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Comments
Anyway, enough day dreaming of my next camping trip, I better get back to work.
Later
Swoosh
With 4X4, CC, Long Bed and V10 your truck weighs over 8000 lbs, not including people, fuel, and stuff in the bed. I have a '350 and if I remember correctly, for a V10, CC, single rear wheel with a 3.73 rear end, the combined weight of truck and trailer (GVCWR) combo should not exceed ~17,000 lbs. It can pull a lot more, but stopping it would be the real problem. (The rating for F-250 may be less.) If you have the 4.30 rear end in it I believe you can pull more.
Most I tow is ~7500 lbs. On flat ground, at 65, I've got to check my mirrors to make sure trailer is still back there. On big hills, the Tranny will kick down out of overdrive, but I can maintain my speed no problem. If it starts bouncing in and out of OD, then I'll switch it off so as not to stress Tranny. I've got more HP than a '99, but torque is pretty close and torque is what pulls your trailer. Only V10 drawback is mileage - empty I get around 12, if I drive like a Grandma I can squeak out 14+ mpg. Towing on flats 8-9, towing in mountains I've gotten as low as 6-7 mpg. I really only tow 5-10 times a year though, if you've got a bigger rig, or tow all the time I'd probably tell you to get a diesel - more towing torque and mileage is much better. I didn't buy V10 for mileage, and I love to put my foot into it and surprise the heck outta cars at stoplights, but when gas started hitting $1.85 I was happy the truck's not my daily driver.
One thing to watch out for with V10 is the exhaust flutter. Accelerating from about 2200 to 2600 RPM (regardless of gear) engine makes this weird noise - almost sounds like a diesel. It's the result of exhaust gases resonating in exhaust manifold Y-pipe. It evidently doesn't hurt the motor, but it makes me nuts to have paid so much for truck and have it sound weird. Ford has tried a couple of fixes, including re designed Y-pipe, but they haven't totally solved it. Only solution I heard so far is replacement headers.
As far as the price, you didn't say what type of F-250 - XL, XLT, Lariat, or Lariat LE? Any truck with 4x4 gets a good price these days, and you don't find that many used late model Super Duties out there. I paid almost $35K for my '00 new. Check out the price guide here on Edmunds or over at Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com ?)
Also, if I recall correctly, the "Black Beauty" is the Lincoln sister truck of the F250 or was it the 150?
Another FYI, the PSD holds 15 quarts, so you'll need alot..
Now the opinion part. I believe that the 5.4 may get better MPG while empty, even if it's only 1-2 mpg more, but I believe the V10 will get better when pulling a load. I base that on a buddies 5.3 in his GMC that gets near 15 unloaded but when pulling a lighter boat than mine he's lucky to touch 10MPG. Of course all the pinging and him having to run premium fuel pisses him off something fierce. LOL!!
4x4, I usaully get 15-16 on the road as long as I keep it under 70. If where your doing the majority of your traveling will be hills or mountains, I did say get the V10, otherwise the 5.4 will be fine. If I was driving in the mountains everyday, I would of opted for the 10, but I'm not so the 8 does fine. 22,000 miles, no major complaints, other then the ford boys at the dealer, but that's another story.
My family started doing the tent thing...then slide in... now 22Ft TT, after last week out in Ft Huachuka AZ over the 4th, the comments from "she who must be obeyed" SWMBO, suggested that we may be looking at larger trailers soon....sure hope she dosn't push to the point where a PSD is required, as I REALLY like this V10
BTW Loaded w/6800lb TT and three adults @65-75 mostly I-10 avg 8.9 mpg
Unloaded around town and to/from work mixed Hwy/rural avg 14.2 mpg
This is the CC 4X4 BFT (big truck)
My 00 F250 SC 4x2 5.4L 5sp 4.10LS averages 15.5mpg with mixed city/highway driving..
My best tank was 17.8 mpgs and I bet 18 is possible but you'll need to keep it under 65mph to do it..
I think the 5.4L would handle your slidin camper just fine, and give you slightly better mpg's than the V10, and have plenty of power to let you easily keep up with traffic..
Echoing what others have said, if your going to tow more than 3k around, or live in mountains then the V10 would probably do better.
Sortof nice to see some of the old names on the board.. We all love our trucks so theres not much to say otherwise..
In 1999 I waited for the delivery of my new 99 CC 4WD PSD with a 3.73 LS for several months. During this time I read every posting I could on PSD. I think we even had a topic for PSD then.
I read then where guys were getting 20+ MPG with their PSD with 4WD. I could only get around 14 to 15 at best on the open road with mine. While down in FL at a big RV show, a Ford executive with some Ford PSD engineers were down there and I was able to talk with them. The bottom line, I was getting the best fuel mileage that I could expect. They told me the problem was that I had 4WD. They said that adding 4 WD to a truck will cost one an average of 4 to 5 MPG. So very disappointed with the fuel mileage and 25000 miles on the truck, I sold it.
Now I am again ready to take the plung and buy another diesel. I have read a lot of the posting on the new Durmax that GM has and have decided against it. Ford V10 and GM's new 8.1 gas seems like they are hungry for gas. I beleive the best I have seen on these two engines is around 13 MPG with some saying that they are getting 14 MPG. So that leaves me with Ford PSD, I won't even consider the Dodge with the Cummings. A friend had one and I could write a book on the Dodge.
Now I am planning on getting a F250 2WD 3.73 rears. After reading through most of the posting I am still confused on what most of you are getting for Fuel mileage on the PSD with 2WD. Can any of you give me some figures and the type of driving you are doing?
Also, I think I read in one posting where someone said that the truck will get a new front and new dash for 2002, has anyone seen anything on this?
At the present Ford has a $1000 cash back on the in stock 2001. Any help with any of this will be greatly appreciated.
gtojerry@bellsouth.net
As for as the Dodge goes, my buddy had nothing but problems with the truck after it got a few miles on it. The engine did not give him any trouble as far as I know, but other things such as rattles, mis alinement of the doors, problems with transmission (auto) and windshield wipers. Maybe he just got an lemon. This happens in all brands and models.
I am now faced with the decision of waiting on the 2002 or going aheadd and buying a 2001. My salesman at the local dealership called last night and said he found me the truck like I wanted in TX. However, he could not get it shipped to his dealership, but since my family has bought seveal autos form him, he would call that dealer ship and get them to fax a copy of all the particules on the truck and he would give me the dealsrship adddress and I could drive over to TX about 900 miles from where we live and trade with that dealer. Pretty good of him, although he knows we will be buying more cars from him as long as he treats us right.
I hope someone can answer the question about the 2002, I will drive over to the dealershipe this morning and ask him if he has heard anything about a new design front and dash.
Good luck with yours, I know you will like it.
Jewel effect headlamp standard on XLT and Lariat
Colors added:
Arizona Beige
Dark Shadow Grey
Colors deleted:
Harvest Gold
Bright Amber
Interior:
Driver's side grab handle standard on all trims.
Power Passenger Seat (Crew Cabs only)standard on Lariat, optional on XLT.
XLT and up-New seats w/increased bolster height and shoulder width for greater comfort , and improved lumbar support system providing greater range of adjustment.
Colors added:
Medium Flint
Colors deleted:
Medium Graphite
Dark Denim Blue
Functional changes:
Automatic transmission temperature gauge in instrument cluster (replaces battery gauge; battery light is retained).
New air filter minder standard w/Powerstroke
Upgrade from 5 to 6 speed manual transmission on both gas engines.
Improved performance and shift feel of 6.8L Triton powertrains
Option Program Changes:
ADDED:
Advanced Security Group (remote keyless entry, new auto lock and auto lamps) standard on Lariat, optional on XLT.
Adjustable foot pedals available w/ automatic transmission on XLT and Lariat trims.
REVISED:
New forward fold feature on telescoping trailer tow mirrors available on XL trim w/ manual mirrors and XLT and Lariat trims w/
power mirrors.
www.ford-diesel.com
As far as mileage. 4x4 vs 4x2 generally does not cost 4 or 5 mpgs, but usually in the 1 or 2 mpg range.. Auto tranny will also cost 1 or 2 mpgs as well..
The BIGGEST difference in mpg's sometimes comes from driving style..
Cummins will just about blow-away a PSD and will last longer, saw a '92 with 375kmi and no rebuild yet. Also, that 727 was NEVER designed to be used with a diesel. That was just stupidity on Dodge's part.
IMHO anyone who buys a diesel with an auto tranny shouldn't be behind the wheel of one.(unless of course they have a physical disability and they can't use their left leg). What good does it do you? The manufacturers have to DETUNE the motor to save the tranny! There goes your towing capabilities. What about fuel mileage? You'll pick-up about 5-6mpg with a manual. There is no benefit to an auto on a diesel.
Regarding the rattles and misalignment of the doors. All diesels that I know of rattle, it's a truck. The doors? loosen the hinges and move them until they are aligned. If he's not sure take it to the dealer.
I'm not knocking Ford. I don't own one and I probably never will. To each his own. I just wanted to give you some Dodge facts before you write them off based on a friends experience.
Thank You for letting me vent.
Are you aware that all makers of trucks now claim higher towing and hauling numbers for their automatic transmissions. That sort of blows holes in you theory about de-tuning the engines. And with torque converter lock-up now used on autos there is no deifference on highway mileage either.
I am not tring to be nasty, but these are old hold over thoughts that were correct in the 70's and 80's, but 20 years of technology have erased the differences and actually given auto's the edge over manuals now.
Now some people still prefer a manual over an auto and thats great because our differences are what make life interesting.
John
Badram, in stock trim the PSD walks the Cummins and both get knocked out by the Duramax. Hopefully Ford/Navistar will be back on top with their next generation diesel. Right now the 7.3 is a lame duck. FYI, buddies diesel ram had all the text book problems; trans, front end, brakes etc. Dodge made excuses about tire sizes being too big!!!
I'm not in the car sales business, but I'm guessing that a majority of most dealers sales come from off the lot rather than customer orders. Otherwise there would be a trend of smaller and smaller showrooms, whereas it seems like dealers are trying to get bigger and bigger inventory..
Also remember that dealer allotments are usually based on previous sales.. Those dealers with more sales get bigger allotments, allowing them to order more of the most popular combinations.
-1500 + 900 = -600.
How did they make 7900 again?
I have another option for you to get exactly the truck you want. Go to Ford's site "build" your truck and then send it to 5 dealerships within 300 miles of where you live. Someone is going to be hungry enough to get you exactly what you want.
I live in Atlanta, once the dealership in my neighborhood found out what I was doing he was more than willing to find it for me instead of me doing it. They paid to have it transfered from just north of Nashville. Here's the best part, they added color matched steps, switched mirrors, threw in floor mats and two Ford Racing caps. All of this at 3,900 below MSRP. This price is at or below invoice.
I know, my brother is a Ford salesman. Now you say, why didn't you buy from your brother? He is in Mobile and could not get it from Nashville. Secondly at that price the salesman didn't get hardly anything, probably a $50 minimum for a deal.
Good luck. By the way, I'm jumping on a plane to go to Marathon. You know, cheese country.
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WTF are you talking about!!!!! If a dealer gives $10,000 for a trade and wholesales it for $7000, he LOSES $3000. Did you forget the dealer only collected $20,000 PLUS the trade to deliver a $30,000 truck????
A dealer does not lose holdback at any time during the stocking of a vehicle. What most dealers do is what's called FLOOR their vehicles which is basically taking a loan out to keep vehicles in stock. The dealers have to pay the interest or "flooring" every month until the loan is paid. This is why some people think it best to buy at the end of a month.
So your right, the holdback amount doesn't change. But the amount the dealership had to pay while the vehicle sits on the floor does increase with time..
(I didn't really look at his math numbers, but was more looking at the concepts he was trying to convey)
After looking at the numbers, your right, they don't really add up..
Going by exactly what he stated, the dealer lost $2100 (3000- the 900 he got from holdback).
When I'm buying a vehicle, I try to treat the trade-in and the new vehicle as 2 different transactions.. It is common practice for dealerships to either give you nothing for the trade-in, and discount the new vehicle alot, or vice-versa.. I bet this is the 2nd oldest trick in the book..
The bottom line is the quoted post was flat goofy.
If a dealer has a replaceable commodity it will make a deal. Case in point is I bought my '01 Super Duty off the lot a month ago for $300 over invoice and got $2000 back in rebates. Went shopping for a replacement for the Cobra this weekend and the Accura dealers wouldn't budge on their new just released models while there was LOTS of wheelin' on the Lexus GS and at the same time they were getting $7000 OVER sticker on the new SC430!!! It's all about supply and demand.
Not sure if you know I was an F&I manager for what seems like an eternity but I know the bizz very well. $1000 back of wholesale is generally what the dealer will go on a trade so there is room for reconditioning, for the "pack" the dealer puts in for unexpected repairs and to make sure its in line for financing.
When a customer comes in quoting Edmunds or KBB or other pro consumer sources SOME dealers will take that as a challenge and waste hours of your time. If you go in and quote car lingo like: roach, lay down, make a nickel....dime, OA, buried in a trade....and a few others, you usually get what you want fist pencil(that's another one, first pencil!!)
You definately know the lingo better than me..
The line the saleperson always lays on me is 'I'm only making $50 on this sale'.
My response always is: 'thats between you and the dealership owner'
hehe, I agree, the origional post was a bit goofy, but my guess is it was mostly poor writing to get his/her point across..
Good to see on the boards again.
Ophus
It was pure luck also because I was sort of screwed out of my '00 Super Duty.(long story)
I really looked hard at the 8.1/Allison combo but that came in at about $7000 more than the Super Duty because of the trans and no rebates.
Thanks again
Ophus