Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

14546485051102

Comments

  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    If you really want to buy a van, go in and make a written offer of $1000 more than 1/2 of the MSRP sticker on the window for a new '05.
    Or, if you don't like that number, look up trade-in value in Kelley Blue Book for a good condition '05 or '06 and offer those amounts plus $750 ('05) or plus $500 ('06). If you don't actually make the offers in writing then you won't know if they'll reject them or not.
    Don't be timid. You don't have to wonder about it. Just do it.
  • badboy8114badboy8114 Member Posts: 11
    Thanks joe131,

    I like those words, "Just do it". Sounds like a plan. I plan on communicating through email as much as possible to keep things in writing. -- Joe
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    If the dealer is even close to nearby, go in person, do not email. An email offer does not carry the same weight with a dealer as a signed offer in the showroom submitted to the tower. If you are brave enough to enter their domain, they are more likely to think you are serious. And, as some have pointed out before, timing might be crucial. If you hit it right in the showroom, you might find yourself driving home a bargain.
    Don't wimp out. Go press some skin and offer the green. But don't forget either, that your leverage over them is that you will walk away if you don't get your deal.
    Dealers know bebacks won't be back so they want to sell when you are there with the cash. That's the only time you'll ever get to the best deal.
  • metro123metro123 Member Posts: 100
    I was always told by the experts not to bother with trying to make a deal on a leftover because the dealers would not sell the car cheap enough to make it worth doing, especially on a domestic. You will get killed if you trade the car in before the end of the loan. What about the condition of the car? Been sitting out in the sun for two to three years, probably needs a new battery and maybe the tires have dry rot. Who knows what else? I'll pass.

    By the way, there is a dealer that has 15 new 2005 Lincoln Aviators sitting on the lot. I'm guessing they could lose upwards of $10,000 on each vehicle. Somebody got fired for sure!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I was wondering about the deterioration also -- it's not good for cars to sit out in the elements unused. You can be sure the lot boy isn't making sure the batteries are staying charged!

    Plus maybe these vans have odd option combinations, ugly colors, or both. There's got to be a reason nobody bought them!
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Experts, schmexperts! Bah!
    If you are interested in finding out what deal they'll make on a leftover, go in and make the dang offer!
    The battery on a leftover will have some kind of warranty too. If it poops out within 2 years of driving off the lot, you'll probably get a free one. In fact, you are more likely to get longer "free" use of batteries on a leftover than a fresh car. Don't worry about dry rot in two years. Make a lower offer if paint is damaged. It is warrantied too, as well as everything else on the car.
    And if you don't like the color or options, make an offer on another car. Lots of them are for sale.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Just curious, how much of a discount would it take for you to be interested? What % of MSRP would you pay for an '05? an 06?

    It depends, walk over to there used lot and find a like car with the exception of the miles and see what they are selling it for, because you are within $2000 of what the brand new one is worth. It is still a 3 year old vehichle regardless. The only advantage is you will be the first owner. Heck most banks will only loan 60-80% of invoice on a brand new 2006 at this point, and 05's it is strictly used wholesale.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Its a crap shoot Jeffen, you may find the guy who just needs one more unit, you may also find the guy who meant his unit quota but needs one $3500 deal to get to a gross bonus and mini does nothing but hurt his average.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Had that happen to our GM a couple of months ago. We were trying to dump one of our last 2006 MY vehicles and hit a unit objective from Land Rover.

    So we gave a car away and lost a couple of hundred bucks. That ended up costing the GM a few hundred dollars personaly because it screwed up his gross to net ratio.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Why would the amount you are willing to spend depend on any prices posted on their used cars?
    Who cares what their asking price is on a used one. You don't know the selling price on that used one unless you are willing to work a deal on it and buy it.
    So, the question remains, "...how much of a discount would it take for you to be interested? What % of MSRP would you pay for an '05? an 06?"
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You don't know the selling price on that used one unless you are willing to work a deal on it and buy it.

    So do it, "hey what can I buy the used one for?" All that does is strengthen your bargaining position on a the new one

    There is no set % I can give you, it would depend on the unit and the price of the unit. Where I might give you 70% on a Diesel 4X4 F350 I might only give you you 40% on a on an 05 KIA.

    The worst deals on the lot are left overs and demo's with no programs on them.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Saying, "hey what can I buy the used one for?" is not going to let you know the lowest price they'd sell the used one for. And whatever high price they tell you on the used one will work against you on the new one, not help you.
    I believe the cars being discussed were Chrysler made minivans, right?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I believe the cars being discussed were Chrysler made minivans, right?

    Ya and I don't crap about Chryslers so I am not a very good subject matter expert on this. Like all things it is just a matter of opinion.
  • badboy8114badboy8114 Member Posts: 11
    Chrysler Minivans was the topic of this conversation. I'll probably end up buying an '07 since i'm guessing heavy discounts will come once those '08's with a completely new design start rolling on the lots. I didn't realize my question would storm up a whole conversation like this! Thanks everyone! -- Joe
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I was always told by the experts not to bother with trying to make a deal on a leftover because the dealers would not sell the car cheap enough to make it worth doing, especially on a domestic.

    yes and experts are often wrong.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    was always told by the experts not to bother with trying to make a deal on a leftover because the dealers would not sell the car cheap enough to make it worth doing, especially on a domestic.

    I am no expert but I agree with that statement.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Why wonder about it at all. If you are interested in a car, any car, make the dang offer!
    But don't waste your time. Don't ask for a "quote" or ask the dealer for his "best price". You make the offer. You name your price.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Its all a matter of how each store likes to carry a deal. In this day in time we prefer to speak first. We want to set the stage for the negotiation not the customer.

    The days of people offering $2000 profit from the git go are few and far between any more.

    Another thing we don't do that drives me crazy when dealers do it is ask for a credit statement at the opening of every deal.

    If we are $3500 apart on difference who cares what you credti score is, we don't have a deal any how. Any good sales person who ask the right qualifying questions knows what he has before you ever come in the door any how.

    When ever a sales person brings me deal and says "Man I can't belive I spent 3 hours with this guy and he has bad credit." Thats no ones fault but the sales person. Unless the customer was less the honest with there answers.
  • badboy8114badboy8114 Member Posts: 11
    Well I just did some carfax reports on those '05 and '06's. The dealers were listing them as new yet they all were titled before and had mileage. Thank goodness for carfax to give me the truth on the vehicles. Anybody try doing Carfax's on new cars? I know it sounds pointless, but I just want to make sure it is in fact untitled. Anyways, i tried to pull reports on many '07's and Carfax says no report found for VIN #. I tried 30 reports on 07's and at least 15 came up NOT FOUND on Carfax. What's the deal? Are these different dealers putting up fake numbers, or maybe Carfax only lists a report once a car is titled.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    I'm not sure if you are really responding to my post since I did not ask a question in it.
    My point was that buyer can go in and make an offer on price as if it was a cash deal. No trade, no financing. If a price can be agreed upon, then financing and trade can be discussed with dealer.
    Buyer should already know what he can get for his old car elsewhere before going to dealer. If dealer can beat it, then buyer should trade instead of selling on his own.
    Same with financing/monthly payment. Buyer should already know what financing terms he can get elsewhere before going to dealership. If dealer can beat buyer's own financing, then buyer should finance with dealer's bank.
    By eliminating those two from the deal, the only concern is price. So find out if you can get an agreed price first. No need to try to work all three parts of the deal at the same time. That just allows the dealer to confuse the heck out of buyer.
    If you are responding, I'm not sure what ideas you are trying to get across. Here are six or phrases you used that have little meaning to me. Maybe you could clarify what you mean?

    likes to carry a deal
    In this day in time
    we prefer to speak first
    We want to set the stage for the negotiation not the customer.
    at the opening of every deal
    knows what he has before you ever come

    My guess is that you are writing about people who come into a dealership without knowing anything at all.
    They don't know their credit rating or their ability to get credit, they don't understand rates and terms, they don't know what monthly payment they can afford, they don't know what their car is worth, they don't know what they want to offer for the dealer's new car, they don't know what kind of car they should buy, they don't know the difference between their a__ and a hole in the ground.
    Right?

    It amazes me that a car shopper could be clueless about any of those things, much less all of them at the same time.
    But if there are a lot of people like that, I suppose a big part of the salesman's job is trying to figure out which, if any of those areas buyer has at least a little knowledge. Starting with that one, maybe the salesman then has to begin educating buyer about the whole process of buying a car.
    Is that how it works in most cases?
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I'm guessing the dealers titled them to take advantage of whatever rebates were on at the time.

    To give you an example, my previous dealership had a 2006 Honda S2000 sitting in the showroom. Honda had about $4000 in rebate/support money on the car up to end of April (iirc). The money was going to go away after April. So if the car would not sell, then the rebate would disappear. Therefore what some dealers do is register the car under their name to take advantage of any offers/rebates at the time beofre they expire.

    It's a common practice and I'm guessing your dealer did the same thing with the Caravans.

    The only downside to that is that the warranty clock started running the day the car was registered, so you will lose out on the warranty time (1-2 years less) but will have full coverage for the mileage as the cars were not driven.

    So now you have to ask yourself if it's still worth it.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    So an extended warranty included with the deal, can make the warranty aspect whole again.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    True, but then you still have a 2 year old new car.

    Unless your savings are huge, or it's a model/combination that you can't buy anymore that you really desire, I'd go with a newer model.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    likes to carry a deal Conduct business
    In this day in time Now not Pre Internet
    we prefer to speak first We like to open negotiations
    We want to set the stage for the negotiation not the customer. We set the first price

    at the opening of every deal When you go on paper
    knows what he has before you ever come Have a clue
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    If it's already registered, it's a plain Jane(tm) USED CAR. Not new, not anythig close to it - and the half run-out warrranty is proof of it.

    OTOH, you can haggle then hard on it I bet.
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Well yeah, that's the question. How huge would the savings have to be for you to want it?
    We all like huge savings.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    badboy8114:

    Let me get this straight. 05 and 06 Chrysler minivans being sold as new even though they were titled and driven. No special rebates and the warranty has been running for up to 2 years?

    Seem like this dealer has been inhaling too many exhaust fumes. From what I have read on these forums there is no way you can call these vehicles "NEW". Also if what our experts here say is true, the dealer skimmed off the rebates and now expects you to reward him a second time.

    If these vans were used as demos they may have had a lot of hard driving.

    I would shy away from buying if only because this dealer seems to be willing to stretch the truth.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    A few years ago Chrysler sponsored a series of test drive events where they would allow you to drive any of their vehicles. Among the events were a rally course, a drag strip and a wild ride with a stunt driver.

    As I was weaving a Crossfire through the rally course I looked to the side to see a Chrysler 300 up on two wheels doing a bat turn in a cloud of smoke. That was the ride with the stunt driver.

    I always wondered what they did with these cars after the test drive events were over. Some of them must have taken quite a beating. Never had a car rep sitting next to me yelling "Punch it!" before.

    This was back in 05' I believe. I would asks a few question about where those vans have been.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    i don't know how much hard driving you can do in a minivan...and even if it was driven hard for 2000 miles, i can't imagine that with today's technology and advancements, that the car couldn't take it. i mean it hasn't been driven hard for 50,000...

    maybe its me though...

    -thene ;)
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The cars don't necessarily had to be driven, probably just registered with Chrylser, and sitting there ever since.

    My previous dealer did that with the S2000 and even though the warranty clock started running the car still had 0 mileage.

    They had to "skim" the rebates to pass the savings on, but in this case because it's been such a long time, seems like rebates on newer models come close to what the price is on the older ones, so the dealer is sorta hooped and unlessw they take a huge loss on it they might be stuck with them for some more time.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...I mean it hasn't been driven hard for 50,000..."

    I've driven some rental cars with 10K that rode worse than my beater pick-up with 250,000K. All things being equal, no one treats a car good unless he's paying for repairs. I see your point though, grandma probably isn't doing doughnuts in the minivan loaner. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • noaagirlnoaagirl Member Posts: 16
    I've been reading this forum (and other discussion threads) for the past few days and I'm ready to jump in.

    I'm about to be in the market for what I think might be my dream car - a VW New Beetle Convertible. I've been wanting a New Beetle since they came out in '98, and I think that I might finally be in the position to get one. I have a budget in mind, know that I'd prefer to get a used, low mileage Bug (knowing full well that they sometimes fall short on the reliability scale), and am choosy about which colors I want.

    I won't have a trade (my 1995 Saturn with 180k+ isn't worth bubkus), I can either pay cash outright or can finance through my credit union at a decent rate (4.25; might finance because my cash savings is earning me more than the interest on the loan). I seem to have a couple of elements in my favor for making a good deal...

    ... other than having my heart set on the make, model, and particular colors of Bug I am willing to accept.

    I'm doing tons of research on what Bugs that meet my requirements are marketed for in about a 100 mile radius (DC area) - and it's about 3-4k more on average than I wanted to pay.

    Any advice on how I can get the best deal?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I found the Beetle to actually drive very so-so. You can buy a stunning used car a few years old for that price, or a lot of better cars like the Mini - cuter, silly high resale value.

    And VWs aren't known for being washing machine reliable, either. Not bad, but not something like a 2-3 year old Celica GTS.(highly recommended instead, actually)

    What's your specific criteria?
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    To get the best deal? Find out the low end of what these Beetles are going for, and offer a few hundred below that.

    Prices Paid forum on the new beetle is empty. So, no help there. Check for rebates or any incentives for dealership. Take a look at several of the discussions in the Smart Shopper Board... this one and Negotiation Strategy are very helpful.

    Take your time. When you find a car, figure out the most you want to pay for it and don't pay anymore...but try to get it for lower than your target price. You can start low and let the dealership bump you once or twice. Or, you can make a take it or leave it offer and state your offer is not open for negotiation. Either way I would work with an out the door offer, which takes into account taxes and lisence. Ignore any dealers fees they may try to bump you with. At most add $70 to you OTD price.

    I don't know if these cars are in high demand or not. So, that would be the first thing to research. Try over in the VW discussions.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • noaagirlnoaagirl Member Posts: 16
    The thing about the Beetle that I have to admit is that the choice of the car is more of an emotional decision for me than a practical one. My DH has a 00 Jetta that we've been fortunate enough not to have to put any money into other than the normal wear and tear stuff, so I think that if we had had more problems with it I would be jarred off my emotional pedestal a bit. But I am in love with the Bug and all it represents. Once I get it out of my system I'll go back to a more practical car... but I have to get it out of my system first!

    I'd like a used convertible in either the blue (not aqua blue), red, or green (or sunflower yellow, but I don't think they made any of those until '07) color with under 30k miles for as close to 15k as I can get it. I know that their 06 sales were ~10% lower than their 05. There seem to be a few 06s leftover on some dealer lots, and lots of 07s, but all of them in not-my-choice colors (white, beige, silver, etc). It's the beginning of summer too, when I think these Bugs at their most desirable.

    It's the used car factor that I think I am most uncertain about - I don't have a keen grasp yet of what info I can use to my advantage (like special financing, incentives, etc) like new cars have.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    noaa, try the real world trade in values forum. i know you aren't trading in, but if you give a description of what you are looking for, volvomax may be able to give you an idea of what a trade in value on the Bug was, and can give you an idea of what you can offer (regardless of the asking price). its worth a shot at least!

    everyone should at least own one car in their life that they absolutely HAD to have, regardless of practicallity. obviously you don't want to kill yourself financially to do it (which you certainly have not done) but still...life is too short ;)

    good luck!

    -thene :shades:
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Convertibles are in peak demand Spring/Summer. If you can wait, you will pocket serious cash. Also, if you're looking 100 miles outside DC, look 150 miles and you "should" see prices drop. I lived in NOVA from '93 to '97 and found a $4,000 spread difference when shopping for a '96 Chrysler T&C. I'm now in IA and notice several VW Beetle convertibles in used car lots. They aren't in short supply.

    Buying a used vehicle away from your home can have more risk than the "local" dealer that has a good reputation. Be careful on any used vehicle purchase...take your time...get it inspected by a RELIABLE mechanic...good luck!
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I went through this with my daughter who, since she was 9, wanted a Cybergreen New Beetle. She bought books and models over the years. Her interest never wavered. When she got her learner's permit, we started looking. She even turned down a new '05 in red because she had to have green. She had slight flexibility on the interior color and fabric. Looked hard for about 3 months and found a privately owned ultra low mileage '99 in 11/05 and went 500 miles to get it.

    You going to pay if you want a 'vert right now, simple as that. If you can wait until fall, you'll save alot. My suggestion is to stay clear of dealers and shop privately.

    It is usually difficult to sell a late model car privately so sellers get anxious. Besides saving money, you'll get to meet the owner and may well find someone who has (or, at least, had) the same love as you and lavished it on the car.

    Watch the market on ebay to see what vehicles actually sell for, both privately and by dealers.

    When you start shopping seriously, get a Carfax subscription ($25 for 30 days) and check anything you find.
  • noaagirlnoaagirl Member Posts: 16
    I don't know whether I should feel bad that my 30+ year old taste in cars is the same as a 16 year old's. :P I still get carded pretty frequently, so I think I'll enjoy it!

    I have been tracking the eBay sales for the past month - seems most of the cars I'd be interested in aren't selling because the owners/sellers have their reserve unmet. I don't know what that says about the market in general, but it is something I am tracking (you should see my spreadsheet!)

    I'll keep an eye out for private sales - but any thoughts on how much realistically I could save by waiting until fall? And when does summer end with respect to cars... my birthday is Labor Day weekend... so would that be a good B-day gift to myself? I'm in no hurry - like your daughter, I can wait until I find what I want.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    I think you can conclude from the fact that the ebay reserves aren't met....is that the buyers in the marketplace, don't value the vehicle as highly as what the owners think of them, or have invested in them and aren't willing to take the depreciation hit on.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Reserve on Ebay=there payoff at the bank :D
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Don't worry... The Bug 'er, Beetle is a cool car for all ages. I looked them over, but passed due to the poor reliability. That's a shame. Mid to late-Septemebr is when prices should be dropping. They really come down in late October. I haven't followed the prices, but would guesstimate $2K to $3K lower.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    They are fine if you can find one with the TDI engine in it, though. This is the main engine they put into VWs in Europe. AND it gets 40+mpg.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Reserve on Ebay=there payoff at the bank :D

    You must not be aware of the number of dealers that use ebay. I looked at vehicles on ebay and most of the ones I were interested in were for sale by dealers. They all had unrealistic prices that went unsold. I probably watched a dozen or so. Why anyone would use ebay is beyond me but that's another discussion.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You must not be aware of the number of dealers that use ebay.
    Man there is a bunch of uptight people here. Notice the :D:D:D:D:D as in I am joking. Yes the dealers are terrible and all there ebay prices are high, they cause world hunger, and if it were not for dealers we would have a cure for cancer and be out of Iraq. :D:D

    Ebay markets to the dealers. We got an offer from them to add are entire used inventory to ebay. There is nothing unique about Ebay anymore.
  • noaagirlnoaagirl Member Posts: 16
    There are a couple of (who I suspect are) private sellers on eBay... there's actually a car on there right now that I'd be interested in for my price - but I can tell since it's been relisted a couple of times what their reserve price is, and I'm guessing that it's their lease payoff or something (since I've researched what the lease payoffs are to get another gauge). Agree that most of those eBay reserves are loan payoffs or lease payoffs.

    In any case, I'd really hate waiting until October (I'm not sure my little car is going to make it - probably it will, but I would look so cute in a convertible this summer :blush: ) but 2-3k is nothing to sneeze at. Hmmm. What to do, what to do. I just wish I had a sense of whether 15k (not including taxes, tages, and registration) was even realistic for what I want.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Sorry for ruffling your feathers joel, I never did figure out what all the special characters meant, :D :P etc etc. Settle down man, it's Friday and I'm looking forward to a long relaxing weekend, glad I'm not in the car biz, you guys must be busy this weekend.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    That $2-3K is just my "guess-ti-mate". Perhaps someone that knows what the real difference in the beginning of the season to the end of season pricing can provide a better estimate.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I don' follow the market closely but for $15,000 right now you might find an '03 or '04 but it's likely to have more miles than you want and/or have had previous damage. Don't overlook other private source advertising (autotrader.com and the like).

    Bear in mind that while one will be cheaper in the September/October time frame, there's two reasons for the price drop: the seasonal adjustment and cars become a year older in most folks' minds.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Holiday weekends are a crap shoot for us, they are either real good or real good bad. The gas prices may keep people around town and increase the traffic a little.

    IMO everything should be closed on Memorial day for people to remember what it is all about. The fact that it has turned into a day to sell cars and mattresses kind of irks me. But I guess thats just the Old Soldier coming out of me.

    We have a running joke here at the dealership about how when you open a Wheels and Deals or what ever it is called in your area that it is a book full of individuals who have been to dealerships and learned they are out of equity and are trying to get payoff for there cars. I guess it did not translate well here. :D
Sign In or Register to comment.