Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

snakeweasel · March 2007

Actually Pizza hut is a franchise so its the individual owner making that policy.

joel0622 · March 2007

Actually Pizza hut is a franchise so its the individual owner making that policy.

So then what you are saying is that it may be only that one Pizza Hut store and not all pizza hut stores. And you can't judge all Pizza Store owners by the action of this one.

Those are great words to live by. They would apply to some of the other things discussed here to. Like Car Dealerships and the people who work in them.

jmonroe · March 2007

edible pizza.

Then why were you at Pizza Hut?

You got that right.

I like pizza but that place is enough to make you lose your taste for it and to prove it I've tortured myself by trying it at various shops in a couple different cities but no more, I'm done with that. :sick:

I'm going to a local privately owned place for dinner right now.

jmonroe

jipster · March 2007

Then why were you at Pizza Hut?

I'm guessing he was hungry.

snakeweasel · March 2007

So then what you are saying is that it may be only that one Pizza Hut store and not all pizza hut stores. And you can't judge all Pizza Store owners by the action of this one.

Nope just saying that its not to make Pizza Huts big wigs rich since it doesn't affect them. All Pizza Huts are crummy.

snakeweasel · March 2007

But he wanted an edible pizza, they cannot be found at Pizza Hut.

badman2 · March 2007

The pizza was edible. I though Pizza Hut was Americas favorite pizza.

I guess you guys must be chucky-cheese fans, huh.

snakeweasel · March 2007

Naw, I just like good (or even decent) pizza. FWIW we went to Connies (a good place for pizza) and we went past a Pizza Hut. Connies had a crowd while the lot at Pizza Hut was pretty barren.

badman2 · March 2007

Connies huh,

must be from Chi town.

wish i could go back there, you wouldn't believe I grew up in the burbs, before I was banished to the east coast just south of the mason-dixon line. Pizza hut is all we got out here.

snakeweasel · March 2007

must be from Chi town.

You win a Churchill.

jmonroe · March 2007

...I was banished to the east coast just south of the mason-dixon line. Pizza hut is all we got out here.

I know what you mean, I lived in South Carolina in the mid 90's. They had all the chain Pizza shops but they didn't know what a real Pizza shop was.

Although there were lots of 'mom and pop' pulled pork Bar-BQ places. :surprise:

jmonroe

jipster · March 2007

But he wanted an edible pizza...

Edible means able to be eaten... so under the criteria of food this Pizza Hut pizza is clearly edible. Now if he had said he wanted something to eat that didn't make him puke... then you may have a case.

saver1 · March 2007

Hi everyone. I'm new to the site today so if I step on any toes or miss the etiquette, please be kind and correct me!

I am a single older woman looking to trade in my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon for a small gas efficient car. I love the all wheel drive of the Subaru but I live on a big hill and my gas mileage is only 19 mpg, I think due to the weight of the car up & down that hill... My car has under 57k miles on it, clean inside & out.

I have read up a bit on the Nissan Versa, the Toyota Matrix and the Scion. Any tips on how to get the best deal? Should I trade in to the place I bought my car or go to the dealer who has the car I want after test driving?

Also, is it better to let them know I'm trading in first or select the buy car and negotiate a price then bring up the trade in?

All advice welcome!

snakeweasel · March 2007

Edible means able to be eaten

It also means able to keep it down, provide nourshement and not make you ill or dead.

Rat poison can be eaten but it certainly not edible.

jmonroe · March 2007

Hi everyone. I'm new to the site today so if I step on any toes or miss the etiquette, please be kind and correct me!

Let me be the first to apologize. You came to a car forum for advice about buying a car but you ended up in the middle of a Pizza discussion, go figure. When things are slow here (like on the weekend) well talk about anything except other posters family members and their pets.

Im sure youll get lots of help.

Let me start with why you want a new car. If its mainly for better fuel economy, you arent going to win that battle. The money you save in getting better gas mileage will be more than offset many times in the purchase of any car. The depreciation alone on your existing car will shock you.

Ill allow others here (I dont want to hog the whole discussion) to talk about what is the best way to go about buying if you are still interested. Youre going to get a lot of good advice once the weekend is over.

Good luck.

jmonroe

tallman1 · March 2007

To answer one of your questions... it is better to negotiate the new car price first. Keep the trade separate. Dealers may give you a screaming deal on the new car but make up for it by giving you less than your old car is worth in trade.

boomchek · March 2007

Welcome to the forums, saver1.

Jmonroe is right about the whole situation. If you are in the market for a new car just because you'd like something new, then go for it.

But if it's to save gas, you have to calculate if it's worth it for you, based on the price of your trade in, the difference you have to pay, etc.

Look at it this way:

You won't do a straight trade (Subie for the new car), and chances are you won't get enough money from a private sale of your car to cover the whole purchase amount.

So if you shell out $2000, $5000, or even $10000 to get the new car, think how much gas you could have bought with that money.

If you do decide to go for the car, it might be worth trading it in if your state has tax savings provisions on trade (purchase price, minus trade, plus taxes), cause that way you may be able to avoid the hassle of private sale, and get similar amount of money for your car.

madmanmoo · March 2007

Hi Saver1,

The good news is...their is hardly any markup on any of the vehicles that you are looking at. If you don't want to negotiate on the price of the new car, you'll still be doing great. FYI, you can't negotiate on Scions.

The old "hide the trade" trick really doesn't matter. What you pay for the vehicle and what they give you for your car will be very apparent. It will all be listed on the buyer's order.

Just do a little research on Edmunds and see what your car is worth and what the vehicles you are looking to purchase go for. If the dealers match up with those numbers, then you are doing fine.

Good luck with the car and buy a Versa!

-Moo

graphicguy · March 2007

saver1....first, welcome.

I have to agree with most....if you're looking for a financial benefit by trading in your Subie becasue of gas mileage, you can't. As was pointed out, the amount of money you'll have to put out to get the new car, even with better MPG, won't equal what you'll save in gas.

That said, if you want a new car, then by all means, go have a look see at what you're interested in.

Scion is strictly MSRP pricing structure. No negotiations.

The Matrix can be negotiated. Not sure about the Versa, as it's a relatively new model at your Nissan store.

Best thing to do is to go look at what you really want, narrow down the options. Then, come back here and we'll be able to help more once you decide that.

Good luck.

jlawrence01 · March 2007

The Matrix can be negotiated. Not sure about the Versa, as it's a relatively new model at your Nissan store.

Since I have been looking at those models recently, I will add my 0.02 worth.

The Versa is negotiable. However, supplies are pretty tight and since there are several models, it is hard to find one that is equipped exactly like you'll want. Therefore, they will not be giving those away, especially the ones with the ABS.

The Matrix is a strange bird. I don't see a lot of them at either the Toyota dealerships or the Vibe models at the Pontiac dealerships. And a lot of what I do see are manual transmission vehicles that have been there a LONG time. I will say that they command some pretty steep prices used here in Chicago. I had a dealer in Milwaukee offer me an AT Vive with 85k for $9k. I did see a MT Vive with 36k at $11.5 in Cincinnati.

bobst · March 2007

Saver1, lets do the math.

You have driven 57K miles since 2001 at 19 mpg, so you have used 3000 gallons of gas.

If your car had gotten 28.5 mpg, you would have used 2000 gallons.

That would have saved you 1000 gallons and if the price was $3.50 a gallon, you would have saved $3500 over 6 years - hardly even worth worrying about.

bugchucker · March 2007

A dealer was kind enough to e-mail an invoice sheet on a vehicle that i am interested in? I can't believe it has gas $10! I understand holdback but what is whsl financial reserve $400 and TDA $700. Are these legitimate dealer costs?

Kirstie_H · March 2007

What car, and where are you located?

bugchucker · March 2007

Tundra and Seattle area.

Kirstie_H · March 2007

I don't know what finance reserve is (maybe a dealer can explain that one), but TDA is the advertising fee, and as annoying as it is to see it itemized, it is a fee that is charged by the manufacturer to the dealer, so it will appear on your invoice.

The gas? I know they do that, but that really beats all. You couldn't just charge me an additional $10 for the car? But yup, some add that to the invoice (itemized, so that it gets under your skin).

thenebean · March 2007

The gas? I know they do that, but that really beats all. You couldn't just charge me an additional $10 for the car? But yup, some add that to the invoice (itemized, so that it gets under your skin).

by some you do realize (and im sure you do, but i want to clarify) that its some car manufacturers, not some dealers! in toyota's case, it might be their regional distributor (isnt the one in the southeast famous for adding all kinds of crap to the cars before delivering to the dealerships?)

-thene

Kirstie_H · March 2007

I assumed that was known as the dealer doesn't prepare the invoice, the manufacturer does.

joel0622 · March 2007

I don't know what the financial reserve is either. I looked at one of our invoices and it does not mention it But I will be willing to pay $10 for a full tank of gas any day of the week.

Kirstie_H · March 2007

No one said it was full

thenebean · March 2007

you are correct, but not everyone knows or acknowledges that. I had a woman once stand up and scream that i was not showing her the real invoice, and she demanded to see the real one. I tried to assure her that the one i was showing her was the one from the mfgr, but she refused to believe me.

thats why i just wanted to clarify - some people are conspiracy theorists!

-thene

tallman1 · March 2007

some people are conspiracy theorists!

Yeah, I'll bet that is what you and your kind want us to believe. Wait, what's that sound... I think your people are out to get me... I hear them walking.

bugchucker · March 2007

Okay, lets not get caught up in the gas!

I really love those Tundra commercials. However, I never realized that I would need to pay $708 for them.

This "whsl financial reserve"($385) sounds like a second holdback? First holdback is $771

kjenkins696 · March 2007

OK, I'm in the market for a BMW 3 series wagon, but I think this question probably applies to all models.

Dealer gives me a price quote that is below invoice, and I later find out exactly at dealer cost.

They inflated the money factor from .00225 to .00265 and then charged me an $825 "acquisition fee" (after telling me via email that there would be no fees other tan taxes, tags, freight.

I'm trying to figure out how to formulate a counter proposal, because I'm very much interested in eliminating as much of the aq. fee as possible and getting the MF back down to the buy rate. I think it's even to my benefit to pay slightly more up front, particularly to lower the MF, but I'm not sure how to balance the two.

Can you give me guidance on how to balance the price of the car with the other factors, such as MF and aq. fee. to formulate a counterproposal?

Thanks

joel0622 · March 2007

They inflated the money factor from .00225 to .00265 and then charged me an $825 "acquisition fee" (after telling me via email that there would be no fees other tan taxes, tags, freight.

Acq fees are not charged by the dealer, they are charged by whoever the bank is handling the lease.

kjenkins696 · March 2007

OK, but what I've been told is that the standard aq. fee charged by BMW finance is $625, and now the dealer is saying it is $825, after telling me initially there would be no such fee. On my wife's vehicle (also a BMW that we leased back in 2004 through BMW finance) there was no such charge, and I double checked the receipt on this.

Are you saying, then, that this is an area in which I'm not going to be able to negotiate?

kyfdx · March 2007

Are you sure they quoted you below invoice?

Because, if they did.. then you really can't get a bad deal, even if they mark up the money factor the maximum (which they did) and mark up the acquisition fee the maximum (which they did.. base fee is $625)..

Below invoice? Or, below MSRP?

How about the MSRP and the selling price they quoted you?

regards,
kyfdx
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joel0622 · March 2007

Are you saying, then, that this is an area in which I'm not going to be able to negotiate?

I don't know. I can't speak for BMW. I know with Ford the ACQ is $595. All of that $595 goes to FMC, so it is not our fee to negotiate.

kjenkins696 · March 2007

Yes, below invoice. Per Edmunds, invoice on the car is $36,005, MSRP $39,095. They quoted me $35,860, which exactly matches the wholesale price someone alerted me to on another Web site. Then the marked up the MF and the acquisition fee.

Sounds like you are saying I already have a good deal. . . I'm just wondering if I can do even better by playing around with the MF and the negotiated price. (Or, should I count my blessings and just pull the trigger?)

kyfdx · March 2007

My first inclination is to tell you to pull the trigger...

However, if you tell us what payment they come up with, and how much you have due at signing... what state you are in, and your tax rate... then, we can make sure that what they say matches up with the price..

regards,
kyfdx

thenebean · March 2007

my guess is the dealer wanted to show you a great deal, by selling you the car at below invoice. their plan was to make that money back on the money factor by marking it up over their buy rate. it just looks like a better deal to most people by doing it the way they do (marking up money factor, discounting the car to cost).

i cannot speak to the numbers, so i'll let an expert do that (ive been out of the biz for a couple years now)

maybe bmw upped the acq. fee recently?

good luck!

-thene

kjenkins696 · March 2007

I'd be happy to do it:
MD - 5% tax rate applied to entire vehicle
Negotiated price: $35,860
MF: .00216 (reduced from .00265 by multiple security deposits)
Aq. fee: $825
MD tags/registration: $198
36 months/12K per year
Residual: $24239 (62%)

I will put down taxes, tags, aq. fee, and first month's payment. I will also provide 7 security deposits to reduce the MF.

Deal is $6766 out of pocket (with $3500 returned to me after the lease) and $452 per month.

I'd love to get the payments below $450, becuase then I'll "save" $50 on each security deposit.

kyfdx · March 2007

I have only good news for you...

The figures are perfect... While they are marking up the acquisition fee and the money factor, they are selling you the car extremely cheap.. Both markups together only add $1064 to the price... Yet, your price is below invoice...

All told, this deal is less than $1000 over invoice.. I'd grab it..

Now, I'd roll the tax and the acquisition fee into the cap cost... Your payment and security deposits will go up, but you'll still have a lot less out of pocket..

regards,
kyfdx

joel0622 · March 2007

Deal is $6766 out of pocket (with $3500 returned to me after the lease) and $452 per month.

I'd love to get the payments below $450, becuase then I'll "save" $50 on each security deposit.

Thats simple enough. put down $6866, instead of $6766. That is if you really want to put money down on a lease. All you are doing is buying a payment.

How much monthly does the 7 security deposit thing save you?

kyfdx · March 2007

How much monthly does the 7 security deposit thing save you?

Almost $30/mo. for putting up $3500 that is returned at the end of the lease..

kjenkins696 · March 2007

Thank you both for your help. I feel much better about this now. I will consider just adding the taxes and fees into the cap cost.

Best,
Kevin

jipster · March 2007

... and not make you ill or dead. Rat poison can be eaten but it certainly not edible

Ahhh haaa, so that's why the hostile attitude towards Pizza Hut!

You went in to eat at Pizza Hut 10 years ago and they tried to kill you with pizza laced with rat poison. But, I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Get over it.

kjenkins696 · March 2007

One more question:

I understand why folks say you shouldn't make a down payment on a lease, but why wouldn't I pay the tax and fees up front, since by factoring them into the payments I would be essentially choosing to pay interest on a fixed cost?

Thanks.

saver1 · March 2007

Good things to consider from all of you, thanks. I have learned that if I keep my old car I'm not losing as much as I thought and if I do decide to get a more efficient one I'll probably get a one year or so old vehicle ( lower cost, no drive off the lot loss..)
I think I 'll check out the dealers on the Matrix locally and see what they might have that's a year old.

bs55 · March 2007

Hi..I'm thinking of purchasing a car soon, and by reading everything, emailing an internet manager is the best way to get a good deal. What should I say in the email to the dealership. Do I ask if they have my car with my options and color and just throw out a number or how do you go about it. Example of a sample email would help out a lot for anyone who has gone this route. Thanks

oldfarmer50 · March 2007

"...and they tried to kill you with pizza laced with rat poison..."

Don't worry, they're busy putting rat poison in pet food now. Just to be safe, don't take Rover out for a slice.

Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

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