? Yes the G35 is a fantastic car, and along with FX45, basically brought Infiniti back from the dead. However, the current GS is begging for a redesign, and dates back to '98. The M45 was only introduced a few years ago, so it SHOULD be outselling the GS, but it isnt. The situation is almost exactly the same for the IS\G35, just in Infiniti's favor. The IS was brought to the US midcycle, as a Lexus badged Toyota Altezza that Lexus really had no idea how to sell or what to do with. They are just now learning to become a more performance oriented company. When the all new IS hits, in a brand new Lexus platform exclusive sedan\coupe\convertible form, it will give the G35 a serious run for its money. Have you seen the LF-C? Sorry but compared to that a G35 coupe looks pretty weak.

Not that I have anything against Infiniti. In just a few years they have made unbelievable strides, from boring, 3rd tier cars that nobody knew about to C&D headlines, and they've challenged Acura for sales numbers. You'll notice though, that Acura prices its cars below Lexus as well. It's taken Lexus 15 years to get to the position where they can be mentioned in the same sentence as BMW and M-B, and nobody snickers. Acura and Infiniti just arent there yet, and so they have to price more competitively.

ceric · May 2004

Lexus has been very successful in positioning itself as the "luxury" brand. Even its name reminds you of its root. Fighting against an established marketing image is like swimming against current. That is why Lexus is having a hard time with GS and IS, their sporty models. The short answer is ... people who shop for sport sedans less likely consider Lexuses. People who value reliability, comfort, and tranquility go for Lexuses.

It is sometimes not about performance numbers when it comes to selling sport sedans. Just like Lexus is enjoying its success on being luxurious, BMW is still enjoying big profit on selling sport sedans even with Bangled-look and so-so reliability. "Image is everything", they said.

Adding fuel to the fire, how many slowing driving Lexuses do you see everyday on streets or highways? Statistics (actually a survey) show that people think BMW drivers are the fastest drivers on highway, followed by Porsche drivers. Being a spirited driver, you probably wouldn't want to be driving a Lexus, unless like lexusguy said, you want to surprise the BMW driver next to you.... that is fun for some, but not all.

My co-worker, at 28, just bought a G35 sedan. His mom drives a Lexus ES330. He often laughs about how slow his mom drives, and swears to God, he would never buy a Lexus. True, he is young, and may change his mind later. Again, "image is everything".

Personally, "image" does not dictate what I drive, but I can't say it has zero influence on me.

saugatak · May 2004

excellent points.

it's not only that, but lexi aren't really very sporty rides, although it's great being a passenger in 'em.

cheezhed · May 2004

Yup, I have to admit it's more fun being the driver than passenger in my BMW 5 with SP.

BTW, when will the next gen. M's be at the dealer's? Anyone know?

ndmd · May 2004

They will start taking orders in November and the cars will arrive in late Jan to early February. He believes that the M35 will top out at around $50K and the M45 at about $55K. They have been told that 70% will be 35's and 30% 45's. Finally, they have been told that both will be available from day one. I had thought that the 45's were going to arrive later in the yaer, but he said that they had not been told that.

fugafan · May 2004

The interior of the Nissan Fuga was so classy and so very different; very "japanese". I liked the skylight feature, the soft blue dome lights (like in an airplane), the deep blue odometer with red digits (to compliment the blue headlights) and the strips of lights in the door trim. It seems that the concept M 45 did not keep any of that and has an ugly orange tachometer and boring standard moon roof. What a shame!

rctennis3811 · May 2004

I don't think that by keeping all those "gizmos" in the Fuga concept would've let Infiniti to price the M45 where they wanted it. While very nice, most cars don't have every feature that the concept version does. Anyways, I'm satisfied with the way it came out.

fugafan · May 2004

I am happy for you.I don't think it costs much more to make the tachometers blue than it takes to make them orange, but it's a very different look. It would be nice for Infiniti to be a leader and trend setter by being different than just another car.

lexusguy · May 2004

They are using Orange gauges now, so I guess the M had to fit in with that. Even though its not as sexy as the Fuga concept, I still think Infiniti did a fantastic job with the overall interior design. Nissans have been so cost cut and bland lately, it was very refreshing to see them actually try for once. I hope that continues in successive Nissans.

rctennis3811 · May 2004

Yup I totally agree with you.

fugafan · May 2004

That's my whole point - everybody is doing orange gauges. Blue is so much cooler and sexier (especially with blue headlights). Why be a follower and not a leader and trend setter? You you can do it only once; when everybody is doing blue you are following the trend again instead of showing the way; and that goes for the rest of the interior of Fuga as well, as far as I am concerned.

plina · May 2004

I totally agree I have a 2003 M45 and love it but I hat the orange headlights, I wish I could pay to get them blue.
I think that if we all write to Infiniti about the lights it would help.
In the Infiniti website when you click on the M45 concept and build the car they ask for your opinion and I think it's a good way for them to know because they are getting ideas from us.
I have written quite a few of them complaining about the price and also the inability of Infinity to give us AWD for the V8.

Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

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