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As for the BMW?? I don't care WHAT they do to the engine with turbo charging - it is a 4 banger. Acura has been constantly criticized for having a V6 versus a V8 - standard - and now BMW has a twin turbocharged 4??? Why aren't they being destroyed in the press? Advertising $$$$$$$ - that's why.
That's not completely true. Acura has been criticized for not having a V8 as an option. All the competitors had 6-cyls in the base models, so that was never a criticism toward Acura.
In other words, the competitors had optional models that were significantly faster than the Acura. So someone wanting more power had to look elsewhere. It has definitely cost them those sales.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Love the BMW 6 cyl. I think BMW is making a mistake. Also interesting to note that Acura is doing the opposite in their RDX by going from a turbo 4 to a 6 cyl.
Maybe BMW is trying to meet mpg goals?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Oh, absolutely. That's why everyone is scaling down and adding turbos.
Interestingly, I don't find my twin-turbo BMW I6 to be any smoother than my VW 2.0T was.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Actually the new BMW 4 has a single 'twin-scroll' turbo charger.
'At 240 bhp, the 528i’s 2.0-liter inline-4 with a twin-scroll turbo'
- from R&T
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/drives/2012-bmw-528i
- Ray
Odd wording....
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Many of the engines have what they call twin-scroll turbo, but it is just one turbo (while some models do have multiple actual turbochargers). There's a valve that adjusts to bring the turbo up to speed quicker so it can add power at much lower engine rpm than a typical single unit. This is less complicated than using multiple real turbos where often, one was smaller to get up to speed quicker, but the other one was larger to provide max boost at higher engine speeds. The timing on that type is messier, and you can have a hole in the middle of the power band. Things are much more linear with the twin-scroll design.
So what's the driving experience like?
Thanks.
Might want to look here to get an idea of the cost to own one over the other....
http://www.edmunds.com/tco.html
Repair costs? Not sure about that one, but fluids and wear & tear items don't seem to be vastly different.
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But, you're right. During the "free" maintenance period for BMW, you really pay nothing except for tires. That should be tallied as part of the cost of owning any of these brands, too.
Damn, that's cheap. Even when I called to ask what they would charge for our E30, I was told $100. I haven't even bothered to ask what they would want to do my 135i. It costs me about $85 just to buy the oil and filter from the store.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
If a consumer is looking to buy a used vehicle with relatively low maintenance costs, neither BMW nor MB is likely to be a great choice. Buying any luxury marque generally involves higher maintenance and consumable costs (e.g., tires), as you know.
Related to the original question, my point was that the BMW 2-year free maintenance will not be a factor since the vehicles being considered are 2-3 years old. And, for vehicles in that price range, I don't consider a couple hundred bucks per year in maintenance difference to be a significant amount - at least not enough to sway me toward one vehicle over the other.
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I know I got coupons from my BMW dealer stating how they're oil changes, brakes, tires, batteries, tune-ups etc were competitively priced. I guess they were right.
Then again, I haven't been to an outside mechanic (other than the dealer) for service in quite some time.
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Sweet car!
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I'm really diggin' on this.....
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/trim/shelbygt500convertible/
The vehicle selection will depend on who's doing the buying. If I trade in first for a convertible, it will probably be something cute - the Audi TT has always tempted me. If he jumps first, speed & power and cool lines will be higher on the list.
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Hope you get one. Love to see it when you do.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
$180.. geez... :surprise:
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kyfdx....even $95 sounds high to me. But, maybe I'm way out of touch.
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You make some excellent points. I've owned BMW 5 Series cars until 2008. Since then, I have been a Mercedes E350 Sport Sedan enthusiast. It cost me nothing for maintenance on the BMW's. I have a concern regarding their policy of oil/filter changes every 15K miles - a little too long between oil changes. My Mercedes requires oil/filter changes about every 10,000 miles, or once a year for me. Their "A" services run about $300 (10,000, 30,000, 50,000 miles) and their "B" service runs about $500 (20,000, 40,000, 60,000 miles).
If I had a BMW, I would be changing the oil more frequently - thus I would have to pay for oil/filter changes at 10,000 and 25,000 miles etc.
I find the differences between Mercedes and BMW to be quite significant. BMW is a Sports Sedan with a true luxury flair while the Mercedes E350 Sport Sedan is a luxury vehicle with a sporty flair. Both are great cars, but quite different in many ways.
2021 Genesis G90
abacomike....you just hit on a very heated topic in BMW land....oil change intervals. If you go by the oil life monitor, I've seen change intervals as high as 19K miles. To add to that, BMWs don't come with a dipstick (neither does my Audi). So, you rely on the computer nannies to tell you if you're oil level is low.
kyfdx probably knows better than me, but I think BMW started these long oil change intervals about 7-8 years ago. So far, I've not heard of any catastrophic engine failures. But, I believe the jury is still out.
Some of this I attribute to using synth oil. Still, oil gets dirty, regardless of the type of oil you use.
I used to be religious with 5K oil changes (a throwback to Acura's oil change intervals). Now, I am religious with 10K oil change intervals.
Speaking of which, the Audi is due. And, the S/C V6 is either using oil, or the computer oil sensor is bad. It keeps saying I'm a qt low (but dealership says oil level is fine). Something's amiss.
I remember back when I was buying BMW 5 Series vehicles in the mid to late 2000's, my dealer would do a free oil change every year, not matter how many miles. That was when it was changed at 12,000 miles. But I think it is up to the dealer to do the oil change earlier than 15K miles.
Yes, my BMW's had an electronically displayed oil dip stick in the NAV screen showing oil level as well as the miles to the next oil change.
I agree with you - 10,000 mile intervals are perfect for most full synthetic oil engines. That is what it averages for Mercedes Benz engines. I have a dipstick, but there is also a light that will illuminate if the oil level drops more than 1 quart to alert you to check the oil and add the missing amount.
2021 Genesis G90
I have no followed the change intervals given by the computer. Unfortunately, the first owner who leased it did, I'm sure.
personally, I'm doing mine at double the pace. So every ~7500.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Actually, that's a little early - but the length of time the oil is in the engine is just as important as the miles. I put on about 10,000 miles a year, so my oil changes are once a year, on average - that is whenever I keep a car that long - which is rare. (lol)
2021 Genesis G90
I just did 2 track days with it this week, so I don't think I'll even wait till 7500 this time, as a matter of fact.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am going to hazard a guess that Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, Audi, etc., program their computer chips to "average wear and tear" specifications and then even provide the owner with "ranges" depending upon use and driving habits. As an example, Mercedes Benz computer chips provide two "wear and tear" specs depending upon usage - one based upon mileage and one based upon "timeframes".
In other words, if Mercedes states in its manual that the oil should be changed according to the car's "computer" read out, their recommendations are for 1 year intervals or 10,000 miles, whichever occurs first and that is what the readouts provide.
At first, my "monitor" indicated number of days to the next "A" or "B" service, but then started showing miles to the next service because of the type of usage. I believe BMW and the rest do the same thing.
I would change the oil in my car at a maximum of 1 year or 10,000 miles, not any longer. BMW uses 15,000+ miles, but dealers offer a complimentary oil change/filter change once each year, no matter what the mileage is. So they too believe that oil should be changed at least once per year.
If I was going to keep my Mercedes E350 for a few years, I would change the oil every 6-8 months because I do mostly stop and go driving, with a little highway mixed in between. So my engine is being started and stopped frequently.
I have not seen any long term results of keeping synthetic oil in an engine for 15,000 miles or longer, no matter what the timeframe, but I believe 15,000 miles is too long to wait to replace oil in a high performance engine. Just MHO.
2021 Genesis G90
IMHO, instead of guessing, (probably) wasting a significant amount of money, why not just send a sample in for analysis the next time it's changed and see how much, if any, life is left. Depending on what you want them to test for, you can get one done at a certified lab for in the order of $15-50. Those in the $20-25 range cover the major important items: viscosity, TBN, metals, water, gas, and most wear inhibitors. While I haven't done it yet for this car, mine's two years old now, has less than 19K on it, and because of time and mileage, has had three oil changes (strange, but while they'll do a free one at a year, they don't reset the computer, and when it calls for an oil change, they'll do it again - had I driven all of those miles in less than a year, it would have been around 18K miles).
James, thanks for the info. Well thought out and documented. Appreciate your input.
2021 Genesis G90
I do know that there are pros and cons to this type of power steering such as a lack of "road" feel/feedback to the driver, increased fuel economy due to one less pump driven directly from the engine, over/under steering due to the lack of "feel" of the road, fewer moving parts and reduced overall weight, to name a few.
If you have any data or opinions regarding this system, I would greatly appreciate your input and feedback. Would I notice any negative handling of the vehicle? Does this system have the same or similar feel of regular variable power steering (hydraulics)? Will I be disappointed with the cornering and handling?
Thanks, in advance for your input and/or opinions.
2021 Genesis G90
That is exactly what I intend on doing! I always go over a new car with a fine toothed comb - dings, scratches, dents, paint defects, alignment, etc. Once I have accomplished that, and I am sure everything is AOK, I then consummate the deal.
I always make sure they loaded the tires with *nitro fill, that the car is driving straight, that the steering wheel, when centered, keeps the car in a straight line, etc.
I go over the paint, sheet metal, etc., even before we finalize numbers.
I was in the automobile business from 2001 through 2008, as both a salesman and then, for several years, as a sales manager. You'd be amazed at what we used to get from the Port of Jacksonville in terms of damaged, brand new cars. Sometimes it was the "carriers" fault, sometimes the cars were damaged during the unloading process, etc.
Thanks for the heads up, billyperksii. Appreciate your input.
2021 Genesis G90