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From a Hybrid cars website:
"Just like the battery under the hood of your current vehicle, a Hybrid vehicle's electric battery pack may eventually wear out and need to be replaced. However, auto manufacturers are stating that the Hybrid's battery is designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle - somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. It is simply too early to tell."
But think about this: How many AAA and AA batteries do you think are thrown away in the USA today every day? These larger car battery packs will either be recycled as much as possible, or just become another mound of waste at the landfill or just stay in the car when the car gets junked.
That's really no reason to throw the whole technology "under the bus" so to speak....
when you say the current battery problem is bad enough does that mean the 12 volt batteries we all have now are over whelming us or are hybrid owners having failures & in 3 or 4 years when all the hybrid batteries fail which ones will go first the ones that have been in use for a few years now or are they all bound to prematurely fail ? I agree hybrids will only be in use till hydrogen power comes of age.
The latest news is that Porsche might use Toyota's 270hp Hybrid Synergy Drive(same as in HH and 400H) in Cayenne.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/7684793146068882/
"Now to the point - In about three to four years, when all the hybrid batteries go bad, where will we literally dump all the wastes?"
Lead acid battery that start our traditional cars go bad in 3-4 years. NiMH(Nickel Metal Hydride) Hybrid Vehicle battries are designed to last 10-15 years(lifetime of the car). It has been 7 years since the first Prius launched in Japan and the batteries hasn't "go bad" yet. There is a battery recycling plant literally waiting for batteries to come in.
The current battery problem is bad enough but now we will multiply many times over?"
In term of battery size(electric charge capacity), a small Toyota Rav4 SUV electric vehicle has 20 times larger battery pack than Highlander Hybrid. Rav4 EV also has limited range and highway cruising speed.
The batteries that hybrid vehicles use are environmentally friendly. NiMH does not have heavy toxic metal unlike traditional lead acid. The beauty of recycling NiMH is that recovered materials pays for itself. It's not short-term view. In fact, it had been well thought out. You can find more info here.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environmental_rep/04/index.html
Dennis
The reason they can put 150,000 miles warrenty is because they tested them! I got a hold of the test data for the first two generation of NiMH HV battery pack. Note, 04 Prius use 3rd gen NiMH. Highlander Hybrid suppose to use 4th gen NiMH pack with even higher energy density.
The first gen NiMH HV battery uses cylindrical shape. 2nd gen is prismatic(rectangular) and so on.
I disagree. The first mass produced Fuel Cell vehicle will also be a hybrid. The reasons are due to the start up time of the Fuel Cell stack and to recover energy from braking. But one day, there will be fuel cell stack technology that can output enough power in a few seconds from the start, to drive away. Maybe, have on board hydrogen generator to produce while regen braking. Until then, Fuel Cell vehicles will remain a hybrid.
Dennis
The reason they put 150k mile warranty is it is mandated by the state of California. I think the 15 years that is required to get AT-PZEV rating is going to be the tough one to live with. That is a long time for a battery of any kind to last.
In 25 months, the owner had put 332,000 kilometers (approx. 200,000 miles) on it. During that time it did not require any repairs to the hybrid system, or any major repairs beyond normal maintenance.
The only reason it was taken off the road was because Toyota wanted it back. Toyota offered to trade his vehicle for a 2003 so they could ship it to Japan, strip it down and check out every part. They wanted to see how the hybrid powertrain actually looked after all those kilometers. The article also talks about the mileage he was getting and the fact that the Prius required less overall maintenance than the conventional North American vehicles the company uses, including fewer wear and tear problems. You can find the article @ Toyota.ca under "What's New" - Toyota Gazette.
Hope this is not old news.
It all depends on Toyota resolving the battery supply problem and what/which/how much hybrid traction batteries Toyota/Lexus decides to allocate to their various hybrid vehicle model lines.
Hope you like your Highlander when you finally receive it.
YMMV,
MidCow
I would think that would affect the RX400h as well. They are the same chassis from my understanding.
Hong.
Personally I think the Highlander is a much better looking vehicle than the RX400h. The RX series looks like an egg with decorations. Nice at easter but not all year long.
http://www.toyota.com/highlander/minisite/
You mean next year for the 06 model. That has been my specualtion since early October Post 253.
HH will arive as a new redesigned model. Hopefully it will be a bit more exciting than the current highlander.
HH most likely will arive as a new redesigned model. What is the logic of introducing a hybrid vehicle that will have to be re-designed within a year? Also the media seems to be focusing exclusively on the upcoming RX400h.
Probably you are right! Imagine if there are major improvements to a new redesigned HH. The HH would most likely cannibalize sales from the RX400H. This would not be in Toyota's interest.
Imagine the hefty profit margins Toyota would lose on a 52k RX400h each time someone chooses to buy a HH instead.
Still the old design of the highlander in future years may begin looking stale when future redesigned SUVs (most likely hybrid versions)are introduced.
There is a viable market for spy shots. It would make no sense for Toyota to pre-empt spy shooters from providing photos of a redesigned highlander. So obviously why not show the old model and surprise the market with a new model!
This is specualtation ofcourse, but this speculation does make some sense.
I also found on the Toyota site that the Highlander is scheduled for a redesign on the 2007 model. I really want to pick up the hybrid when it hits the market, but it sucks that the design will change within 2 years.
Somehow in the back of my mind I too remember reading a year or so ago (Motortrend or the like web site) that the HL would be redesigned in MY 2007...
Or did you just make a guess by going by Toyota's redesign schedules?
Since the Highlander is based on the platform of the Camry, it probably makes sense to introduce the new Highlander after the new 07 Camry is introduced. Just like the new Pilot will not be introduced until the 08 Accord is redesigned.
As for the redesign, I would think they would wait until the new Camry comes out in 2007, though this current Highlander, which uses the current (2002+) Camry platform, actually preceeded it by one model year (2001). If we go by that, then the new HL should come out as a 2006, preceding a new, redesigned Camry by one model year.
If memory serves me right the recent Corolla was introduced 6 months early (the previous model lasted 4 1/2 years). It was released at the same time as the Matrix in Feb 2002 as a 2003 model. I believe the Sienna (which received a major change) was released early in 2003 as a 2004 model. The previous model had been out for for about 5 1/2 years. The RAV was 5 years. The Camry has always been 5 (except the first gen. which was 4). No one knows for sure, my guess is that a redisned HL will be released as a 2006 in 2005. The latest release would be in early 2006 as a 2007. If not, they will have to drastically discount them. People will be expecting a change in the near future. We get bored quickly.
Honda's decision to increase their cycles propably saves them a ton of money. Also, Honda is trying hard to beat Toyota (Honda fans will not want to admit it). Why not copy a successful recipe. Honda feels that timely releases of certain models may give them an advantage. In some cases I'm sure it does. I believe that the buyers will benefit in the long run (regardless which vehicle you purchase).
I'm not an expert in the field. I'm just an interested observer with an opinion. Sorry if I mislead anyone.
Suppose the Hybrid came out with the old body style, and the regular Highlander was redone, at least initially?
Sorry, I misunderstood your statement, since the Sienna is not on a 5-year update cycle.
It is actually in automakers' best interests to keep buyers guessing about update cycles. When they followed a set pattern, buyers could say, "Hmm, I know the Highlander will be all-new next year, so I'll just keep my old Betsy one more year." Now, when we have no idea when the next generation is coming, buyers might be more prone to buy NOW. Just a thought.
I'm still guessing that the 2006 HL will have new sheetmetal. In any case, we will soon find out.
Usually when there will be a re-design, a picture will be shown. For example, a few weeks ago the Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail showed the new redesign BMW 3 series and Jetta, respectively. Both models will not be introduced until spring.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/L- ayout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&am- p;cid=1102027808294
you may have to scroll down a bit.
I hope there will be redesign! I find current Highlander quite unexciting. In fact AWD Sienna seems more exciting than the current Highlander
By Dale Jewett
Automotive News / December 13, 2004
Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. will use next month’s Detroit auto show as the stage to unveil a pair of future production vehicles and a pair of concepts.
The concept vehicles are:
A Toyota concept of a new sport wagon. The automaker did not provide any other details. But it is possible the concept could be a precursor of the redesigned Highlander sport wagon, due for a makeover for the 2006 model year. The redesigned Highlander is expected to have a longer wheelbase to accommodate three rows of seats.
BUT the concept sport wagon may not be a precursor to the redesigned Highlander. My question is can a Highlander be considered a sport wagon(is not a sport wagon a fancy way of saying station wagon)? Please correct me if I am wrong.
The Highlander is due for a makeover in 2006, but will that mean there will be a makeover? Sometimes product cycles can vary from 5 years to longer.
to move the goods. But these vehicles like
Highlander, CR-V are utility vehicles which provide
more comfort to rear seat passengers with the
reclining seat and also has a cargo capacity which
is 50 % more than a sedan of the equal length & width.
So these vehicles are called CUV if they are small
and SUV when they are big. Station Wagon is an
outmoded term.