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I haven't bought chewing gum in years :surprise: dear God I can't even afford to buy chewing gum
To be truthful the only reason I am not driving a new car is that my car is running trouble free. So why go through the expense of buying a new car? Can I afford a new one? sure. Are there other things I rather do with my money? Yes. Does that mean I don't know who to get a good deal on a car? No.
There is one difference between someone driving a 6-10 year old car and someone driving a brand new car - car payments :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It is said that Sam Walton, founder of Wal-Mart, drove around in an old pick up truck.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess some folks get a thrill/rush or whatever out of always owning a new car, and sacrifice in other areas to do so (referring to the non-wealthy).
I am getting ready to build a new house - my boss can't understand why my wife and I don't build a house at the absolute top end of my budget. I try to explain that while my wife and I want a nice house, we don't want to be eating peanut butter and jelly every night, and we don't want to be stuck at home because we can't afford a vacation. He just doesn't understand that.
He says he has so much money because he's always made a conscious decision to live below his means. Smart man.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That being said you should be able to get a 2007 for $1,000 - 1,200 under sticker, and 2006's for under invoice.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know several millionaires ... they don't have a car. They prefer the horse and buggy. (No, I am not kidding.)
That is for sure....oddly enough the higher you go up the food chain the more normal the cars they drive. It's the near-do-well's wells and wannabees that have a need to impress everyone with their fancy cars...The guy who comes in and buy's a gran Marquis usually has a big load in the bank...If the guy leasing a new navigator misses one paycheck and their world comes crashing down. I see it every day.
Well honey, we have to eat corn flakes tonight, but we have nice cars in the garage. :P
You may see a couple of different variations on this theme. You may see "customer service fee" as well. The "Doc" will always be clearly shown on your buyer's order. They may gloss over it, but it is there.
Ever bought a house?? It's like an underwriting fee, or a credit charge fee. I've never seen so many junk fees before until I purchased a house.
Suze, I'm in Georgia. Have you purchased your Fit yet?
-Moo
P.S. I just caught up with quotes. Congratulations, Suze!
I had no idea how old you are, but if anybody could benefit from having an extra $1000-2000, it's a young person.
Sometimes it's wise to learn from your elders, even if they aren't necessarily that much older than you. If you are buying Sonatas at sticker, then you could benefit from some tips and tricks that will save you money next time.
A farmer in my home village paid cash for a new Cadillac Coupe de Ville many years ago. Some of the neighbors were horrified when they saw him drive the new car out into his fields and said to him "If I had a Cadillac, I would not drive it out into the dirty fields".
His reply: "Hell, that damn Cadillac is no better than I am. If I can go out and work in the fields, so can the Cadillac". :shades:
His reply: "Hell, that damn Cadillac is no better than I am. If I can go out and work in the fields, so can the Cadillac".
Isn't it amazing how so many people think more of their inanimate possessions than they do of themselves and their loved ones? Pretty sick isn't it? I'm convinced the ones who do this are the ones who are trying to impress all around them who might be looking at what "I have". The ones who don't have to impress anyone are the ones who really get it.
I've stopped trying to understand the ones who like to impress. Just don't want them too close to me.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
As my late Father once said...."there's always going to be someone richer than you (unless, I guess, you're Bill Gates....but I doubt he comes in here for buying advice)...better looking than you.....meaner than you....deal with it".
My Father was the person who taught me to "budget"...not only expenses, but savings, too. If you're overshooting your car budget (or any part of your budget), then it's time to lower your expectations. He was a stickler on a "savings" budget, too. I won't get into savings schemes you can look at. When I was a teen and in my twenties, it was hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when it came to savings, but staying the course, years later, I could see what he was talking about.
Looking back, did I miss anything by sticking to a strict budget? Not really. Matter of fact, whenever life threw some curve balls at me, I was glad I stuck to the budget.
Same for cars....I knew my "wants" for the type of car I wanted when I was young went unfulfilled (who wouldn't have wanted a hot new sports car when they're in their 20s?). But, now...did I really miss anything? Nope...especially not at the expense of having money set aside for my son's education, or my "more expensive" tastes in cars these days.
To me, having that "more expensive" car, with the "bling" wheels, at a young age....one that doesn't "fit" the budget, is a road that's bumpy and not easily overcome...particularly when you start getting into negative equity situations that's hard to break the pattern on. And, to serve what end?
Even today, living around some people in my area, I can see what audia8q is saying. There are several people/families who are just one tragedy or one missed paycheck away from losing everything. The first thing that would be repo'd would be their car(s). IF someone in the neighborhood buys a BMW 3 series, they have to have a 7 Series. If someone has a pool, they have to have a bigger pool. It's funny to watch....really....and sad, at the same time.
I know what you’re talking about here. I did it twice (two sons) and I’m sure some out there have done or will be doing it for more. Just have to start planning early. Real early. However, there is a price to pay for this because I was never able to impress any of my neighbors with fancy cars every other year. Strange, but I never missed a day of work because of car problems.
Priorities, those darn things just kept getting in the way. Years later and I still don’t like them although I do have less of them.
How will I ever get out of this rut?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Cars are expensive. People are cheap. :P
I mean, really. People are produced by unskilled labor all the time. You just don't get that in the auto industry (except for the Yugo, that is...)
(In Victorian England you got a longer prison term for ruining a person's clothing than assaulting him. And for the same principle as above.)
"Failing to plan is planning to fail". Things rarely turn out as planned. But, having some "cushion" and being smart with money will blunt the blow of life's "gotchas".
One of our mfg's is offering a special "auto show" rebate but not on all models and only for the dealers nearest/working the show.
Just wondering if anyone has any scoop on buying between now and the end of November. Are dealers more interested in making a deal over the holiday weekend (perhaps there is slow traffic)? Or is closer to the end of the month (27th through the 30th) best? Or, maybe it doesn't matter! Thanks in advance.
Avoiding weekends can also be helpful, as your deal will look more appealing when there aren't a lot of customers on the showroom floor to choose from, so I would tend to avoid a 4-day weekend when people tend to be on a spending frenzy.
That being said, good negotiation skills don't go out the window just because you're shopping on a weekday evening on the last day of a given month. And I wouldn't rub this in their faces by making "I know that you need to hit your numbers" comments, just negotiate as you otherwise should.
Dealers may squeak a lower deal if they're slow. But, unless you've done some "sleuth" work, you won't know if they've been busier before you showed up.
Still, I think a "good deal" can be struck no matter when you shop. They are their to sell cars, no matter when it is. Go when it's convenient for you.
The cost of the car increases every day that the dealer holds it because the dealership pays financing charges (called floor plan) to hold inventory.
It is better for a dealer to sell a car more quickly than less quickly, to sell more cars than fewer cars, and to make the sale than to have some other dealer make the sale, instead. If the car is highly popular and in short supply, then the dealer can afford to hold out for the next customer, but if not, then the end of the month might just be enough of a motivator to do a lowball deal just to hit a target. It's not guaranteed, but it's more likely to happen than at other times of the month.
How long does it take to say yes or no? Surely less time than it took me to type those words and I'm sure I'm one of the slowest typers on this board. The longer you're there the more chance the dealer has of getting the upper hand, sales people have actually confirmed this right here on this board, so you don't have to take my word for it. So why lose any bargaining advantage by sticking around?
Its just the most rediculous thing I've heard.
I disagree, it's probably one of the smartest things to do when buying a car.
Of course all of the above only applies when you have done your homework and know what price will buy a car. If you're fishing for a good price by entering into a negotiating process with a sales person you will always lose that battle.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A good negotiator gains an advantage with time, while a bad one who allows him/herself to be dazzled by four-squares and babble will do worse. It depends on which category you fall into.
It helps to remember that if you don't buy a car on a given day, it should be no big deal for you. But if a dealership doesn't sell a car, the inventory is aging and racking up costs, while the salesperson is one step closer to missing a target and is motivated to find a way to convert that invested time into a sale. There's a lot more pressure for a salesperson to sell than there is for a buyer to buy, and a good negotiator exploits this.
The smart buyer will understand this and use time effectively and against the seller. Lowball deals within an acceptable range start looking better to the dealership when the alternative is to have spent a fair amount of time on a serious customer, only to lose this customer who would have bought otherwise. They won't want to invest all that time just to have that buyer get that same deal from somebody else.
I don't know if I'm a good negotiator or a bad negotiator because I don't negotiate. I do my homework to get a price and then give that price to a dealer. He says yes or no and the process is over just that fast. I guess you can say this is a modified 'bobst method' (I don't write the check until the dealer confirms the offer, I don't like writing unless I have to).
I've purchased two cars over the last year and a half and this is how I've done it. Both times I got my price or they wouldn't be sitting in my garage and I can assure you they were well below Edmunds TMV. Too many dealers selling too many cars for me to fall in love with any of them.
I am not a believer in spending a lot of time at a dealership when I have had success doing it the faster way. I'm not saying my way is the best but I am saying spending a lot of time negotiating is not the best way either.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would agree that spending time, in and of itself and without a game plan, is not effective, either -- sitting at the dealership with a stopwatch is not a strategy.
That being said, you don't get the best deal in the first five minutes, either.
The dealerships have methods that they will try to use to close you. They would much prefer if you were a payment buyer -- it's much easier to manipulate the deal terms if you are -- but if you are a price-oriented buyer, the dealer will make an effort to get you to name the first price, then bump it up from there.
The thing is that the dealer has learned through experience and training that prices can often be bumped upward, so they make the effort. Since a salesperson's job is to overcome objections -- to turn "no" into "yes" -- they don't just assume that the price can't be increased in some way, that's not what they're paid to do.
So you aren't going to get the best price at the very beginning, because the dealership hasn't had a chance to take its best shot. If you want the best price, you need to dealer to try its tricks and have them fail before they will give up with the lowest price.
All of us have had the emotional experience of compromising by throwing in the towel and accepting terms after a prolonged period that we would not have accepted immediately at the beginning. This same thing applies to selling cars as well -- the dealers are unlikely to just give them away in the first two minutes of talking to you. That doesn't mean that you need to spend ten hours haggling, but it's not realistic to think that 5-10 minutes is going to be enough, either.
That being said, you don't get the best deal in the first five minutes, either.
I never said 5 minutes but I know what you mean. I’m not that inhumane. I know it takes more than 5 minutes to get approval from a higher authority but nothing longer than 30 minutes that’s for sure. Unless you’ve tried it how do you know? Like I’ve said before, I have tried the faster method and it works for me. Why are you trying to convince me and maybe others that my way is wrong and your way is right? Don’t you believe there is more than one way to skin a cat? If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re not so sure of your method but you would like to convince someone. Kinda like misery loves company. Really, there is more than one way to do it.
but if you are a price-oriented buyer, the dealer will make an effort to get you to name the first price, then bump it up from there.
I’m beginning to think that our disagreement stems from your not understanding what I said in a previous post. Therefore, I’ll repeat, “I have a price that the dealer must meet, he says yes or no and that’s it. No bumping permitted”. Case closed, no need to ever mention this again. OK?
So you aren't going to get the best price at the very beginning, because the dealership hasn't had a chance to take its best shot. If you want the best price, you need to dealer to try its tricks and have them fail before they will give up with the lowest price.
I’ve pretty much answered this also but one more time to make it clear (I hope):
The above is game playing and since I don’t do it I don’t have to listen to this stuff.
All of us have had the emotional experience of compromising by throwing in the towel and accepting terms after a prolonged period that we would not have accepted immediately at the beginning.
This goes even further toward explaining why we disagree. I have never been anywhere close to being “emotional” about buying a car. I know that it is “emotional” for some but lets face it, this is a business decision not something that effects our families well being. A car is a piece of sheet metal on wheels not flesh and blood.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The car purchase dance begins with the introductory salesman schmooze and the test drive. If you include this as part of the negotiation process -- and this is part of it, don't believe otherwise -- then that alone is going to take perhaps 20-30 minutes.
The above is game playing and since I don't do it I don't have to listen to this stuff.
I wasn't commenting on what you do personally, but what needs to be done to get the dealer's best number. The dealer needs to exhaust his bag of tricks and believe that you will leave if the price is a penny higher if you are going to get the best price. Just as you don't get to walk to first after one ball in a baseball game, they aren't going to show you the bottom line price at the beginning of the negotiation.
Of course, this requires that you use the negotiation process to bump the price downward, rather than let the dealership move it upward. You can and should use the same tactics on them that they would use on you.
This goes even further toward explaining why we disagree. I have never been anywhere close to being emotional about buying a car.
It's not about your emotions, it's about the emotional desire of the dealership's staff to turn its time investment into you, the customer, into a commission and a closed sale. They don't spend their time with you kicking tires and serving you coffee just so you can leave them emptyhanded. It's a competitive business, and sales are one way of keeping score.
You should take advantage of their motivations to sell by understanding that the more time that they commit to completing your sale, the more eager they become to close it.
Have you noticed that we aren’t getting anywhere with this discussion? We just keep going round and round. I’m not trying to convince you that my way is better and your way is wrong. I’ve said too many times already that there is more than one way to buy a car.
Your way works for you and my way works for me. It’s just that simple.
No need to discuss this any further and I’m not going to. I’m out. :sick:
Whew,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Anyone who has been around here for a while has had this thought pop into their cranium. Some think it is the same guy. I don't really care but the genes are eerily similar.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Not always because to do that usually involves selling at a lower cost. Tell me in the same amount of time would you rather sell 3 cars at a $25 profit each or one car at a $100 profit?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
typically yes, but thats not my point. My point is is that a car purchase should not take that long (the actual negotiations) if one has taken the time to research the car they are buying. If you researched the car properly and the dealer isn't being a jerk there should not be much of a spread between the two at the start. From there it really is a very simple negotiation and it shouldn't take long at all.
It sounds like you treat car salesmen like convicts instead of humans. If you walk in and stick by your guns you may get the price your looking for in all aspects (new car, trade, finance).
Not at all, I just try not to insult their intelligence by making ridiculous offers like asking for that Lexus with nothing down and $300/month.
But you don't you need to treat the dealer poorly by giving them 15 minutes at most. Its just the most rediculous thing I've heard.
Actually I said a half hour, long before then you should know if the deal is workable. Go any longer and time is working against you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yes if you're doing something like the Paris Peace accords. But we are talking buying a car. In that case a good negotiator knows the value of their time and acts accordingly. Using time against the ones you are negotiating with only works when time is far more important to them than it is to you and when their is no alternative.
In the case of car sales (or buying a car) a good negotiator will get the deal quickly. A poor negotiator will drag it out and try to use time.
But if a dealership doesn't sell a car,
they will just move on to the next customer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Instead, once you make clear to a dealer that you are serious and have some market knowledge, the dealer will either:
A) Treat you like any other customer coming in off the street by playing one or more of an endless variety of games (in which case you should head for the door) or
I wouldn't say it counts for squat,
Treat you like any other customer coming in off the street by playing one or more of an endless variety of games (in which case you should head for the door) or
No not head for the door just don't play the game, thats where some negotiation skills come into play.
Move to conclude the transaction very quickly by offering a straightforward and reasonable quote with no fuss.
Again some negotiations could bring that price down a bit. Doesn't take much but it will work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So, is a dealer trade or a long distance negotiation more likely to result in the lowest price?
I would do the dealer trade, long distance negotiations can turn ugly if you get someone who plays games.