Toyota Highlander Hybrid

ceric · March 2004

Saving $2000 over 5-7 year is not bad considering the resale value of hybrid would still retain 40% of its original value. For the 4K premium you paid, your lost is only $2400 (60% of 4k). In other words, you pay for all the benefits usbseawolf listed for only $400!!! What a deal!

The bottom line is ... there are people who would pay for being fancy and new and in-style. That alone would create high demand. See what is happening with Priuses. Every dealer has a long waiting list (30-50) for Lexus 400h. Check with your Toyota dealer for Highlander Hybrids. There is a list also. People are paying for MSRP for them. To me, if CA allow HOV lane access for Hybrids, I would buy it in a heart beat! All the rest are icing on the cake.

sorter · March 2004

And the resale for Hybrid will be higher a few years from now because alot more vehicle has hybrid and less people interest in regular engine.

sunbyrne · March 2004

Let's say gas is more like $2.50/gallon, which it now is in some markets, and you have a longer commute, say, you put 15,00 miles/year on the car.

20 mpg = 750 gal = $1875/year in gas cost
28 mpg = 535.7 gal = $1340/year in gas cost

$535/year savings. In seven years, that's $3745. If there's still a tax break when you buy it new (I'm not sure what the status of that is these days), then you're paying virtually *nothing* to get all of the aformentioned benefits plus, of course, reduced environmental impact.

Obviously, if you live somewhere where gas is much cheaper or put less miles on your vehicle, it makes less finiancial sense, at least purely on gas price. But for some poeple, the math already pretty much works out _right now_.

sorter · March 2004

And the resale for Hybrid will be higher a few years from now because alot more vehicle has hybrid and less people interest in regular engine.

usbseawolf2000 · March 2004

It is so true. If I want a hybrid and can't afford a new one, I would be looking for a used one.

Dennis

2003tls · March 2004

I disagree that resale on the Hybrid will necessarily be better in a few years. Hybrid technology changes quickly. Whereas gas engines are relatively the same, how many people want to buy the old Prius when the new one is so much better. Technology constantly changes, and today's hybrid technology may be as undesireable as today's computers in just five years. Something to consider.

john1701a · March 2004

> how many people want to buy the old Prius when the new
> one is so much better.

LOTS!

My traded-in Prius with 59,827 miles was marked up rather high by the dealer. Yet, it was snatched up in just a few days anyway.

Used hybrids are rare, so they don't stay on the market for long even if the technology is a generation old.

JOHN

tcdrake · April 2004

Does anyone know for sure or have an educated guess when the 2005's will be coming out?

Thanks.

Kirstie_H · April 2004

tcdrake, if you mean the '05 Highlander hybrid, this page indicates it'll be in the first few months of 2005.

carguy1234 · April 2004

I was told January delivery with a pre-order made in mid March. I suppose that will start moving out now, as the pre order lists get longer.

lucas · April 2004

What I would REALLY like to have is a 2005 Estima Van. I've been on the waiting list for a 2004 Prius since October but am about to give up and sign-up for the Ford Escape Hybrid.

I MAY buy a highlander if they are available first but I'm going to do a real careful comparison.

If the Estima was available, I doubt that I would ever drive anything else unless they invent a car that uses water for fuel.

lucas · April 2004

I don't understand why there isn't a drive motor on each wheel.

You could mount a fixed stator on each axle. Put high energy magnets on each wheel and you would have all four wheels driving. I'm sure Toyota could work out the control problem.

You saw it here first!

jchan2 · April 2004

I'd buy one too.

backy · April 2004

The closest Toyota dealer to me, which is fifth largest in the Chicago region by sales volume (or so they claim), has 10 people on their HL hybrid preorder list already--and that was as of last Saturday. But they have over 100 Prius buyers on the list, so it's possible (at about 10 Priuses per month) the HL buyers will get theirs before some of the Prius buyers do.

carguy1234 · April 2004

Is that Walser? I bought at Burnsville, and was told I'd get the HL before a Prius due to the long Prius wait list.

backy · April 2004

sdanders · April 2004

generation interesting as they are planning (so I hear) to use electric motors at each wheel which will give the car well over 300HP from the 3.2L V6 that is currently in the car. Acceleration will be phenomenal....Great idea.

ceric · April 2004

A proposal is been strongly supported by our Terminator governor and other high-level state governor officials to pass the state law to allow Hybrids to ride on HOV lanes (we call car-pool lanes here). It went on to say that it is very likely to pass due to recent hike of gas prices. Resistance is weak at this point. The catch ...

- must be 45mpg or above
- limited to 75,000 licenses (controlled by decals)
- raise the threshold to 3 persons (from 2) per vehicle to ride on HOV lanes for regular non-hybrid vehicles
- If passes, it would start on 01/01/2005

Currently, CA allows pure electric vehicles to ride on HOV lanes.

I guess that mean HL-hybrids, Lexus 400h and Accord-Hybrid wouldn't qualify. Prius and Civic Hybrids sales would go through the roof.

The right to ride on HOV lanes, my friends, worths much more than a few thousands $$$$. Time is money.

ch1133 · April 2004

>>The right to ride on HOV lanes, my friends, >>worths much more than a few thousands $$$$. >>Time is money.

It is not few thousands $$$$. I have not seen any hybrids or electric (used or new) for sale below 15K
Since only well off citizens would be able to buy one and the rest of american bottomfeeders would be stuck in traffic I suggest thet anyone making more than 100K would be allowed in HOV lane.
Bring a copy of your tax return to prove to the cop that you qualify

backy · April 2004

FWIW, used Classic Priuses regularly sell for under $15k in my town. There's also a frequent poster in the hybrid-related boards here who picked up a used Insight for $10k.

Also, Civic Hybrids and Priuses sell new starting at just over $20k. Since the average price of a new car these days is over $27k, I don't agree that only "well-off" citizens will be able to buy one. As for the HL hybrid and RX400h--well, those will take some bucks. But they won't qualify for CA's HOV lane exception anyway, nor will the Accord hybrid.

lucas · April 2004

Bought a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid Friday. Haven't driven it much. It's so different from any other car I've owned that I'm spending a lot of time going from the manual to the car and back.

My only reservation was would it have enough pickup to fight the good fight in heavy traffic. It does.

I'll keep it until enough new hybrids are being built that I can get exactly what I want and then trade it.

landdriver · April 2004

I live in CA and heard the talk about allowing hybrids in the carpool lanes. My main concern is after about 10 or 20 years from now when most cars are hybrids and thus would fill-up the carpool lanes what will legislators do then? Raise the MPG limit even more so that hybrids that used to be able to use the carpool lanes can no longer do so?

ceric · April 2004

How about allocating more lanes for HOV when that happens?
Currently, 1 out of 3 lanes at most. But, I think that would be at least 10 years away.

ssachnoff · April 2004

Yikes! If the Walser you're talking about, carguy and backy, is in Bloomington, MN and they are the "fifth largest in the Chicago region by sales volume (or so they claim)[and have]10 people on their HL hybrid preorder list already" then who are numbers 4, 3, 2 and 1 in that area?

I'm in Chicago and have been talking with a couple of dealers about the HL. Some know next to nothing and have no list. Others have two lists; one for Lexus and one for HL. I got myself off the former and onto the latter, supposedly at one south suburban place.

Anybody know who the top 4 Chicago region Toyota dealers are?

dan_p · April 2004

Does anyone have any new info on MSRP for the Highlander Hybrid? I checked with my local dealer in late Jan. and they weren't starting a pre-order list because they didn't have price info.

Also, FYI for those talking about hybrids in HOV lanes. In my travels along I95 I have seen a ton of Hybrids in the HOV lanes because Virginia allows single passengers with Hybrids an exemption. Good policy in my mind.

backy · April 2004

You might want to check with your local dealer again. My dealer wasn't taking preorders in January either, but in March they were and had 10 names on the list already, even though price is unknown. It's a no-risk proposition--if you change your mind, you can just get off the list (be sure there is no penalty for doing that and that you can get off the list for any reason).

carguy1234 · April 2004

I was told pricing will be set this summer (June/July). I have a pre-order in (since March), but have not worked the pricing details yet. I suspect 'grab your ankles' pricing though.

Kirstie_H · April 2004

New article at Edmunds.com
Hot Hybrids

ssachnoff · April 2004

Re: grab your ankles, I just got on a list with a suburban Chicago dealer who assured me that at least they will not sell for OVER MSRP. Be thankful for small favors.

maxx4me · April 2004

great, but what's the MSRP??? 35k?

ssachnoff · April 2004

Buried in this otherwise comprehensive and informative article is the following sentence:

"The hybrid Highlander is slated to arrive in late 2004, while the Lexus RX 400h will arrive in early 2005.

This reverses the conventional wisdom and everything I've read on this site and elsewhere about which comes first, the HL or the RX 400h.

Kirstie, on what information is this new release schedule based?

ssachnoff · April 2004

edmunds says the MSRP for the 2004 6cyl HL with a 3d row seat (as all the Hybrids will have) is $25,990 with an invoice of $23,129. Even if you add $5K for the hybrid technology, the HL MSRP should still be under $32K. We'll find out for sure this summer.

Kirstie_H · April 2004

These arrival dates are based on what our editors have been told by manufacturers. But, if you feel this is in error, you should contact our editorial staff at editor@edmunds.com - it's always possible that we've got it wrong!

ssachnoff · April 2004

edmunds says the MSRP for the 2004 6cyl HL with a 3d row seat (as all the Hybrids will have) is $25,990 with an invoice of $23,129. Even if you add $5K for the hybrid technology, the HL MSRP should still be under $32K. We'll find out for sure this summer.

tglynn · April 2004

The Lexus and Toyota reps at the NY Auto show were saying Lexus - fall 2004 and Toyota - early 2005.

sunbyrne · April 2004

ssachnoff, I think those numbers are for the standard Highlander. I belive the Hybrid will only be initially available as the Limited version, which with 3rd row an automatic is MSRP $29,980 and invoice $26,680.

Tack on a few grand (two? three? five?) for the HSD and with a couple options, it could easily be north of $35K. And I'm going to guess that early on, you'll have to pay full MSRP.

ssachnoff · April 2004

Those MSRP's I quoted from Edmunds were, indeed, the numbers for the "standard" Highlander. I was assured by Toyota reps at the Chicago Auto Show earlier this year that the Hybrid HL would come out in both the "standard" and Limited versions. I also have confirmed as much from the owner of a suburban Chicago Toyota dealer. I agree that any buyer will be paying no less than MSRP and I also am resigned to the likelihood that the first Hybrid HL's that hit dealer floors, whether they be "standard" or Limited, will be loaded with extras that will drive up the MSRP. Here's hoping I can get one that's not too loaded and, therefore, closer to the 32K I cited in my earlier post.

sunbyrne · April 2004

Aha! I seem to remember seeing somewhere that they were only going to release it as a Limited--I'm very happy to hear that's not the case. Should save me a couple grand...

backy · April 2004

I have heard that the RX400h is coming before the HL hybrid from my local sales rep, who seems particularly in the know on Toyota hybrids.

hongcho · April 2004

Every dealer I've talked to says 400h coming first.

Just go to the Lexus.com and look at the FAQ for 400h. It says Fall 2004.

Also, it doesn't make sense to sell the cheaper product first. No one will go for the more expensive one.

Hong.

bpwrightwv · April 2004

The tax deduction for 'approved' clean fuel hybrid vehicles is as follows:
$2000 for 2003 tax year
$1500 for 2004 tax year
$1000 for 2005 tax year
$500 for 2006 tax year
The deduction is taken by the original owner in the year purchased. Ex: you buy a Prius in 2004, you can deduct $1500, even if you do not itemize. Currently, neither the Lexus nor Highlander are on the IRS approved list. No reason they shouldn't be added, though.
In any event, assume it will be added for 2005 tax year, you'll be able to take a $1000 deduction. In order to figure that into your costs/savings, multiply by your marginal tax rate

Kirstie_H · April 2004

Well, the IRS, like any large entity, is probably just slow in updating records. Since these hybrids are 2005 model years, perhaps they'll be added for the 2005 tax year.

dan_p · April 2004

Got fed up with not hearing from my local dealer, so I went by last week. I asked them what interest had been like and they said they were getting 2-3 calls a day. I asked if they had a list, they said no. I talked with them a bit more and the sales rep started a contact list with my name on top. Persitance pays. I guess in this case though I'm being persistant so that I can pay.

My dealer said price info was coming in July along with a $500 deposit for a Jan. delivery at the earliest. Hope this helps.

lamontbond · May 2004

i read an article today in the express, a free newspaper given to comuters on the D.C. metro system, discussing the added concern of high voltage in hybrids in case of an accident.

rescue workers are concerned that they might get electrocuted by the 500 volts running through the engine when they cut through a car to get to the passengers. The hybrid manufacturers siad the engine is designed to shut down in an accident, i just wanted to give a heads up

coolguyky7 · May 2004

Here's an article on the safety precautions Toyota has taken on its Prius model concerning crashes:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20040504a

Kirstie_H · May 2004

We've got a separate discussion created for this issue:
Hybrids in the News

petl · May 2004

Is it possible Toyota will advance the life cycle of the current Highlander (from 5 to 4-4.5 years)? I can't see Toyota introducing a 2005 Hybrib in its current model and 6 months later re-introducing a new model. Toyota is not in the habit of wasting money. Would it not make sense to introduce a redesigned Highlander early next year... which would include a Hybrid version? Seems logical. Just a thought. In any case I'm going to wait.

carguy1234 · May 2004

I agree with that, the timing doesn't seem right to me either. I had left a message with my Toyota contact, but haven't heard anything back yet. We'll see.

maxhonda99 · May 2004

Or Toyota could stretch out the lifespan of the current Highlander for a few more years, say from 5 to 7 years? They just installed the 3.3L V6 in the Highlander and Toyota has already introduced the Hybrid Highlander to the public thru the autoshow circuit.

petl · May 2004

It could be possible. I personally think it needs a redesign (it's a little dated, although it is nicer than the Pilot). Maybe it's wishful thinking that a new model will be available earlier. It's the reason why we haven't purchased one (my wife thinks it looks like a boxy truck). Time will tell.

Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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