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The key to it is to find out what the customers really asking for. Do you really want my best price or do you want my best negotiable price. Allot of people won't buy regardless of what the dealer opens the negotiations at so allot of times you need to leave a little wiggle room in order for the customer to win.
Back in the day before the internet and all when there still was the mystery of what the cost was and all that there was a salesperson here who would handle shoppers like this.
You come in and say you are looking at the 1995 Zorch Extreme model. You tell him you are shopping and best price wins. He would say OK, and then he would right a number down on a piece of paper, put it in an envelope and write your name and 8:00 PM on the envelope and seal it. He would then put it on his desk. Then he would tell you to shop until your heart was content, when you were done come back and open the envelope, if it was not the best offer he would buy you a tank of gas and two free meals at the Shoney's up the street. but his offer was good only till 8:00 PM that evening.
What he was trying to accomplish was getting the last shot. You come back and he ask what your best price was, you would say something like $18500, you open the envelope and it said $100 of your best price. For the folks that actually would go along with it and come back it usually worked because no one was putting people out on the road at invoice back then. Some folks would not want to participate so he would give them a $500 over price and usually never see them again.
I'm facing that realization, yes. There's nothing inherently wrong with my current car except for its size. My second child was recently born, and so family trips and camp-outs are beginning to exceed this car's ability to transport my family. The reason I'm wanting to replace it is due to the desire for a larger vehicle, and the CX-9 is the one vehicle I've found so far that meets all my requirements. It is, unfortunately, just a touch out of my price range.
Looks like I should just wait. Bummer, as I have itch for a new ride.
Requirements: AWD, Automatic Climate Control, Moonroof, a hookup for my non-iPod MP3 player, the ability to put 2 car seats and a skinny wife in the back seat, and generous cargo carrying ability. I'd also rather it not require premium gas, and Nav would be nice but not necessary.
Another query: Do you pay sales tax on the destination charge, or only the price of the vehicle?
I live in PA and you pay sales tax on the bottom line.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
each state is different though...
-thene
-mike
I can attest to this, even when you think you know someone!!!
In 1989 my mother wanted to buy a car and my brother knew a sales manager through their sons playing baseball. He knew what car our mother wanted and since the sales manager worked at a large multi-car store, he asked if they had a demo in the brand she wanted. Of course they did and we went a couple days later so she could test drive and see if she liked how it would fit her.
She test drove a couple models and like I thought, the one with power seats fit her best. So that’s the one she wanted. The sales manager seats us in an office and says, “let me get you a price on this”. He sends a greenpea in with the price and as the greenpea is sitting down he says, “:you must really know John pretty well because I’ve never seen a price this good for a car like this”. I’m thinking , yeah, fine, lets see the number. He slides the paper across the table and says, “how’s that, I told you”. I said to my brother, “you must not know this guy very well. Mom could have gotten this price by herself without us being here”. He looks at the price and says, “lets get out of here”. I didn’t blame him and I wanted to do the same thing but I took him aside (I’m the big brother so I got my way) because I didn’t want to start all over again at another dealer the following night.
To make a long story short, we get into the traditional negotiating session and the sales manager finally comes into the office and says, “the price you want is below our cost” and I said, “it’s a demo with 5300 miles on it so it should be. As far as I’m concerned this is a used car”. I must have been right because we got the car at our price.
As they are cleaning the car for delivery the sales manager come over and I said, “why, when you know someone, do you guys still put the customer through this”? His response was, “customers don’t feel they have gotten a good deal until they have gotten our third or forth price. You’re tough because you never raised your offer once". I said, “if you think I’m tough, my brother was ready to leave after your fist ridiculous offer. I’m the nice guy, you still got a sale out of this”. He says, “yeah, I saw that but I would not have let that happen”.
I just chalk up this kind of behavior to ‘that’s the way your biz works’ and you guys just can’t help yourself. Although, lately, I have seen things make a turn for the better as far as customers are concerned.
FWIW, my brother has bought a handful of cars from this guy since then. However, now, when my brother says one price, that’s what he gets. Twice he said the price was a little better than his price.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Unless, you personally know the sales manager, and have saved his life on more than one occasion... you'll pay as much or more than the average joe off the street.
My experience was like yours. I could have gotten a better deal negotiating on my own. So, I went somewhere else and did.
$28-30K out the door for one with the Rubicon package and worth every penny, IMO. It frankly makes the yuppies boxes look like overpriced pieces of tin. And it looks really cool - there's no getting around the fact that it's the real deal. In person, it looks impressive - like a real Mini-Hummer. Inside, it's modern and liveable.(no, really - for the first time it has a real interior!)
If that's too aggressive for you, check out the new Jeep Patriot. full-time 4x4, and every option you wanted, but wait - it's not even $20K? Yes, it's no Wrangler Unlimited, but it's Hyundai inexpensive. By far the most promising around-town/yuppie SUV out right now, IMO(as opposed to a real off-road vehicle like the Wrangler - a different category entirely) :shades:
Go for the Unlimited. You'll never regret it
-mike
The interiors aren't a BMW or Mercedes SUV to be sure, but then again, off-road capable 4x4 and under $18K is unobtainable any other way currently. And the Wrangler - well, it's a blast to drive, pure and simple. Turns heads, goes off-road, and puts a big grin on your face doing it. The interior doesn't have to be like a Lexus as a result.(plus Mud doesn't work well with leather seats last I checked
Like I said the Patriot interior like the rest of the DCs up to and including 300c, have crappy interiors. Extremely cheap feeling. In a Wrangler that's acceptable, the interior is actually better than expected, but for a "car-based" like the Patriot, it's unaccepatable.
-mike
if you like the mazda cx9 - why not look at the cx7? its similar, but a little smaller and cheaper, and still has room for two car seats. might be a good compromise?
-thene
Nitro = Patriot
Liberty = no clone
-mike
PS: I agree the original poster is looking for more of a car than an SUV.
And yeah, he definitely seems to be looking for more like a car-based SUV.
Ah ha, I recant, for some reason I was under the impression that the Nitro came in AWD or FWD, which would make it impossible to be based off the Liberty. I see it is in fact based off the liberty with RWD or AWD.
Either way, the Patriot is FWD based, and very much car-like from what I've seen of it at the auto-show.
-mike
"The boxy 2007 Patriot compact SUV is the third vehicle the Chrysler Group has spun off its new small-car platform.
First there was the Dodge Caliber — the odd-looking hunchback hatchback with a cheap interior and lackluster performance. Then there was the Jeep Compass — a vehicle so utterly wrong-headed that, in the future, a Ph.D. candidate in marketing will write a thesis about it.
Fortunately the 2007 Jeep Patriot is the best of this otherwise dysfunctional family. "
And from the 2007 Dodge Nitro Review
"An all-new offering this year, the 2007 Dodge Nitro is based on a slightly lengthened version of a chassis also used for the Jeep Liberty."
:shades: :shades: :shades:
-mike
It's OK, we all knew that already.
You are right about one thing... I have no problem admitting when you are wrong!!
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If it passes that with stock suspension and tires, it's a perfect vehicle for the original poster's needs. AWD - check. (full-time 4x4, which is better in bad weather) All the features he wants - yes. Interior? Okay, it is bland inside, but then again, so is an Accord, Corolla, and most of the non-luxury cars.
They said the same thing about the original Cherokee, afterall - that it was a compromise and not good enough and too much like a truck... and yet it got the job done. The Patriot is virtually identical in size to the Cherokee, and by the looks of it, about as capable of-road(though not half what a Wrangler will do, of course)
The Wrangler Unlimited is what it is - you pay the money not for the interior, but what it can do. think of it as a useable, civilized mini-humvee.
Dittos!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Besides, my wife works for a Tier 1 supplier of GM and Ford, so I can get plan prices. Not so with DC. The choice is either get the CX-9 now if the finances work out (which they do not), or wait until I have more equity in my trade-in.
The big question is can they be right?
ducking and running
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Of course, if you're THAT dead set on a CX-9, then your only choice is to wait. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't investigate competing vehicles while you wait. And you never know, you may find a deal you like. Always a bad thing to be so focused you get tunnel-vision.
I keep hearing about domestic cars having crappy interiors. I don't understand this. Most of the cars I have seen at auto show have interiors which don't do a thing for me. They all are plastic, mainly black, which feel no better than my 10 year old Chrysler Cirrus (certainly not a top line model). I've sat in Camarys, Accords VW's etc. and they are all pretty much the same to me. I'm currently driving a Mazda 5 while my car is in the shop and the same thing. BTW, does everyone think black is a good interior color? To me it's like sitting in a dark cave.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
-mike
We had a Pontiac G6 for a rental for a recent trip. It had a black cloth interior. We called it the "coal bin."
Problem with black, sunglasses, and bright sunny weather is if you drop anything dark-colored on the floor, you can't find it!
Besides, my wife works for a Tier 1 supplier of GM and Ford, so I can get plan prices. Not so with DC. The choice is either get the CX-9 now if the finances work out (which they do not), or wait until I have more equity in my trade-in.
I completely understand, but dang if it isn't pricey. If it was $25K or so, it would be a nice choice, but 30K+, you honestly should either get a proper car like the 2008 CTS when it comes out or a real 4x4.
By the way, Suzuki's AWD is like most others in that it's not full-time 4x4, which is what she really wants for safety. Now, the marketers all say "AWD", and you probably believe it, but what you think of when they talk about bad weather safety and performance... that's full-time 4WD. This part-time transfer back and forth nonsense does nothing if you hit a patch of ice or your tires drop off of the road(uneven pavement, too), or simmilar.
Subaru has a nice video on Google about this - a 20 minute test of AWD systems and the thing is that all but one of the competitors outright fails at every test. Not a little, but drastically and plainly failing.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4999142340359932162
This is biased of course, but the results on the wet track and dirt don't lie - the part-time systems are useless in actual use in bad weather and only really serve to make you feel safer. A vehicle in 4x4 mode would have little problem with any of the tests.(the Subaru being full-time 4x4 is a noteable exception as it shows)
I really suggest a 4wd vehicle instead, or just getting a lower center of gravity sedan(which are plenty safe in the rain, actually, with proper tires).
EDIT:
One last thing. Only three AWD systems work. The rest just plainly don't and are a waste of money - and in some cases make the car less safe than a typical sedan with some Aquatreds.
1:Subaru
2:Jeep - Freedom Drive 2 and simmilar(Freedom Drive 1 - kind of iffy)
3:Audi - Quattro.
That's it. Subaru and Audi have copied each other for decades and it shows. Jeep - they worked their butts off to make sure it all works properly for off-road use.
Or you could just get a 4-Runner. There's nothing bad about it, to be honest. Excellent off-road and in snow/mud.
Wrong! The big question is "How do I get the best deal?"
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You're correct. You have choices and are using this forum to garner knowledge to quantify those choices. Informed decisions usually result in satisfaction rather than regret. Life is kind of like that. Good luck!
After re-reading your original post and follow-up requirements, you should sit back and really digest what eveyone is suggesting. I have to agree with snakeweasel that you may be looking at more car then you can afford. If you are waiting on more equity in your Passat, you'll have to wait a while. As you are making your payments, the miles are increasing and the value of the car is decreasing.
Ask yourself, do you really need AWD? People talk about safety but i have a minivan that did perfectly fine in our last snow storm. Plus AWD systems eat into gas mileage just from the weight of the added components.
Do you have to have a moonroof? Sure it is nice to have but is it really a deal breaker?
As mentioned, you can look at the Freestyle, Edge, Mazda 5, Saturn Outlook, etc.
900 plus for T.M.F which they called the Toyota Marketing Fund???
600 + for a hold back charge (lights, electric, etc) at the dealership
300+ Additional Charges
300+ Additional Charges
netting in 2100.00 in additional charges.
This is above and beyond the Delivery fee.
In addition the dealer said they would not get the vehicle in until May 8 which meant that the current 1500.00 rebate or 3.9% financing may not apply.
I was very frustrated to say the least.
Do these additional charges make sense? Should I pay anything other than..
cost of the vehicle - rebates
delivery charge
tax, title and license
????
help
email me at llyonsamedisys.com
Just say no. Better yet, find a one or two year old used one for thousands less.
First thing its not wise to put your e-mail in the message. You can have it in your profile but having it in the message will get your e-mail address into the hands of spammers.
I was fixing to pick up a 2007 Sequoia which was advertised as 1% over cost.
Well the first thing I would say is "define cost". Cost could mean anything and everything. Something like that sounds off alarms like you wouldn't believe as far as I am concerned. Cost can include the salesmans commission, a portion of the salary of all those who support the sales department, interest on the loan to buy inventory, part of the property taxes, part of the utilities and so on and so forth.
work on a bottom line out the door price and shop around. Don't fall for the hype.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'll have to complete this tomorrow, as it's getting past my bedtime!
I'll never understand why people who live in the states that charge these rediculous fees are still interested in a Toyota. If I didn't know better I'd think Toyota's were the only cars available in these states. Good for Toyota but bad for the buyer.
It sounds like you're concerned about being ripped off; the only advice I can give is, go far enough away and buy there so you don't have to pay these fees or fall in love with something else. From what I've heard and read, those fees ain't goin away.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
work on a bottom line out the door price and shop around. Don't fall for the hype.
I agree this is the usual tactic of "cost" which is totally undefined. Basically just to get you in there. I also agree work on the "bottom line out the door price" and you'll be in much better shape, also be prepared to walk on a deal, if they feel you won't walk they gotcha in their sites.
-mike
There have been a number of reasons offered for this but the result is that the customer reads one thing and then gets a surprise when the paperwork is signed.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'll have to give my little tutorial later, hopefully this evening. If not, I'll do it over the weekend. Watch this space!
For those not willing to wait, just use the "Bobst" method -- figure what you want to offer out the door, and Edmunds has plenty of info for you to make an informed offer.
Yeah and the Sequoia happens to be the weakest and oldest design of all the full-size SUVs on the market as well.
-mike
After re-reading your original post and follow-up requirements, you should sit back and really digest what eveyone is suggesting. I have to agree with snakeweasel that you may be looking at more car then you can afford. If you are waiting on more equity in your Passat, you'll have to wait a while. As you are making your payments, the miles are increasing and the value of the car is decreasing.
I never said I couldn't afford it, I said that the payment was too high. Not because I couldn't afford to pay $700 a month, but because I didn't want to.
After working some serious numbers this weeks, I've come to the realization that it actually makes financial sense for me to lease, and take the extra $250 a month that this will save me, and put it into a high yield savings account. Then when the lease is up, that money becomes the down-payment when I buy the CX-9 offlease. I end up paying less out of pocket over 5 years because the lease rates are 4.5% less than the buy interest rate.
This of course is assuming I can get 6% in 2 years, and who knows where interest rates will be then.
The reason I didn't want that high a payment is because I want to set up an emergency fund. My wife was a little concerned about the car payments, and wanted a "just in case" safety buffer, which this idea will provide.
I'm sure you know that unless you're going to piggy back this $250 with some other money, you're not going to get a high yield rate for these few beans.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl