Does it count that I am back married to my first & last wife, that I married the first time in 1964? The other 3 still like me! All divorces settled without the aid of an attorney. For those that care use a mediator and save a lot of money. More than you will save driving a hybrid.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
After looking at the link you provided it shows the V6 as 6 and the Hybrid at 8 for the "states score"
After reading their description of this test and how the results are achieved I must point something out. These test check standard emisions from a running engine (on all cylinders). Much of the time the Hybrid is only running on half of the cylinders and is not running at all at stops and in stop and go traffic.
The point is, the engine on an ICE-only Accord NEVER turns off (unless you turn the key). The ICE on the HAH does shut down under some conditions, and at those times it is emitting zero pollutants, including CO2.
Actually yes. There are some conditions though. If the temperature outside is above 105 or below 5 The autostop is disengaged. The A/C, which as you elude to is needed for the defrost as well, is electric and mechanical. It is fully capable of continuing operation while the engine is off. Likewise for the power steering and brakes. I'm not here to argue with those of you who seem to want to. I don't make the case the the HAH is either the most economical vehicle nor the "greenest" but it IS a BIG step in the right direction.
This thread is about the HAH right? As someone who came here initially to find others who share the same interest, it seems to me this thread has become less about the Accord and more about adds, mileage and epa bickering. I started off here feeling excited and wanting to share. Now every time I read the latest, my brow furrows and I feel like I am on defense. Why should I feel like I have to defend my purchase every time I log in here? Sure it's expensive. Sure there are other options. I bought this car because I like it not because I'm single handedly saving the planet nor because I'm going to get rich off the fuel savings. I just like the car! This forum..not so much anymore...
If there are those of you still interested in discussing the CAR, other forums do exist. I mean no offense to those running or moderating this forum but, sheeeesh!
Yes it is, and YOUR input is vital. You gave the answer I was interested in. I may not want an HAH, but am interested in the technology. If they decided to hybridize the ODY I may consider it. I was interested enough to go sit in an HAH. Drifting off into other areas is not all bad. I think that most of the debate on the HAH is the statement it makes and whether it is the correct statement.
If I recall correctly you are over 60 years old and get no more little kids. It's about time for you to get a Hybrid sport car like the HAH, not a big and slow (hybrid) Ody. You deserve a fast car to enjoy yourself now. My 'over-hill" in-law just bought a two-seater sport Mercedes Benz with no navi. and he rarely drives it. He just covers it real carefully and parks it in the garage at all time to keep its gorgeous burgundy color more and more shiny. It is so expensive to him to drive it around. Poor little guy !
You are a guy that would be hard not to like. I go through stages of wanting a sports car. We need two cars now. One for our home in Hawaii and one to travel the USA. Fuel in Hawaii is very expensive so that was one of the reasons I looked into the hybrids. I can get B100 biodiesel in Hawaii so the diesels are also an option. Truthfully your description of the HAH NAV was why I went to look at Honda's. The HAH is too small for cross country travel. We could probably get by with the Odyssey EX-L with NAV. It is a decent vehicle. I have read poster's that did not think the ride was as good as the Sienna. So there you have my situation. Sounds like you are real happy with the HAH and that is great.
Please don't leave! Seriously. You are absolutely correct that there is way too much noise on this forum. But the more sane people leave, the more noise.
And you are also correct that people have to spend way too much time defending their consciencious decision to (1) use less gas, and (2) spew less pollutants. And (3) have a car they like.
What you said needed saying. It's exactly what many of us have been feeling for quite a while.
I also get frustrated defending my car and did not log on for a couple of weeks. But decided I would miss to much valuable information from people like yourself not to participate. I now dismiss the HAH bashing as I believe it is brought on by either misinformed people, people that just like to bring others down and by people jealous of us. I have decided they are not going to rain on my parade.
I'm like you, I love my car and do not have to defend my investment to anyone especially to people that don't own one or have never even sat in one. I speak from experience and don't make up stats as I go to start something.
I plan on continuing to report the good and the bad as I add miles to my beauty and ignore the cesspool of disgust some people bring to this forum.
You bring alot to this table and I enjoy reading your comments and opinions.
A hybrid would be really great in Hawaii. Especially the big island. Perhaps you can find a good deal on a used Insight. Even if you have to freighter it over, it would pay for itself in fuel savings fairly quickly. Another alternative would be to get a vespa for you and the Mrs.
I agree. I want a PU or station wagon. If Honda built a Civic wagon hybrid I would give it serious consideration. If they built a HAH wagon with a 4 cylinder it would be considered.
I agree with all of your comments! I, too, stay away from here, hoping that when I sneak back it will be better. But it seems to be the same depressives and obsessives, trying to "kill a little time," as they say.
If any of you can express in words the driving experience of the HAH, I'm all ears.......
I agreed with Jim Mateja that the running HAH switches from 6 engines to 3 engines 100% seamlessly. I do not feel anything except the ECO green light turning on the dash board indicating the car is running on 3 engines only to save gas. I have noticed I got the ECO green light almost all the time when I am driving on highway or expressway even with traffic interruptions.
that was one of the worst reports I have seen. a waste of time--what good is it if you are specifically testing a hybrid and then don't give the fuel economy figures. I couldn't care less about the buying experience at the dealer. Wake up and get with it.
I thought I had learned a long time ago not to post in haste or in anger. Seems as though I forgot that lesson last night and ended up doing both!
1st) Gagrice I did not mean to reply to you and then spew forth. I was NOT directing this at you or anyone else for that matter. I should have been clearer on that and to you I apologize specifically!
2nd) While I can’t in good conscience take back what I said as my feelings really haven’t changed, I do recognize that forums are the way they are. I have had an overall good experience here. Last night I was in a bad mood and I inadvertently let it reflect in my post. For that I apologize to the rest of you!
3rd) I want to thank those of you who posted such kind remarks to my post. It was very humbling and I confess I might not have been so kind. I think I came off like a big baby and for that I apologize to myself!
Now, Back to our regularly scheduled forum.
I must admit that the while my HAH transitions seamlessly most of the time it does have its moments. There are several “transitional” states and I’m not sure where the “bumps” occurs but it does “bump” occasionally. I think it happens most often, though certainly not every time (10% ?), when in ECO with some IMA being applied and then goes to full 6 cylinder operation. When this happens I will feel a “bump” somewhat like a hard tranny shift while hitting a small pothole in the road. It may happen in other times but since I try to avoid watching my instrument cluster constantly while driving I’m not completely sure. This is the kind of thin that will probably be corrected in later models. It is by no means bad nor would I have not bought the car had I known. I just feel it is important to mention the negatives when I find some.
To be clear, here are some of the transitional states I can think of:
It makes sense you'd notice a "bump" when switching from less power (3 cylinders) to more power (6 cylinders). All Hondas experience a similar power bump when VTEC kicks in around ~3000 rpm.
.
As for the V6 vs. Hybrid debate:
THE CORRECT STATEMENT: "Accord V6 & Accord Hybrid are equally clean (equal amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants), although the V6 contributes more CO2 to the greenhouse effect."
THE CORRECT STATEMENT: "Accord V6 & Accord Hybrid are equally clean (equal amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants), although the V6 contributes more CO2 to the greenhouse effect."
If this is the "correct" statement, can you please explain how the V6 Accord, which has essentially the same ICE as the HAH, emits EQUAL amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants compared to the HAH, even though over their lifetime (all else being equal), the HAH's ICE will operate fewer hours than the ICE on the V6 Accord, and also the ICE on the HAH will operate on only 3 cylinders (thus burning less fuel, thus emitting less pollutants) during a part of its lifetime? And overall, the HAH will burn less fuel (and therefore emit less pollutants) than the V6 Accord?
Anyone on this board who says a car producing 6.8 tons of GHG is as clean as a car producing 6.0 tons is just either in denial or cannot do simple addition....
Anyone on this board who says a car producing 6.8 tons of GHG is as clean as a car producing 6.0 tons is just either in denial or cannot do simple addition
No denial. Look at the EPA chart. The HAH has lower GHG than 10 of the cars rated Cleaner by the EPA. They are two entirely different ratings. The HAH has good GHG levels. Not so good emissions, the bad stuff spewed into the air. I don't think the EPA made an error on the HAH. It does not reach the AT-PZEV rating. It is not as "clean" as you put it, as the other hybrids including the Escape Hybrid. I doubt it will be eligible for the tax break. Has anyone found where it qualifies?
If you don't think the 6-cylinder HAH is "clean" because it has greater emissions than some 4-cylinder cars, including 4-cylider hybrids, that's your choice. Personally I would not expect a car with a larger, 6-cylinder engine to achieve better emissions than a 4-cylinder engine. That the HAH is the cleanest-running 6-cylinder car on the EPA's charts is a significant accomplishment I think. It would be great if Honda could make the HAH AT-PZEV, and if the RX400h and Highlander Hybrid achieve that designation, that will demonstrate that the technology is there. For now, there are no 6-cylinder PZEV or AT-PZEV vehicles, so the fact that the HAH isn't (AT-)PZEV doesn't say to me that the HAH is "not so good" in emissions, and in fact compared to other 6-cylinder vehicles it is the BEST in emissions.
The Accord Hybrid has two air conditioning compressors: one electric, One belt driven off ICE. Under maximum cooling both run. If the ICE stops and the air conditioning is needed only one compressor runs; can you guess which one?
I would consider the HAH if it had a 6-speed manual shift.
Sadly you are right about this and most of the Edmunds forums. It is more of an agrument of personalities and "I know more than you .." than a sharing of facts.
Also, if you look there are a myriad of dicussion topics most very very narrowly scoped, when much fewer would suffice. But people seem to start brand new topics , so that their discussion will not be "Off Topic".
However, there are actually a lot of facts and good HAH discussion in this thread Out of some 2400 thread entries at least 10% contain some good info.
Hope you find the infromation you need, but many of the more technical people long ago left.
Incidently. The HAH actually has only one A/C compressot but can run both off the drive belt or electricity. I just to a good look at mine after midnightcowboy's post and it one unit. It has a belt on the front and an orange incased (tell-tale sign of the 144 volt electrical system) electrical lead running into it.
Those 10% "good" posts can be pretty valuable, eh? ;-)
Something I heard at my local Honda dealer puzzled me and I'm wondering what others have heard: the sales rep told me that he was sure that he heard his dealership would get six HAHs for the entire year of 2005. They had received two since introduction through the end of January. Now, this is a pretty big dealership in a major metro area (Twin Cities). I don't know their volume but they have lots and lots of Accords sitting on their lot. So I was very surprised to hear they would get only six all year. Of course, the sales rep could be wrong. Until I test drove the HAH with him, he had not yet driven it, and I seemed to know a lot more about the car than he did--thanks to this discussion of course. ;-)
If it is any consolation, Grand Honda here in the Chicago area is offering the AH (non-NAVI) for $28,000 incl. dest. + TTL. Nice price
By comparison, there was a new 05 I4 w/ Auto - EX-L w/ NAVI that went out at $22,200 + TTL yesterday in the same locale. Still about an $8,000 differential but at least it’s not $10 like it was 2 months ago.
I just can't believe a car this expensive and advanced in a technical sense, doesn't offer something so basic as automatic headlights. They have been around for years and are standard on so many cars at this point. Since it's so advanced and expensive to make because of the Hybrid design, this saves money on each unit manufactured I supposed.
I don’t believe in the AH as being a good buy but in terms of not having this or that, do many semi-lux automobiles at < $30K have double wishbone/multi-links on all 4 corners, lit steering wheel entertainment/cruise controls, tilt & telescopic, dual zone auto-climate, heated/power leather seats and ~ $3 - $4K in Hybrid and VCM HW? I still wonder why the AH is missing VSA, BA, and an auto-dimming mirror but then again, the EPA estimates are pretty impressive for a sub 7 second car none the less :-)
True enough. You can however simply leave the headlights on all the time. They will shut off automatically after a minute or so when the key is turned off. I know it's not quite the same but...
I hate automatic headlights. I would rather have some control over when I want them. When I need the "automatic" feature, I just leave them on (that would make it 99% of the time in 7.5 years/115K miles of ownership of the 1998 Accord). It turns off in 15 seconds after ignition key is removed and the doors are closed.
this really depends on the actual fuel mileage of the vehicles. agree?
In some ways, yes. But, not necessarily. However, if it did, completely, most drivers are reporting mileage from Accord Hybrid that beats Accord I-4 (much less, Accord V6).
quote explorerx4-"this really depends on the actual fuel mileage of the vehicles. agree?"-end quote
Those figures are based on "equal miles per car" meaning the same baseline.
So YES, if you drive an I4 Accord for xxx fewer number of miles, it will have less GHG emissions. Same with any car though....Gotta compare "apples to apples" you know....
Just keep in mind if you park your car in the garage and happen to like to leave the keys in the ignition, they won't shut off. I learned the hard way that GM is one up on the imports on this note. Never had an issue but did this on a Friday night only to come out the next day to find a dead battery.
"True enough. You can however simply leave the headlights on all the time. They will shut off automatically after a minute or so when the key is turned off. I know it's not quite the same but... "
0-60 miles in 6.5 seconds, 255 HP, 232 ft-lbs. It accelerates and runs quietly like a young powerful cheetah. Price's a bit over $35 with Navi. incld. TTL (8.75% sales tax). Price's a bit cheaper now.
"Anyone on this board who says a car producing 6.8 tons of GHG is as clean as a car producing 6.0 tons is just either in denial or cannot do simple addition.... " - LARS
.
Therefore LARS thinks the EPA and the CARB is stupid, ecause neither organization lists CO2 as a "pollutant".
Lars thinks he's smarter than hundreds of EPA/CARB scientists.
THE CORRECT STATEMENT: "Accord V6 & Accord Hybrid are equally clean (equal amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants), although the V6 contributes more CO2 to the greenhouse effect."
If this is the "correct" statement, can you please explain how the V6 Accord, which has essentially the same ICE as the HAH, emits EQUAL amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants compared to the HAH, even though over their lifetime (all else being equal), the HAH's ICE will operate fewer hours than the ICE on the V6 Accord, and also the ICE on the HAH will operate on only 3 cylinders (thus burning less fuel, thus emitting less pollutants) during a part of its lifetime? And overall, the HAH will burn less fuel (and therefore emit less pollutants) than the V6 Accord?
==============================================
I Don't Know.
The answers you seek are at epa.gov or fueleconomy.gov. ASK THEM, not me, because they are the ones who list the V6 Accord & Hybird Accord as equal in Smog Pollutants:
CALIFORNIA (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
That's the official word on the matter. And it matches my statement at the top. It's not open to debate, unless you work for the EPA or CARB, and can point out the flaw.
There are numerous known flaws within the EPAs baseline procedures, not the least of which is how they approach hybrids. They test hybrids with the same "standardized" test for non hybrids. if you do a brief search you can find a wealth of information showing that EPA figures are nothing more than "a very loose relationship of numbers." Their intent is to provide very basic data for modeling not for real world comparisons. While I believe the EPA has done a good job overall to help both awarness of polluting vehicles and reduction of their emissions through compliance of automakers, their numbers are not meant for apples to oranges comparisons. Here's a good example:
I'd also like to point out that my Accord Hybrid came with EPA ULEV stickers on it. Neither the Accord V6 nor the I4 have those. Must mean something, right?
Comments
kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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After reading their description of this test and how the results are achieved I must point something out. These test check standard emisions from a running engine (on all cylinders). Much of the time the Hybrid is only running on half of the cylinders and is not running at all at stops and in stop and go traffic.
Does the engine stop if the AC is running in the summer or the defrost in the winter?
"Does the engine stop if the AC is running in the summer or the defrost in the winter?"
I am not quite sure about the defrost but the A/C runs on the battery when all 6 engines are shut off completely at stop lights.
Woah, 6 engines, no wonder some people aren't getting the EPA mileage...
This thread is about the HAH right? As someone who came here initially to find others who share the same interest, it seems to me this thread has become less about the Accord and more about adds, mileage and epa bickering. I started off here feeling excited and wanting to share. Now every time I read the latest, my brow furrows and I feel like I am on defense. Why should I feel like I have to defend my purchase every time I log in here? Sure it's expensive. Sure there are other options. I bought this car because I like it not because I'm single handedly saving the planet nor because I'm going to get rich off the fuel savings. I just like the car! This forum..not so much anymore...
If there are those of you still interested in discussing the CAR, other forums do exist. I mean no offense to those running or moderating this forum but, sheeeesh!
So long and thanks for all the fish...
AZHAH.
Yes it is, and YOUR input is vital. You gave the answer I was interested in. I may not want an HAH, but am interested in the technology. If they decided to hybridize the ODY I may consider it. I was interested enough to go sit in an HAH. Drifting off into other areas is not all bad. I think that most of the debate on the HAH is the statement it makes and whether it is the correct statement.
If I recall correctly you are over 60 years old and get no more little kids. It's about time for you to get a Hybrid sport car like the HAH, not a big and slow (hybrid) Ody. You deserve a fast car to enjoy yourself now. My 'over-hill" in-law just bought a two-seater sport Mercedes Benz with no navi. and he rarely drives it. He just covers it real carefully and parks it in the garage at all time to keep its gorgeous burgundy color more and more shiny. It is so expensive to him to drive it around. Poor little guy !
You are a guy that would be hard not to like. I go through stages of wanting a sports car. We need two cars now. One for our home in Hawaii and one to travel the USA. Fuel in Hawaii is very expensive so that was one of the reasons I looked into the hybrids. I can get B100 biodiesel in Hawaii so the diesels are also an option. Truthfully your description of the HAH NAV was why I went to look at Honda's. The HAH is too small for cross country travel. We could probably get by with the Odyssey EX-L with NAV. It is a decent vehicle. I have read poster's that did not think the ride was as good as the Sienna. So there you have my situation. Sounds like you are real happy with the HAH and that is great.
Please don't leave! Seriously. You are absolutely correct that there is way too much noise on this forum. But the more sane people leave, the more noise.
And you are also correct that people have to spend way too much time defending their consciencious decision to (1) use less gas, and (2) spew less pollutants. And (3) have a car they like.
What you said needed saying. It's exactly what many of us have been feeling for quite a while.
I also get frustrated defending my car and did not log on for a couple of weeks. But decided I would miss to much valuable information from people like yourself not to participate. I now dismiss the HAH bashing as I believe it is brought on by either misinformed people, people that just like to bring others down and by people jealous of us. I have decided they are not going to rain on my parade.
I'm like you, I love my car and do not have to defend my investment to anyone especially to people that don't own one or have never even sat in one. I speak from experience and don't make up stats as I go to start something.
I plan on continuing to report the good and the bad as I add miles to my beauty and ignore the cesspool of disgust some people bring to this forum.
You bring alot to this table and I enjoy reading your comments and opinions.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/columnists/ch- i-0502060347feb06,1,3145784.column
I agree. I want a PU or station wagon. If Honda built a Civic wagon hybrid I would give it serious consideration. If they built a HAH wagon with a 4 cylinder it would be considered.
I agree with all of your comments! I, too, stay away from here, hoping that when I sneak back it will be better. But it seems to be the same depressives and obsessives, trying to "kill a little time," as they say.
If any of you can express in words the driving experience of the HAH, I'm all ears.......
PS not even smart enough to quote the EPA figures
1st) Gagrice I did not mean to reply to you and then spew forth. I was NOT directing this at you or anyone else for that matter. I should have been clearer on that and to you I apologize specifically!
2nd) While I can’t in good conscience take back what I said as my feelings really haven’t changed, I do recognize that forums are the way they are. I have had an overall good experience here. Last night I was in a bad mood and I inadvertently let it reflect in my post. For that I apologize to the rest of you!
3rd) I want to thank those of you who posted such kind remarks to my post. It was very humbling and I confess I might not have been so kind. I think I came off like a big baby and for that I apologize to myself!
Now, Back to our regularly scheduled forum.
I must admit that the while my HAH transitions seamlessly most of the time it does have its moments. There are several “transitional” states and I’m not sure where the “bumps” occurs but it does “bump” occasionally. I think it happens most often, though certainly not every time (10% ?), when in ECO with some IMA being applied and then goes to full 6 cylinder operation. When this happens I will feel a “bump” somewhat like a hard tranny shift while hitting a small pothole in the road. It may happen in other times but since I try to avoid watching my instrument cluster constantly while driving I’m not completely sure. This is the kind of thin that will probably be corrected in later models. It is by no means bad nor would I have not bought the car had I known. I just feel it is important to mention the negatives when I find some.
To be clear, here are some of the transitional states I can think of:
ECO (3 Cylinder mode) to NORM (6 cylinder mode)
ECO to ECO w/IMA Charge (and opposite)
ECO to ECO w/IMA Power (and opposite)
NORM to NORM w/IMA Charge (and opposite)
NORM to NORM w/IMA Power (and opposite)
ECO w/IMA Power to NORM (Bumps occasionally)
ECO w/IMA Power to NORM w/IMA Power
NORM w/IMA Charge to ECO
NORM w/IMA Power to ECO (May bump occasionally)
You get the idea
Cheers and thanks for you understanding.
AZHAH (AKA AZcrab) 
.
As for the V6 vs. Hybrid debate:
THE CORRECT STATEMENT: "Accord V6 & Accord Hybrid are equally clean (equal amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants), although the V6 contributes more CO2 to the greenhouse effect."
troy
If this is the "correct" statement, can you please explain how the V6 Accord, which has essentially the same ICE as the HAH, emits EQUAL amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants compared to the HAH, even though over their lifetime (all else being equal), the HAH's ICE will operate fewer hours than the ICE on the V6 Accord, and also the ICE on the HAH will operate on only 3 cylinders (thus burning less fuel, thus emitting less pollutants) during a part of its lifetime? And overall, the HAH will burn less fuel (and therefore emit less pollutants) than the V6 Accord?
No denial. Look at the EPA chart. The HAH has lower GHG than 10 of the cars rated Cleaner by the EPA. They are two entirely different ratings. The HAH has good GHG levels. Not so good emissions, the bad stuff spewed into the air. I don't think the EPA made an error on the HAH. It does not reach the AT-PZEV rating. It is not as "clean" as you put it, as the other hybrids including the Escape Hybrid. I doubt it will be eligible for the tax break. Has anyone found where it qualifies?
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/midcar-05.htm
CALIFORNIA
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
Those appear to be equally clean, right? WRONG !
Tons of GHG emitted per annum:
Accord V6 = 7.8 tons
Accord Hybrid = 6.0 tons
Accord 4 cylinder = 7.0 tons
So in NO FASHION is the V6 Accord as clean as the Accord Hybrid, or even the smaller engine 4 cyl Accord !! No way Dudes !!!
I would consider the HAH if it had a 6-speed manual shift.
Thanks,
MidCow
Sadly you are right about this and most of the Edmunds forums. It is more of an agrument of personalities and "I know more than you .." than a sharing of facts.
Also, if you look there are a myriad of dicussion topics most very very narrowly scoped, when much fewer would suffice. But people seem to start brand new topics , so that their discussion will not be "Off Topic".
However, there are actually a lot of facts and good HAH discussion in this thread Out of some 2400 thread entries at least 10% contain some good info.
Hope you find the infromation you need, but many of the more technical people long ago left.
Thanks,
MidCow
http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=100511&d=815- &h=817&f=816&dateformat=%25B%20%25e,%20%25Y
Incidently. The HAH actually has only one A/C compressot but can run both off the drive belt or electricity. I just to a good look at mine after midnightcowboy's post and it one unit. It has a belt on the front and an orange incased (tell-tale sign of the 144 volt electrical system) electrical lead running into it.
Something I heard at my local Honda dealer puzzled me and I'm wondering what others have heard: the sales rep told me that he was sure that he heard his dealership would get six HAHs for the entire year of 2005. They had received two since introduction through the end of January. Now, this is a pretty big dealership in a major metro area (Twin Cities). I don't know their volume but they have lots and lots of Accords sitting on their lot. So I was very surprised to hear they would get only six all year. Of course, the sales rep could be wrong. Until I test drove the HAH with him, he had not yet driven it, and I seemed to know a lot more about the car than he did--thanks to this discussion of course. ;-)
If it is any consolation, Grand Honda here in the Chicago area is offering the AH (non-NAVI) for $28,000 incl. dest. + TTL. Nice price
By comparison, there was a new 05 I4 w/ Auto - EX-L w/ NAVI that went out at $22,200 + TTL yesterday in the same locale. Still about an $8,000 differential but at least it’s not $10 like it was 2 months ago.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I don’t believe in the AH as being a good buy but in terms of not having this or that, do many semi-lux automobiles at < $30K have double wishbone/multi-links on all 4 corners, lit steering wheel entertainment/cruise controls, tilt & telescopic, dual zone auto-climate, heated/power leather seats and ~ $3 - $4K in Hybrid and VCM HW? I still wonder why the AH is missing VSA, BA, and an auto-dimming mirror but then again, the EPA estimates are pretty impressive for a sub 7 second car none the less :-)
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
CALIFORNIA
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
Those appear to be equally clean, right? WRONG !
Tons of GHG emitted per annum:
Accord V6 = 7.8 tons
Accord Hybrid = 6.0 tons
Accord 4 cylinder = 7.0 tons
So in NO FASHION is the V6 Accord as clean as the Accord Hybrid, or even the smaller engine 4 cyl Accord !! No way Dudes !!!
this really depends on the actual fuel mileage of the vehicles. agree?
In some ways, yes. But, not necessarily. However, if it did, completely, most drivers are reporting mileage from Accord Hybrid that beats Accord I-4 (much less, Accord V6).
Those figures are based on "equal miles per car" meaning the same baseline.
So YES, if you drive an I4 Accord for xxx fewer number of miles, it will have less GHG emissions. Same with any car though....Gotta compare "apples to apples" you know....
"True enough. You can however simply leave the headlights on all the time. They will shut off automatically after a minute or so when the key is turned off. I know it's not quite the same but... "
I'm a late-comer to researching the HAH.
Just read some reviews that it goes 0-60 in 7.5 to 8 seconds, produces 255HP and about 232ft-lbs of torque.
All this speed & power and some are getting over 30MPG? In a near luxury car for under $30K?
This is nothing short of fantastic!
Looks like this might be a good replacement in a few years for our Grand Caravan pig. (16-20MPG)
Hyundai Sonata (2.4/I-4): 22/30 mpg; 7.7 tons (GHG).
Chrysler Sebring (2.4/I-4): 22/30 mpg; 7.6 tons (GHG)
Pontiac Grand AM (3.4/V6): 20/29 mpg; 7.6 tons (GHG)
Close, but between Sonata and Grand AM, you should expect the Pontiac to emit 7-8% more GHG whereas it emits less.
.
Therefore LARS thinks the EPA and the CARB is stupid, ecause neither organization lists CO2 as a "pollutant".
Lars thinks he's smarter than hundreds of EPA/CARB scientists.
Talk about ego-maniac!
troy
More GHG emissions = BAD
Due to impact on global warming.
That's not intelligence, it's common sense. Even the village idiots know that..:)
Troy, if you are saying that "more GHG emissions does NOT mean additional contributions to global warming" then you are perhaps misinformed....
If this is the "correct" statement, can you please explain how the V6 Accord, which has essentially the same ICE as the HAH, emits EQUAL amounts of NOx/HC/CO pollutants compared to the HAH, even though over their lifetime (all else being equal), the HAH's ICE will operate fewer hours than the ICE on the V6 Accord, and also the ICE on the HAH will operate on only 3 cylinders (thus burning less fuel, thus emitting less pollutants) during a part of its lifetime? And overall, the HAH will burn less fuel (and therefore emit less pollutants) than the V6 Accord?
==============================================
I Don't Know.
The answers you seek are at epa.gov or fueleconomy.gov. ASK THEM, not me, because they are the ones who list the V6 Accord & Hybird Accord as equal in Smog Pollutants:
CALIFORNIA (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
That's the official word on the matter. And it matches my statement at the top. It's not open to debate, unless you work for the EPA or CARB, and can point out the flaw.
troy
There are numerous known flaws within the EPAs baseline procedures, not the least of which is how they approach hybrids. They test hybrids with the same "standardized" test for non hybrids. if you do a brief search you can find a wealth of information showing that EPA figures are nothing more than "a very loose relationship of numbers." Their intent is to provide very basic data for modeling not for real world comparisons. While I believe the EPA has done a good job overall to help both awarness of polluting vehicles and reduction of their emissions through compliance of automakers, their numbers are not meant for apples to oranges comparisons. Here's a good example:
(Check out the "flawed testing" section)
http://www.ase.org/imgs/lib/e-FFICIENCY/EPA_testing.pdf
I'd also like to point out that my Accord Hybrid came with EPA ULEV stickers on it. Neither the Accord V6 nor the I4 have those. Must mean something, right?
Still, we have nothing else to go by except the EPA/CARB results, and those results show:
CALIFORNIA (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
troy
V6 Accord = 7
Accord Hybrid=7
45-STATE SCORE
V6 Accord = 6
Accord Hybrid=6
Those appear to be equally clean, right? WRONG !
Tons of GHG emitted per annum:
Accord V6 = 7.8 tons
Accord Hybrid = 6.0 tons
Accord 4 cylinder = 7.0 tons
So in NO FASHION is the V6 Accord as clean as the Accord Hybrid, or even the smaller engine 4 cyl Accord !! No way Dudes !!!