DSG with the 2.0T nets you 2/10 of a second off the 0-60 time and delivers slightly better around town fuel economy (slightly worse hwy). Fascinating. I really think this is the future in the making from all I've read.
0-60 in 6.7 with DSG, 6.9 with the 6M 25/31 with DSG, 24/32 with the 6M
YMMV
I really like to have my object of desire firmly established a good two years before my next purchase. This one is starting to frustrate me a bit... ;-]
Good Point,The Audi dealer in my area is right down the street from a VERY affluent High School. A quick look in the lot u'll see M3's, Vette, ect,, you get the idea. To us normal folk 33k for a hatch, scuse me, Sportback is a bit pricey. But I can see them moving every one they get at MSRP.
As for packaging, if you want cloth I hope thats it. Want xenon ? nope. how about hot seats ? nope. OK, how about XM radio ? nope. I guess i see the logic in it, don't mean I approve however.
I saw the Canadian prices for a fwd A3 and they are definite deal breakers. The price difference between fwd a4 and a3 are a bit too close for comfort.
A fwd audi a3? Why buy one when there will be a VW GTI? If the GTI sells at a significantly lower price than the fwd A3, the GTI could be a worthy purchase!
I dont see how the 1 series can be priced far above an equivalent A3?(although it is possible)
As mentioned by Wale and Kyfdx, I think it would be worth waiting for BMW's 1 series intro.(130xi with a hatch please)
My complete and total obsession with the A3 has led me to start an A3 specific forum at AudiA3.net I will be making the site prettier (adding a logo, etc.) and adding content, but the best way to make it a great site will be constributions from folks like us
(AudiA3.net is not meant to replace this site, of course, it's just a new site with a different focus)
GTI is a fairly compelling argument, dewey. I can dude up a GTI pretty heavy with a VR6 for well under $30. 'Course I lose a couple doors and a significant chunk of styling...
With this pricing it is going to bomb. Well, it looks that lessons of BMW 318i and MB C230 not learned... Starting $25.5K with fwd and cloth, no sunroof is basically outpricing their target customers. Big pitty, because it had a potential. Just couple large less on MSRP and suddenly WRX/9-3X Aero, fully loaded Mazda3 would get their run for the money.
I guess, they got scared that Golf/Jetta crowd would be diverted. They don't get that perhaps a little internal competition might actually increase foot traffic in both divisions (as it happened in other brands).
Big pitty, because it had a potential. But not when it tops $30K so easily without even having quatro in it.
I may be one of the few people who is actually intrigued by the A3. I currently drive an A4 and am looking for a new car. I like the utility of a 5-door hatchback (can fold the back seats and haul more stuff than the A4, but still can carry 4 people) probably more than a sedan. I have seriously considered the Mazda 3s hatchback (even test-drove it) but would greatly miss the level of luxury I can get in my Audi. I guess I am reluctant to take a step down in luxury.
Is the problem that people view hatchbacks as cheap econoboxes and not serious transportation? This car can be equipped almost to be as nice as an A4 but with added utility. To me that is a valuable thing.
The fly in the ointment, I admit, is that one must lose quattro at this point. The Haldex AWD doesn't cut it for me. I believe that a torsen quattro-equipped car handles much better than a front driver on dry pavement. The Haldex setup does very little to enhance that.
Actually, reading the description, it sounds like a lot of the AWD is basically an Audi TT Haldex system... Not the greatest, but it beats FWD only.. There are two other ones I spotted in there for sale... Looks like it comes in any color you want, as long as it is blue..
bellamusica wrote: The Haldex AWD doesn't cut it for me. I believe that a torsen quattro-equipped car handles much better than a front driver on dry pavement. The Haldex setup does very little to enhance that.
I respectfully disagree with that. I hate to repeat myself - but here it is:
People used to argue that the Haldex system is not truly full-time AWD since it is usually implemented to be almost FWD under normal driving. Without additional sensors and electronic, it used to be a reactive system - though it would react to wheel spin within a few degrees difference of rotation, which is pretty fast. Still, that's not always what you want. When all 4 wheels are driven, you are much less likely to get into trouble in the first place (e.g., because more traction is available for steering). The modern Haldex implementations therefore are much more tightly integrated with ESP, and have yaw angle measurements, throttle opening, and steering parameters available. Thus, the clutch pack will close proactively under many circumstances, giving the same protection and handling (if not better) than other permanent AWD systems, while maintaining the low fuel consumption of FWD on straight driving.
Moreover, the new Haldex systems can transmit such a large amount of torque that they effectively fully lock up. In that case, 100% of the available torque is transmitted to whatever axle grips (and with open front/rear diffs and traction control, to whatever wheel grips). This is great when starting out or driving really slowly on snow and ice. The system will also pretty much lock up when you get started fast from a standstill, on any surface. So, as far as torque is concerned, it doesn't matter that the front axle is permanently driven and that there is no mechanical center diff. The majority of torque can still go to the back, if advantageous.
The Torsen's main advantage used to be that it distributes more torque to the more slowly rotating axle (the one with grip) without electronic intervention. In that sense it is simple. However, that is also its biggest drawback: it cannot be integrated into modern cars' ESP systems, because it has no electronic input. It also never fully locks up. So, you might find your self in a situation where one wheel has grip, but you can't move forward. Traction control helps a little, but it pretty much bogs everything down (because the Torsen wants to send more torque to the axle that is most braked by traction control).
Away from theory, all reviews of well-implemented Haldex systems (including Audi's TT) I have read are extremely favorable. In addition to its behavior in sporty driving (on wet or dry roads), it also gets good marks in snow. AutoBild recently had a review of a number of AWD vehicles in snow and ice, and the Golf 4Motion came pretty much out on top.
*** ...while maintaining the low fuel consumption of FWD on straight driving. ***
Except when it doesn't... The A4 2.0 Quattro manual gets 22/31, the FWD gets 23/34. Extra upfront cost, extra fuel cost, and extra repair cost. If I lived in the Great White North, I wouldn't hesitate to get it, though.
I went on a test drive this afternoon, and I enjoyed the car very much. The car I drove was a DSG 2.0T that had the Premium Package, Heated Seats, and Leather (probably part of Premium); MSRP was a shade over $30K. It was a short drive, but I was able to use the DSG, which is a really nice tranny. The interior was sharp, materials looked great and the controls are layed out nicely (which is what I expect from Audi). Acceleration was good, but nothing to rave about. The car feels roomier than it's size would suggest and visibility was good. The ride was sporty without being harsh, which was nice.
I'm not sure I would buy this car at this price point as it is too close to an A4 2.0T. It is nice, but I'd like to see what BMW does with the 1 series. My 2005 325i is a much nicer car in my opinion, but I wouldn't call that a fair comparison either.
This is just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
I just came back from driving the 2.0T FWD 6M. I had NO IDEA FWD could work this well - the A3 is making me rethink all my notions of what configuration is best.
For folks familiar with the 1.8T of old, turbo lag is about 80% gone in the new 2.0. There is just the barest hint of it, but you wouldn't notice unless you were looking for it, unlike the wait-all-day 1.8T. This new engine runs a 10.3:1 compression ratio because of the direct injection, so there is good power at all times.
The power is right on all the time, and the handling is superb. No clomping over every bad piece of road, and yet it corners so tightly. Brakes are wonderful. The only noise at speed is wind noise, although if you really get your foot in it, you can hear the engine - it is NOT the coarse thrashy roaring of the VW 1.8 either.
I keep harping on the power - it just surprised me, it was that impressive. I test drove it back to back with an Acura TSX, and the TSX feels dead in the water compared to the Audi. You really have to keep the Acura revving, whereas if you plant the gas pedal at 2000 rpm in the A3, it shoots ahead like a little jet. For the same money, the TSX has fallen to a distant second. Rear seat room is better in the A3 too - I can sit comfortably behind myself, if you get my meaning, whereas I can't in the TSX.
At Edmunds we seem to have a tried and true tradition of coming to the conclusion that every new model is overpriced for its segment and will ultimately fail, before the first ones even hit the streets! This car's only real competition at near-base prices will be VW, if you want a hatch. It is basically a five-door version of the three-door GTI that will be here in six months. So if you want those two extra doors, which I do, the GTI won't cut it. I have tried all the other hatches under this price, and they all feel so desperately cheap, made of plastic and cardboard, compared to the A3.
Now that is me: all I would want is the base car with the stand alone sky view roof option, for a total of about $26,5 sticker. I agree that if you are prepared to head up into the low $30Ks by optioning this thing up with packages, DSG, Quattro, and/or the 6-cyl, other compelling alternatives emerge.
Heated seats? Don't care. Leather? Dislike it - prefer cloth. NAV? No way. And I am three pedals all the way until the day I die. The one thing that gives me pause about this car is the lack of head room. I am on the short side at 5'9" and I am almost rubbing my head in the headliner.
Did I mention 24/32 for mpg? Yesss! The chintzy thing about it is the same as all German cars it seems: if you want a particular color, or sometimes it is metallic paint, be prepared to pay extra. In the A3's case, unless you like red, white, or black, expect to pay a $450 premium, and two of the colors have a $1000 premium!
Footnote: I am really into auto-up windows nowadays, and the A3 has them on every door. Not to mention an absolutely awesome stock stereo with 10 speakers including subwoofer, and great FM reception. Compare this with the TSX stickering $2K higher: auto-up on driver's door only, lousy radio reception, and muddy boomy sound.
Footnote for wale: looked at the IS on paper, didn't drive one - several thousand $$ more, 5-speed only in the sedan, terrible mpg, just couldn't see ever realistically choosing to buy one despite the RWD advantage. If the A3's AWD system is really a FWD-biased system, does that rule it out for you? In that case, what will it be, A4 Quattro?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hi all, I am new to this forum as I am thinking of an A3 purchase and want to hear what others have to say. I would like to echo nippononly's post that driving the manual A3 was awesome. Test drove it last week to get the free itunes that were offered and was very impressed.
The only thing to add is that the front legroom is incredible on both the driver's and passengers side. I am 6'5" and felt like I had to move the seat forward just slightly. This could be the answer for all the taller drivers out there! I did not notice any problem with headroom but I was driving a car without the sunroof.
The only concern I have at this point is pricing. I have a Passat V6 and the A3 ($25-30K) is very close to the price I paid for it ($28K). As nice as the A3 is, the Passat is better equiped for the same money.
Well... I just tried the configurator myself, and now I'm sad. I don't blame Audi for the price; it's fair. But the options, they make me mad. I don't want leather. It doesn't go well with high-g maneuvers. But you have to get it if you want the sport suspension. I guess I could get the base car and then get an aftermarket suspension... I dunno. Even the fancy paint adds to the price. I was being overly optimistic in the first place, hoping that the A3 would just barely squeeze into my budget range. But on the other hand it's cool that Audi thinks of it as an alternative to the A4, not really so much as a volume seller.
I guess you're paying a lot extra for the engine, but torque isn't high on my priority list. So, this may not be the car for me. But I'd have to wait until November for the new GTI... the Civic Si's insurance is astronomical... and the RSX-S (my type of engine) doesn't have the interior space I want.
Hey about Haldex... it doesn't sound like it would powerslide well, would it?
Audi only wants to sell 20K of these things per year? Of which 4K are to be 6-cyls? That can barely even be called a trickle - I think they will succeed.
And carlisimo: no way! If you were ever seriously thinking about following through with that plan, it would be much better to get the sport suspension that Audi engineers designed especially for the car, and get the leather seats reupholstered in cloth, which anyone can do - it is not an engineering issue.
I wish Audi were one of those companies that are now going to begin offering cloth as a no-cost option on lots of models, like Mercedes is.
ian: I agree, the Passat makes a compelling alternative to this car, but only IF you don't mind buying a sedan. For that matter, so do a number of other sedans, including the A4, which also will have the 2.0T soon if you want it. I dislike sedans - I would go to no small lengths to NOT own a sedan. Now, if we talk wagons for a minute, then the line gets fuzzy. But nice wagons in this range cost more than A3 by a fair margin, except maybe the Jetta wagon, and I have not seen any word yet whether the new Jetta just now arriving will be available in a wagon again?
Not to mention, wagons are generally bigger, whereas the A3 is a hatch - just the right size! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"agree, the Passat makes a compelling alternative to this car, but only IF you don't mind buying a sedan"
There will be a new Passat Wagon!
" For that matter, so do a number of other sedans, including the A4,"
There is a new version of a Audi A4 Avant Wagon.
"except maybe the Jetta wagon, and I have not seen any word yet whether the new Jetta just now arriving will be available in a wagon again? " There will be a new version of a Jetta Wagon.
Well... the leather is part of what pushes the car outside of my upper-upper limit. Without the leather I would've thought long and hard about what would've been a financial stretch for me, so I'm using this as an excuse to not think about getting this expensive a car at all. The RSX-S has leather (I don't understand why) so the stuff can't be too bad for cornering.
Dewey, wagons aren't exactly the same thing. They're awfully long, which affects how they feel. And as for looks, hatchbacks have short rear overhangs and that's an important part of their look, imo.
Now, if we talk wagons for a minute, then the line gets fuzzy. My mistake Nippononly, thought you were talking about wagons, not hatches! Pardon mon Anglais!
Also it's nice to know that there is someone who agrees with me about cloth seats. My BMW323i is one those rare BMWs with cloth seats(I would not have it any other way)
Corvette: Nope. A4 Torsen, A3 Haldex. Different platforms with different apps. Confuses many including me before reading a number of folks here. Bravo one and all. Most threads aren't quite this enlightening without being nasty!
Nippon: Comp test to an outgoing IS? Dirty pool old man, dirty pool! She was still a winner in MY 2003 in my book, but there were others nipping hard even then! She's old my friend, and others have passed her by. Still, my wagon is the best compact RWD wagon in this country says I!
I will test a 2.0T, given all the positive press here. And I'm fairly certain that if the A3 makes sense, I'll also go DSG, depending on the test drive. It's almost too impressive on paper not to! Whatever wins, any A3 I might want will have to be special ordered. The two colors I like are SO only!
I too am driving an a4, a quattro wagon 3.0 - - drove the A3 dsg 2.0 today. it was not what i expected. note: my other car is a DSG 3.2 TT, and this replaced a 225HP 1.8 quattro tt - - the A3 had been touted as a "four door" TT - - not really . . . not at all. The steering is very light, as opposed to the massive heavy feel of the TT wheel. Also, there is a (small) dead spot at the center point, not altogether a bad thing, especially at high speeds, but nonetheless, not like the TT, which is on rails from lock to lock. The DSG transmission performed admirably - - the paddles have a slightly chintzy feel compared to the TT, but hey, the car is $12K cheaper, so I can live with that. I agree that turbo lag has more or less been vanquished, but there is still some delay compared to the immediacy of the 3.2 - - hardly a surprise. The other thing I noticed is that if you apply full power from a standing start, while cutting the steering wheel over to one side or the other ( for instance, you are turning into a street and want to boot the car right up to speed,) there is a tendancy for some slop, some torque steer and a bit of rear-end waggling that would not be there if quattro was present to sort out all the applied power.
I also found the driver's seat (leather, power, with adjustable lumbar) to be quite good, but the passenger seat left a bit to be desired - - I went and tested the car with a slightly sore back. My standard is that if my back relaxes it is a good seat, and if it doesn't, I will probably be miserable on long trips. Granted, I am over 50, and am probably more sensitive to seat quallity than some might be. The longer I rode in the passenger seat, the better it felt. I am going back and testing the sport seat, since the completely non-power, no-lumbar-adjustment seat in the TT works just great for me . . .maybe this is the answer.
Summary: $30K is a fairly big chunk of change. I was not overwhelmed by this car - - found it somewhat cheap compared to my 2002 A4 - - but when I see what else I can buy for 30K, and all the things lacking in the competition, I still think this is my next ride.
RS-X is great until you force someone to actually sit in the back seat. Their head will be smashed against the enormous roof supports that jut into the passenger area. thus we are really talking about a two-seater with a luggage shelf, or a car for two adults and two midgets in the back seat. I made my wife sit back there (in the RS-X back seat) during a test drive. that pretty much killed the vehicle in my mind. The rear seat of the A3 is actually useful - - I even put my 6.0 ft. body back there, and could travel in reasonable comfort.
Also, one last point: if you think turbo lag is bad, and it really is almost gone in the 2.0, check out how long it takes the RS-X and every other honda engine to hit its torque curve. miserable. step on the gas and nothing happens. it is not until you have the engine screaming that you can make power shifts. While this might be satisfying to rice rocket types, it has very little to do with every-day driving in traffic, which is why I will not buy another car from Honda/Acura until they re-orient their thinking away from high-revving racecar style engines to powerplants that can pull away from a stoplight with finesse.
well good point of course, the "old" IS is VERY old! The new 2.5 might be just the gig, but again we face the problem that I would have to settle for a sedan rather than my fave - the hatch. And I do not know what to expect for fuel economy in the new 250, although I have heard the speculation of a near-30 combined figure.
I dearly wish Lexus would pop out a stick shift IS250 SportCross - at $30K. I would find the extra $5K to get RWD over FWD, even as much as I like the A3. banadan makes a good point about torque steering the A3 when trying to accelerate rapidly away from a right turn - there is enough power there to unsettle the car if you really gas it.
As for the pecking order, it is hatch - wagon - sedan for me. I would take a wagon over a sedan, but I would much rather have a hatch than both, so for me the question of the A4 Avant and the Jetta and Passat wagons is kind of moot.
Up until now I have loved the "screamer" approach to power that Honda has taken, and there are a lot of things about my RSX that I am very fond of. But the main reason for picking such an engine is to get outstanding fuel economy out of it when you are just commuting and staying off the gas, while having a car that is an absolute blast on the occasions when I get a chance to really open it up. However, if the EPA ratings on the A3 are to be believed, turbos have reached the point where you can have the best of both worlds. I think direct injection has played a large role in that, and if you believe Audi, they are the first ones to bring a direct injection turbo to the street.
I still don't know what to think about the fact that many turbos nowadays, including the A3, don't have a boost gauge, which I think should be standard, and what I can expect in terms of longevity from a turbo - I do know they are much better than the (what I would call) short-lived German and Swedish turbos of the 1980s.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I like racecar style engines, I'm afraid. It fits how I like to drive, and I find flat torque curves boring. Honda fans who don't like high-revving engines tend to supercharge the Civic Si or base RSX, but the rest of us wonder why they like Hondas. I guess I wouldn't mind if they started building torquey engines, but only so long as they kept a seperate line of Honda-like high revvers.
Meanwhile I'm realizing that every car company in the world must hate me. The perfect combination of engine and car shape for me is the Civic type-R (high revving engine, nice backseats) but it's not sold here. I could live with the Civic Si, but my favorite color for it (red) is only sold in Canada. From VW, I much prefer the 3-door A3 to the 5-door, but I'd rather get a 5-door GTI than a 3-door (and in colors we're not gonna get). Looking at the Mazda3, my favorite colors were yellow and sunset orange... both of which have been discontinued this year. Focus SVT... dead before I entered the buying market, not enough sold to find a used one. And that's pretty much what I'm considering.
Loved your review, btw. The steering dead spot description leaves me cold though. Is that a US-specific "feature"? DSG question... when you're idling, is it technically in neutral? How does the shift to first feel?
1. Subaru Impreza WRX Wgn: you loose leather, sunroof and some nice additions (maintenance, xenon etc.), but you get a superior AWD (please don't tell me Audi's Haldex would be better, because it would not; Torsen - perhaps, but not Haldex), killer performance, killer handling, and couple of grand in your pocket. Not to mention much better reliability record. Also, interior improved a lot from previous years. 2. Saab 9-2X Aero: you hall all above, but you can get leather, sunroof, a bit quieter interior, 4-year warranty and maintenance. If you are lucky and patient, Saab drops heavy (I mean HEAVY) incentives from time to time, like 3-5 grand. 3. Acura RSX-S: well, different body type, but pretty good equipment, rear full hatch allows a single person to get almost similar utility as with a five-door hatchback. And great price. 4. Volvo V50 T5: OK, you need to cross $30K for good config, but so you do with A3. It also has Haldex AWD available, so no big fuss here, either. And have you seen the interior? 5. VW Passat Wagon (future model): we don't know their pricing, but I don't think they'll dare to depart deeper into 30s: too much Japanese competition. 6. Subaru Legacy GT/GT Limited: Again, superior (to Haldex) AWD, great performance, nice interior. Of course lacks some options, but hey, how much is Audi going to ask for 3.2 AWD with nav, xenon, and sunroof? 7. Mazda6 5-door/wagon V6: little down on some aspects, but still remains an option for "value-oriented" people.
I think there is plenty of competition and there will be more. I was myself stuck on A3 quattro 3.2/A4 Avant 3.2 as my next car, but with their recent prices, I started thinking "thanks, but no thanks".
Don't get me wrong - Audi has plenty to go for, but they need to know who their target is. It used to be people who have some money to spend, but not to throw it away (those went straight to BMW or MB, not even trying others). Somebody like single young engineers: wanting "premium" but sensitive to value, i.e. content-to-price ratio, making decent money, but not enough to jump at a badge without looking what is really inside. They like tech talk, they like the badge, but they don't like to be ripped off and they always keep their options open. Those people are being left behind by Audi.
So who is their new target? Rich kids? Young lawyers from big firms? New doctors after their residency? Perhaps but how do you make them to stop by on their way to BMW and MB dealerships? AWD with Haldex/Torsen? Is it some new hot Swedish fashion designers in New York? Tiptronic/Multitronic? What are those, some new countries in Asia or Eastern Europe? Oh, turbo! I heard, the newest pills in town, they rock, man! Direct injection? No thank you, I already had a flu shot this year!
Now seriously: Audi has great styling, gorgeous interiors, superb content, but is it enough to lure the "new audience" willing to pay this much? Perhaps, but the new prices are definitely enough to disenchant their "old" following, like me.
Note: I owned a 2001 Jetta GLS 1.8T Wolfsburg Edition.
So Saturday I drove a stipped 6mt Audi A3. 25k sticker and it's got the normal bits one expects but no frills...so no xenon, moon, leather, etc.
First thing I notice, the door handles are flip up style. Pet peeve as I hate that type of handle and prefer pull handles like those on my 330i and my prior Jetta sported.
Fabric is decent. Much like the fabric in my old Jetta. Again, not gonna worry about it as I wouldn't buy a car and keep fabric. If the leather matches the A4, awesome.
In the base model the seats operate like a Jetta's so that dumb crank system and the even more idiotic rotary dial are used to change the seat's height and back angle. I was told the leather seats are power. They better be. Why VA/Audi can't make normal manual seats is a mystery for the ages.
Interior materials felt pretty much like a last gen jetta. not bad considering that car still has a better interior than most cars. Compared to the MZ3, the A3's got the interior feel perfect. But the layout has problems. Mainly the footwell is narrow and the center console is really wide. Even sitting still I noticed it was near impossible to put my small size 10 shoe to the floorboard with the clutch engaged. Additionally, my right knee was always pressed against the console. Argh. Mazda3 is simply more comfortable from a driver ergonomics position. Maybe leather/power seats would help a bit but not help the narrowness and intrusive firewall..
Rearward visibility = horrid. The back window is tiny and the design seems to funnel toward the back. mirrors on the outside are of a decent size so they help a bit with lane changes. Still I thought visibility in my BMW was awful, but the A3 is much worse - another case of design over function. Mazda3 is leaps better in this regard. Forward visibility is fine and while looking forward it reminds me a lot of my old Jetta.
I pulled out of the lot and onto a road. Couple things sprang to mind. Oh, Germans know how to dampen a suspension just right. You feel the road but it's not jarring. Very sublime. Quiet too and the 2.0 FSI is pulling nicely even at 2k rpm. And finally, where is second? Argh, that small footwell space makes it impossible to press the clutch to the floor and this car won't find a gear unless that pedal is smashed to the floor. Maybe it's an abused test model? Perhaps newer ones have clutches that work sooner and better?
Underway and accelerating more tidbits came to me. The shifter mechanism is far better than the models I've tried from Audi/VW in the past. But the clutch is becoming a nightmare. And my knee is always banging against the center console! But feel that 2.0. Oh it's like buttery heaven. It just pulls without a hint of any peakiness - I miss this feel compared to the horrid engine response in BMW's peaky inline 6s.
On the freeway the small rearward visibility is grating on my nerves. I'm in a bright red car doing 90 and I can't see half the cars behind me through that periscope like back window! Lane changes are based more on, "just passed that guy", glance, it appears he's not there, try mirrors, cross fingers, change lanes. I didn't hit anyone but man I felt like it might happen.
At 85 mph in 6th gear the car turns over 3k rpm. Nice. Audi/VW finally realized cruising gears are a good thing. Even at 90 I depressed the gas and the car swiftly accelerated. Can't do that in my 330i - drop to 4th from 6th for that maneuver.
The car's quiet too. We're at 85+, no radio, dual zone climate is working and the car is quiet (for me). too quiet. I prefer more hustle and bustle but at least it's not loud. More aggressive muffler could help. but it's not a deal breaker.
Handling was hard to judge for two reasons. 1 the clutch was such a pain that I couldn't do too much in the way of spirited stuff and keep the car in the proper gear. 2 the 10 mile route just didn't offer much in the way of switchbacks and turns.. The car felt planted and very much like my old Jetta. A tad more nimble but this was a base model, so I'm hoping the lowered, more aggressive sport package with 18s will make the car feel more alive. Also this was FWD (not a fave of mine).
Room in front was decent. Room in back was tight and the back seat on the base model felt like it could be cardboard covered with fabric. Yuck! Are leather models better? Not sure.
Pros: nice ride, superb engine. Cons: no rearward visibility, bad back seats, horrible footwell, large center console intrudes on knee space.
I will have to try a leather, DSG equipped 2.0 - maybe quattro too. At this point the Mazda3 2.3 is more fun due to the better seating, visibility and great shifter/clutch setup. But the Audi certainly felt more upscale and buttoned down. Almost like what it is, an entry level luxury sport wagon. Put that 2.0 in the Mazda and it'd be a match in heaven!
Well, the answer to the last question first is that their target seems the same as Lexus's original target for the IS300: young professional beginning to feel his or her (his, more likely, seems to me) oats. Couple promotions, new office with a door, ready to enter the lux world but not yet fully vested in his 401K matching funds. They aren't looking to sell to HS kids on Mom and Dad's dime, although there will certainly be more than a few of those too.
Subaru is out for me. I respect the line and the credentials, but they're just too funky for me to look at every day, even in Legacy trim. I had hopes for the 9-2x, but after seeing it in the skin, well, I think it's kinda ugly too. Ditto on the Volvo. I liked to pics at first, but when I got up next to one, it's a chunky l'il monkey, and the stats aren't all that great. I might drive it comparo-style anyway, but that's a long-shot.
Not a lot of real competition there IMO. If a 1-series hatch or touring makes it here, then that's something I might jump to. An extra few grand for a hot inline six and RWD is something I'd pay.
If it's FWD, Mazda seems like an alternative to me. But I'm not doing FWD...
II am only going for a test drive when the Quattro arrives. Also sometime next month I hope to test drive the new A4 Avant Quattro and the BMW e90 during the same day.
Yeah the AWD DSG model with the 2.0 and V6 both intrigue me. Shocked I'm considering giving up a real manual. I liked the car enough to consider the DSG though. :confuse:
Yeah, I see the point. Styling is always in the eye of the beholder. If one just does not like the look of something, nothing can be helped.
I am perhaps more "from inside to outside" person. Kind of three stage approach: first: it is enough to look OK, next is widely defined content including reliability (what good is a car that sits in a garage?) and then back to styling as a tiebreaker. Thus, the list of potential alternatives/competition.
That's why I'm crying after A4: I just got a bit closer and they just run away . Pricing of A3 only angered me more.
I am very impressed! My original statement about no good competition in the A3's price bracket was well thought out (from my perspective), and you hit on EVERY car I considered for the competition.
WRX: a fast car when the turbo is turning, which you will wait forever for. The inside is cheap, cheap, and did I mention cheap? I will not spend more than my current car to go three or four steps back DOWN the cheapness scale on the interior. To WRX's credit, this is a very old model and the new one arrives in the fall, something I hope Audi is mindful of.
9-2x Aero - same turbo lag problem, new day. The interior is slightly better (taken from the current Forester), still missing many amenities of the Audi. And it's a Saab, which will probably be mismanaged to death by GM in a few short years leaving me where?
RSX-S - basically the car I have now with a more peaky powertrain. I want four doors again, or I wouldn't be looking.
Volvo V50 - NOW we're talking, a sweet car. Oh wait, no manual available? Bye bye.
Passat wagon - yeah, well I brought up wagons before. I would prefer a hatch, and look at the Passat wagon - already big and priced higher than the A3. With the way VW has skyrocketed the prices on the new Jetta, don't you think they will do the same for the new Passat? So we could easily be looking at $33-35K for the base price on the next Passat wagon. I would actually consider the current wagon, but again it is a bit big for my tastes, and I am not the biggest fan of the 1.8T.
Legacy GT wagon - big. Sedan is...a sedan. Both cost more than the A3, and have some typically funky Subaru touches. Fuel economy is much lower than the A3. Subaru has improved a great deal over the years, but I am beginning to wonder if they will always be a little behind the pack on interiors. For the $17K I spent on my Outback Sport eight years ago, I didn't mind the low-grade interior. If I am spending $25 or more (will almost certainly be more for the Legacy GT), I DO care.
Mazda6 V6 hatch - perhaps the closest competitor that I didn't drive. Gets a little pricey, but Mazda offers cash back. Hard to find manuals in stock at dealers. It is bigger than the A3, but not huge. EVERY review I have read says you have to rev the spit out of the Duratec 3.0 in this car to get the power. The nice thing about the A3's turbo is you don't have to - power is everywhere on the dial. And again, fuel economy of the V-6 Mazda6 is low (even lower than the Legacy GT, isn't it?). Plus, Mazda would have to make magic out of FWD the way Audi has with this car, or it would be out. I may yet test drive the Mazda though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
blue guy: everyone seems to be mentioning the intrusive center console and tight footwell. I am a large guy with a size 11 shoe, but I did not notice either problem. Perhaps I was not paying enough attention. Certainly I liked the clutch - nice and short, precise, never had a problem depressing it fully in the space provided. And the shifter in this car is MUCH better than previous VWs I have driven - I would put it on a par with Honda manual shifters, with which I am fairly impressed.
As for the rear vision thing, I would respectfully suggest that this is a common problem for anyone coming from a sedan to a hatchback. I used to have a Matrix, and when I would lend it to my friends who normally drive sedans, that would ALWAYS be their comment upon its return: "how do you see out of the back of this thing, visibility is awful!".
For awful rearward visibility, try driving the current Celica sometime (I had one for a few months): tiny rear window, huge high butt that points your line of sight up in the air, and a spoiler that neatly bisects the (very narrow) field of view.
As for the A3, and as a point of reference for me and others that have had hatches in the past, rearward visibility is better than in the Matrix I used to have. Not a lot, but definitely better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
thanks for the info - I didn't check it on the website. I visited two Volvo dealers - one told me there is no such thing as a manual shift V50. The other one I visited said they might be able to order one but would never stock any. Those are the two dealers within 50 miles of me, so I left it at that. I might be willing to order, but in that case I would want to drive it first, and how am I going to do that if the only way to try one out is to order it?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
While I haven't driven/set in one yet, I do like the fact that theA4/A3 both have the rear headrest that are cutout and go down into the seat, When I set in the E90 that i have on order i noticed that they are even more intrusive than my former E46. Im one of those weird people I guess that use my Rvm and side mirrors. It's such a simple thing to do,but Ive only seen it in Audi.
could be, yeah. Although the car I drove already had 150 miles on the odometer. Was yours really miled up already? I thought they hadn't been around that long.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The rear seat headrests are indeed intrusive in my IS. So any design that tucks neatly when not in service is a good one, IMO. Besides, at 9 and 12, my two young'uns who are the primary passengers back there, aren't actually tall enough to make use of them anyway!
With rising beltlines and other styling/space utilization priorities, I do indeed find rear views compromised a bit these days. I'll have to do my test drive to see if this is a step up or not!
On styling: I need to be hooked, personally. I can approach it from an inside-out vantage, but even if I'm happy inside, I have to be happy standing in the driveway after the damp towels and polish cloths are put away too. A3 definitely hooked me from the get-go, even with that schnozz. ;-}
a lot has been made of the schnozz in the press, and I must admit I didn't much like the look of the nose in pictures, but in person it looks OK, I think. It makes the new Jetta's nose (similarly shaped) look huge and bulgey, because of all the chrome the VW has that the Audi doesn't, thank goodness.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"WRX: The inside is cheap, cheap, and did I mention cheap?
Well, it definitely was before '05. I know, cause I own '03 05 is quite an improvement, but still well short of an Audi. However, saying that there is no competition is a little strong for me, because in each of those cars are trade-offs (all listed and well recognized).
Apparently A3 hits the mark for you. I just don't like paying 25.5K for cloth FWD 200 hp or almost $40 for leather DSG 255 hp AWD (I am guessing here but seeing how Audi priced their recent products, I think I'm close) $40K! Just too much at each end. Drop it by 2 grand at low point and say 3-4 grand at the high point and then I would agree with "no competition" statement.
oops, I IN NO WAY meant to diss your ride or anything, sorry about that! However, it was the '05 I went and sat in that spurred my comment. The seats are decent, everything else is pretty icky. The Audi has it beat, bottom line. However, I am VERY curious to see what the '06 WRX looks like - this should be a completely revamped model for '06, and I have not heard a thing about powertrains. I hope they spruce up the interior a lot. If they do that and hold the price increase to 10% or so, they would knock the A3 off the little perch I have built for it! :-P
The handicap that the WRX has working against it is that it is at the top of a line of Imprezas that share interiors for the most part and start way down at like $18K or so. OTOH, the A3 goes UP from $25K, not down, and has to have an interior that still satisfies at $35K - a much higher standard.
And I think there is other good competition for the A3 too, I didn't mean to imply there wasn't. I don't think the A3 competes that well at stickers over $30K or so - other very good models begin to go head to head with it. But at $25K it is kind of in a limbo with few competitors - the ones we noted above. And it is the nicest of the lot by at least a nose (the huge schnozz actually!) IMO. :-)
That is based on my parameters of course - I prefer cloth. I had sworn to myself that I would never again spend more than my current car for FWD, but the Audi has me rethinking that avowal - it definitely masks the fact that it is a front driver very well.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I thought the clutch was fine. Much better than previous VWS I drove (Passat and A4). I also had plenty of room for my feet IIRC. Better than my Scion (the space for the accelerator is too narrow for some shoes), and my Miata (go figure, right)>
But, I did notice that the center stack intruded enough that my leg was up against it. I actually don't mind this, if it is padded, but I don't think the A3 was.
I would have to drive it again and pay more attention. Some things you don't notice on a test drive, but are big issues on a longer trip or living with it every day.
Comments
0-60 in 6.7 with DSG, 6.9 with the 6M
25/31 with DSG, 24/32 with the 6M
YMMV
I really like to have my object of desire firmly established a good two years before my next purchase. This one is starting to frustrate me a bit...
;-]
As for packaging, if you want cloth I hope thats it. Want xenon ? nope. how about hot seats ? nope. OK, how about XM radio ? nope. I guess i see the logic in it, don't mean I approve however.
DL
A fwd audi a3? Why buy one when there will be a VW GTI? If the GTI sells at a significantly lower price than the fwd A3, the GTI could be a worthy purchase!
I dont see how the 1 series can be priced far above an equivalent A3?(although it is possible)
As mentioned by Wale and Kyfdx, I think it would be worth waiting for BMW's 1 series intro.(130xi with a hatch please)
I will be making the site prettier (adding a logo, etc.) and adding content, but the best way to make it a great site will be constributions from folks like us
(AudiA3.net is not meant to replace this site, of course, it's just a new site with a different focus)
If that is what we really wanted, wouldn't we already be driving it? (I did see one.. pretty snazzy).
regards,
kyfdx
(snazzy.. that was for you, Grampa wale)
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Thanks for thinking of me. I printed "snazzy" out from your post and taped it to my 8x10 glossy of Veronica Lake.
I guess, they got scared that Golf/Jetta crowd would be diverted. They don't get that perhaps a little internal competition might actually increase foot traffic in both divisions (as it happened in other brands).
Big pitty, because it had a potential. But not when it tops $30K so easily without even having quatro in it.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Is the problem that people view hatchbacks as cheap econoboxes and not serious transportation? This car can be equipped almost to be as nice as an A4 but with added utility. To me that is a valuable thing.
The fly in the ointment, I admit, is that one must lose quattro at this point. The Haldex AWD doesn't cut it for me. I believe that a torsen quattro-equipped car handles much better than a front driver on dry pavement. The Haldex setup does very little to enhance that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6060&item=4544771036&rd=- - - 1
241 Hp and AWD... Where were you last year?
Actually, reading the description, it sounds like a lot of the AWD is basically an Audi TT Haldex system... Not the greatest, but it beats FWD only.. There are two other ones I spotted in there for sale... Looks like it comes in any color you want, as long as it is blue..
regards,
kyfdx
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I respectfully disagree with that. I hate to repeat myself - but here it is:
People used to argue that the Haldex system is not truly full-time AWD since it is usually implemented to be almost FWD under normal driving. Without additional sensors and electronic, it used to be a reactive system - though it would react to wheel spin within a few degrees difference of rotation, which is pretty fast. Still, that's not always what you want. When all 4 wheels are driven, you are much less likely to get into trouble in the first place (e.g., because more traction is available for steering). The modern Haldex implementations therefore are much more tightly integrated with ESP, and have yaw angle measurements, throttle opening, and steering parameters available. Thus, the clutch pack will close proactively under many circumstances, giving the same protection and handling (if not better) than other permanent AWD systems, while maintaining the low fuel consumption of FWD on straight driving.
Moreover, the new Haldex systems can transmit such a large amount of torque that they effectively fully lock up. In that case, 100% of the available torque is transmitted to whatever axle grips (and with open front/rear diffs and traction control, to whatever wheel grips). This is great when starting out or driving really slowly on snow and ice. The system will also pretty much lock up when you get started fast from a standstill, on any surface. So, as far as torque is concerned, it doesn't matter that the front axle is permanently driven and that there is no mechanical center diff. The majority of torque can still go to the back, if advantageous.
The Torsen's main advantage used to be that it distributes more torque to the more slowly rotating axle (the one with grip) without electronic intervention. In that sense it is simple. However, that is also its biggest drawback: it cannot be integrated into modern cars' ESP systems, because it has no electronic input. It also never fully locks up. So, you might find your self in a situation where one wheel has grip, but you can't move forward. Traction control helps a little, but it pretty much bogs everything down (because the Torsen wants to send more torque to the axle that is most braked by traction control).
Away from theory, all reviews of well-implemented Haldex systems (including Audi's TT) I have read are extremely favorable. In addition to its behavior in sporty driving (on wet or dry roads), it also gets good marks in snow. AutoBild recently had a review of a number of AWD vehicles in snow and ice, and the Golf 4Motion came pretty much out on top.
Except when it doesn't... The A4 2.0 Quattro manual gets 22/31, the FWD gets 23/34. Extra upfront cost, extra fuel cost, and extra repair cost. If I lived in the Great White North, I wouldn't hesitate to get it, though.
but point taken, if you're running the car with extra wheels engaged you will get lower mileage.
Interesting input. Thanks much allhorizon.
I'm not sure I would buy this car at this price point as it is too close to an A4 2.0T. It is nice, but I'd like to see what BMW does with the 1 series. My 2005 325i is a much nicer car in my opinion, but I wouldn't call that a fair comparison either.
This is just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
For folks familiar with the 1.8T of old, turbo lag is about 80% gone in the new 2.0. There is just the barest hint of it, but you wouldn't notice unless you were looking for it, unlike the wait-all-day 1.8T. This new engine runs a 10.3:1 compression ratio because of the direct injection, so there is good power at all times.
The power is right on all the time, and the handling is superb. No clomping over every bad piece of road, and yet it corners so tightly. Brakes are wonderful. The only noise at speed is wind noise, although if you really get your foot in it, you can hear the engine - it is NOT the coarse thrashy roaring of the VW 1.8 either.
I keep harping on the power - it just surprised me, it was that impressive. I test drove it back to back with an Acura TSX, and the TSX feels dead in the water compared to the Audi. You really have to keep the Acura revving, whereas if you plant the gas pedal at 2000 rpm in the A3, it shoots ahead like a little jet. For the same money, the TSX has fallen to a distant second. Rear seat room is better in the A3 too - I can sit comfortably behind myself, if you get my meaning, whereas I can't in the TSX.
At Edmunds we seem to have a tried and true tradition of coming to the conclusion that every new model is overpriced for its segment and will ultimately fail, before the first ones even hit the streets! This car's only real competition at near-base prices will be VW, if you want a hatch. It is basically a five-door version of the three-door GTI that will be here in six months. So if you want those two extra doors, which I do, the GTI won't cut it. I have tried all the other hatches under this price, and they all feel so desperately cheap, made of plastic and cardboard, compared to the A3.
Now that is me: all I would want is the base car with the stand alone sky view roof option, for a total of about $26,5 sticker. I agree that if you are prepared to head up into the low $30Ks by optioning this thing up with packages, DSG, Quattro, and/or the 6-cyl, other compelling alternatives emerge.
Heated seats? Don't care. Leather? Dislike it - prefer cloth. NAV? No way. And I am three pedals all the way until the day I die. The one thing that gives me pause about this car is the lack of head room. I am on the short side at 5'9" and I am almost rubbing my head in the headliner.
Did I mention 24/32 for mpg? Yesss! The chintzy thing about it is the same as all German cars it seems: if you want a particular color, or sometimes it is metallic paint, be prepared to pay extra. In the A3's case, unless you like red, white, or black, expect to pay a $450 premium, and two of the colors have a $1000 premium!
Footnote: I am really into auto-up windows nowadays, and the A3 has them on every door. Not to mention an absolutely awesome stock stereo with 10 speakers including subwoofer, and great FM reception. Compare this with the TSX stickering $2K higher: auto-up on driver's door only, lousy radio reception, and muddy boomy sound.
Footnote for wale: looked at the IS on paper, didn't drive one - several thousand $$ more, 5-speed only in the sedan, terrible mpg, just couldn't see ever realistically choosing to buy one despite the RWD advantage. If the A3's AWD system is really a FWD-biased system, does that rule it out for you? In that case, what will it be, A4 Quattro?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only thing to add is that the front legroom is incredible on both the driver's and passengers side. I am 6'5" and felt like I had to move the seat forward just slightly. This could be the answer for all the taller drivers out there! I did not notice any problem with headroom but I was driving a car without the sunroof.
The only concern I have at this point is pricing. I have a Passat V6 and the A3 ($25-30K) is very close to the price I paid for it ($28K). As nice as the A3 is, the Passat is better equiped for the same money.
I guess you're paying a lot extra for the engine, but torque isn't high on my priority list. So, this may not be the car for me. But I'd have to wait until November for the new GTI... the Civic Si's insurance is astronomical... and the RSX-S (my type of engine) doesn't have the interior space I want.
Hey about Haldex... it doesn't sound like it would powerslide well, would it?
And carlisimo: no way! If you were ever seriously thinking about following through with that plan, it would be much better to get the sport suspension that Audi engineers designed especially for the car, and get the leather seats reupholstered in cloth, which anyone can do - it is not an engineering issue.
I wish Audi were one of those companies that are now going to begin offering cloth as a no-cost option on lots of models, like Mercedes is.
ian: I agree, the Passat makes a compelling alternative to this car, but only IF you don't mind buying a sedan. For that matter, so do a number of other sedans, including the A4, which also will have the 2.0T soon if you want it. I dislike sedans - I would go to no small lengths to NOT own a sedan. Now, if we talk wagons for a minute, then the line gets fuzzy. But nice wagons in this range cost more than A3 by a fair margin, except maybe the Jetta wagon, and I have not seen any word yet whether the new Jetta just now arriving will be available in a wagon again?
Not to mention, wagons are generally bigger, whereas the A3 is a hatch - just the right size! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There will be a new Passat Wagon!
" For that matter, so do a number of other sedans, including the A4,"
There is a new version of a Audi A4 Avant Wagon.
"except maybe the Jetta wagon, and I have not seen any word yet whether the new Jetta just now arriving will be available in a wagon again? "
There will be a new version of a Jetta Wagon.
Dewey, wagons aren't exactly the same thing. They're awfully long, which affects how they feel. And as for looks, hatchbacks have short rear overhangs and that's an important part of their look, imo.
My mistake Nippononly, thought you were talking about wagons, not hatches! Pardon mon Anglais!
Also it's nice to know that there is someone who agrees with me about cloth seats. My BMW323i is one those rare BMWs with cloth seats(I would not have it any other way)
Nippon: Comp test to an outgoing IS? Dirty pool old man, dirty pool! She was still a winner in MY 2003 in my book, but there were others nipping hard even then! She's old my friend, and others have passed her by. Still, my wagon is the best compact RWD wagon in this country says I!
I will test a 2.0T, given all the positive press here. And I'm fairly certain that if the A3 makes sense, I'll also go DSG, depending on the test drive. It's almost too impressive on paper not to! Whatever wins, any A3 I might want will have to be special ordered. The two colors I like are SO only!
I also found the driver's seat (leather, power, with adjustable lumbar) to be quite good, but the passenger seat left a bit to be desired - - I went and tested the car with a slightly sore back. My standard is that if my back relaxes it is a good seat, and if it doesn't, I will probably be miserable on long trips. Granted, I am over 50, and am probably more sensitive to seat quallity than some might be. The longer I rode in the passenger seat, the better it felt. I am going back and testing the sport seat, since the completely non-power, no-lumbar-adjustment seat in the TT works just great for me . . .maybe this is the answer.
Summary: $30K is a fairly big chunk of change. I was not overwhelmed by this car - - found it somewhat cheap compared to my 2002 A4 - - but when I see what else I can buy for 30K, and all the things lacking in the competition, I still think this is my next ride.
Also, one last point: if you think turbo lag is bad, and it really is almost gone in the 2.0, check out how long it takes the RS-X and every other honda engine to hit its torque curve. miserable. step on the gas and nothing happens. it is not until you have the engine screaming that you can make power shifts. While this might be satisfying to rice rocket types, it has very little to do with every-day driving in traffic, which is why I will not buy another car from Honda/Acura until they re-orient their thinking away from high-revving racecar style engines to powerplants that can pull away from a stoplight with finesse.
I dearly wish Lexus would pop out a stick shift IS250 SportCross - at $30K. I would find the extra $5K to get RWD over FWD, even as much as I like the A3. banadan makes a good point about torque steering the A3 when trying to accelerate rapidly away from a right turn - there is enough power there to unsettle the car if you really gas it.
As for the pecking order, it is hatch - wagon - sedan for me. I would take a wagon over a sedan, but I would much rather have a hatch than both, so for me the question of the A4 Avant and the Jetta and Passat wagons is kind of moot.
Up until now I have loved the "screamer" approach to power that Honda has taken, and there are a lot of things about my RSX that I am very fond of. But the main reason for picking such an engine is to get outstanding fuel economy out of it when you are just commuting and staying off the gas, while having a car that is an absolute blast on the occasions when I get a chance to really open it up. However, if the EPA ratings on the A3 are to be believed, turbos have reached the point where you can have the best of both worlds. I think direct injection has played a large role in that, and if you believe Audi, they are the first ones to bring a direct injection turbo to the street.
I still don't know what to think about the fact that many turbos nowadays, including the A3, don't have a boost gauge, which I think should be standard, and what I can expect in terms of longevity from a turbo - I do know they are much better than the (what I would call) short-lived German and Swedish turbos of the 1980s.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Meanwhile I'm realizing that every car company in the world must hate me. The perfect combination of engine and car shape for me is the Civic type-R (high revving engine, nice backseats) but it's not sold here. I could live with the Civic Si, but my favorite color for it (red) is only sold in Canada. From VW, I much prefer the 3-door A3 to the 5-door, but I'd rather get a 5-door GTI than a 3-door (and in colors we're not gonna get). Looking at the Mazda3, my favorite colors were yellow and sunset orange... both of which have been discontinued this year. Focus SVT... dead before I entered the buying market, not enough sold to find a used one. And that's pretty much what I'm considering.
Loved your review, btw. The steering dead spot description leaves me cold though. Is that a US-specific "feature"? DSG question... when you're idling, is it technically in neutral? How does the shift to first feel?
1. Subaru Impreza WRX Wgn: you loose leather, sunroof and some nice additions (maintenance, xenon etc.), but you get a superior AWD (please don't tell me Audi's Haldex would be better, because it would not; Torsen - perhaps, but not Haldex), killer performance, killer handling, and couple of grand in your pocket. Not to mention much better reliability record. Also, interior improved a lot from previous years.
2. Saab 9-2X Aero: you hall all above, but you can get leather, sunroof, a bit quieter interior, 4-year warranty and maintenance. If you are lucky and patient, Saab drops heavy (I mean HEAVY) incentives from time to time, like 3-5 grand.
3. Acura RSX-S: well, different body type, but pretty good equipment, rear full hatch allows a single person to get almost similar utility as with a five-door hatchback. And great price.
4. Volvo V50 T5: OK, you need to cross $30K for good config, but so you do with A3. It also has Haldex AWD available, so no big fuss here, either. And have you seen the interior?
5. VW Passat Wagon (future model): we don't know their pricing, but I don't think they'll dare to depart deeper into 30s: too much Japanese competition.
6. Subaru Legacy GT/GT Limited: Again, superior (to Haldex) AWD, great performance, nice interior. Of course lacks some options, but hey, how much is Audi going to ask for 3.2 AWD with nav, xenon, and sunroof?
7. Mazda6 5-door/wagon V6: little down on some aspects, but still remains an option for "value-oriented" people.
I think there is plenty of competition and there will be more. I was myself stuck on A3 quattro 3.2/A4 Avant 3.2 as my next car, but with their recent prices, I started thinking "thanks, but no thanks".
Don't get me wrong - Audi has plenty to go for, but they need to know who their target is. It used to be people who have some money to spend, but not to throw it away (those went straight to BMW or MB, not even trying others). Somebody like single young engineers: wanting "premium" but sensitive to value, i.e. content-to-price ratio, making decent money, but not enough to jump at a badge without looking what is really inside. They like tech talk, they like the badge, but they don't like to be ripped off and they always keep their options open. Those people are being left behind by Audi.
So who is their new target? Rich kids? Young lawyers from big firms? New doctors after their residency? Perhaps but how do you make them to stop by on their way to BMW and MB dealerships? AWD with Haldex/Torsen? Is it some new hot Swedish fashion designers in New York? Tiptronic/Multitronic? What are those, some new countries in Asia or Eastern Europe? Oh, turbo! I heard, the newest pills in town, they rock, man! Direct injection? No thank you, I already had a flu shot this year!
Now seriously: Audi has great styling, gorgeous interiors, superb content, but is it enough to lure the "new audience" willing to pay this much? Perhaps, but the new prices are definitely enough to disenchant their "old" following, like me.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So Saturday I drove a stipped 6mt Audi A3. 25k sticker and it's got the normal bits one expects but no frills...so no xenon, moon, leather, etc.
First thing I notice, the door handles are flip up style. Pet peeve as I hate that type of handle and prefer pull handles like those on my 330i and my prior Jetta sported.
Fabric is decent. Much like the fabric in my old Jetta. Again, not gonna worry about it as I wouldn't buy a car and keep fabric. If the leather matches the A4, awesome.
In the base model the seats operate like a Jetta's so that dumb crank system and the even more idiotic rotary dial are used to change the seat's height and back angle. I was told the leather seats are power. They better be. Why VA/Audi can't make normal manual seats is a mystery for the ages.
Interior materials felt pretty much like a last gen jetta. not bad considering that car still has a better interior than most cars. Compared to the MZ3, the A3's got the interior feel perfect. But the layout has problems. Mainly the footwell is narrow and the center console is really wide. Even sitting still I noticed it was near impossible to put my small size 10 shoe to the floorboard with the clutch engaged. Additionally, my right knee was always pressed against the console. Argh. Mazda3 is simply more comfortable from a driver ergonomics position. Maybe leather/power seats would help a bit but not help the narrowness and intrusive firewall..
Rearward visibility = horrid. The back window is tiny and the design seems to funnel toward the back. mirrors on the outside are of a decent size so they help a bit with lane changes. Still I thought visibility in my BMW was awful, but the A3 is much worse - another case of design over function. Mazda3 is leaps better in this regard. Forward visibility is fine and while looking forward it reminds me a lot of my old Jetta.
I pulled out of the lot and onto a road. Couple things sprang to mind. Oh, Germans know how to dampen a suspension just right. You feel the road but it's not jarring. Very sublime. Quiet too and the 2.0 FSI is pulling nicely even at 2k rpm. And finally, where is second? Argh, that small footwell space makes it impossible to press the clutch to the floor and this car won't find a gear unless that pedal is smashed to the floor. Maybe it's an abused test model? Perhaps newer ones have clutches that work sooner and better?
Underway and accelerating more tidbits came to me. The shifter mechanism is far better than the models I've tried from Audi/VW in the past. But the clutch is becoming a nightmare. And my knee is always banging against the center console! But feel that 2.0. Oh it's like buttery heaven. It just pulls without a hint of any peakiness - I miss this feel compared to the horrid engine response in BMW's peaky inline 6s.
On the freeway the small rearward visibility is grating on my nerves. I'm in a bright red car doing 90 and I can't see half the cars behind me through that periscope like back window! Lane changes are based more on, "just passed that guy", glance, it appears he's not there, try mirrors, cross fingers, change lanes. I didn't hit anyone but man I felt like it might happen.
At 85 mph in 6th gear the car turns over 3k rpm. Nice. Audi/VW finally realized cruising gears are a good thing. Even at 90 I depressed the gas and the car swiftly accelerated. Can't do that in my 330i - drop to 4th from 6th for that maneuver.
The car's quiet too. We're at 85+, no radio, dual zone climate is working and the car is quiet (for me). too quiet. I prefer more hustle and bustle but at least it's not loud. More aggressive muffler could help. but it's not a deal breaker.
Handling was hard to judge for two reasons. 1 the clutch was such a pain that I couldn't do too much in the way of spirited stuff and keep the car in the proper gear. 2 the 10 mile route just didn't offer much in the way of switchbacks and turns.. The car felt planted and very much like my old Jetta. A tad more nimble but this was a base model, so I'm hoping the lowered, more aggressive sport package with 18s will make the car feel more alive. Also this was FWD (not a fave of mine).
Room in front was decent. Room in back was tight and the back seat on the base model felt like it could be cardboard covered with fabric. Yuck! Are leather models better? Not sure.
Pros: nice ride, superb engine.
Cons: no rearward visibility, bad back seats, horrible footwell, large center console intrudes on knee space.
I will have to try a leather, DSG equipped 2.0 - maybe quattro too. At this point the Mazda3 2.3 is more fun due to the better seating, visibility and great shifter/clutch setup. But the Audi certainly felt more upscale and buttoned down. Almost like what it is, an entry level luxury sport wagon. Put that 2.0 in the Mazda and it'd be a match in heaven!
Subaru is out for me. I respect the line and the credentials, but they're just too funky for me to look at every day, even in Legacy trim. I had hopes for the 9-2x, but after seeing it in the skin, well, I think it's kinda ugly too. Ditto on the Volvo. I liked to pics at first, but when I got up next to one, it's a chunky l'il monkey, and the stats aren't all that great. I might drive it comparo-style anyway, but that's a long-shot.
Not a lot of real competition there IMO. If a 1-series hatch or touring makes it here, then that's something I might jump to. An extra few grand for a hot inline six and RWD is something I'd pay.
If it's FWD, Mazda seems like an alternative to me. But I'm not doing FWD...
II am only going for a test drive when the Quattro arrives. Also sometime next month I hope to test drive the new A4 Avant Quattro and the BMW e90 during the same day.
I am perhaps more "from inside to outside" person. Kind of three stage approach: first: it is enough to look OK, next is widely defined content including reliability (what good is a car that sits in a garage?) and then back to styling as a tiebreaker. Thus, the list of potential alternatives/competition.
That's why I'm crying after A4: I just got a bit closer and they just run away
2018 430i Gran Coupe
WRX: a fast car when the turbo is turning, which you will wait forever for. The inside is cheap, cheap, and did I mention cheap? I will not spend more than my current car to go three or four steps back DOWN the cheapness scale on the interior. To WRX's credit, this is a very old model and the new one arrives in the fall, something I hope Audi is mindful of.
9-2x Aero - same turbo lag problem, new day. The interior is slightly better (taken from the current Forester), still missing many amenities of the Audi. And it's a Saab, which will probably be mismanaged to death by GM in a few short years leaving me where?
RSX-S - basically the car I have now with a more peaky powertrain. I want four doors again, or I wouldn't be looking.
Volvo V50 - NOW we're talking, a sweet car. Oh wait, no manual available? Bye bye.
Passat wagon - yeah, well I brought up wagons before. I would prefer a hatch, and look at the Passat wagon - already big and priced higher than the A3. With the way VW has skyrocketed the prices on the new Jetta, don't you think they will do the same for the new Passat? So we could easily be looking at $33-35K for the base price on the next Passat wagon. I would actually consider the current wagon, but again it is a bit big for my tastes, and I am not the biggest fan of the 1.8T.
Legacy GT wagon - big. Sedan is...a sedan. Both cost more than the A3, and have some typically funky Subaru touches. Fuel economy is much lower than the A3. Subaru has improved a great deal over the years, but I am beginning to wonder if they will always be a little behind the pack on interiors. For the $17K I spent on my Outback Sport eight years ago, I didn't mind the low-grade interior. If I am spending $25 or more (will almost certainly be more for the Legacy GT), I DO care.
Mazda6 V6 hatch - perhaps the closest competitor that I didn't drive. Gets a little pricey, but Mazda offers cash back. Hard to find manuals in stock at dealers. It is bigger than the A3, but not huge. EVERY review I have read says you have to rev the spit out of the Duratec 3.0 in this car to get the power. The nice thing about the A3's turbo is you don't have to - power is everywhere on the dial. And again, fuel economy of the V-6 Mazda6 is low (even lower than the Legacy GT, isn't it?). Plus, Mazda would have to make magic out of FWD the way Audi has with this car, or it would be out. I may yet test drive the Mazda though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
WOuld be perfect if Volvo could stick it in the V50!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As for the rear vision thing, I would respectfully suggest that this is a common problem for anyone coming from a sedan to a hatchback. I used to have a Matrix, and when I would lend it to my friends who normally drive sedans, that would ALWAYS be their comment upon its return: "how do you see out of the back of this thing, visibility is awful!".
For awful rearward visibility, try driving the current Celica sometime (I had one for a few months): tiny rear window, huge high butt that points your line of sight up in the air, and a spoiler that neatly bisects the (very narrow) field of view.
As for the A3, and as a point of reference for me and others that have had hatches in the past, rearward visibility is better than in the Matrix I used to have. Not a lot, but definitely better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For comparison, you can drive the T5 sedan.
DL
I wonder if the problem came from the car being a demo model. The clutch was probably beaten to heck. :confuse:
I will try the car again. Well twice more - DSG and with the V6.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
With rising beltlines and other styling/space utilization priorities, I do indeed find rear views compromised a bit these days. I'll have to do my test drive to see if this is a step up or not!
On styling: I need to be hooked, personally. I can approach it from an inside-out vantage, but even if I'm happy inside, I have to be happy standing in the driveway after the damp towels and polish cloths are put away too. A3 definitely hooked me from the get-go, even with that schnozz. ;-}
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, it definitely was before '05. I know, cause I own '03
Apparently A3 hits the mark for you. I just don't like paying 25.5K for cloth FWD 200 hp or almost $40 for leather DSG 255 hp AWD (I am guessing here but seeing how Audi priced their recent products, I think I'm close) $40K! Just too much at each end. Drop it by 2 grand at low point and say 3-4 grand at the high point and then I would agree with "no competition" statement.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The handicap that the WRX has working against it is that it is at the top of a line of Imprezas that share interiors for the most part and start way down at like $18K or so. OTOH, the A3 goes UP from $25K, not down, and has to have an interior that still satisfies at $35K - a much higher standard.
And I think there is other good competition for the A3 too, I didn't mean to imply there wasn't. I don't think the A3 competes that well at stickers over $30K or so - other very good models begin to go head to head with it. But at $25K it is kind of in a limbo with few competitors - the ones we noted above. And it is the nicest of the lot by at least a nose (the huge schnozz actually!) IMO. :-)
That is based on my parameters of course - I prefer cloth. I had sworn to myself that I would never again spend more than my current car for FWD, but the Audi has me rethinking that avowal - it definitely masks the fact that it is a front driver very well.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But, I did notice that the center stack intruded enough that my leg was up against it. I actually don't mind this, if it is padded, but I don't think the A3 was.
I would have to drive it again and pay more attention. Some things you don't notice on a test drive, but are big issues on a longer trip or living with it every day.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.