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Honda Ridgeline SUT

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I was wrong to suggest that if Honda were to offer the Ridgeline with a tailgate-mounted/hinged spare, that it would be a first for a pickup. The Hummer H2 SUT is already thusly equipped. Still, it's a good solution to an exhisting problem.

    http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/home.jsp

    Click on on H2 SUT links. Note that the SUT's spare tire hinged gate is actually mounted to the bumper, and not the rear fender. I like this idea even better, as it is less disrupting to the styling (black tire gate blends into the black bumper very nicely).

    Bob
  • jay_24jay_24 Posts: 536
    Sorry Bob I disagree with swinging tailgate/spare idea. I grew up with my parent's old station wagon of the 70's and 80's with the swinging tailgate and owned a S-15 Jimmy with the swinging spare. They worked well when they had room and a parked level. On any kind of incline they were a PAIN. Either hard to close or wouldn't stay open. One worse for the spare tire was forgetting to close it and then driving off. It closed with a bang after a block or so...

    --j
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    That sounds more like lousy GM engineering than anything else. If it have a cam-like hinge, like that found on car doors, it would stay open; as for hard to close, again, lousy GM engineering.

    Years ago I had an early Isuzu Trooper with a rear door (not a hatch). When that door was open, it locked in place. The way you closed it, you reached down, pushed a release lever and then it would close. No problems whatsoever with latching and/or closing when not wanted. A rear tire gate could easily be engineered to work the same way.

    With any solution there are going to be compromises of one sort or another.

    Bob
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    "I've never met a Ford owner in person that wasn't filled with complaints about their truck."

    Well, this is your lucky day. I wouldn't trade my F-150 for any other truck on the planet. Wonderful ride, loads of power and a joy to drive. We all drive and buy what we like. Maybe if we stick to facts and avoid urban myths and personal opinions we would all get along so much better. I appreciate what the Ridgeline is made to do and can see why it would be appealing to Joe Homeowner. It's just not for me.
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    Will the Ford V-8 give you 21 MPG? Now, and let's be honest here...between a Ford and a Honda, who would you pick to run the longest with the least amount of problems? My Ford Explorers, all three of them, were just junk. I got so tired of 'living' at the dealership

    First, of course we don't get 21 mpg city driving. I get 14. Second, your statement about the Explorer robbed you of your credibility, IMO. No one would buy a third piece of junk if they had bought two pieces of junk to begin with. I contend your Explorers (if they existed) were just fine. Besides, you can't compare Explorers to Ridgelines here.
  • "In the interest of posting accurate information...The figure at the end of the year was 42,593. That was a 10 month total, as you wrote. And they are very likely to make the 50K figure they announced at release. But they have not made it, yet."
    Again, get your facts straight before you post.
    :P
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    I got the numbers from the flareside F-150 (so many configurations I missed that detail).

    Thanks for pointing out one of the things that makes the Ford F-150 such a nice truck!
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    You know, you can configure these trucks any way you want to make the numbers say what you want them to say. Here's one:

    2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL (3.5L 6 cyl/5A)
    255 hp/252 ft-lbs torque @ 4500 RPM
    Max Payload: 1554 lbs
    Max Towing: 5000 lbs

    2006 Silverado LT 4dr Crew Cab 5.8 ft SB (5.3L 8cyl/4A)
    295 hp/335 ft-lbs torque @ 4000 RPM
    Max Payload: 1913 lbs
    Max Towing: 7700 lbs

    2006 F-150 Lariat SuperCrew 5.5 ft SB (5.4L 8cyl/4A)
    300 hp/365 ft-lbs torque @ 3750 RPM
    Max Payload: 1710 lbs
    Max Towing: 8500 lbs

    (source: edmunds.com comparison feature)

    The payload and towing possibilities can go on and on. I did not look at 4WD trucks for two reasons. One, because the RL is not 4WD, it is AWD. There is a big difference between the two. Two, you would only tow in 4WD if you were pulling a boat out of the water or something heavy up a hill. Not for towing a trailer down the highway.
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    "I checked the F-150 and even with the 5.4L its payload is lower than the Ridgeline."

    Don't you just hate it when the facts get in the way of a good story?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    One, because the RL is not 4WD, it is AWD.

    Oh really? Tell that to Toyota. They market their Highlander (AWD) as 4WD, same with the RAV4. Honda markets the CRV, Pilot and Ridgeline (AWD) as 4WD. Subaru used to market their AWD as 4WD.

    Yeah, yeah, I know they don't have a low range, or a dedicated part-time 4WD mode—but still all 4 wheels are being powered, and is therefore 4WD (or AWD if you please).

    4WD and AWD are nothing more than "marketing" terms, and each manufacturer uses either term depending on the kind of image they want to evoke.

    Let me ask you this: Is the full-time AWD found on the GMC Denali and Caddy Escalade not 4WD? It's on a full-size truck platform, and powers all 4 wheels all the time, but it doesn't have a low range.

    Bob
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,626
    how does toyota 'market' their pickup trucks?
    IMO. they are 4wd. highlander, etc, are awd.
    there is a difference between 4wd and awd.
    explorers were available in awd OR 4wd versions. seperate models.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • tcasboytcasboy Posts: 214
    I must say to the Honda folks that if you just ignored all the comments from the 'Merican truck owners they might actually go away and play on their own forum.

    Keep in mind that I own 2 Hondas, a CR-V and an Ody, but I would love to have a Ridgeline. They are cool trucks. I have been very impressed with the 3 Honda cars and 7 different Honda motorcycles I have owned. They have all been great. The Ridgeline trunk in my opinion is very cool and smart. The areas that concern me about the Ridgeline is the styling, both interior and exterior, and the way the bed scratches up so easily. I have test driven 2 or 3 and looked at at least a hundred of them, and the bed gets really scuffed up. I would get a Rhino spray in liner even with the composite bed, just for the aesthetics if nothing else.

    I have also owned 4 Fords: 2 pickups, both Supercabs, one 4WD and one 2WD, an AWD V-8 Explorer and even an Aerostar minivan. All of those Fords were great vehicles. I can't say they were completely trouble free, but everything was taken care of under warranty and in a reasonable amount of time and that is all I feel you can ask for. You can say that I am a Ford fan as well (just ask my kids, they know that our family "hates Chevys".

    Before I bought my 06 CR-V I test drove the new Explorer, the new F-150, Escape, the Ridgeline and Pilot too. They are all nice vehicles meant to be just right for somebody. I honestly think Ford went way in the wrong direction on their new interiors in the F150 and the Explorer, but I don't bash people who buy them. If you like it and the vehicle fits YOUR needs, go for it.

    To argue about whose truck is better objectively is pretty amusing to watch from the sidelines but I doubt anybody is going to change any minds in this venue.

    Ok, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

    TB
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    IMO. they are 4wd. highlander, etc, are awd.

    Maybe in your opinion they're AWD, but Toyota puts a "4WD" badge on them, and refers to their drive system in all their marketing a "4WD."

    My point is that any vehicle in which all 4 wheels are powered is 4WD. Yes, the term "4WD" is often referred to rugged, truck-based vehicles, whereas "AWD" is mostly meant for on-road vehicles—but regardless—they're all "4WD."

    As I said before, it's nothing more than a MARKETING game.

    Bob
  • "Maybe in your opinion they're AWD, but Toyota puts a "4WD" badge on them, and refers to their drive system in all their marketing a "4WD.""

    The Sienna & Highlander are AWD. The Rav4, 4Runner and all the trucks are 4WD. The two systems are different, especially if they need to be towed, both are appropriately badged.

    I was flipping through brochures in a dealership just last week and this was very apparent.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Go look at the back of the RAV4 and Highlander and see what kind of badge Toyota sticks on them (hint: it isn't "AWD").

    Next time don't "flip" through those brochures. Read them instead and you will not see the term AWD used, but you will see 4WD used.

    Bob
  • My mistake on the Highlander.

    Since you're the reading expert, I would have thought you would notice that I mentioned the Rav4 was badged and advertised as 4WD.

    I noticed you left out the AWD Sienna?
    http://www.toyota.com/sienna/specs.html
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    "Is the full-time AWD found on the GMC Denali and Caddy Escalade not 4WD? It's on a full-size truck platform, and powers all 4 wheels all the time, but it doesn't have a low range."

    Hey, Bob, those AWD SUVs are not 4WD. There is a difference. Four wheel drive is usually selected for a certain situation and then you put it back in RWD. It is a more "rugged" application. AWD is more of a way to maintain traction in the rain. Let me ask you, would you rather deliver medicine across the Sahara or up the side of a mountain in an AWD Highlander, Ridgeline, Forester or Escalade or in a 4WD F-150, Suburban or Land Rover? Of course you would choose 4WD.

    Many AWD systems do not give the same power to all wheels like 4WD does. 4WD offers high and low range options. Some AWD systems like on Honda CR-V and Saturn VUE really run FWD 99% of the time. It's only when the front wheels lose traction that the rear wheels kick in--and then turn right back off when traction is restored. Some are full time--like on Subarus. There is a difference--and it's not just because Honda uses AWD.
  • "Some are full time--like on Subarus. There is a difference--and it's not just because Honda uses AWD."

    True for SOME Subarus...

    Subie uses several different systems.

    Most of the automatic tranny equipped Subies use a system similar to Honda's Real-Time system, with clutches driving the rear wheels when needed. Other Subarus, including all manual transmission and high-performance autos, use a mechanical system that can't be shut off. The giveaway to which system a given Subaru has is the presence of an "FWD" fuse slot and often the size of the spare tire. Inserting a fuse in this normally-empty slot locks the car into front wheel drive, allowing a donut spare to be used or the car to be towed with the rear wheels on the ground.

    The mechanical Subaru AWD system cannot be disengaged, so a narrow, but full circumference spare is included. These must always be flatbedded.

    Subaru also builds some non-USA spec cars with a dual-range transfer case, so I guess that would be yet another sister, possibly based on the older 4WD system?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Re: Your RAV4 comment. Yep, my mistake.

    I left out the Sienna because Toyota markets it as AWD, not 4WD.

    Bob
  • It's a moot point any more. My Silverado is a true 4WD, but the Auto4WD mode works like many AWD vehicles in that it powers two drive wheels (rear, in this case) unless slip is detected, at which point it transfers power to the front. The real difference in this situation is that I have a selectable mode that is rear-wheels-only in addition to a high and low range transfer case.

    Some AWD systems are pretty impressive in the methods they use too, though. Especially those that are continuously delivering power to all four wheels, but vary the bias depending on which is getting the best traction.

    Both have their pros and cons. I actually would favor AWD for most on-road uses (thinking about what I'd let my wife drive) because it's mostly idiot-proof (not saying my wife's an idiot- sorry honey ;) ). No need to decide if you need to be in 4wd or figure out how to change modes for it.

    grove4:
    Basically, drive conservatively.
    -Follow the speed limit, at least in 65mph+ zones. These bricks suffer exponential mileage losses as speed goes up, thanks to wind resistance
    -Accelerate slowly, as if there is an egg under the throttle. A good compromise, especially with GM vehicles, is to keep the engine under 2000 rpms most of the time.
    -Avoid speed changes as much as possible. Slowing down and speeding up uses more fuel than steady cruising.
    -Anticipate stops / slow downs. If there's a stoplight coming up try to time it so that there's no need to stop, don't follow other traffic so slowly that a turning vehicle in front requires hard braking, etc.
    -tonneau cover? Lightweight cloth cover may be best. I really saw no change for my fold-a-cover hard cover, but the added weight may offset any slight mileage improvement.
    -If you don't have a tonneau or a topper, keep the tailgate up. Conventional wisdom might make you think that the flat upright surface blocks air, creating drag. But several different studies have shown the opposite (college studies, MythBusters, to name two sources I've seen). In fact, the tailgate traps a pocket of swirling air behind the cab, which serves as a buffer to the air traveling over the truck, directing it down behind the tailgate / bumper. Lowering the tailgate disrupts the trapped bubble and results in air being directed vertically down on the (now) horizontal surface, and actually increases the drag.

    As far as my experiences have gone, driving style has made the biggest difference. Don't drive aggressively and be a bit patient, and mileage goes up. Start getting angry or rushing, getting a heavier foot, and it drops like a rock.
    (This probably would work in a Ridgeline too- I'm guessing I could see higher mileage than average Ridge owners, but haven't driven one to see, so..)
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Most of the automatic tranny equipped Subies use a system similar to Honda's Real-Time system, with clutches driving the rear wheels when needed

    Only partially true. Unlike the the Honda Real-time 4WD, all Subies, regardless of the AWD system used are 100% AWD all the time. The Honda unit reverts to FWD when not needed.

    The Subie may shift power fore and aft, as per the Honda, but never are the rear wheels not driven.

    Bob
  • Which means it works more like the AutoTrac 4WD system in GMs that I described above (Auto4wd mode). Except that I believe the Ridgeline can't go into 4WD above certain speeds? (not certain) The 4WD system in my truck can, and I can also run it in 4WD HI at highway speeds (not a usual occurrence, however).
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    It's still all marketing, no matter how you slice it. Yeah, when you hear the term "4WD" you assume it it's more rugged—until you see a RAV4 or Highlander "4WD."

    The VW Touareg has an excellent off-road full-time 4WD system with a high and low range, yet I bet many will call it AWD.

    Bottom line: I know where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with you; but I still say it's more about marketing than anything else.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Maybe, maybe not. I'm under the impression that AutoTrac (and Ford's ControlTrac) operate in 2WD until slippage is detected. If so, that's different than the Subie system. It's always in AWD, but when slippage occurs, more power is sent to the rear wheels. At no time is there no power being sent to the rear wheels on any Subaru.

    Subie AWD systems:

    Manual trannys (except STi): Viscous coupling 50/50 front-to-rear default power split

    STi: Driver-controlled power split ranging from 41/59 to 59/41 (2006 models) front-to-rear power split

    Non-VDC/VDT automatics: Electronic clutch coupling 90/10 front-to-rear default power split

    VDC/VDT automatics: Electronic clutch coupling 45/55 front-to-rear default power split

    Bob
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    "Unlike the the Honda Real-time 4WD, all Subies, regardless of the AWD system used are 100% AWD all the time. The Honda unit reverts to FWD when not needed."

    That is AWD, not 4WD. Also, is the RL FWD unless the rear wheels are needed (like on CR-V) or is it full time AWD?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The CRV has an "on-demand AWD," meaning it's FWD until AWD is needed. The Ridgeline. Pilot and MDX work pretty much the same way. Unlike the CRV, those models are in 4WD from a dead stop, then switch back to FWD. They also revert to 4WD under accelleration, so yes, that is a more advanced system that what the CRV uses. Under cruising they are all FWD, however.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    then I'll shut up :)

    The Dodge Durango/Dakota and the Jeep Grand Cherokee/Commander both offer a high-range-only full-time AWD/4WD. It's virtually the same unit on both the Dodge and Jeep.

    Jeep calls it "4WD," and Dodge calls it "AWD."

    I'm tellin' ya, it's marketing—and it confuses customers to no end, as this rather lengthy AWD/4WD discussion shows.

    Bob
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    My facts are straight. The figure at the end of the calendar year was 42,593.

    My source is a Honda press release posted on the official Honda media site.

    If you're trying to explain how Flint's remarks do not match up with Honda's own figures... I cannot help you. My best guess is that he was using sales to date (including the first weeks of January).

    No need be antagonistic about it.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Hi Uga91,

    If you wish to point out that these full-size vehicles can haul as much as the Ridgeline, but only if you remove all passengers, and all cargo, and all optional equipment, and the 4WD system, and then add a V8 engine, then, yes, I concede the point.

    But I'm of the opinion that such a statement makes these full-sizers sound kinda pitiful.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Which means it works more like the AutoTrac 4WD system in GMs that I described above (Auto4wd mode). Except that I believe the Ridgeline can't go into 4WD above certain speeds? (not certain)

    Not certain if this was already addressed. Pardon me if this is redundant.

    VTM-4 operates under reactive mode at ALL TIMES. In this mode, the system responds to throttle input as well as slippage. The best description for this would be "electronically engaged 4 wheel drive". Doesn't matter if you're doing 5 mph or 100 mph.

    At low speeds, the driver may put the vehicle in either L1 or L2 and press the VTM-4 Lock button. This locks the front and rear axles together sending power in a 50/50 split. This is more or less just like the old 4x4 systems some folks are so enamored with. Except the VTM-4 system also locks the two half-shafts on the rear axle. That means it functions like a locking rear differential. This mode will automatically release when you drive above 18 mph. If you return below 18 mph, it will engage once more (assuming you haven't moved the gear selector).

    That LOCK MODE is the one people most often get confused about. Hope that helps.
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