Audi A3

kyfdx · April 2005

You know.. I was going to qualify that.. Since the new ones have X-drive..

So, I guess if I were looking for AWD, I might consider both.. But, if just looking at the BMW, I'm not likely to get AWD, while if I were just looking at the Audi, I would have to have it..

Not to stray too far off topic... but, I'll take that 130i right now...

wale_bate1 · April 2005

The 130 does raise my BP potentially. That engine in that size of package with that heritage of handling... mmmmmm, Yummy!

But I would definitely forego the AWD in favor of RWD in that scenario. Of course, based on my geographic location, you can understand why, eh?

skinnydog · April 2005

I wouldn't write of this car just because is is from wheel drive. I have a 2002 A4 and the A3 is more fun to drive. The rear suspension was really put together right and it shows in the handling. I got to take it alone for a test drive and of course that meant the fun factor went way up. I just wouldn't want to ever buy this test drive model. A lot of redline for a car that never had a proper break in.

I also drove the S40 T5 AWD and they are very comparable, but for normal non winter driving I would give the edge to the A3. The S40 is also basically a front wheel drive until the front tires slip and only then does it shift into AWD. If you really floor it or drive it hard through corners you can get the AWD to engage, but it's basically a front wheel drive.

The problem for this car really is the price, not the base price but the price once you start to add options. The heated seats should be a standard not an option or a much more reasonably priced option. When this car gets well above the price of the Acura TSX it's just hard to see it as a success.

BTW, they won't be leasing many of them. My lease on the A4 is up in a couple of weeks. The new A4 is priced too high for a 200 hp car and the lease terms on the A3 are terrible. I was told at Audi of Nashua NH that the residual value on a 15K 36 month least will be 51% and the money factor .003 which translates to an interest rate of 7.2% Are they insane?? Who would lease one at that rate?

I really wanted to stay with Audi (I've been driving them for the last 7 years), but I'm moving on.

ivan_99 · April 2005

I may be wrongbut I think the Volvo and the A3 use the same AWD.

I think they both use the Haldex AWD.

I think the Audi still calls it their Quattro, but since there is no Quattro on a transverse layout they used the Haldex system.

corvette · April 2005

What was the electornically limited redline? I only ran it to just below the red markings (6500?), once it was fully warmed up.

kyfdx · April 2005

Brand-new models always have terrible lease deals... If the car doesn't sell, or it gets a few model years older, the lease deals will get better..

Just look how good the lease deals on the outgoing A4 were in February...

dhanley · April 2005

Yes, the a3 and s40 use the same AWD system, but the a3 is FWD only until the 3.2L arrives.

dave

stickguy · April 2005

Too bad. I was hoping the initial models would launch a little slow (no Quatro and all) and they would have a too good to pass up intro lease. If not, I won't be making an impulse purchase on one of these anytime soon.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

I think for the risk they're taking with this car, they really ought to have a great lease rate up front. They can insist on no cap reductions and still have an incentive in place, and post some serious sales numbers.

I fear that if this baby doesn't fly out of showrooms here, the plug will be pulled and yet one more hot hatch will be unavailable to us.

stickguy · April 2005

Create a demand (even if artificial) for the FWD model. That would create the buzz so sales will really click when the V6 and AWD show up in the fall.

I will be happy to take one for the team and sign up for a nothing down lease with a modest payment. I don't care if Audi decides to dump the first few thousand for no profit, just to get them on the street.

Frankly, this car is so nice that it will likely sell by word of mouth from initial owners, and people seeing them on the street. But, if sales start real slow (due to dealers holding out for full sticker +), they may be in a world of hurt.

I am supposed to get a call from the salesperson when a skyroof shows up in the next few weeks (hopefully). When I'm in looking at it, it will give me a chance to look at lease info.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

We'll want a review!

That's an option (glass in the roof) I usually feel very comfortable bypassing completely, but this time the execution of the Sky looks good and I like the concept.

stickguy · April 2005

is a minimum requirement for me. I can't quite get a convertible to work as my only car, and I did the Miata thing for a qhile (as a toy), but I have to be able to open up some of the roof to let the sun shine in.

Of course I will post comments on it. I think it is the same type of set up as on my Scion tC, hopefully with the creaking!

donthegreek · April 2005

Does anybody know if the Quattro will be available in the 2.0 engine? I know it is with the bigger engine.

andys120 · April 2005

I may be wrongbut I think the Volvo and the A3 use the same AWD.

I think they both use the Haldex AWD.

I think the Audi still calls it their Quattro, but since there is no Quattro on a transverse layout they used the Haldex system.

I bel;ieve you are right Ivan. For marketing reasons Audi sells the Haldex equipped TT and A3 as Quattro but it's not the Torsen-based layout used in the bigger Audis w longwise engines. It's in fact the same system used in Volvos. I think you're also correct in assuming it defaults to FWD in stead of the 50/50 default in the "real" Quattro AWD.

corvette · April 2005

Well, I priced a 2006 325i, equipped like I would want it, compared to an A3, equipped like I would want it. Because I would take leatherette in the A3, were it offered, but won't take cloth, I had to compare a leather A3 to a leatherette 325i. The A3 priced out at $29ish with metallic paint, stick shift, premium or sport package (to get leather), open sky roof, and cold weather package. The 325i is near the same zipcode at $32ish for a base model with the cold weather package and metallic paint (leatherette and sunroof are standard). For nearly the same price, I think I prefer an honest-to-goodness RWD sport sedan, and I also think BMW's reliability is historically better than Audi's.

venus537 · April 2005

$3k isn't chump change to me. how much more would you save without that silly sky roof option? you don't get that on the BMW.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Only the 1.8T has been problematic recently, unless I'm mistaken. As far as reliability goes, I don't think there's a hair to split between BMW and Audi...

dl7265 · April 2005

On the Way home from the Dallas Auto Show this evening I decided to stop by my local Audi dealer to see if they ever moved the A4 I was considering prior to placing my order for a E90 325i(being shipped). When I thought I saw a A4 Avant after getting closer I realized it was the A3. I did not realize they were even out. They had 2 black, and the New Metallic color with the multi spoke wheels and manual. Looks like a pretty fun car, not too mention room for Mountain bike and dog. There was also one DSG with the roof option. After setting in 100 + cars at auto show I can say the rear seat design looks for much more useful foot room than most the models I tested,Including the E90 unfortunatly thats still very tight. I may go drive a DSG to see what all the fuss is about. I too wonder compaired to say a Subie, or even Golf, how at 30+ it will fare. Im not sure the hatch/wagon business is real high in the Dallas market.

DL

kyfdx · April 2005

I think there might be a whole head of hair there.. Just from anecdotal evidence..

stickguy · April 2005

the sky roof is $1,100. A moonroof is standard on the BMW (at least it is in '05).

Actually, I would be perfectly happy with a normal moonroof on the A3 for less $$. Less likely to give you problems (noises or leaks) down the road.

corvette · April 2005

***I would be perfectly happy with a normal moonroof on the A3 for less $$.***

Ditto, or a normal moonroof standard. The actual opening on the Open Sky roof isn't that big, judging from the brochure, but I think Audi would still want close to $1000 for a normal sunroof.

stickguy · April 2005

is like the glass roof on my Scion tC. The moonroof opening itself is normal size, but the rear seat gets a skylight, and the all glass looks cool from the outside.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Yeah, I doubt it would be any more problematic than any typical factory moonroof. Funny, I wouldn't check the box for a typical moonroof (though every car I've had since '87 has had one anyway), but a grand for for this here sky thang doesn't seem to phase me in the least!

Can't explain that one!

Dear Audi:

I want to play with the configurator. Now. Get on that, would you please?

Thanks ever so,
Wale

dhanley · April 2005

It's not a hair split between the 3-series and the a4. The 3 is more reliable and longer lasting, too.

If the 325 is $3k more than the a3 2.0T, you will in all probability get that back in resale.

The a3 is not a screaming bargian; i think the reason to get it is because you really like it. There is a place for premium hatches, i think.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

OK, you roundel-huggers!

I still think the A4's problems (recently) have more to do with the VW base plant and its issue's than any inherent build quality problems, but hey!

By gum, I'm hopin' and prayin' there's a solid place here for hot hatches!

kyfdx · April 2005

I hope so, too... Even if I don't want an A3 (and probably don't at those prices), I hope it is a roaring success...

That way, maybe I get the small car that I want..

sunilb · April 2005

now, if they (VW) brought over the 5-door GTI loaded for ~ $22K we'd have something!

corvette · April 2005

If we get the 5-door, 2.0T Golf, it will be more like $28K loaded...

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Don't need it unless it's 4motion.

FWD me no likey unless I have to.
}-]

sunilb · April 2005

for $6K-$8K less than AWD A3 or RWD 1-series, I could be seriously tempted.

Back on topic... the A3 was a car that I was really looking forward to it, but the $25K base price is not useful given that a "base" car is really stripped (this must be a German thing: to not provide any equipment in base cars... great for letting you order your car exactly like you want, but makes things pricey and possibly more complicated from a manufacturing perspective).

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Well, certainly valid I think but there are definitely multiple perspectives on the option game. I know a few posters round here that get sweaty with anticipation of a stripper (car that is). Some folks would like it well-turned, but not overly equipped. I've never been fond of the Japanese-inspired game of packaging personally. And Honda's take is utterly fascinating: you will take it as we offer it - EOS! Frankly that seems more Prussian than optioning to the gills!

I don't recall the option sheet on the A3 that was posted, but things like having to get heated seats in order to get, like, auto-dimming mirrors tick me off. Ditto having to take, say, I-drive to get a NAV. ;-} I've used cruise control twice in my life; don't want it, but I have zero choice at virtually any price level now.

I never anticipated paying less than $30K for an A3 to my liking. Part of that reasoning is that the car seems so close to what I drive now, and it stickered at just under $36K, though the lease offer subsidized a fair amount of real cost (icing on the cake).

On AWD: if I'm not buying AWD, I've got other cards to play than the A3, regardless of the cost. As far as a 130 goes, for me $6K or so is a reasonable price to get serious RWD, BMW handling and that engine, assuming the rest of the car is up to snuff!

Then again, I got my latest R&T yesterday, and the new TT (hatch) may just be the bees knees, especially if the reworked, rear-drive defaulting Quattro is in it...
]-}

dhanley · April 2005

Neither the a3 or the tt is a torsen AWD system. They use haldex ( is there an echo in here? ). Torsen is the one that is being reworked with a RWD bias. You really couldn't ( or wouldn't ) do that with haldex, it wouldn't make sense. Haldex is basically FWD with a shaft being driven by the FD shaft and carrying some power to the rear, WHEN the frons begin to slip, using a computer controlled mechanical clutch. Torsen uses a central shaft that carries power to the front and rear axles and it's a very mechanical system.

So, the a3/tt quattro is basically a FWD car with a shaft carrying torque to the rear when it's rally needed.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

No, we got it Dave, but the next TT is a complete rework isn't it? Hoping for Torsen am I, given the talk from certain former BMW personnel.

As long as the back comes on line when you stand on it, it's a boost over FWD simple, IMO.

dewey · April 2005

"and the new TT (hatch) may just be the bees knees,"

That certainly got my attention!!

BUT what is the point of an A3 when there is a TT hatch? Sounds like overkill to me!

I read somewhere that VW will be introducing a brand new model to compete with the BMW 125/30. Was that not the role of the Quattro A3? God help VW management!

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Cuz the A3 is a five door here and the TT hatch would be a three door?

Just trying to help out...
]-)

dewey · April 2005

I think that creating two or more versions of a similar car is not in the interests of VW/Audi(A3,TT hatch,new VW to compete with BMW 1series).

Once the Greatest and Biggest Company produced different versions of a similar product. Unfortunately GM is still paying a hefty price for that mistake.

ivan_99 · April 2005

I think its a good idea to have many variations of one product. If the product is good that is; herein lies the GM problem

dl7265 · April 2005

A4 WB 104.3
A3 WB 101.4

A4 width 76.3
A3 width 77.1

A4 length 180.6
A3 length 168.7

A4 height 56.2
A3 height 56.1

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Okay kids, the configurator is up and running:

http://www.audiusa.com/configurator_powertrain/0,,13___,00.html?bodystyle=a3sedan&referrin- gPage=buildallmodels_theater

Have fun. I did.

The price concerns me mildly. A dolled-up 2.0 DSG, and not with all options checked, pegs at $33K+. That's with Leather, Sport, Sky and NAV, but without audio upgrades. To me, that means a 3.2 done my way might go $36K+?

Hmmmmm...

kyfdx · April 2005

And.. you still don't have Quattro for that price, right?

robr2 · April 2005

And.. you still don't have Quattro for that price, right?

That's correct. Well Audi did say it feels it should be able to charge more for it's products...

wale_bate1 · April 2005

D'oh!

Nope.

$38K+?

Double hmmmm...

Wouldn't it be funny if I ended up in an IS350?

}-]

kyfdx · April 2005

Yeah.. and this is for an A3, not an A4... Getting way out of hand..

I assumed that I could get an imaginary 130i, pretty loaded up for $35K.. Even if I'm off $3K-$4K, it is looking better than the A3... and no need for AWD, with a good RWD platform...

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Well, I don't agree with you on the looks, but hey, you say tomayto and I'll say tomahto. Fer sure, if a 130i can be had for near the same with a good dollop of fixin's, then a questioning eye must surely be cast in Audi's direction. RWD would be a major plus IMO.

Could be a major oops in the works here. Darn shame too. So cool-looking and just the right size.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

D'oh!

"...looking better..." not "better looking".

Ever have one of those days?

kyfdx · April 2005

Sure I have!!

Look back a few posts.. I did the same thing when I added up my price.. Got it all figured out, then realized that didn't include Quattro....

I think the Audi is marginally better looking, actually.. the value equation is what I'm having trouble with....

stickguy · April 2005

at least if initial sales fall flat, the killer lease deal on FWD 2.0s will happen sooner than I thought!

Given the pricing, the only was I can see myself getting on e of these (and I would really enjoy it I think) is if they pay me off to lease one. Yes, I can be bought.

Also, if you sign up for internet updates (via email), you will likely get a test-drive come on soon. They will give you 33 free itunes downloads for a test drive. Needless to say, my teenage son was very excited. He likes the car too.

wale_bate1 · April 2005

Ditto.

I'm sure it's merest coincidence, but yesterday Audi sent me an e-update on the A3 with links to "exciting" info that turned out to be same ol' same ol' from the website.

I sent back a reply to the effect that while grateful for the attention, I'd already seen it all, and what I'd really like is to "use the configurator, please, seeing as how the cars are already on the lots..."

Needless to say, I'm feeling a surge of near dictatorial consumer power, as I'm sure it was my e-mail alone that broke open the flood gate of unfettered info...

kyfdx · April 2005

I'm sure that is what did it...

In another discussion, habitat1 single-handedly caused BMW to offer a true manual on the new M5, just by his griping about it.. and, he didn't even have to e-mail... (I think that makes you a piker).

regards,
kyfdx

wale_bate1 · April 2005

I do so hate being one-upped...

Audi A3

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