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Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

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  • dogface5dogface5 Member Posts: 87
    image

    This is an interior pic of the Fuga which is currently on sale in Japan.
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    Noticed on Infiniti website that base price for M45 sport went up from $46K+ to 51K+ in the last month or so. This unfortunately closes the theoretical price advantage it had over its competition.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    That price has changed about 100 times since Infiniti first posted specs on the new M. It is not official pricing.
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    The web site pricing on new models is a device Infiniti uses to test the water as far as pricing goes. With the QX56, they settle on the lowest of the prices posted on the website.
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    The M35 is going to have the 277hp engie from the 2005 G35 autos. Seeing as it's going to weigh in around the 3,700lbs mark, it looks like the car is going to be a little underpowered. Any thoughts?
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    In case anyone hasn't seen them they are posted here;

    http://www.infinitinews.com/infiniti/2006vehicles/infiniti_m/spec- s.shtml
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    Thought these would be of interest as this is the M35/M45 in all but name;

    image

    350XV and 350GT

    image


    image
    image
    image

    350XV

    image

    image
    image
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Not necessarily. I would guess 0-60 to be around 7 seconds, which is average for V6 powered cars in that class. The RL is the exception.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    277HP in this class isn't at all underpowered in its class.

    Cadillac STS V6 - 255HP
    BMW 530i - 225HP
    2006 BMW 530i - est. 268HP
    Mercedes-Benz E320 - 221HP
    2006 Mercedes-Benz E350 - est. 265HP
    Jaguar S-Type 3.0 - 235HP
    Volvo S80 T6 - 272HP
    Audi A6 3.2 - 255HP
    Chrysler 300 Limited - 250HP
    Lexus GS300 - 245HP
    Lincoln LS V6 - 232HP
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    I did a test drive in the new RL. I came back disappointed in it. Great vehicle, over-priced and under-powered for my taste. See my test drive report over there (post#2741) in 2005 RL forum. Now, I am looking forward to the new M45 (non sport). The front end looks great to me in dark colors (blue or black). To me, the rear end takes some getting used to. Anyway, being a BMW 540iA, I have given up on V6 after the test drive of RL. Now I only hope that 45 can be had between $45K to $55K(loaded). Since GS430 also would come out about the same time, I guess I will be test driving both.

    Has anyone test driven an RL here? What is your take on it?

    Lexusguy, how is going? Haven't heard from you in RL forum for a while....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, last time I was there that forum was getting out of control with like 50+ posts a day, so it was too hard to keep up. I did read your test drive comments though, interesting. I can certainly understand your feelings on the V6, there really is no replacement for displacement (other than forced induction, which Honda doesnt appear keen on). However, I think RL will compare very favorably to the rest of the V6 competition, most likely matching the new engines from Mercedes and BMW, and beating Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti. Perhaps a hybrid option in a future RL will make up for some of that down low torque that you just cant get with a 6.
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    Ceric,

    I read this post and was a bit surprised about your RL comments re: you being disappointed...You posted over there within a day of this comment that you had a $500 deposit on the RL. Why would you purchase the car if you were disappointed with an "over-priced and under-powered" vehicle?

    I'm an Infiniti/Nissan guy and am interested in Acura with the TL and RL offerings, just was surprised by your comments when you purchased the RL. I know you were disapppointed because you were expecting a wood steering wheel and trunk mats etc. and seems like the dealer may not be honoring some previous comments to you...is that the cause of your disappointment?
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    "277HP in this class isn't at all underpowered in its class"

    OK. I probably didn't make my point very well. A lot of the internal stuff from Nissan/Infiniti was talking about 300hp so we wereexpecting to see the tuned G356MT lump in there. Seing as the car is going to weigh in around 400lbs heavier than the G35 autos, when doing comparisons, it's going to feel less quick.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Thats to be expected. A 330i is faster than a 530i.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    No. I placed the deposit back in APRIL. The test drive was a slight disappointment (only in straight line acceleration, though). Being a reasonable person, I have made a reasonable offer (hold the salesman to his words). Having more than 20 people on the waiting list, I am sure he will return my deposit. If so, I am back to shopping again.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Also, the 298\260 version of the engine is tuned for the 6MT and its gearing, perhaps it doesnt work as well with the auto and its ratios. It could also be that Infiniti doesnt want the 6 to be too close in power to their 340hp V8
  • dogface5dogface5 Member Posts: 87
    How do you know that the M35 will have 277hp, because the 2005 G35 Auto will have 280 hp, I don't think that Infiniti would give M35 less hp.
  • wibblewibble Member Posts: 569
    Because the info Infiniti has given to me says so. The M35 has a longer wheelbase than the G35 so the 3 ponies might get eaten up in the slightly longer length of the exhaust. As you say, they are going to be identical powerplants. It wouldn't make any economic sense for it to be different from the G35 autos.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    I bet M35 hp is at least 290.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Actually, "under power" is relative. People who are used to V8 would probably find the new RL a bit less torquey than they would like. Otherwise, it is certainly capable and first-rated among all V6/I6 3.0-3.5L alternatives.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Agreed, its funny that people are saying the RL is weak. Compare it to the E320, 530i, and GS300. Now which one is weak?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Guys, wibble is right - Infiniti says 277HP...atleast in preproduction form. This may change however in as time draws closer to launch.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    In Japan, Nissan Fuga (Infiniti M35/45 in USA) was announced.
    2.5L: 210ps/27kgm
    3.5L: 280ps/37kgm
    4.5L: 350ps/??kgm

    For some pictures, see here
    more Fuga news

    Scroll down to the bottom, check the links.
    You may also use worldlingo.com to translate those pages. They are fairly slow.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Sounds about right...but Japan specs usually have a couple more horses than the US version.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Well, Japan use PS, USA use SAE net HP. Different ways of measuring horse power. You may do more research on google but 1 PS ~= 0.97 SAE hp (roughly speaking).

    Fuga 250GT and 350GT are released in Japan. 450GT would be released in Japan about the same time as USA (March, 2005).
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I love the looks of this car with one small exception: the broad chrome strip that adorns the top of the hood where it meets the grille. Lose that and I think the car would be gorgeous.

    Does anyone have specs on the interior? I am hoping that the M seats are a bit wider and less bolstered then on the new RL.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Hard to tell, I think you'd really have to sit in one to get a feel of the seats.
  • dogface5dogface5 Member Posts: 87
    legendman, you read my mind. That chrome strip gotta go it takes away from the front. Other than that, I like it a lot.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Found weight information of M35 (Fuga in Japan)
    2wd: 1650-1680kg (3630-3696lb)
    awd: 1720kg (3784lb)

    Note that Acura RL is listed in Japan as Honda Legend with weight 1760-1800kg (3870-3960lb). In US, RL is listed at 3960lb (curb weight).

    Based on that info, a safe bet put M35-AWD at about 3750-3800lb (curb weight), and M35-RWD at about 3650-3700lb.

    No info on the M45 yet since it will be released in Japan the same time as in US. My guess is about 3850lb since a V8 is usually about 100-150lbs heavier than a 3.5L V6.

    Note: US curb weight is defined as the weight of a vehicle with all standard equipments plus full tank of gas and complete lubricant, etc. A no-option vehicle like RL is at a disadvantage. i.e. If you load up M35-AWD with options, the weight may increase. Just FYI.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Legendman, you read my mind. That chrome strip gotta go it takes away from the front. Other than that, I like it a lot.<

    Why don't we write to Infiniti and suggest that? They seem a lot more open to input than Acura does.

    Anybody else dislike the wide, horizontal chrome strip on the hood that meets the grille?
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    While I have no opinion against the strip, you certainly can write your feedback through M-Concept web site at infiniti.com. I have done my share several times already. My main request have been pulling upgrade audio system and sunshade out of tech(or premium) package. Both deserve in journey package.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Infiniti (or Nissan Motor Company) is pretty good at listening to their customers. I read somewhere that most of the interior improvements of the 05 G35 were based on customer feedback.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    From keynote speaker of Infiniti at Anaheim auto show:

    The M45 features a 340-horsepower 4.5-liter DOHC V8, the same advanced engine that powers our flagship Infiniti Q45.

    The M35 is powered by a 280-horsepower 3.5-liter DOHC V6, part of our award-winning VQ engine series used in the G35 and FX35. Both engines are mated to a standard 5-speed automatic transmission.

    AWD is ATTESA-ETS, same as the one used on FX.
  • valuebuyervaluebuyer Member Posts: 24
    In all the talk (here and on the RL Board) on this 'competitor' to the upcoming M and GS, no one has spotted the 'Honda price grab' in Canada. The RL (well equipped) is going for about $50K USD - today about $60K CAD. Yet Honda Canada has tried to put the squeeze on consumers in Canada by jacking the price another $10K CAD - to $70K - even with F/X running in favor of an even lower price than $60K (insult to injury). Honda wants to sell "only" 600 of these RLs this year. If this is serious, that means some dumb buyers in Canada are subsidizing this attempt to make the pedestrian RL a 'class breakthrough' to the Mercedes/Bimmer price points. Unless you're an idiot, at $70K, you're probably better off with a 5-series, E320 or even STS - or, just wait to see the M/GS pricing. If Infiniti and Lexus are smart, they'll jump on the Acura extortion here, and just slightly undercut the Honda Canada overpricing. There are an awful lot of segment watchers here who groaned, and dumped the RL from their list on the wonky pricing alone.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Legend in Japan is priced comparably as in US. Therefore, there is no reason for the extra $10K over-charge. The only reasonable explanation is the low sales volume. Even that is a far stretch.

    If you are interested in buying a luxury sports sedan in $50K range, March/April 2005 would be a great time to cross shop/test drive all alternatives that appeal to you. For now, my heart is set on a black M45 (starts at $45K, mildly loaded at $49K - same price as Acura RL with V6 and SH-AWD). Between V8 and SH-AWD, I will pick V8 any day. I live in sunny California, and my house is not deep in the mountains.

    BTW, Nissan Fuga (our new M) out sells Legend 3 to 1 in Japan. Both are doing very well. Much better than their original sales projections.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I attended the California Auto Show in Anaheim last week. The Acura RLs they had on the floor had sticker prices of $49,700 -- it appears they have raised the price.

    Personally I think that the car is awfully small inside, not to mention the trunk. Back seat room was not great,

    The lack of wood on the floor mounted console is, IMO, cheap on Acura's part. In the lighter color interior, the wood's absence is very apparent.

    For what it's worth, Acura had a pretty lousy spot on the convention floor, way in the back. They only had 2 people on duty, who literally did nothing but stand behind a counter and hand out skimpy brochures. Meanwhile over at Infiniti and Lexus there was a lot of buzz, perhaps due to the new cars coming out in the spring. Seemed to me that Acura was coasting ... resting on its laurels.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,575
    Once the new M Infinitis are out next Spring, I'm sure the Acura dealers will be willing to deal.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    It was a similar situation at the NYAS. Acura had a tiny spot shoved way in the back, and they basically had the RL, and TL A-spec on dispay. In contrast, Lexus and Infiniti had huge displays with large portions of their entire line up, and big rotating platforms for the GS430 and M45, with women in fancy outfits doing big presentations on the cars. The Lexus and Infiniti got huge crowds. The RL did not.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    I drove a 2004 GS300 today lexusguy. It was definitely weak. Not enough hp, torque; lots of front sway. Having said that, the total Lexus buying experience is so superior to Acura and others that it is palpable. The quality and class that Lexus exudes emanates from the building's exterior facade all the way out to the street.

    What do you think about the 2005 GS430 and the 2006 models? I actually prefer the older styling to the new 2006, which I saw at the Anaheim Car Show last week.

    How do you think they will compare to the new M?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The GS300 is definitely starved for enough power. The car is just too heavy for the Supra engine. The GS430 would take away your complaints about power, however, if you dont like the GS300's handling, the 430's isnt any better. Be prepared to spend thousands on new coilovers, sway bars, and braces if you want to turn it into a race car. The platform is now 7 years old, and its just been outclassed by the competition. Personally I like the 2006 much better, both inside and out, and it seems like handling will be greatly improved. Infiniti's M has greatly improved rigidity over the already excellent handling G35, so the M should be a world class handler. I just dont think the current GS is a good buy, not unless you want to pick up a used '01 430 in the low 30s.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Personally I like the 2006 much better, both inside and out, and it seems like handling will be greatly improved. Infiniti's M has greatly improved rigidity over the already excellent handling G35, so the M should be a world class handler.<

    Very helpful advice Lexusguy - thank you. Looks like I will be waiting until Spring, for either the new M35/45 or the 2006 GS. Any thoughts as to whether or not the new M35 would have enough HP and torque for an exhilarating driving experience without breaking the bank?

    Separately, this rumor of the RLs SH-AWD locking up is disconcerting to say the least. Does anyone know anything more about this? Is this just a rumor or anecdote bouncing around the web, or is there a bonafide news source/web site story out there?
  • gbabalukgbabaluk Member Posts: 70
    Hi Value Buyer;
    I have a response from Honda Canada for all Canadians to Read about the RL pricing. I will be posting it on the RL board as well. I was the one who started the discussion on the RL board and I will wait for the M45 as I already own a G35 and the M should be a KILLER:
    When we price a vehicle for the Canadian market, we look at Canadian market
    conditions -- specifically, the competitive position of the product from a
    feature and content perspective as our primary means of setting the price.
    We also look at competitive sales volumes and our projected volumes as
    other factors.

    The U.S. price is not a factor in our decision-making. In fact, in many
    instances we do not know their final price before we make our pricing
    decision. As well, there are always differences between U. S. and Canadian
    vehicles that make direct comparisons impossible. For example, the RL for
    Canada has ventilated seats and headlight washers as well as three-year
    complimentary maintenance that the U.S. does not offer.

    To reiterate, we price our Canadian products for sale in Canada and, as
    such, focus only on Canadian market conditions and our own business
    objectives -- not on the U.S. (which is a completely different market with
    completely different market dynamics and complexities).

    Hope that helps.

    No it does not.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The '06 M35 sounds like it will be a hoot. The engine is essentially the same as the one in the '05 G35 automatic, 280hp and 270lb.ft, which should be plenty. A V6 RWD Sport with the Journey and Tech packages has very similar features to the RL, and the cost should be roughly the same. Things the RL dosnt have that M Sport does are more seat adjustments, 19" wheels, intelligent cruise control, and Infiniti's lane departure warning system, an industry first that not even Lexus or Mercedes offer yet.
  • neo6neo6 Member Posts: 24
    I saw the new M45 at the South Fla auto show this weekend. The M45 is a better looking car hands down over the RL or the Lexus. The bummer was they would not let you sit in this one (it was on one of those turntables). The RL was there but not attracting any crowds. For anyone 6' or taller, it seems really tight and the lines are not very attractive. The technology and features of the M45 definitely make it tops but they've got to keep the price under $50K to be competitive or you start getting into the BMW/MB range. I will definitely wait until March to make my decision.
  • midsizesportmidsizesport Member Posts: 1
    how can you possibly claim the U.S. market has no influence on Canada's pricing....for 2005 and U.S. decides to increase the RL by 13%...and the exact same car in Canada...decides it should raise the price by 35%??? If that is not high way robbery.....Tell me what is.....Audi is no better...40k U.S. vs 61k CDN...cmon..everyone is a crook these days!! CDN $ = 1.196 U.S. !!
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    The bummer was they would not let you sit in this one (it was on one of those turntables). The RL was there but not attracting any crowds. For anyone 6' or taller, it seems really tight

    neo6,
    Here is the interior room comparison between M and RL

    M/RL:

    ---- Front Rear
    Head 39.6/38.5 37.8/37.2
    Shld 58.2/58.5 56.9/56.1
    Hip- 55.1/55.1 53.9/54
    Leg- 44.2/42.4 37.3/36.3

    As you can see, M has more head room and leg room.
    The 4 inches of longer wheel base really helps.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yowza! A few inches is actually quite a bit when it comes to interior room, but the leg room differences between the cars is just massive. The RL really is small, 36" is like a 5 series.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    1. Nissan Fuga
    2. Toyota Isis (small 7-seat minivan)
    3. Honda Legend

    However, Legend won the Japanese COTY award for its innovative SH-AWD.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The RL was reviewed in this month's C&D. They too raved about the SH-AWD, but weren't impressed with the rather bland styling, lack of interior room, and 13cu.ft of trunk space.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Where did you find those figures?
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