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Dakota Quad SLT 4x4. Any advise all you owners can give on likes and dislikes. What engine to go with
and a 3.92 rear axle ratio. We have a 19' Travel
Trailer we just bought that weighs 3600#. We have
a 2000 Nissan Pathfinder that does not seem to be
able to handle the towing job too well. The PF has
only 170 hp, and 200 ft. lbs. torque. What ever
engine we go with will be a big step up from what
we have now. I would welcome your help, but I'm
leaning toward the 5.9 V-8, w/3.92 rear end. What
is the gas mileage difference between the two V-8's. Feel free to e-mail me:
drachir1usa@netscape.net
Thanks in advance!
If the Techron cures it, great, just switch fuels. If not and the Marvel Mystery oil cures or 'inhibits' the clatter, see your dealer at once...
aolsen - I was told (of course by a dealer 'type') that AFTER the trucks come off a railcar (at the destination yard), and BEFORE they get put onto the trucking companies transports - they can be 'intercepted' by a dealer / buyer at that juncture. I wouldn't normally believe this, except I picked up two cars at the exact same place in Dallas 10 and 12 years ago (even the same yard). I know these things are tracked better these days as I pulled two large barcodes off of my windshield after delivery. Worth a shot, anyway.
Quad waiters - I saw (on a train), tracked (the train to a siding - about 55 miles) and counted 48 railcars (CSX / Conrail whoever these companies are? I don't do trains.) 5 Quads per car 'row' X 3 decks per car = 720 minus two rows in one car of extended cabs - 10 = total of 710 Quads! What was weird was that they were headed EAST through Midland, TX - Aren't they made in Warren, Michigan? Shouldn't they be going west? I finally caught up with the train just outside of Big Spring, TX where it pulled off to load or unload some chemical looking cars. That's where I counted the Quads - It's also where a 'lady' backed into MINE (Quad) at the railroad crossing!!! Said she was in a hurry and didn't look to see if anyone was behind her! No kidding! And she had to be in an Elvis Caddy, AND she didn't have insurance AANNNDDD the damned thing HAD to be a freakin 'hot pink!' Minor scrapes at least, butttttt...
Oh, and the really freaky part of my day? I went by the train after the accident report was done, and guess what? That's right: no Quads. Not one car of em on that train after the 'siding incident.' ? No, I don't drink (much), but I will probably start real soon. --X-Files stuff, folks--
Now I wonder if bookitty's, kghgkh's, balser's and other's Quads are in a 'mystic train limbo' just touring the USA - circling, circling. :-O
Obviously, the fastest way to become an owner is to buy off the lot. If you're ordering seek out a dealer that has "allocation" because there are quadwaiters that ordered in Jan 2000 and are still waiting. A couple of a hundred dollars this way or that pales in comparison to going through DC material restrictions and lack of dealer allocations - meaning you want the truck sooner rather than later.
I was quite naive about my "real" level of understanding and interrelations of all of the different components on my order and therefore had to order again, which placed me further back in the queue. Don't know how fond you are of research but all of the Edmunds Topics related to the Dakota, 4.7 L engine, Quad/Club Cabs, etc. have a wealth of information. Many newcomers to these are very appreciative of getting real down to earth answers from experienced contributors and there's no name-calling.
Sounds a little crazy but you could buy a 500 sheet ream of paper and print all of these out and start reading - if your thinking 2001 model year.
Allen-
A quick question... I'm interested in having an aftermarket sunroof installed. The dealer told me it was an easy trick on the X-Cab models (requiring the installer to trim back a portion of the overhead console).
However, he also mentioned that the roof installation is NOT recommended on the Quads because it would damage the structural integrity of the cab... Which makes some sense, though I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's had such an installation done on the Quad.
towcrazy2 - I think the real issue with the Quad (as it seems to have a pretty large support beam overhead) is the external ribs. I'm looking at the same guys someone previously posted here (recently) at: [www.donmar.com] They seem to have a multitude of sunroofs / knowledge / etc. Might contact them. It sure looks like a flip up and back (exterior) type sunroof is the only way this thing'll work on the Quad. But I won't use it unless that optional trim kit they mention handles those external ribs on the truck in a very 'clean' way. And that seems like a bit of a reach to me. Plus, this truck is so 'silent' I really don't want to spoil the integrity of the cab. Oh shoot, now I've gone and talked myself completely out of it! :-P
Door molding - whilst not relevant to the current discussion I would recommend anyone buy the plastic sill protectors - just snap right on, cost next to nothing and work well.
Tire sizes - didn't see it specifically mentioned, but I may have missed it - just make sure whatever modifications you make to tires either:
1) Don't affect overall size
2) Get the computer reprogrammed if the size does change (to avoid speedometer / odometer problems).
Also check that ABS is OK with larger tires.
It was with some consternation that I bypassed the 4.7 and ordered the 5.9... Primarily towing capability. I'm currently in a '95 Ram shortbed with the 5.9 and standard axle. I tow a 14-foot enclosed trailer... Packed with a couple of harleys, tools, fishing gear, etc. it can tip the scales at up to 5,000 lbs., and frontal area is humongous. The Ram handles it OK, so long as OD isn't switched on... though it wouldn't crest some of the longer rises in the Smokey Mountains at more then 70 mph.
The loaded Quad Cab with 5.9 is about 300 lbs. lighter than the Ram SB, so I figure I'll be safe so long as the tranny holds up. For those who plan to tow, I would definitely recommend switching to synthetic rear-end gear lube (per Chrysler recommendations).
As to gasoline grade with the 5.9, I've never had any problem running 87 Octane, though I've found that switching to a Midgrade gets rid of some mild pinging while towing.
I HATE its thirst for fuel, but the 5.9 setup has been bulletproof in the Ram... Hoping for the same in the Quad!
That said, I would like to ask about mileage again. Most of y'all seem to have 4.7L 4x4s with 5 spd. Now I am planning to get a 4x2, auto, probably 4.7L. So I look with great interest at the MPG reports from you owners. Should I expect better gas mileage with a 4.7L, auto, 4x2 than what I see mentioned for a 4x4 5 spd?
Automatics are generally regarded as less fuel efficient than manuals (gear ratios and so forth), but this isn't really fair because, in large part, stick shift fuel econmy is dictated by the owner's brain.
I could beat the fuel economy of an automatic hands down - I call it the 'wife coming with me' mode. Alternately I could have much worse fuel economy - the 'keep forgetting this isn't the Jaguar' mode.
In general terms, for the average Joe (or Jo) I would expect to see broadly similar figures for a 4x4 5sp and a 4x2 auto.
I specced and ordered a 4X4 Quad, 5.9 mill, with ALL options on March 4... Used invoicedealer.com to spec, worked with three dealerships, and ended up at $200 UNDER dealer invoice (the store dipped into its holdback to move the metal, but will make up for it in reduced advertising cost PNVR along with increased allocation of the hot, high-gross sellers -- e.g., PT Cruiser). Interestingly, the highest came in at about $1,200 over dealer invoice.
Spoke with the dealer today. He gave me the Vehicle Order Number and indicated the truck was scheduled to ship from the factory on 3/26... Called DC, spoke with a CSR, she confirmed the ship date and gave me the VIN#.
I live about 130 miles from the delivering dealership, but in my view, well worth a Saturday morning drive. And granted, the delivering dealership is 100 miles from point-of-manufacture (Warren, Mich.)... Still, I am astounded by the order and build time! Knock on wood again, but given a few days to load it on the piggy-back and couple of days in the store for prep, I'm looking at less than 5 weeks!
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm sensing that those of you who've had problems with build and delivery time may be dealing with TWO variables:
1. The efficiency with which the dealer enters your orders.
2. The problem with rail transportation... And the fact that a vehicle can sit in a yard for weeks before they plop it on a train, then additional time before it's loaded on a piggy-back.
On another note... Has anyone retro-fitted SLT bodyside moldings onto a Sport model?
I bypassed the SLT package simply because I prefer the monochromatic look over the brightwork. Yet, it perturbs me that bodyside moldings aren't available on the Sport.
Finally, for those of you who are trying to spec a new truck, I would recommend invoicedealers.com as a good starting point. I've checked a few other services as well. But this one seems to most closely align with what Dodge (and other brands) use in their dealer data books.
Perhaps it's old-fashioned, or my "old school" degree in automotive technology... But I thoroughly subscribe to an engine break-in with tender loving care...
-- Dump in a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil, Mobil Upper Lube or other upper cylinder lubricants with your first couple of tankfulls.
-- Vary your speed over the first 500 miles, being certain to DECELLERATE often (when the engine pumps oil to the head and upper cylinder for proper ring and valve seating).
"Trivia" perhaps... But I've done the same in all of my vehicles (auto & bikes) over the years, and it's always contributed to extremely reliable and "tight" motors. My current Ram (5.9) with 68,000 miles uses about 6 ounces of oil between oil changes (at 3,000 miles) and still runs as strong as ever.
'Nuff said!
Plus if you opt for the Premium Overhead convienience group, the console extends almost to the back of the front seats...making the sunroof installation happen at almost the middle of the roof..
I have already looked into adding a sunroof and have since discarded the idea...I am now looking for a power sliding rear window with an integrated defroster from the aftermarket so anyone knowing of one...please post it or email me at gchadsmith@cs.com .....
good luck
I have the 3.9L auto 3.55. I get from 15 to 17.5 mpg rual driving short trips to work about 5 miles each way. The 4.7 auto seems to get about the same mpg. The 4.7 manuals are reporting around 20 mpg. It doesn't seem to make much differnce between 4x4 and 4x2. I can't understand that.
For now, I'll use my imagination and crack the rear windows!
Next, for general ineterest, I think, is the question of Dakota (and pickup in general) aerodynamics. This may get a little long, so if you're not interested I'm really sorry, but I think its pretty compelling. Skip it if you like. A friend of mine is a fireman. They have, down at the station, among other things, big ventilation fans and smoke machines. I took my 2000 4x4 QC down there when he got off shift a few days ago to see where the smoke went with the wind. We tried low, high, and centered wind, as well as front, quartering, side, and tail winds. I have neither tonneau nor cap. He drives a Ford F150 (96, the old body) with a cab-hi cap. On the Dakota, VERY LITTLE smoke went into the bed. Conclusion: Don't expect MPG increase from a tonneau. With the tailgate off, lots of smoke went in, especially coming up from under the truck, but also eddying around the sides, so don't remove the gate hoping for better mileage, either. The smoke was a little more disturbed behind my cab rear window than behind his truck- shell window & tailgate together - which may be why SUV's get slightly better MPG. I'm no scientist, but I am convinced now that DC uses a wind tunnel even for their trucks, and the owners/drivers shouldn't dismiss the design. I'm only getting about 14.6 MPG (3500 mi, 4.7, 3.55, auto) on California gas, with our lovely dual catalytic converter setup. That's with K&N, careful break-in, and tires at 40 psi. A leer shell is the next step, and then maybe a chip if I have to. I'm now sure though that a tonneau won't help a Dakota QC much. Just thought you'd find it interesting...
Thanks for all the other great posts; been reading since before I got my truck (off the lot) and have been learning more all the time.
Ben
I will be taking a fairly long trip at the end of May, 700 miles one way. I have removed the webbing from the air box and removed the black box on top of the intake manifold, no k&n filter though. The installation of the pvc pipe took about an hour and half. I took the extra time to chamfer the shoulder on the street elbow so that it would fit in the groove of the stock gasket at the throttle body. I also left on the original tube coming out of the air box because the air box opening did not line up with 90 coming off the throttle body. Also it was necessary to leave it on so that the air box cover could be removed without taking the whole assembly apart each time.
Unfortunetley none of the air box mods as had any effect on mpg. There is a little bit more of a growl under full throttle.
Just my .02 worth, Scott
I have a 4.7 / 5sp / 4x4 / club and have never got 20mpg yet - 16.5-17 is about the norm. If I cruised at 55 for the whole tank then yes it would be over 20, but who is going to do that.
The reason that 4x4 makes little difference over 4x2 is that most of the time the 4x4 will still be in 2wd mode. Therefore if 4x4 isn't used the only difference is the additional weight of the 4x4, which isn't that significant a factor.
bsparx, I posted quite some time ago a link to a scientific study that was done on the aerodynamics issue - here is the link again:
http://mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~ehaffner/did.htm
They used a regular cab Ram for their tests,expect less significant numbers in club cab, and particularly in quad cab because the bed is obviously smaller. Nevertheless interesting reading, especially that removing the tailgate actually made it worse!!
Then check the manual, then [non-permissible content removed] to the dealership and everyone else.
gallen 1586 - Thanks for your info; I am interested in your 3.9L experiences. How do you feel about its overall performance? Do you have suficient "quick" acceleration in city traffic and entering interstates/freeways? How about passing, etc?
Everyone:
I remember seeing something about a Transmission fluid leak in the new Dakotas on this site. I don't want to raise an issue that may not be one but thought I should mention this that so everyone can be aware. I was talking to my father, a friend of his got his new Dakota (either QC or CC, I'm not sure, and I'm not sure of the engine/tranny configuration), and two months later was delivering mail. Stopped and noticed smoke coming from under the hood. By the time he got out the flames were poking out by the tires. All thats left is the Tailgate. Insurance company found a transmission leak had sprayed fluid over the engine which eventually caught fire. They also mentioned that it had been reported a couple of other times. Just something to keep an eye on I guess. I haven't seen any other posts regarding a tranny fluid problem lately.
It's A Sport with T&H package, which presumably includes wheel flares. Any advice from those of you who know on a good mud flap/running board combo?
On the Ram, it was just a matter of having ribbed aluminum boards installed, then slapping on a set of the Mopar "soft" mudflaps... Gave me decent protection for the rockers and under-fenders for 5-1/2 years.
But I'm in the dark on the Quad... Ilive down two miles of dirt/gravel roads, and this is "mud season" here. So, the protection is a priority!
Next point of order will be a bedliner and tonneau. Any suggestions on hard tonneaus? Rolling tonneaus? Folding hard tonneaus?
Comments based on experience would certainly be appreciated!!
Whether the same holds in your area, I don't know. But in this area, Quad sales results have apparently been disappointing... The primary reason is pricing. A well-equipped Quad gets into the "full-size" pickup price point.
Result? Ram and F-150 are scavenging Quad sales. The "bigger is better" mentality still seems to prevail, and I believe that DC is going to put a real push on these babies to grab market share.
Not to position myself as an expert by any means... But I develop sales training programs for all the "big 3"... I've recognized certain signals in the past (e.g., faltering sales of the Intrepid and resultant push and incentives), and I think you may see the same happening with thye Quad.
GOOD LUCK!
The point (with luck) is that build-time on the Quad is being shortened substantially.
I too have witnessed a four-week shortening of my build date from 2nd week of May to April 19-20. Ordered on March 20.
With all organizations, from the government to a company, you have to be good at reading their "smoke" to get to their real intentions.
I've been in the training and consulting business to automotive suppliers for for 20 years. And for what it's worth, what the dealer will tell you vs. what's going on with the factory can be vastly different.
The Quad, unfortunately, finds itself at a price point that equals lots of "full-size" models. Yet, DC has a sizeable investment in R&D on the Quad, and wants to recoup it. So, it'll push the Quad, hope not to lose market share, take a hit on profits for a time, then get on with life.
Meanwhile, the wholesale network is being pressed to press the dealers to move low-gross metal with the promise of a return favor in the form of increased allocations of high-gross stuff (e.g., PT Cruiser).
It's all a very "delicate dance" that goes on in the back room, out of our sight. The bottom line is MARKET SHARE and PROFITS for the factory as opposed to primarily PROFITS for the dealer.
In fairness, dealers are making very little on new vehicles these days. The availability of dealer invoice pricing to the "common Joe" via internet and other means has cut his profit dramatically over a period of just several years.
What keeps the dealer in the black in the New Vehicle Department?
Well, there are just three ways of increasing profit:
1. Increase Volume
2. Increase Gross Profit
3. Decrease Selling Expense
#2 is OUT THE DOOR!
That leaves them with increasing volume and decreasing expense... Which is precisely what SMART dealers are doing via the internet connections.
A final note on dealership operations... FIXED COVERAGE through the service department...
If a dealer service department isn't able to cover at least 80% of the dealership overhead (including sales dept. expense), he's not cutting the mustard.
Again... It's a delicate dance that often pits dealers against the factory.
Hopefully, in the case of the Quad, the consumer will come out ahead! And hopefully, the dealers will see a fair return for their efforts.
working on it.
I was sooo proud of my new 4WD Ram at the time... Talked with the head "techie" in the test lab. He asked what it was equipped with, and I ran through the list (nearly loaded).
He explained that my "new" Ram was indeed "4WD" in name, but not in FACT. It was missing just ONE option... Anyone care to guess???
I'm with you on the "better gas mileage thing" I have had trucks most of my adult life,tail gates on tailgates off,covers you name it.It makes 0 differance.At least none that is at all noticable.Its a dead topic.
My .02$ Allen-Quad lover 1324 miles to date.
Have one on my current Ram... Installed when it was new, 5-1/2 years ago. The rim retainer straps popped after 3 years, and the rear glass is sagging over the tailgate to the point where I'll have to shim up the hinges while prepping it for sale in anticipation of the new Quad.
This may be the fault of the installing aftermarket outfit, but it's REAL. In retrospect, I would have gone with the "framed" rear glass on the cap, rather than the "cool-looking" frameless glass.
Good luck!
MPG Report---> 1st Tank of gas = 16.5 MPG
2nd Tank of Gas = 17.5 MPG
3rd Tank of gas = 17.4 MPG
Quad Sport 4.7L, 4x4, 5sp, T&H Group, 3.55 rear end and all goodies EXCEPT tow packages...
NOTE: The Overhead Computer has been Dead on the money with MPG so far...
By the way...Just completed a stereo upgrade and it went perfect and looks just like the factory put it in...I went with the ALPINE CDA-D855 CD Reciever with Spectrum EQ & Remote Control and wire harness adapter...Keep Quad-ing
B.A.B.
(BTW the 'FEET' option also blows some air on the side windows)
On the 2000 Dak it is EASY to tell when the AC is engauged... just stand in front of the vehicle while it is idling. The electric fan can be heard loud and clear at all times when the AC is engauged. Otherwise, the idle is virtually SILENT when the AC is OFF. Those with good senses can also hear/feel the AC compressor kicking in/out at idle. (This is dependent on outside air temp.)
The 'little bump' you are feeling on the temp. knob is most likely the flapper seating on each end of its travel.(Either allowing flow thru the heater core or not.)
Same deal with GM though. There was a good article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about GM's VOM system and how it short changes some dealers much like Dodge has done.
I chose the 3.9 for two reasons,hoping to get
better gas mileage and it has been in production
for several years with no major problems. So far
the gas mileage has not been noticeable better than the 4.7..The 4.7 just hasn't been in production long anough for me. The 3.9 has plenty
of power for merging in traffic,passing,climbing
steep hills,etc. It has all the power I will ever
need. I would order this engine again if buying another quad. Do you have a quad or ordering one?
I installed the Mopar folding tonneau cover on my quad. I am very satisfied with it. It
will fold up out of the way very easily,locks to
the front bed rail and tailgate for security. The
hinges and siderails are water tight. The only place for a leak is where it seals to the front rail and tailgate there is no seal, but I have been in several heavy rains no leaks so far.
Regarding post 277,
For what it's is worth to you, I think that there is no choice but the Rhino Liner. Had our new quad done two weeks ago and it looks magnificent. Granted it costs a bit more than a drop in, but it virtually indestructible, won't slide and damage your paint and won't trap water. It grips items very nicely. I got it done for $349. The truck is dark garnet red/driftwood pearl and we had the bed sprayed in grey. Drop me an email at: Jakebud@aol.com if you'd like to chat more about it
SPIKE
Have you driven on the interstates? I remember one posting that describes no kick at all at 55MPH when given the gun to do some passing. That bothers me a little.