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Dealer Dis-Service Horror Stories
solaraman2003
Member Posts: 92
in General
I recently had the most horrific experience I have ever had with regard to automobile repair.
I'll try to make this posting as quick and to the point as possible.
I went to the Toyota dealer where I purchased my 2003 Solara SLEv6 almost a year ago. This is
my first time owning a NEW vehicle and so I'm being extra careful in the early years and am
willing to pay the extra bucks to go to the dealer for maintenance. I know a lot about cars and
repairs and I have relatives/friends that are just as smart as the pros. I've been going to them for the
routine oil changes and tire rotations since I bought the car.
I went in for this dealerships own 15k service and I nearly fell on the floor when first told the cost
was going to be $285, but I was even willing to swallow it. The service included: oil/filter, check/service
battery, top off fluids, air filter, check wipers, etc.
The day after, I discovered that:
1) There were still remains of leaves inside the air filter canister.
2) Several battery cells were very low on water.
3) They never said or did anything about the passenger wiper blade which was obviously in need of
replacement.
4) Cooling system overflow was (still) closer to the MIN mark, as opposed to MAX mark.
5) Brake fluid container was also (still) closer to the MIN mark.
6) Windshield washer fluid container was nowhere near full.
When I went back to the dealer I learned that the mechanic had been working there for several years. I suggested
they fire him.
The service manager of the dealership really acted very calm about this whole thing. He didn't seem very
apologetic or concerned at all. He didn't indicated to me that any steps would be taken to prevent this
from happening again, or that he would take any steps to find out WHY this happened to beging with.
He gave me a fraction of the money back, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable going back there. How do I really
know that ANY of the items/checks on their list were done at all ? How do I know they even changed the oil.
I'm going to try another dealership near me and hope for the best.
I was thinking of writing to the OWNER of the dealership OR the President of TOYOTA, but I'm not sure I want
any more aggravation. There is a part of me, though, that is so infuriated by this, and now that I've
remembered this website, I've decided to post this and see if anyone else has any ideas as to what other options
I might have and/or find out if other's have had any horrific experiences with DEALER (dis)service.
Is this typical of DEALER SERVICE ? Have you experienced anything as horrific as this ?
I'll try to make this posting as quick and to the point as possible.
I went to the Toyota dealer where I purchased my 2003 Solara SLEv6 almost a year ago. This is
my first time owning a NEW vehicle and so I'm being extra careful in the early years and am
willing to pay the extra bucks to go to the dealer for maintenance. I know a lot about cars and
repairs and I have relatives/friends that are just as smart as the pros. I've been going to them for the
routine oil changes and tire rotations since I bought the car.
I went in for this dealerships own 15k service and I nearly fell on the floor when first told the cost
was going to be $285, but I was even willing to swallow it. The service included: oil/filter, check/service
battery, top off fluids, air filter, check wipers, etc.
The day after, I discovered that:
1) There were still remains of leaves inside the air filter canister.
2) Several battery cells were very low on water.
3) They never said or did anything about the passenger wiper blade which was obviously in need of
replacement.
4) Cooling system overflow was (still) closer to the MIN mark, as opposed to MAX mark.
5) Brake fluid container was also (still) closer to the MIN mark.
6) Windshield washer fluid container was nowhere near full.
When I went back to the dealer I learned that the mechanic had been working there for several years. I suggested
they fire him.
The service manager of the dealership really acted very calm about this whole thing. He didn't seem very
apologetic or concerned at all. He didn't indicated to me that any steps would be taken to prevent this
from happening again, or that he would take any steps to find out WHY this happened to beging with.
He gave me a fraction of the money back, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable going back there. How do I really
know that ANY of the items/checks on their list were done at all ? How do I know they even changed the oil.
I'm going to try another dealership near me and hope for the best.
I was thinking of writing to the OWNER of the dealership OR the President of TOYOTA, but I'm not sure I want
any more aggravation. There is a part of me, though, that is so infuriated by this, and now that I've
remembered this website, I've decided to post this and see if anyone else has any ideas as to what other options
I might have and/or find out if other's have had any horrific experiences with DEALER (dis)service.
Is this typical of DEALER SERVICE ? Have you experienced anything as horrific as this ?
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Comments
As far as how you can know if they actually changed the oil, you can tell by the color if they changed at least most of it. As for the filter, you can mark it in some way, scratch your initials in the case or such, before taking the vehicle in for service. Then your after service inspection will quickly show whether the filter has been changed. I know a guy who takes the filter that he wants installed to the service appt., and takes a different brand of filter each time. Makes it easy to see whether the purchased work actually got done.
bought the car out of state (my pontiac dropped tranny while on a trip!). only one trip to local dealer and so far so good.
AAA always likes to know about bad people as does the better business bureau. ASE (whatever that is) certifies mechanics. A note to them might help. if you want to make trouble, there are agencies out there to help. may not get your money back, but will definitely make dealers life miserable. state's attorney general's office? most have a website with complaint forms? if they are doing a half-a..ed job of repairs, maybe they do a half-a..ed job of state inspections?! your motor vehicle office should know about this, right?
otherwise, move on if possible to another dealer. two dealers i know of in pittsburgh, pa and rochester, ny have excellent track records.
good luck
Your complaints and their causes are really the responsibility of management. If a mechanic at my friends' dealership did sloppy work like that, he'd have his eyebrows torn off and the service manager would spend a very unpleasant hour in the owner's office. Customer is King. Yet just down the street is a dealership that is so bad everyone makes jokes about it up and down auto row. They just roll their eyes when they hear the newest horror story.
How can you know this first time you go to a dealership? Well you can't unless you've somehow checked their reputation.
I'd agree. Call Toyota and file a complaint but I wouldn't go back there. Having two people drop the ball on you does not sound encouraging. If it was just one mechanic having a bad day and the service manager jumped in and rectified it, I'd give them another try for sure. But this sounds pretty un-fixable without some drastic intervention.
I suppose there's no harm in writing to the owner. If he calls you and makes the whole thing right, I'd be impressed. Do not hold the proverbial breath however.
The dealers that I've spoken with will require that I sign an Arbitration Agreement, which sounds shady for a new Camry from the factory.
Has anyone else had this experience.
Thanx,
Hank2
See the wording below:
Agreement to Arbitrate Certain Issues
The parties agree that disputes concerning the following matters shall be settled by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association: (a) Vehicle warranty, workmanship, or repair; (b) Terms of the Buyer’s order, agreement or lease, or the correctness or enforceability of such documents; (c) Representations to induce buyer to purchase or lease a vehicle, and (d) Alleged unfair trade practices, consumer statues and regulations, or punitive damages.
The parties further agree that this agreement to arbitrate shall not require seller to submit to arbitration any action by seller to collect monies due in connection with buyer’s purchase or lease of the above-described vehicle. Claims by seller shall not be stayed or delayed pending the outcome of any arbitration of buyer’s claims. In the event that the buyer asserts any claims in litigation which is covered by the above-described arbitration agreement, the parties agree that the court shall stay such claims by buyer and order that those claims be arbitrated in accordance wit the agreement.
In the event that seller is required to retain an attorney to collect money due under buyer’s contract, the seller shall be entitled to its reasonable attorneys’ fees incurred in connection with such action, including, but not limited to, all fees and expenses incurred by seller in the collection action and in compelling arbitration of buyer’s claim. Any arbitration under the agreement shall take place in Dallas. Buyer consents to the jurisdiction of the courts of Texas for the purpose of enforcing this agreement, and further agrees that Dallas shall be the only location for any such litigation.
[Note: Dallas is 30 miles away.]
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1206-09.htm
you might also run it past an attorney friend if you really can't just tear it up and feel obliged to sign it because you want the deal too badly.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1206-09.htm
That's a no brainer. I paid $500 down payment and signed something that said they could apply it to delivery. But if I go in and they force me to sign the Agreement. Then after I ask for my money back, I'll write an article about my experience and submit to as many newspapers as possible.
The reason I buy a Camry rather than American is Reliability. And an Arbitration Agreement makes me question if Toyota stands behind their cars.
Thanx,
-Hank2
need the aggravation.
I am NEVER going back to that dealership for service.
I have since found another dealer near me that 'seems' to be on the level.
For my 30k service, I'm going to forego the dealership and bring my car to my
"GOOD EGG" brother-in-law. Together, we're going to do it as a team on his
2000 SLEv6 and my 2003 SLEv6.
One REALLY nice thing about this new place is that each of the bays have their
own individual door and they all seem to remain open. So if/when I bring it in
for major or semi-major repairs, I can at least remain very close to my vehicle,
and perhaps if the mechanice responds to my charisma I might be able to engage
in conversation with him and feel better about the work. Also, when you get to
stand near the mechanic while he's working, you might get some good tips and
insight into your vehicle that he otherwise wouldn't enter into the computer.
I found that bringing your car to the dealership is such an IMpersonal experience.
I had once asked the dealer "How is the mechanic going to communicate to me the
condition of my brakes?". His response was something like "Well, only if there
was a problem would he have noted that on the computer.".
That's not exactly what I wanted ! I would prefer that a HUMAN tell me SOMETHING !
Even if it's a statement like "You're good for at least another 10k miles.", or
"The pads are about half-way worn.". SHEESHHH !!!
I prefer mechanic.
I have a sign in my garage, it says......
SHOP RATES
$65/hr if you leave.
$75/hr if you tell me what you think.
$85/hr if you offer suggestions.
$95/hr if you stand and watch.
$150/hr if you help.
now, I thought I had everything covered when I rebuilt the tremelo amp on a Hammond M-100 organ, caps and transformers and all, which was badly burned up. when I got it all together again, $120 down the road, the organ played normally without tremelo, and then I got a huge cloud of white smoke. fortunately, cheap white smoke. discovered I missed a shorted tube in the first go-around, sigh, which caused all the problems. I'll know for sure in another $45, when the matched tubes come in this week.
haven't hosed a car up that badly since my first one, when I not only slammed the hood down on a new battery clamp and it shorted on the top bolts of that universal clamp... but when THAT was fixed, my nicely-rebuilt carb shot gas a foot in the air out the carb throat when I cranked it. turns out those cardboard gauges in the carb kits are good for something after all
or, to put it in Dilbert terms... "writing is fun. someday, we hope to learn to read."
Although I got fairly good at fixing things that weren't too complicated, I was far, far from ever being a "mechanic"
A mechanic could fix anything and I sure couldn't.
Remember the signs that were in front of some gas stations? "Mechanic on Duty"
We had one of those along with a crackerjack who, among other things, could overhaul a Quadrajet with his eyes closed!
The only humanity I find at large dealerships is in the parts department, where it is more "one on one" and the stress level isn't so high.
There are of course always exceptions that prove the rule, as with local, family type dealerships that have been in town forever and are small enough so that you can get to know someone really well there.
If I can't get into the shop and stand under my car while it's on the rack and talk to the service writer and the mechanic and make some good communal decisions, I'm outta there.
The private shop I use is family owned, and over the years I developed a good relationship with the owners. Naturally their overhead is smaller than any dealer department. So I'll bring my new Toyota to them.
I guess one must keep searching for that one in a million decent dealer.
The sales end and the service end at a dealership are different entities. Either end can be bad, but both don't have to be.
A good deal of the bad practices you find at dealerships are the result of bad management rather than direct malign intent. You have that too, of course, but much of what drives customers crazy is an uninspired and misdirected workforce or supervisory staff that may have carried bad practices from previous employers and have never been re-trained to do it right.
Where I live I could point out two dealers that are wall to wall with each other, and of about equal size and selling equal-market cars. One is Heaven and one is Hell. How else can you explain that contrast? Geography? Workforce? Economics?
I don't think so. I think it all has to do with training and setting the right standards.
So if you find an owner on premises, people happy in their work, good 'word of mouth' recommendations from friends, a clean efficient operation--you may have a winner.
What are you odds? I'll take a guess at 1 in 6.
Recently a letter was sent to me from Toyota stating " it has been far too long since I have visited Team Toyota". I will not give Toyota any of my business anymore.
Here is a list of grievances for further explanation.
Car had a defective relay after a month of ownership.
Had to disconnect batter so headlights would shut off.
Took car to only open Toyota dealership on Sunday due to major problem. Main maintenance tech told me that the dome-light/ dash-light dimmer switch was the day-running light off/on switch.
This is not a person I want working on my car and is not knowledgably on the Matrix.
This is simple manual info.
The maintenance tech did find the problem and could not fix it that day.
I asked for a rental. No car rentals were open and he would not give a car out to me. I told him I would need the car back and I would take it to the dealership near my home tomorrow, because that dealership was an hour out of my way. He told me" I had wasted his time and the car was taken apart and I'd have to leave it there". I told him no and to put it back together. He told me he did not put the dash back together and I had no headlights or taillight, or blinkers. I checked and I did have taillights and blinkers. Unfortunately I did not realized until I was on the road he had disconnected the speedometer. He was rude and when he was finishing the paperwork insulted my friend under his breath. He endangered my life with messing with my car as he did and I should have sued. I have worked on cars enough to know a relay to the headlights does not control the speedometer/ blinker or taillights. This was also confirmed by a non-Toyota mechanic.
Later I took my car to the Lithia Springs where they replaced the melted relay the same day. I was told by my purchasing dealership never to go to that other dealership again. Later the next day a related problem occurred. Took the car back. Maintenance would not pay for my car rental. I spent over $100.00 in car rental fees. After 2 times the car was still not fixed. I've been talked-down on treated as if I'm a moron, etc. The headlights are still malfunctioning, however not as bad as they were, and I will not come back to Toyota to fix, or buy a car. Toyota has wonderful people selling cars, but horrendously unhelpful people maintaining the cars. No amount of coupons or apologies will rectify this poor customer service.
Thanks for your time,
I purchased a 2004 TL last Monday. Upon delivery, there was a ding on the back, and the sales asked if I take it back for removal 2 days later. I bought it back, and asked that several work be done to the car to realigned the rear door because it is not flush with the rear quarter panel. That took 3 days. When I picked up the car, the door was slightly bent at the edge! There is a verticle "crease" at the door. Service asked that I take the car back this monday. Today, I called, and apparently, they need to compeltely repaint the door and the rear quarter panel while disassemble the door for body work!!!!
I was wondering, what consumer rights do I have? Can I ask for a new car in place of this one? Thanks for your help in advance!!
Typically, the Lemon Law kicks in when a part can't be repaired after 3 times, but there are many limitations.
Altho inconvenient, it sounds like the dealer is trying to repair the problems ... but it would not hurt to contact the manufacturer and BBB.
You might also ask for a courtesy loaner car, if they continue to take so much time. Usually these problems are rare, but they are a major headache to the one person, like you, that gets caught.
FWIW,
- hank2
I had a 89 Camry LE (250K) and 93 Camry LE (200K) and had no problem doing all preventive maintenance myself with no mechanic training and mimimum amount of tools. The cars all ran great with no problem.
1. Changing engine oil and filter and transmission fluid to owners' manual schedule is very easy. Just buy a flat oil container to store the used oil and recyle it at the part stores. Use a steel tube to lengthen the wrench handles for extra torgue to open the tough oil lugs.
2. Change front disk brake pads when the sensors start sqeaking. Toyota's OEM pads last longer on the rotors and will not make noise. I do much better brake jobs than any brake shops spending much less time not having to wait around at the shop. Anyone interested in the procedure, let me know.
3. Adjust the rear drum brake. Replacing the shoes is possible but the shoes hardly work and are rarely worn! It's much safer to buy the SE or XLE with 4 disk brakes to take full advantage of the ABS. Save a lot of time replacing pads too!
4. There is no need to service the fuel injector unit. Every 20K miles, give the car a full tank of premium gas (Shell V power with 5 detergents etc...) with 1 bottle of injector cleaner. That should keep the injectors nice and clean, and the cold start sensor and mechanism to work properly.
5. Replace the air filter to schedule to keep the fuel injector clean and fuel efficient.
6. Replacing the spark plugs on schedule. Use a small rubber hose to pick up the plugs from the wells. Do not use Platinum plugs for cars specified with resistor plugs, since that will stress and overheat the ingition coil and eventually burn it out.
7. The rubber timing belt is inside the engine head. Most break at about 100K -120K miles. When they break, nothing bad happens to the engine since it's a non-interferent design (unlike Mitsubishi's design). The distributor rotor is gear to this belt and will stop turning and engine just stop running. Call a tow truck to a reliable shop for $150 replacement. It may make sense to replace the water pump at the same time.
8. Buy a lifetime aligment policy for about $200 at tire stores (firestone or Sears) to keep the wheels aligned. The car will run smoother, eat less gas and will not chew up tires.
9. I prefer Michelin tires since they are proved to last longer, ride smoother, wear evenly, leak far less air through the rims therefore I dont have to check pressure too often.
10. US-built struts will probably wear out at about 100K. Replace them with Japanese gas struts and they should last a life time. Worn struts can induce instability and chewing up tires which can be an extreme hazards.
11. The US-built plastic-top radiator will probably leak at about 100K miles. Check for water leaks under the car occasionally as overheating can crack the engine beyond repairs. A new radiator should be round $200 part and labor. I replaced my own for far less by removing a few srews and hoses!
12. If the car is misfiring, there is a chance that the distributor rotor or the spark plug cables are worn. Replace them 1 at a time and check progress.
13. Once a year, take the car to the self-service washing station, wrap the distributor cap in plastic to prevent it getting wet, spray the engine with degreasing fluid and hose it down. That should keep the engine nice, clean and shiny, which would point to any oil leaks or any worn belts ect...
14. Spray some of the degreasing liquid in #13 on the rubber boots around the 2 axles and the rack and pinion assembly underneath the engine. That should keep the acids in the engine oil from cracking the rubber and let dirt into the greased ball bearings etc... so you won't have to replace them.
15. Check engine belts every year. Replace them when there are cracks on the underside.
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They replaced the timing belt, balancer,and water pump. All together with labor I paid about $800.00.
The vehicle ran fine for about 4000 miles and then one day the belt jumped again.
The shop said they would fix it under warranty. After working on the engine they called me and said the head was damaged ( valves ect..) and the they couldn't cover it under warranty because the culprit was the hydraulic belt tensioner.
Let's back up a second, they put the belt back on and put a new tensioner in then discovered the engine wouldn't start.
Now I just received a new bill for over $300.00 for the rework they did to discover the valves are bent.
Question: Should a timing belt tensioner be changed at the same time the belt is?
I think I'm being taken advantage of.
Augerjob
The sooner you get going with this the better for you.
At 4:00 pm I get a call back from the service rep that she has found my tires. They were at Pepe all along, but were mislabeled and thus she didn't know they were mine. I asked her how many 18-inch snow tires they have in parts such that they took 9 hours to find. She had no answer, as this was not her department. Because it was now after 4:00 pm Danya told me the car would not be ready until the next day. Thus, I had to go back to the dealership to obtain a loaner car. I asked her to please have it ready before Lunch on Tuesday as I had to leave my office by 3:00 pm.
Tuesday, December 13th, at 3:00 pm I left the office for a meeting, not having heard back from Pepe regarding my car. About one hour later, around 4:00 pm, the rep calls my cell phone to say my car was ready. Why it took another full day to change tires is unknown to me but I told her that I would pick the car up the next day, which I did.
On Thursday, December 14th, on my way home, the low tire pressure warning light came on the dashboard. I immediately pulled off the highway at the next exit to check the tires. All tires seemed properly inflated so I proceeded home, slowly. The next day I called Danya at Pepe and told her of the problem. She said that it was probably just the tire pressure sensor that was not reinstalled correctly and not the tires. She told me to bring the car back in, which I said I would do next Tuesday as I was not using the car on Friday or the following Monday.
Tuesday, December 20th, I call the rep to see if I can bring the car in to get this problem fixed. She tells me they are very busy and asks if I come back the next day, Wednesday, at 10:30 am, which I agreed to do. On Wednesday, December 21st, I drive over to Pepe Service at 10:30 am. I park my car at service and go to the rep's office. She is not there. I ask the other service representative where she is. He tells me that she is out of the office on Wednesdays (yes, you heard this right). I tell him that she told me to drop the car off to get the tire problem fixed. He rudely tells me he is busy with a customer and there are four more waiting. He tells me if I don't have an appointment they can't help me, as they are too busy. When I tell him that I have a tire problem and I am unsure whether the car is safe to drive he tells me, and I quote "then take it to Mavis".
Patience may be a virtue but only a fool would put up with the demonstrated incompetence of Pepe Infiniti.
Picking up the car after the repair, the service advisor tries to sell me on getting a very minor cold start problem fixed (runs rough for about a minute and a half). I decline and on the very short (under 3 miles) drive home, the car, which had sat for only a couple of hours since the repair, is threatening to die everytime I slow down or stop at a light. Finally, it does die, which is something it never does.
Obviously, the huge, high overhead Ford dealer's mechanic sprayed something somewhere. Less than a week later I received an unwanted phone call from the dealer wanting to know if I wanted my cold start problem fixed, I immediately told them to quit calling me. THis dealer is so large they normally conduct test drives at the back of their property, they were charging over fifty bucks for an oil change.....in 1990.
Have you talked to the dealer? Maybe the tech just put in the wrong one. The fact that to install it they changed the CD player from a multi disc to a single disc could be a good point to argue if it wasn't disclosed in the original agreement.
You don't need to get outwardly angry, yelling, abusive, etc. Just explain what you were told, what you expected, and what the current result was. Explain that you specifically got the 6-disc changer and tape player in dash and now that is gone. Explain that you specifically wanted the Toyota OEM navigation system and you didn't get it.
If the salesperson/sale manager don't help you to your satisfaction, speak with the general manager.
Hey, it can't be both. It is either an aftermarket or the stock Toyota one....
Now, what they are going to tell you is 'This is the exact one that this Toyota store always installs when someone adds on a nav to a car that didn't have one originally'....