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Toyota Tundra VS Ford F-150
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You are correct. I like my Silverado, even with just three doors. I am just sick of hearing it ping. I know it is not a tragic thing, but when you pay as much for a truck as these things cost, I can't stand to have anything like this going on with it. I am not talking about an occasional ping under load, etc. This thing, at least until I switched to a colder plug, pinged all the time, even on straight level planes. I have cured most all the ping with a colder firing plug, but not all of it completely. I did not notice any ping today, so maybe when I re-gapped the plugs, I got something on the electrodes. I wiped them off with a shop towel that may have had some oil on it that I didn't realize. It wouldn't take much oil to cause a rough engine.
I am also considering an autotap, which will give me the info on all the emission and ignition related stuff. Maybe that will turn up something else to go on.
I really like my Silverado, and financially, it would be best for me to keep it and not have to trade it for anything else. But I am really growing tired of diagnosing a brand new truck, simply because GM won't!
Please don't take my post as a slam on GM or their trucks. I can only blame myself for buying a first year model truck. I should have known better. Now I am paying the price. I just wish GM would help me out to make things right.
I don't think you will have to worry about piston slap in the 5.4, they are however a bit noisier then the vortechs, so maybe that was what you were hearing.
Hope it all works out for you.
You have to admit one thing, the Big 3 REALLY have serious issues with making blatantly crappy brakes.
Toyota makes a great brake.
I remember when Ford used to use the Ford Escort brakes on its vans and full size picupks. Folks were having all kinds of problems with warped rotors, brakes lasting 8k miles, ect.
Last year Chevy came out with 4 wheel disc Dual piston brakes. every trade rag and every testimonial around here say the new GM brakes outperform everything, loaded or unloaded.
dbhull
Have you confirmed that the ping really IS a problem. I still think that its normal for the Vortecs. Mine doesn't do it, but gasoline varies ALOT from region to region. Is it REALLY loud, or just noticeable?
I don't think you will sacrifice any engine life by keeping your truck.
There are too many owners complaining for everyone to just be picky about the noise. It is a problem. Actually, until I bought this GM truck, I never heard of ANY ping being normal. To me, that is GM just covering their butts. Any detonation will reduce engine longevity. Nobody can convince me otherwise. The pure nature of what causes the noise (combustion that opposes piston travel) is enough to know that it can and will decrease engine life, even if it is only a minute amount.
Is it a drastic thing, no, not yet. The longer I own it with it pinging, the worse the ping will get. Detonation only grows worse with use, not better or remain the same. That is what I fear. If nothing else, it will deter an unknowing buyer from purchasing the truck if I go to sell it, which is a reduction in the trucks value.
Don't get me wrong, I love the truck and would buy another GM truck. Is that blind loyalty? No, I don't think so. This could be happening in any truck, not just GM. Do I think that GM could be doing a better job of addressing the problem? Absolutely.
I have failed to mention that GM has compensated me to an extent. They gave me a 6 year 60k bumper to bumper, no deduct warranty. That helps take the sting out of this and what has kept me from totally dissing GM, but I still have an abnormal ping that I now have to live with and it is a basically brand new truck. This was not a mild and occasional ping. Very annoying if nothing else. When you buy a brand new vehicle, you do so, so you don't have to deal with these types of things. It happens in all makes though.
BTW: I think GM now easily reigns on the area of brakes. Top notch if you ask me. My brakes have been very impressive in panic stops and have given me virtually no problems.
Ford has discs on all corners, and they throw in the ABS for free. Just stomp on that pedal and you'll quickly learn the meaning of "breaking power."
I've heard people justify not having ABS in their Tundras by saying, "I don't want it anyway." But once you learn how to use ABS (stomp and stop!), there's no going back.
For serious off-roading, ABS is more of a liability. Sometimes it's better to be able to lock 'em up and start pushing dirt/mud/snow around. Gives you more control in the deep stuff....
As for trucks not made for serious off-roading, that's a matter of opinion. I got my Tundra through snow drifts that claimed a Nissan 4x4 and a Chevy Blazer 4x4 in the Cascades this winter.
Some may say anything short of a humvee isn't capable off serious off-roading. Personally I could care less. I'm not into that category of off-roading.
The autotap will let you monitor this condition, under the variable "knock retard," which is what the F-body racers are trying to get rid of for more hp. In your case, you want more of it to kill the ping. Some guys put a resistor in series with the knock sensors (microphones under the intake manifold) to reduce knock retard. The other option is to amplify it, but there may be a limit beyond which you don't get more knock retard.
I actually bought another set of plugs (TR55's). They are the same heat range of plug as the oem plugs only they are copper core. They come gapped at .060 like the stock Silverado plugs do. I put a set in gapped at about .052 and so far, no ping whatsoever. I am going to run them a while in varied temps and loads to make sure before calling it fixed. I was still getting a slight bit of ping on the TR6 plugs and I noticed it was really sucking the gas, so I decided to give the TR55 plugs a try. What is another $16 bucks, huh?
If this doesn't rectify it, and only time will tell, I will go for the autotap to better diagnose. If nothing else, I can take the print out to the dealer as verification of a problem, if I find one.
I will keep you informed.
Dan
So, on Sunday, with the wind down to about 15 mph we decided to tow the sucker from Las Vegas, Nv to Mesquite, Nv and spend the night in a casino's RV lot (I put on 50 gallons of water). I locked out the overdrive and the Tundra pulled the trailer very well. Drove 65 MPH at 2,900 RPM in 3rd gear. Everything went just fine except the gas mileage. Only got 10 MPG. This trip was into the wind and the elevation increases about 1,000 feet in the 79 miles. So, it was slightly uphill. I gave the Tundra a grade of B on this trip.
Today I drove the rig back to Las Vegas. No wind and slightly downhill. Again, I locked out the OD and drove 60 - 65 MPH. 79 miles and only took 6 gallons of gas. 13 MPG on the return trip. But I had no wind to contend with and I was 25 gallons of water lighter (that's about 210 pounds). I gave it a B+.
So, if you are satisfied with pulling 6,500 pounds at 65 MPH, the Tundra definately will work for you. However, if you live in Colorado and will be pulling in the Rockies, you'll need more power.
DHS
Can the Tundra pull in O/D? I know the highway geared Ford and GM's say not to pull in O/D.
DHS
As far as our dealer making a deal, we were able to negotiate a sizable discount from the sticker and pay a few hundred over invoice and get the exact package that we wanted. Buying at the end of the month helps, because they are trying to make their quota and are a tad more flexible. This is true at most any dealer, Ford, Toyota, etc. So if you have time while shopping, wait till the end of a month, or even till a Sunday night when they want to just make a deal and go home after a hectic weekend.
As far as quality: sure it is a new vehicle, but from a manufacturer with a extremely strong reputation for reliability, so it is a pretty safe bet. I don't see a major manufacturer willing to risk their reputation by putting a substandard quality product into such a highly visible (and profitable) market segment. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I believe that the added competition into this market sector will benefit future buyers of Fords, Toyotas, Dodges, and GM's. This steps up the choices for the consumers, so all the manufacturers improve their products to meet higher consumer expectations. Guess what, whether you love or hate the Tundra, we all win!!!!
P.S. Don't buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Major Lemon.
With the V6, I have seen between 15 and 16 while towing. I should have a better figure after I go to the beach this weekend.
DHS
At this point I was down to 26,900 (before TTL and doc handling fee) for a V8 the Off road package and a few other inexpensive options.
I gave up, went to a Ford dealer (Autoland), priced out exactly the Ford I wanted, said "here is what I want, here is my calculated invoice, I'll give you that plus 500." He punched it up and ended up with an invoice $60 lower. It was so painless I didn't mind paying the 179 documentation fee (minus the $60 for his lower invoice). By ordering the manual transmission I saved another 1300-1400 dollars and with the $500 factory rebate, I ended up paying 23,500 (plus TTL and 179 documentation fee) with a few more options than I was getting with the Toyota (but with an auto trans) at 26,900. It was a "no-haggle" dealership, but I might have been able to get him down another 100 or 200 (I didn't bother trying).
Did you get the 4.6L (Or whatever midengine size it is) with the manual transmission? That's exactly what I wanted if it is.
How do you like it?
Mcdonalds is running 2 cheeseburgers for $1 in our area. I wonder if Ford may run a 2 for 1 deal sometime soon.
I like the F-150.
oki
GM would be the Burger King Whopper
Dodge would be a Wendy's burger
Toyota would be ???
Does any body know who the #4 burger chain is?
Sonic? Jack in the Box? Hardee's? Oh I know it must be White Castle they make those real small burgers.
What the heck someone has to be #4 it may as well be the Toyota.
For a manual tranny it listed about 3200 lbs,
with an automatic, it was like 6500?
Is this true about manual trannies don't tow as much.. if so WHY???
I wanted a manual.
PROS:
1. Jacked up ride height (Feel like your above everyone else on the road)
2. I liked the looks of the Flareside a little better than the Tundra.
3. You get a 5.4L 260 HP engine in a BIGGER truck with slightly better MPG (How do they do it?)
4. Bigger interior room especially the backseat. It was more comfy in the back and the carseat could actually fit for my baby.
CONS:
1. The interior dash board area seems kinda "Cheap" when compared to the stylish Tundra's (Just my opinion)
2. The engine was not NEARLY as smooth as the Tundra's. The shifts were completely different, although power felt very similar.
3. The truck sounds like I am driving the U-Haul that I used when I moved in to this house. It doesn't have a deep throaty sound like I thought it would have, but more of a American car-like humm.
I liked the F-150 quite a bit overall. The only thing I really didn't like was the engine feel. Although nice and powerful, it just didn't feel give me the feel I would of expected. I really like the jacked up look, and overall looks.
I'll post my tunda impressions in the next post.
PROS:
1. It's about 3/4 size of the Ford, and it felt much more maneuverable.
2. The engine sounds much better than the Ford. It's got a deeper, throatier sound and was just as quick.
3. The transmission that was mated with the 4.7 shifted SO much nicer and was SO much smoother than the Ford.
4. The interior dashboard area was much more appealing to me than the Ford.
CONS:
1. Biggest complaint was I had a hell of a time getting the carseat in the back. With the bolt upright position of the backseat, I could only get the child seat to fit in the middle (Anyone else have this problem)
2. The backseat was small compared to the F-150's, although the upright position was not quite as bad as it looked when riding in the back.
3. The truck would need a 4" lift to compete with the height of the F-150.
4. I thought the Tundra was not quite as appealing in terms of looks to the F-150.
Overall I really like the Tundra as well. It felt like a luxury car, but again the child seat in back is going to be a problem. They need to angle the backseat a bit.
Pricing was about the same for the Ford I was looking at and the Tundra. I didn't notice any pricing difference, although the Flareside would cost a bit more.
I am still stuck even after testdriving them which one I want. If the Tundra had a bigger backseat I think it would be obvious to me, but we'll see.
Have faith in fellow American's in Missouri and Kentucky, they are building top quality trucks that are every bit as reliable as any Toyota.
I have a 81 Chevy C10, made in Fremont, California, with 326,000 on it with the Stock tranny that has never been rebuilt and the second motor that was replaced at 290,000. It has been used to tow, as a family truck, tree service truck, etc.
I know there was a big difference in power with my Silverado 5.3l w/3:73 and the F150 5.4l with 3:55. My Silverado would leave it in a dust cloud. I have not driven the 5.4l with 3:73 gear yet. Mainly because you can't find one on the lots. They order most of the trucks with a 3:55 gear. The ones they do order with 3:73 go quick. Most people seem to have to order one if they want 3:73 with the 5.4l F150.
Another question. This can just be anyones perception or educated answer. Why does Ford not offer a 4:10 gear in the F150? I would think that a 4:10 gear in the F150 with 5.4l would pretty much rule the roost in 1/2 ton truck power.
My perception is that the 5.4l has less umph than the 5.3l, but the 5.3l loses more of its power through the drivetrain than the 5.4l Ford does.
Any comments?
I am still considering an F150 Supercab 4X4. Came close, but got cold feet before sighning the papers. Still looking to trade for one though. Anyones input is appreciated.
I like my Silverado and would most likely buy another one in the future when the bugs are worked out of them. I have just lost some confidence in some nitpicky quality issues.
Thanks.
Dan.
This is per Motor Trend pickup shootout - May 2000
More Room
More Engine Power
More Payload Capacity
More Towing Capacity
Actually Made for work
Engine was designed for a truck, unlike the Tundra with a lexus engine
Made by Union Members!
I think the 5.4l with 3:55 had good pull, but nothing compared to my 5.3l with 3:73. I do think that if you put a 3:55 with the 5.3l, the 5.4l with the same 3:55 would have more pull. What I am trying to determine here is this....Is there a configuration in the F150 line, i.e. engine, transmission, and rear diff that will give me the same pull power as my Silverado with 5.3l and 3:73 gear. I am pretty impressed with my Silverados pulling power and do not want to go backwards from that. Ford doesn't offer a 4:10 gear and I am suspecting just from my seat o the pants meter, that the Ford needs a lower gear diff to match the Silverados pull power. I know the die hard Ford fans will probably not agree with that statement, but this is my perception from driving both.
Where do you find the ET times, etc. of each to use in the formulas you provided?
Thanks.
Dan.
Thanks.
In a Truck Trend comparison from 02/99, the 5.4L had more hp and torque than the 5.3L at the rear wheels. Chevy peak hp = 182, Ford peak hp = 207. If you plug these rear wheel numbers into the equations, you get 1/4 mile ET's about equal to what the magazine testers measured. The Ford was quicker in the Truck Trend test. This may have changed for 2000. A more recent test of 2000 models had the Chevy faster than Ford. Personally, I don't buy the notion that all the horsepower (on either) is lost through the drivetrain. If it was, the lost hp must be converted to heat, and the drivetrain simply doesn't get that hot.
>>>I think the 5.4l with 3:55 had good pull, but nothing compared to my 5.3l with 3:73. I do think that if you put a 3:55 with the 5.3l, the 5.4l with the same 3:55 would have more pull.<<<
I think "pull" is a very good way to describe the effect of rear axle ratios, and agree with you here.
>>>What I am trying to determine here is this....Is there a configuration in the F150 line, i.e. engine, transmission, and rear diff that will give me the same pull power as my Silverado with 5.3l and 3:73 gear.<<<
This I don't know. But the seat of the pants "pull" is also affected by the other ratios of the particular gear you are in. If for example, 3rd gear is the same for both trucks, then the difference you feel would be the difference in rear axles gears. But if the rear axle was up by 10%, and 3rd was down by 10%, you have a zero sum gain.
>>>Where do you find the ET times, etc. of each to use in the formulas you provided?<<<
Usually, you are using the equations to solve for ET when hp and weight are known. But if you know weight and ET, you can use the equation to solve for hp also.
Bottom line, the trucks are close enough that seat of the pants impressions are as good as working through these numbers. I don't think the numbers make a definitive case in favor of either.
Sorry about the long post.
Besides the fact that I find the Chevy not as appealing in terms of looks, I didn't bother test driving that or the Dodge because of the horrible reviews. I don't want to spend 30K on something that breaks down alot. I looked at the Dakota Quad Cab, and it is pretty nice in 4x4 form, although the 2WD sits up about as high as a car. Again the reliability scares me away.
I've heard issues about the F-150's 5.4 reliability problem, too. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN FIXED??
I would sure like to know since I like the F-150 the best. However, I haven't tested the 4.6L.
Have you had exprience with the 4.6 rooster?
I also, for what it's worth, am going to look at even the Tacoma Double Cab when it comes out unless I buy sooner. I have a wide open mind and prefer Japanese vehicles because of reliability issues, but the Ford F-150 just seems so nice.
Let me know any suggestions you have.