look it up in Kelley Blue Book. Offer 80% of trade-in value if it is a nice car. The dealer has no more than that in it probably. If he needs to unload a car, he'll sell it for that.
Hello everyone: I'm currently buying an 07 Toyota 4Runner. I've been getting some really good quotes that have been leaving the managers stunned. 1000-1200 under invoice. Part of that is because its a gas guzzler but the quote always stuns them and I love the reaction. Of course they always match it. Two days before I buy, I'll do my third round of calling and someone will have to beat the price.
So if anyone is in Socal planning to buy a car, I offer my services. I love finding deals. I have the car buying process down. I won't charge because I love it so much because I might consider starting my own business. Free for now because I want to try it out and I also need practice. It's sad and very upsetting how easily people get ripped off.
hmm. . . .I guess I am. If you don't want the free service. Then this is what you do. Go on the dealerships website and get the internet sales/fleet manager's number. Call him/her up and ask for a quote. Make sure you have done your research before hand because even they'll give you a bogus quote. After they give you that bogus quote, immediately say you have quotes for much lower. Whether you're telling the truth or not, its up to them to ask for proof. My experience so far is they will quote you a number around the invoice price (I'm getting a 4runner). Then afterwards I tell them I have a quote for 1k below. Then they call back and they match it. I don't ask them to beat it because now I have about 5 quotes between 1k-1.2k below invoice. I have another at 750 below inv. All quotes sent via email of course. Then two days before I actually buy, I'll do my 2nd round of calling and someone will beat it. My target price is 1200-1300 below. The 1.2k below you see above is unconfirmed so for now lets just say I have 1k below.
why target 1200 below invoice? How about 1500 under invoice? Or 1668 below? Maybe you could buy it for 5000 under invoice. A time is coming when there will be very few creditworthy buyers and way too many cars to sell to them. Maybe that time is here now or very close to being here. We already know that dealers and manufacturers are not dead set on making a profit, right? Look at GM and Ford. Others will too. Maybe even Toyota, if it hasn't already.
uh. . .what the hell? they make most of their money with service, parts, etc as described by the edmunds.com tips and advice section.
i target 1200-1400 because the tone of their voice already changed with 1k. And I feel thats the point where they'll say enough is enough. I'm trying to get the best deal for me and my money with no regard to their profits and their well being.
i negotiate the sales price. the incentive you are talking about is not priced into the sales price. usually they don't negotiate with the incentive included. unless you negotiate by talking about monthly payments. for the love of god, never negotatiate in terms of monthly payments.
I actually found an online quote at toyota irvine for about 1200 below invoice. so i was ecstatic but pissed because i had done alot of work, called alot of places, created a nice looking spreadsheet and the whole time, there was an online price quote of 1200 below. i called the guy up and i wanted to confirm that the 1500 fact. rebate (for CA) wasn't priced into it. and it wasn't.
Until most or all of them DO say enough is enough, you won't really know what your best deal might be, right? Don't worry about the tone of their voices, the important thing is what words they speak, right?
You seem to be doing an awful lot of work for this. Why don't you look around to find the going price for the car and just negotiate from there, or just use the Bobst method?
for the love of god, never negotatiate in terms of monthly payments.
Why not? If you know what you're doing there is nothing wrong with it. Lets face it most people finance their cars and if done right negotiating monthly payments is fine.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I actually found an online quote at toyota irvine for about 1200 below invoice. so i was ecstatic but pissed because i had done alot of work, called alot of places, created a nice looking spreadsheet and the whole time, there was an online price quote of 1200 below. i called the guy up and i wanted to confirm that the 1500 fact. rebate (for CA) wasn't priced into it. and it wasn't.
Wow, how much time do you spend buying a car? As someone else said awhile ago. "You're buying a car, not negotiating the Louisiana Purchase."
And in regards to negotiating via monthly payments, I agree with the previous post, properly done it can work for you. But you have to do your homework, have your own financing and loan terms all set up, and not listen to the dealers pitch. All they have to do is work backwards from your monthly payment and loan terms.
Sounds pretty good. Have you accounted for dealers fees in your quotes? $1,000 below invoice can quickly turn into $500 under invoice if you show up at the dealership without having negotiated any fees/add ons.
'98...why not just go in and offer a one time deal at $1,300 below invoice, you keep the rebate.
Better yet, offer them an "out the door" (OTD) price that includes taxes and fees? I don't have an issue with how you're doing it. Seems like a hassle when all you're trying to do is to get to that $1,300 below invoice number....especially when you take into consideration that one dealer may have exactly the color and option level you want, and another dealer doesn't.
yeah, and if you go to a dealer that has it, and you don't work out the price, and then go to a different dealer that doesnt have it, and make a deal. the dealer can't really make a swap for that car, because the dealer thinks they still have a customer, or they know its you and want to make you come back to their store (especially if its an odd color/equipped vehicle)
i personally think life is too short to play this game. sure, i want a good deal (who doesnt?) but i don't need to lie and cheat by making up numbers. how do you justify lying about your numbers? are you also one of those people that gets on the dealers case accusing them of lying about theirs?
too much work and effort. i'd much rather get my car sooner and be driving it, then running around and sending emails/calling/visiting dealers to get an extra $100 more off than the other guy...
ALLOT of people here give GREAT advice on buying a car. But ya know what I compare it to? The diets that my wife and daughter always talk about (which BTW neither on of them need). There is all these crazy ways to lose weight, but you know what always works? Eat less, exercise more.
Buying a car is as easy, decide what you will pay and tell me. If you are being realistic you will be able to buy one. Will I try to bump you a couple times? Sure thats what I do I work in sales, I get paid on profit (well now its F&I profit but you get the point).
Bob really has the right idea. Here is what I will pay wanna sell one?
You are not cracking the Da Vinci Code, your buying a car.
i agree - it doesn't have to be that hard. if you have done your research, you know what you can get the car for. offer it, if they can do it great, if not - you can stay and haggle a bit or you can walk. that's your choice. but it really doesn't need to be about shopping 5 different dealers and pitting them all against each other and then making them match, then making them beat a price...etc.
but to each their own...i just don't have the time (nor do i want to spend the time) haggling with 5 different stores to save yet another $100 bucks...
O.K. let me get this straight. You are getting quotes of $1200 below dealer invoice and you are also getting the area incentive of say $1500 back personally? The effect being you plan to pay 1200 + 1500 = $2700 below dealer invoice? Is that right? You are buying for $2700 below the dealer invoice? Less verbiage and more facts would be easier to understand. Slow down....You have not invented the wheel.
That is the "Patented Bobst Method" and because we would face a patent infringement lawsuit if we told you, you must send $19.95 directly to Bobst to obtain that information.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That is the "Patented Bobst Method" and because we would face a patent infringement lawsuit if we told you, you must send $19.95 directly to Bobst to obtain that information.
But...if you order in the next 10 minutes, we'll send you TWO Bobst methods for the price of one! That's a savings of 19.95!! But wait, there's more!!! You'll also get the Bobst slicer and dicer, airtight storage bags, and the nose hair remover, ABSOLUTELY FREE!!!
MSRP 29219 manuf invoice 26348 price quote +25148 sales tax (0.075 * 25148) = +1886.1 Fees +320 (approx.) incentive -1500 total 25854.1 i don't know how to figure out OTD price with the 4.74% included. 20% down payment. 4.74 financing from usccreditunion.org. check it out. great rates.
it really hasn't been alot of work. i've made probably ten total phone calls each about 5 mins. i've test driven it twice and i love it. costco auto program sucks, btw. i signed up for costco auto program, they called me an hour later, i said i had quotes of 1.2 k below invoice. she said she would call me back. but never did.
dealer fees from my research are typically 300-350$. I will make my main appointment two days before I buy and also set up a backup appointment. Either way, I'll ask for the sales contract to be faxed to me beforehand.
you make a good point. life is too short. but the sad part is that i enjoy this stuff. i get worse when its vacation planning. I'm not one of the 'all-inclusive' guys. I plan everything to the detail to lower costs. So I figure I'm enjoying this foreign country at probably 40% less than the guy right next to me.
2) Do some research and determine the OTD price you want to pay.
3) Go to a dealer that has the car and make your offer.
4) If they accept, buy the car.
5) If they do not accept your offer, then leave and go to another dealer and make the same offer or a slghtly higher offer. If you are willing to make a higher offer, you can even go back to the original dealer.
Eventually, you will find someone to accept your offer.
Remember, you only know your offer has been refused when you drive away and they are not hanging on your bumper, begging you to come back. Therefore, you only make one offer on each visit to a dealer.
Buying a car is as easy, decide what you will pay and tell me.
Thank you. There are a few of us that hang out on these forums that have been saying this for quite some time now. Some buyers refuse to believe this and feel they have to come up with a scheme and be deceitful when they decide to buy because they have heard all of the “beware of the dreaded car salesman” stories. If the fearful buyer would only spend as much time researching as they do scheming they would find out that it isn't really hard, as you said.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to let the guys in the biz off the hook just because of what I’ve just said because some of you now and for the most part many of your predecessors have given buyers good reason to be concerned when they walk into a dealership. However, today, with as much information as there is available there is no excuse for a buyer not being informed and once informed there is no reason to put up with the old line that car salespeople were famous for, or should I say, infamous for. If you feel the guy is not being honest, leave.
If you are being realistic you will be able to buy one.
I’ve found this to be true as well. Doing research today does pay off for the buyer both in time spent and price paid.
So, I’ll say it again, buying a car is not hard. It’s the research that takes time and even then you don’t have to go overboard with it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I completely agree. Its very easy. You emphasize research. And whats involved with research? 1. Getting as many online quotes as possible from surrounding dealerships. 2. Calling all the dealerships w/in 20-30 miles and have them match and beat the price quotes until they can't do it anymore. 3. Agree on a price and show up.
3) Go to a dealer that has the car and make your offer.
What’s going on here? You didn’t describe your own method properly. :confuse:
You never mentioned that you already have a check made out to the dealer for the OTD price before you even enter the dealership, which you then present to the salesman to either accept or reject. If they refuse then you leave, right?
The only difference between the way you do it and the way I do it is that I don’t have a check made out when I enter the dealership. Those things cost money and I’m not wasting one red cent until they accept my offer. If they accept I then let Mrs. jmonroe handle the clerk work. I’ve gotten in trouble on more than one occasion for messing up the checkbook.
I’m disappointed that you couldn’t explain your own method better than you did.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No name calling here by me. The guy admitted to lying to the salespeople and suggested we do it too. If I said he did not lie to them, then I'd be a liar too. Go back a few posts and read.
Are you feeling a little bit guilty? I wasn’t referring to you specifically or in general. You and I both like to use the Internet as a starting point although you send out far more e-mails than I do.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
>Remember, you only know your offer has been refused when you drive away and they are not hanging on your bumper, begging you to come back.
I even had one salesman with the chutzpah to call me at work 2 days later and ask if I was interested. I said $#44 yes, that's why I bought one last evening. What did he think I was down at his dealership for two days ago? Dumb.
Comments
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Hey 'mike', you better get that #1 button fixed.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've always had at least one manual tranny vehicle in my "fleet," going back to 1975.
So if anyone is in Socal planning to buy a car, I offer my services. I love finding deals. I have the car buying process down. I won't charge because I love it so much because I might consider starting my own business. Free for now because I want to try it out and I also need practice. It's sad and very upsetting how easily people get ripped off.
My experience so far is they will quote you a number around the invoice price (I'm getting a 4runner). Then afterwards I tell them I have a quote for 1k below. Then they call back and they match it. I don't ask them to beat it because now I have about 5 quotes between 1k-1.2k below invoice. I have another at 750 below inv. All quotes sent via email of course. Then two days before I actually buy, I'll do my 2nd round of calling and someone will beat it. My target price is 1200-1300 below. The 1.2k below you see above is unconfirmed so for now lets just say I have 1k below.
There, I am now useless and I can't make money.
Maybe you could buy it for 5000 under invoice.
A time is coming when there will be very few creditworthy buyers and way too many cars to sell to them. Maybe that time is here now or very close to being here.
We already know that dealers and manufacturers are not dead set on making a profit, right?
Look at GM and Ford. Others will too. Maybe even Toyota, if it hasn't already.
i target 1200-1400 because the tone of their voice already changed with 1k. And I feel thats the point where they'll say enough is enough. I'm trying to get the best deal for me and my money with no regard to their profits and their well being.
So crude.
I actually found an online quote at toyota irvine for about 1200 below invoice. so i was ecstatic but pissed because i had done alot of work, called alot of places, created a nice looking spreadsheet and the whole time, there was an online price quote of 1200 below. i called the guy up and i wanted to confirm that the 1500 fact. rebate (for CA) wasn't priced into it. and it wasn't.
What do you mean?
Until most or all of them DO say enough is enough, you won't really know what your best deal might be, right? Don't worry about the tone of their voices, the important thing is what words they speak, right?
for the love of god, never negotatiate in terms of monthly payments.
Why not? If you know what you're doing there is nothing wrong with it. Lets face it most people finance their cars and if done right negotiating monthly payments is fine.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Wow, how much time do you spend buying a car? As someone else said awhile ago. "You're buying a car, not negotiating the Louisiana Purchase."
And in regards to negotiating via monthly payments, I agree with the previous post, properly done it can work for you. But you have to do your homework, have your own financing and loan terms all set up, and not listen to the dealers pitch. All they have to do is work backwards from your monthly payment and loan terms.
For someone who enjoys the car buying experience and negotiation... the bobst method is about as fun as one player bingo.
Better yet, offer them an "out the door" (OTD) price that includes taxes and fees? I don't have an issue with how you're doing it. Seems like a hassle when all you're trying to do is to get to that $1,300 below invoice number....especially when you take into consideration that one dealer may have exactly the color and option level you want, and another dealer doesn't.
i personally think life is too short to play this game. sure, i want a good deal (who doesnt?) but i don't need to lie and cheat by making up numbers. how do you justify lying about your numbers? are you also one of those people that gets on the dealers case accusing them of lying about theirs?
too much work and effort. i'd much rather get my car sooner and be driving it, then running around and sending emails/calling/visiting dealers to get an extra $100 more off than the other guy...
like isell would say "life is too short..."
-thene :sick:
Buying a car is as easy, decide what you will pay and tell me. If you are being realistic you will be able to buy one. Will I try to bump you a couple times? Sure thats what I do I work in sales, I get paid on profit (well now its F&I profit but you get the point).
Bob really has the right idea. Here is what I will pay wanna sell one?
You are not cracking the Da Vinci Code, your buying a car.
but to each their own...i just don't have the time (nor do i want to spend the time) haggling with 5 different stores to save yet another $100 bucks...
-thene
That is the "Patented Bobst Method" and because we would face a patent infringement lawsuit if we told you, you must send $19.95 directly to Bobst to obtain that information.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That is the "Patented Bobst Method" and because we would face a patent infringement lawsuit if we told you, you must send $19.95 directly to Bobst to obtain that information.
Plus Shipping and Handling.
Dont wait - call NOW!!!
(thank god its almost 5pm...)
-thene
manuf invoice 26348
price quote +25148
sales tax (0.075 * 25148) = +1886.1
Fees +320 (approx.)
incentive -1500
total 25854.1
i don't know how to figure out OTD price with the 4.74% included.
20% down payment.
4.74 financing from usccreditunion.org. check it out. great rates.
it really hasn't been alot of work. i've made probably ten total phone calls each about 5 mins. i've test driven it twice and i love it. costco auto program sucks, btw. i signed up for costco auto program, they called me an hour later, i said i had quotes of 1.2 k below invoice. she said she would call me back. but never did.
thank you all for the comments.
1) Decide what kind of car you want.
2) Do some research and determine the OTD price you want to pay.
3) Go to a dealer that has the car and make your offer.
4) If they accept, buy the car.
5) If they do not accept your offer, then leave and go to another dealer and make the same offer or a slghtly higher offer. If you are willing to make a higher offer, you can even go back to the original dealer.
Eventually, you will find someone to accept your offer.
Remember, you only know your offer has been refused when you drive away and they are not hanging on your bumper, begging you to come back. Therefore, you only make one offer on each visit to a dealer.
Thank you. There are a few of us that hang out on these forums that have been saying this for quite some time now. Some buyers refuse to believe this and feel they have to come up with a scheme and be deceitful when they decide to buy because they have heard all of the “beware of the dreaded car salesman” stories. If the fearful buyer would only spend as much time researching as they do scheming they would find out that it isn't really hard, as you said.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to let the guys in the biz off the hook just because of what I’ve just said because some of you now and for the most part many of your predecessors have given buyers good reason to be concerned when they walk into a dealership. However, today, with as much information as there is available there is no excuse for a buyer not being informed and once informed there is no reason to put up with the old line that car salespeople were famous for, or should I say, infamous for. If you feel the guy is not being honest, leave.
If you are being realistic you will be able to buy one.
I’ve found this to be true as well. Doing research today does pay off for the buyer both in time spent and price paid.
So, I’ll say it again, buying a car is not hard. It’s the research that takes time and even then you don’t have to go overboard with it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Is that a scheme and is that being deceitful?
happy deal hunting everyone.
What’s going on here? You didn’t describe your own method properly. :confuse:
You never mentioned that you already have a check made out to the dealer for the OTD price before you even enter the dealership, which you then present to the salesman to either accept or reject. If they refuse then you leave, right?
The only difference between the way you do it and the way I do it is that I don’t have a check made out when I enter the dealership. Those things cost money and I’m not wasting one red cent until they accept my offer. If they accept I then let Mrs. jmonroe handle the clerk work. I’ve gotten in trouble on more than one occasion for messing up the checkbook.
I’m disappointed that you couldn’t explain your own method better than you did.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Go back a few posts and read.
However, we did our research using the Prices Paid forum. It was very helpful.
Are you feeling a little bit guilty? I wasn’t referring to you specifically or in general. You and I both like to use the Internet as a starting point although you send out far more e-mails than I do.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
oh well. i'm guessing you don't play poker. . .
There is a difference between bluffing and lying.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I even had one salesman with the chutzpah to call me at work 2 days later and ask if I was interested. I said $#44 yes, that's why I bought one last evening. What did he think I was down at his dealership for two days ago? Dumb.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sorry. I always thought you had a check made out before entering the dealership.
So, if you do it like you do (which is the way most everybody, who pays cash, does it), how is it you have become so renown for this method? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl