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Dealer vs. independent shop?
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Comments
Well, I am biased, so I would say yes.
My customers can call any time of day or week, they know that I'll tell them if it is something they can do themselves and when their vehicle goes out, they know that I have told them if there is something that should be replaced soon or if they can squeak by for a while without replacing it.
They also know that they can go to my site and discuss it with other mechanics to get their input, if they think I may not be on target with what they want. In fact, I encourage them to.
It has been our opinion that an informed (with correct info) consumer is a better one to deal with.
We probably spend as much time explaining what is wrong and why, as we do on the repair.
Our shop is a little one bay (well, three if we remove the performance stuff and equipment) shop at home. It isn't fancy, but has the tools and equipment to do most any job. We do work from cars and boats to log trucks and heavy equipment. We don't advertise, as it would be too much for us.
I work regular hours for a fleet, in charge of their equipment and my son works in the evenings for another repair shop. During the day, he handles everything, in the evenings, I take up the slack.
So we are not a "normal" shop by any aspect, but it works for us and our customers.
Oh yeah, we have TV and our computer in the shop too. LOL!
Also love_my_truck,
I didn't want you to take my post wrong.
Understand that I spend counltess hours repairing other shop's mess ups, DIYer mistakes and things like that. I also want folks to understand the fact that when they say that a shop is charging more for a part then they can buy it, the shop really isn't "making" money on it, they are covering the costs associated with it. Things like the parts runner, disposal of old parts (especially if there is hazardous waste involved) and cleanup.
I do shop around for prices and will often find the best price I can for name brand parts. Since I buy wholesale, it is usually pretty good, but my customers still pay a percentage more, because I have to pay shipping, handling and disposal and all that.
Most times I can come to around +10% of what they would have to pay.
Let's be realistic, I am doing this to make money. I want to do it as reasonable as I can, but I have to make money to stay in business.
I have bought numerous starters and alternators that have failed very early. Some were bought from brand name parts stores and some were bought from OEM.
I now purchase from a rebuilder that does quality work. And yes, I pay extra for it, but have yet to have one come back, because of failure.
Sounds like the "Ferrari Game" is now being played by other manufacturers---that is, unless you go to the dealer, no one has the tools to fix your car.
I'll have to see if I can get one of our guys to refresh my memory.
I do remember that it was a sealed transmission and there was no dipstick.
Give me a little time and I'm sure one of the guys will jog my memory.
Seesm that they have some kind of sensor for the fluid level. You have to reset the fluid level with the scanner when you add or change the fluid.
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, July 15, 2004 with your daytime phone number and a few words about your experience.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
Just make sure that the technician is a good one, that'd be my only concern.
If there are any lingering affects from the accident, and the service department gives you grief over a warranty repair, having your body repairs done at the same place, with the same service manager can mean a lot.
Deal with it - seriously - if you wreck a car and get denied a warranty claim after the fact, that's just life, and another detriment to owning a avehicle that has been in an accident.
So,, I paid out of my pocket for the repair and now mandate that they sign off the body has no defects before they work on it and I inspect it upon retrieval. trust no one in today's world!
Actually, have not decided it I will ever return to that dealer after the way they brushed me off.
100% sure?
Your idea is a good one. Most smart shops will insist they do a walk around of the car before taking it in. They will notate on the work order any body damage. You would be surprised hoe often they will hear..." Oh, where did that scratch come from?"
Having managed a large shop, I can't tell you how much damage got blamed on us.
To the customer perception is rality. IMO Mitsubishi deserves to go out of business and they are certainly heading in that direction.
I recently purchased a new Subaru WRX and am quite happy with it. There are no specialized indepedant Subaru shops in my area. There however are good indepedants. Are WRX's anything more difficult to work on that requires Subaru specific experience ie only dealer in my case or can a competent independant go for it?
I'm an independent shop fan, but other than normal maintenance, they can't do much for you until the warranty expires - they certainly can't submit a warranty claim to Subaru.
Interestingly, some dealers are very generous to independents and share knowledge and some are not. My friend's Porsche shop and the dealer are quite cosy and they cooperate to mutual benefit but some dealers don't see it this way.
Best possible world is when both your independent and his friends at the dealership are working together to solve your problem.
I know this is not the topic here, but I have come to respect the opinions of some of the folks posting here.
Problem with shocks is that the degradation is so gradual that most people don't really notice it. They'd need new shocks to see what they've been missing.
They did not perform half as well as Nissan pads. It was my fault that I didn't ask for OEM pads. I found out everything that the independent shop purchased was delivered by the local NAPA outlet. Their products are not in the same league as Nissan's. Later, I found out for only $10.00 more, I could have had Nissan brakes installed at the dealership. Also found out that they used bulk oil for my oil change instead of bottles with the proper SAE that Nissan utilized. Never again will I use an independent for mechanical repairs.
To clear up your misconception, however, just because oil is dispensed in bulk has no bearing on whether it meets SAE requirements -
Sorry for your bad experience, but I think it was more bad communication than anything - that, and no understanding of the products used.
Excuse me, but I use bulk oil and make sure that it all meets the manufacturer's specifications.
Just for your information, bulk oil is the same oil as comes from your precious bottle, without the added expense of the bottle.
The bulk oil I purchase is Chevron. Each of the oil weights I use meet specific OEM specifications.
And just to let you know, ALL of the dealers in my area buy their oil in bulk from the SAME oil company.
Here is another prime example of how folks don't seperate facts from fiction.
Well, I couldn't believe that, so I investigated a little further. Turned out the gas station had misunderstood the request (sometimes the cashier answers the phone when the "guy in the back" is busy). BOTH the indies that were experienced with Escapes and Tribs (and would use OEM parts) included the price of turning the rotors, which they strongly recommended, and which raised the price to some $60 over the dealer quote. That dealer quote, OTOH, was just a "bottom line" quote for nothing but replacing two brake pads. Apples to oranges.
How did it turn out? Well, once the gas station got things straightened out, they beat the dealer by $10 (using non-OEM pads) and they got the business. I drive this car quite a bit, and the brakes don't feel anywhere near as good as they did before the brake job, but oh well! They haven't failed either, and my friend was very satisfied at having gotten a "bargain".
For myself, I do minor stuff myself including a lot of the maintenance and the occasional repair. But time is not as plentiful as it used to be, and quite often now I go to the shop. Just to be twisted, I actually switch off between the dealer and a decent local independent, with no particular rhyme or reason! The dealer has free loaner cars, which saves me a lot of hassle, but the independent is cheaper for many things. They both seem to do good work - it is rare I have to return to either and what I can check for myself is always right. For real expensive repairs, I try to get an opinion from both as long as the car is driveable. And I don't use independents that don't use OEM parts, even though I know there are some decent aftermarket parts out there, and that they are usually cheaper. Call me superstitious.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Oh my. The words "cheap" and "repair" should not be used in the same sentence. I can go to the Nissan dealer and pay 30 or 40 dollars for OEM brake pads, or I can go to the local parts house and get a brand I trust like Raybestos or Wagner. Just my opinion. Good for your friend saving 10 dollars on a repair to the system that actually stops the car!
I called Chrysler - they conferred, and told me to take it to my dealer for confirmation of the repair, and call them back.
Anyways, for the exact same repair, my independent was estimating around $1,000, and the Chrysler dealership around $1,300. So for that repair, it would have been $300 cheaper at the independent, and the one tech was a dealer tech for a number of years before going independent about 18 months ago.
(The repair cost me a $200 deductible, as Chrysler picked up the other $1,100 as a "goodwill" warranty repair.)
You should make sure that when the need arises that you give the independant mechanic a chance at the work. He didn't have to direct you to the dealer to save you $1,000.
He was honest enough to lose the sale and save you money. THAT should amount to something.
It is not only stuff like this, but he will do little things (like tighten belts, inspections, etc.) and not charge for them. He is an honest guy.
One issue with dealers is you never know which guy is honest, and which is not. Just like any other business arrangement, an honest man is never forgotten.
I consulted my local independent shop, and gave me a price: $70.00, included everything, parts, labor and tax. I then called my dealer asking their price: "Well; for a complete change and flushing the old one will be just $149.95 + tax..."
You do the math.
I will not use that dealer again for out-of-pocket repairs - just for warranty. They could never "verify" my problems and playing around with me like I am a dummy.
I can write a book - well, actually more than one - of all the rip-offs I got at my dealer.
I once brought my car in for a "Free" oil change (wow!) and some other minor stuff, to be picked-up that afternoon. Lunch time my dealer called me that I need new brakes immediately! (after just 23K miles?) So he needs my approval. OK, if he tells me it's so important, emergency - I wouldn't risk it. "OK, go ahead and do it!" I told him. (well, I guess I AM a dummy, right?)
When I got the bill in the afternoon I was shocked. and I am still shocked. Just for 2 new front brakes they charged me $195.00!!
Should I use this dealer once again? Let me tell you - I'm not that big a dummy! ;-o.......
I agree with you on that subject, which is why I buy only drums.
The oil distributer here flushes the bulk tanks at the dealer with a filtering system every year. Then refills the tanks.
I can see where it could be a problem. Rarely do I ever see any dealer use bottled oil. I usually see independants use bottled oil.
samnoe,
Lunch time my dealer called me that I need new brakes immediately! (after just 23K miles?) So he needs my approval. OK, if he tells me it's so important, emergency - I wouldn't risk it. "OK, go ahead and do it!" I told him. (well, I guess I AM a dummy, right?)
No, not a dummy. You just didn't know.
Always, always ask to see the problem. If you can't see the problem, then get a second opinion.
Brakes are important and they use that to their advantage. No one wants to run around on bad brakes. Ask them how far down the brakes are. 40%, 30%, 20%, what?
When they give you a percentage, ask them how bad the rotors are. Then tell them that you need to see them. Take the time to go in and look.
If you can't go in and ok the work, tell them to save the old parts for your inspection.
After all, the old parts are still your property.
The only time that they can even balk at letting you view the parts is if the old part is to go in for a core. Even then, they should retain the old parts for your inspection.
Even if you have no idea what you are looking at, quite often, it is obvious that the part failed or is worn out.
One thing to remember, any parts removed from your vehicle are still your parts. If you want to take them home, that is your right. Again, the exception would be any part that is to be turned in for a core.
The $149, OTOH, was likely for a "power flush" of the transmission, which is supposed to get out all the old fluid, unlike a drain and refill.
HOWEVER, I remain unconvinced as to whether the power flush is ever really needed. I think it is a high-profit item for the dealers, and I never saw them offered before about the mid-90s. All my friends' older cars seemed to do just fine with a regular fluid change, so I have always recommended against taking a "power flush" when it was offered. They have liked the recommendation because it saved them $80!
Dealers also seem to recommend this service much more frequently than the book calls for.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm surprised there haven't been a gillion lawsuits aimed at private shops and dealerships that push these, because IMO, it significantly lowers the engine's life expectancy.
The engines that can take this operation with no harm don't need it in the first place, and the engine's that could use a good flushing will likely die an early death - I see no credible use for the service (other than profit) unless the pan is pulled.