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Comments
People are paying an 8K premium and are getting 25 mpg. My CRD does better than that.
I don't have this same tool on my VW Jetta TDI; yet am able to get a range of 44-62 mpg. So it should be fairly obvious the on board tool makes it a bit easier when folks are trying to extract the maxium mpg.
It is also particularly distressing that (i.e., one) Prius owner/s got 18,000 miles per set of tires!! I got 56,000 from my last set of Corvette Z06 tires !!!!???? More to the nexus is: I project 100-132k from the Jetta TDI tires.!!?? If I had this information before I looked at the Prius, I would have rejected it out of hand. Man this thing eats tires!!
That generalization about Prius eating tires has no merit. Any poorly maintained tire on any vehicle will wear out quickly.
JOHN
If Toyota knows this is a common complaint, why aren't they advising the dealers on repair procedures or driver training? The OEM tires on my Suburban were still good at 7.5 years and 47k miles. Anything less than that on the Prius OEM tires would be unacceptable. It is about half the weight of the Suburban. The lousy OEM tires on the Prius is one of the biggest complaints. Toyota should pony up with a little better tire.
To wit,it is interesting that you are only getting 8709 miles per 1/32 in on such a premuium priced and much longer wearing tire. This would project you getting less than the 90,000 mile mileage warranty!? Plus the Prius weighs less than the Jetta TDI.
(Michelin Hydroedge's, as you probably know are very well rated) Also the Hydroedge is T rated vs H rated for the Jetta.
On the Jetta TDI with GY LS-H oem tires of 360 utoq, it is coming out to be app 17,000 per 1/32 in. This would convert to a projected 136,000 miles. Actually I would be thrilled to get between 100-110k. So you are getting half as much wear on a 2x longer wearing tire tread than I am. Well rated, these tires are NOT. I have not had the tires balanced nor have I had an alignment (outside of having the delivering dealer verify alignment compliance)
It is funny how you say I am generalizing and yet do not list what you actually got on your OEM tires.
Also I was very upfront on what/why I would have used the information. So you are generalizing about what you perceive me to be generalizing AND not what I had actually said. So given your and my numbers, I stand by what I have said.
While I do not like the notion of folks suing for the above stated reason/s, it will be interesting to see if Prius owners' win their class action suit for their Prius' failing to achieve on a consistent basis, the mpg EPA rating.
*ACTUALLY WHAT THE EPA GOT ON THEIR TEST*
It's not actionable if it's true, which in this case it is.
In the lab, EPA can duplicate these results.
Does not mean it can reach that in the real world.
Remember, everyone INCLUDING THE EPA knows the test is faulty.
88% of vehicles do not reach EPA numbers....
Green hybrid website with 390 Prius II owners reporting their mileage paint a less than great picture. Out of those 390 owners only 24 are getting the EPA mileage. No one has shown proof that the tests were NOT done by Toyota. The lady that sent me an email from the EPA said it was not possible to tell if the EPA had done their own test on the Prius. By contrast a much higher percentage of Honda Hybrid drivers are able to get the EPA estimate. I think that Toyota is safe from any lawsuit with all the disclaimers on the window sticker. They are not safe from bad publicity. The media loves to write about bad stuff.
That data has always been readily available.
Here is the detail link again.
JOHN
For the 2nd time, I am specifically asking for the data on the OEM tires. I did read and amply understood on the first reading of your post that you UPGRADED your tires to the Michelin Hydroedge. I looked for the data on oem tires in your ramblings amidst the data and comments but it does not pop out at me. So at the tire upgrade mileage of xx,xxx, you had x/32 in left on the oem tires?
And for that matter, you drew a conclusion without revealing how. Where is your detail stating 1/32 of should last for XXX miles based on XXX treadwear rating?
Without that info, the data itself has no context.
As for my OEMs at 16,000 miles, they had lots & lots of miles left... only roughly 2/32 had been worn off. With my HydroEdges, I have no clue. The "third" comment was just a guess. Since the tires currently wet and sitting in 14F degrees, I couldn't care less about measuring right now. Check much later, they are still too new.
JOHN
Without that info, the data itself has no context. "
Which I would whole heartedly agree, especially since you refuse categorically to provide it.
So if the Michelin Hydroedge is in your words "an upgrade", then I would assume you got less than the app 8700 miles of wear per 1/32 in on the ome tires.
I do indeed understand why you do not wish to put it in (any) context.
"Your generalization has been revealed!"
Again, I'm not the one attempting to generalize.
All I did was provide specific data for a specific circumstance.
Stop assuming and give us the data you have drawn your conclusions with... like what quantifies as "normal" and "too quick" for tire life.
JOHN
So why do you refuse to state this data?
"Stop assuming and give us the data you have drawn your conclusions with... like what quantifies as "normal" and "too quick" for tire life."
Actually it is YOU that is doing all the assuming. I have in a prior post stated EXACTLY that....and more. Not to confuse you with the math, but; is 17,000 miles per 1/32 in GREATER or lesser than 8700 miles per 1/32 in?
Circular defective reasoning seems to be your forte!!??
If I were very inclined to buy a Prius, I would be severely dis inclined after talking with you.
....But if you make an ugly woman your wife
A-you'll be happy for the rest of your life
An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time
She'll always give you peace of mind
....
Cheers,
MidCiow
Just like many women, MidCow. You're not going to tell us that you married an ugly woman to get a good meal, are you? Heck, my wife is gorgeous and can "function" in the kitchen just fine, thank you. And I'll bet there are plenty of good-looking gals out there that can think with their brains, too. So, to say that you can't have a good-looking hybrid is absurd. Lexus is about to release their hybrid sedan, and it's not too bad. Mercedes has announced some plans, and the domestics are already at work. Almost EVERY Toyota will be available as hybrid eventually. There is no doubt that there will be more attractive hybrids in the future.
MidCow, I hope your wife (if one would put up with you)doesn't read your post. (Just kidding, dude)!!
Have F-U-N!!!!!
TagMan
My response has repeatedly been to ask why you claimed Prius eats tires.
There is simply no data to support that wear is accelerated by the hybrid. That very same OEM tire was used on the previous model of Corolla and the replacement miles were pretty much the same... proving it to be "normal", not "too quick" as you claimed.
JOHN
So for example in comparison with a Honda Civic with a 320 UTOQ tire, I am getting wear of app 7000 per 1/32 in . In comparison with the Jetta TDI of 17,000 per 1/32 in (360 UTOQ) the Civic EATS tires. So if you carry that out, one can expect 136,000 miles vs 49,000 miles.
As everyone on this forum knows the following statement from the referenced article is false:
Deborah H. in Louisville, Kentucky is angry. "I feel there was false advertising by Toyota stating there was 50 miles per gallon on the highway and 60 miles per hour in the city driving my Toyota Prius hybrid," she wrote
I know that this never happens but what if.... the writer was 'provided' a prewritten article from some well-intentioned source interested trying to stem the tide so to speak. Hey did you hear about the falsified uranium sources. These things do happen when the stakes are high enough.
We've sold nearly 500 Prius' and none has been even one dollar above sticker. IMHO this story doesnt pass the BS test.. sounds bogus.. as in planted.
The tires from Yokohama on the original 2001/02 Prius were too soft for the weight of the battery. They were all replaced by Toyota if the customers wanted them so. As you probably know tires on any vehicle are the only part not warranteed by the automaker. Toyota replaced them anyway when requested.
On the Gen2 Prius the tires are the same as those on the base Corolla and Civic. No special comments. It's a non-issue but your concern is noted.
So what did they replace them with?
"On the Gen2 Prius the tires are the same as those on the base Corolla and Civic"
What oem tires come with these two cars? For example my Civic came with Dunlop SP FE 20. This is probably one of THE WORST oem tires I have ever gotten on a new car. But on the other hand it is very hard to complain about the fuel mileage I get on this vehicle. After break in, 36-41 mpg. Of course it remains to be seen what the next set of tires will do in the MPG department.
I can, as I wish, get 35 mpg, 45 mpg, 55 mpg and 65+ mpg for extended distances. It's entirely up to me and traffic. In my 150 mi daily commute I hit all of these for stretches of up to 10 mi min. In every case I'm doing the speed limit or slightly above it. ( I really was stopped on the 2nd trip home for going 11 mi over. The nice lady gave me a warning ).
YMMV
Gen2 OEM tires?
....run downstairs to look..... Goodyear Integrity P185/65R15..
At the first opportunity I always switch out whatever OEM tires I get for Michelins.
Actually with 39,600 miles per year (commute only!!??) you are a perfect candidate for a TDI!
Funny about the 'behavior mod' comments. You guys should sell Prius'. Ever since they came out in 2001, I sold the first in our area, I've presented the instantaneous consumption display as a 'biofeedback' means to help the Prius 'teach' the new owner to drive more efficiently. It does work.
The progressive mpg ratings are not consecutive in my daily drive although the 35 reading is always first as the vehicle gets limbered up. The first inning for this starter is always the hardest.
For the commute home, with the prevailing weather and mostly downhill, the mph readings for the 5 min segs are something like:
35, 45, 50, 50, 65+, 65+, then 50-52 for next 8-10 segs @ ~60mph, then 55, then 80+ for the final minutes in our neighborhood @25 mph - all on EV mode.
I find it very speed-dependent once the vehicle is warmed up. It also depends on the conditions also. This goes back to the awareness comments also.
Into the weather or with the prevailing weather affects mileage 5-10% Differences in elevation have a similar effect. This is obvious stuff but in 20 mpg vehicles who cares. In 50 mpg vehicles the effects are multiplied because the effect is a constant percentage on a significantly larger variable. Going home from a 200' elevation to sea level - downhill almost all the way - as opposed to going the other way has maybe another 5-10% effect. It does for all vehicles it's just more noticeable with the feedback and with a high mpg vehicle, including the TDI .
You'll be pleased to know that the Prius does extremely well in the event of a crash.
http://tinyurl.com/ca9sq
Works best with IE ----ENJOY!!
The Prius has more room, better acceleration and IMO a better ride. Those were the deciding factors for me. The HCH is certainly a welcome addition to the US market.
Here's the link to Edmund's recent comparison of the Prius and '06 Honda Civic Hybrid:
link title
If the link doesn't work, copy and paste this address in your browser and hit "go": (if that till doesn't do it, let me know)
http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/category/cat.HondaCivicHybrid
The review will credit both vehicles accordingly, specifically the Prius is a bit quicker with a cargo advantage due to the hatchback, but the review will show that the Honda handles better, looks better, and importantly gets better fuel economy. I agree with the editor . . . both good choices, but, I would also pick the HONDA!
Have F-U-N!!
TagMan
I can now report that the final numbers for the Prius and Civic Hybrid (after driving to San Francisco and back from LA) resulted in better MPG numbers for the Prius. Interestingly, on the drive up the Civic seemed to be doing better (mostly highway driving). But in San Francisco the Prius did better, and the increased power (from the electric motor) really helped out on the hills in S.F., giving the Prius much better mileage up there than Civic. An advantage the Civic didn't recover on the trip back.
Don't forget that the Prius is noticeably quicker [note: they found it to be about 2 seconds quicker 0-60], so quicker and better MPG (48 Prius, 42 Civic Hybrid) are relatively indicative of the final finishing order in this test...
All of us still like the Civic Hybrid a lot, and still think it is the more fun car to drive with better design (in and out). I'm sure there will be plenty of customers for both, and all of them will be happy with their purchase.
Thanks, backy!
TagMan
And you know that to be a fact... how?
If I were to buy a hybrid, I would get the Prius because I think it is the best fit for my needs, particularly the hatchback configuration and the extra room in the back seat. I almost took delivery of one in '04 but decided to go with a low-buck alternative instead, since I don't drive enough miles to make it financially justifiable and I was strapped for cash at the time. I'm glad to see that Honda has improved the Civic Hybrid, e.g. adding electric-only operation at low speeds. But it wouldn't make sense for me to buy one if I wanted a Civic, again because I don't drive enough to make up for the large price difference between a ICE-only Civic, which gets great fuel economy in its own right, and a Civic Hybrid.
It's no secret that you and "backy" like the Prius quite a bit, but it's also no secret that while I think it's a technological pioneer of it's own right, I could never bring myself to actually own something that looks like THAT. Don't take it personal, because it's OK with me if you LOVE the thing. I just don't have an agenda. (You know what I mean, F1?) BTW, at the car show I sat in the back seat of the Prius, and found plenty of legroom, but I couldn't sit up without hitting my head. I'm 6'1", and I noticed a number of other guys about my height having the same issue at the show. Let's be fair about this car. It's got some great things going for it, but it's got its faults, too. And, LOTS of folks think it looks unusual or peculiar (I wont use the UGL- word . . . whoops, I just did.) So, don't be overly defensive of your royal Prius. It's an economy car, and while it gives a lot of bang for the buck, you can only expect so much.
Another GREAT point! I believe the std. ICE Civic gets 30 city and 38/40 Hwy (manual/automatic). I agree with you that it DOES indeed make sense to get that vehicle over the hybrid (and over the Prius, too, IMO). It's a bargain by comparison, and . . . you can actually get a sunroof, which hybrid buyers are forbidden!!!!! Imagine that!!! Gotta love that sunshine!
Thanks,
TagMan