Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen · April 2012

I like that 6-series, too. Nice.
CPO 128i for $25k? Could do worse for the money, but I still pass... especially considering I bought my 135i for $24k.
M3 is way overpriced.

A stick-shift X3. Interesting... but 90k miles? ouch!

The TT depends greatly on which engine option it has. My guess is it is the base (since no mention of quattro), in which case not a particularly thrilling ride. A GTI would whoop it.

The Benz is certainly cheap, but I've never been a fan of that engine.

isellhondas · April 2012

So, yesterday my son and I attended a local car show. This time it was Italian cars. Lots of Fiats, Alphas, Ferraris etc. Normally these don't do much for me....until...

I spotted a gleaming, PRISTINE Alfa-Romero Spider with a For Sale sign on it!

It was a 1993 and try as I may, I wasn't able to detect one fault on it! It was dark green with a PERFECT body and interior. It had all of the options including a factory removable hardtop, air
conditioning and power steering. 67,000 miles!

To say this car was NICE would be a gross understatement!

Under the hood was as perfect as the outside and after chatting with the seller, I felt confident
this car had had a pampered life. Asking price was 10,750.

I have his name and phone number.

Any thoughts? I'm not much on Italian cars but it can't be anymore troublesome than a European car....or can it?

Any ideas on what it's worth?

stickguy · April 2012

well, FWIW, last time I checked italy was in Europe. So I am guessing it will be about the same amount of trouble!

j/k. I'm guessing you meant German there?

Anyway, I have no personal experience, but I have always been under the impression that the Alfa was a pretty sturdy, reliable car if you kept up with maintenance.

isellhondas · April 2012

Oops...yes, of course I was thinking for German cars!

stever · April 2012

Go for it. We're not getting any younger.

isellhondas · April 2012

You know, that's the truth.

I volunteer at our local Food Bank and I recently had the chore of unloading a truck full of bagged potatoes and onions. At 75 pounds per bag I suddenly realized that I'm not 25 years old anymore!

" Plan for tomorrow but live for today"

jayrider · April 2012

Those Italian Alpha's are like works of art. Like having a beautiful lady waiting in the garage for you. Do your homework and find a shop that works on them and take over a box of doughnuts and get them talking. Have them check it out after you decide[ ?] to buy. They will know all the problem spots for the car and what it costs to maintain it. Act accordingly. No one has to tell you to keep your emotions at bay -- you know the story but it sounds very cool. 10k isn't all that much these days.

isellhondas · April 2012

Thanks. I know better but it's good to hear it again. I didn't do this when we bought the BMW last year and I'm sure it'll bite me in the rear soon!

mark156 · April 2012

I just discovered a "El Morocco". Ever heard of it?

Well, in 1955 this rich guy decided to customize the Chevrolet BelAir to compete with the El Dorado. He got the approval from GM and bought the cars $50 over cost (as the story is told).

The "El Morocco" was an upscale BelAir offered in a convertible, two-door hardtop or four door sedan. They are really amazing to see if you google them. Very rare indeed as they didn't sell well. They were $700-$1,000 more than a regular BelAir and for double that, you can have the REAL El Dorado.

A person that could spring for the extra bucks for a El Morocco could probably afford the difference and have a real Cadillac. The El Morocco is still cool nonetheless. Totally, there were about 36 made.

Mark156

fintail · April 2012

Heck, if it passes a test drive, why not. The engines can be a little coarse, but are durable, just gotta watch out for transmissions that haven't been serviced, and suspension rust.

stickguy · April 2012

I saw that episode too (whatever that rare car show is called). Interesting story.

ateixeira · April 2012

I'll be the voice of reason and tell you to pass and get an early higher revving S2000 instead. You probably know every Honda mechanic in your region and probably can get parts nearly free.

Sure it has less character but performance is so much better you won't care once you pass the first curve.

And don't get me wrong - I love Alfas.

qbrozen · April 2012

Do your homework and find a shop that works on them and take over a box of doughnuts and get them talking.

Good luck with THAT. Alfa specialists are few and far between.

$10k really is top of the market for a spider. So it does need to be perfect. However, did you drive it? I think you may change your mind. Nice to look at and pleasant enough to drive, but as juice suggested, there are far better/faster/nicer top-down driving experiences to be had. Even a Miata will run circles around the spider.

BTW, this is coming from someone who "restored" and owned one for 10 years.

isellhondas · April 2012

I remember when I was in the tool business, the mechanics that worked on Alfa used to cuss them out constantly. I may call the guy and drive the car to see if it's something that makes sense.

When I was in the business, I used to avoid S-2000 customers. They were usually "strokes" who wanted to drive them but had no intension of buying.

I kept a VERY tight leash on them knowing an inexperienced driver could easilly get me killed. More than one salesperson had the bejeeses scared out of them when some idiot would do something stupid with an S-2000.

Used ones are usually modified and thrashed. As far as parts, I pay the same as anyone walking in the door. Still, they are Hondas and they really don't break or cause trouble.

fintail · April 2012

I was thinking the same...I bet non-trashed S2000s aren't getting any easier to find. They seem to attract two demographics with no middle ground - dumbarsed young people and careful engineer types.

dwynne · April 2012

I second the S2000 suggestion and I would run away from the Alpha

I used to have a Fiat X1/9, probably the most fun car I have ever owned (and I have owned a bunch of fun cars) - and probably the worst for reliability and rust.

I would get a later S2000 with a glass back window and even better get one new enough for VSA. The 2l cars revved higher and might be more fun, but the older cars were real tail happy and the 2.2l cars are easier to drive. I have an 08 and owned an 01 and an 05 - the 08 understeers a little too much but is much more "safe" to drive. Any S would be preferable to any Fiat or Alpha - I love them too, but they don't have the quality and safety of the S.

au1994 · April 2012

At the risk of torqueing a few of you off...I vote for the Alfa. It has something that the others don't...soul.

No its not screwed together like a Miata or S2000 (both of which are fine cars in their own right), no its not as fast as either of those and yes at some point it will leave you stranded and befuddle you and your mechanic, but at the end of the day you'll still have an Alfa. And that is what makes it a bucket list car for many of us.

lemmer · April 2012

Unfortunately, it is the very faint soul of a '60s car which was incredibly long in the tooth at the end. I suspect people will find soul in Miatas and S2000s in a couple decades. It is funny how that happens.

ateixeira · April 2012

The way people talk now about NA Miatas now that the NC is out...

...is the same way people talked about Alfas when the NA was out.

People are always nostalgic about previous iterations of roadsters. I bet the original owner of that Alfa waxed nostalgic about an Elan.

qbrozen · April 2012

Unfortunately, it is the very faint soul of a '60s car

bingo!

If you want an Alfa droptop, get something like a Duetto. The car continued to grow and soften over the decades while utilizing the same basic powertrain. Sure, the Bosch fuel injection made it more reliable, but that's where the transformation ended.

BTW, my spider never left me stranded. A very reliable car and drew a good deal of attention ... but the fact that I only drove it around 6k miles in 10 years should tell you something about how enjoyable it truly was.

isellhondas · April 2012

I once saw a tow truck that had pulled into a yard with a mangled, twisted piece of metal hanging on it's sling. I thought it was a motorcycle at first but when I looked closer, to my horror, I saw it was an X-19.

A father and his daughter had been killed in it an hour earlier. To this day, I can't look at an X-19 without thinking of that.

isellhondas · April 2012

I agree about the "soul" part.

" Soul" can get weary after several strandings. I know from MG experiences.

lemmer · April 2012

As I recall, the X1/9 was designed to meet some pretty strict safety guidelines, guidelines which didn't come to pass.

isellhondas · April 2012

Yeah, well, this one folded up like a beer can. When I was trying to figure out what it was I made the mistake of looking into the totally squashed passenger compartment.

I still think of that and you couldn't get me to ride in one!

stickguy · April 2012

depending on the accident, you could get any car to do that. Including an S2000.

isellhondas · April 2012

True but I'll take the S-2000 anytime!

dwynne · April 2012

I never was in an accident in mine, but as a new '79 would have not been a fun thing compared to modern cars. The VW bug-esqe empty front boot would probably fold up like an accordion in a head-on crash.

It hydroplaned at speed even with good tires, did great in the snow though. Alternator could not put out enough current to run the headlights (OK, so I had some over watt replacement Cibies or something) and the AC at the same time (AC kicked on the electric radiator fans) so driving at night with the AC on drained the battery. With the removable targa top, front and rear "trunks", and design the car really got a lot of attention. Every kid in my neighborhood ran to my driveway when I first brought it home from the dealer. Low porter alternator (that eventually failed), leaky AC, blown out exhaust gasket, fuel pump failed when hot (pin hole in diaphragm), rust and other issues. Got backed into once almost backed into many more times - folks could not see the car in their mirrors.

Still loved the car. Needed something bigger to carry more computer repair parts so I traded it for a new '83 GTI. That served me well and was traded for a Civic Si ('89?).

dwynne · April 2012

An older friend had a green TR6 that we gear heads lusted after in my teen years - we didn't know better. He said every time he got in the car it was not a question of "would anything be broken" but "what thing or things would not be working this time". Electrics by Lucas "the prince of darkness" was the main problem. Compared to that my X1/9 was rock solid

graphicguy · April 2012

Dwynne....many, many moons ago I drove a colleagues X1/9. Wasn't fast, but it was a blast to drive....an absolute great handler, light clutch and a silky shifter. Best part, hearing that "sexy" sounding 4 cyl wale right beind your ears.

I don't remember the model year (early 80's??????). But, I remember he was very frustrated and mad when the local dealer (maybe all of Fiat in the U.S.) closed up shop. He had loads of problems with it. And it truly was unsafe in the rain.

Personally, I 'd get an S2000 if one ever came across the block at a reasonable price. Then again, I'd prefer an early '70s Olds 442 in decent shape over that S2000.

au1994 · April 2012

I bet the original owner of that Alfa waxed nostalgic about an Elan.

I suspect you are 100% correct! Funny how time does that to things.

au1994 · April 2012

Yep. I had a 66 Mustang that left me on the side of the road a few times for busted radiator hoses, exploded battery, no brakes etc, etc. Cussed the car then and was 'happy' to see it go. Rare is the time now when I don't look back on the car and smile though.

stever · April 2012

I'm waxing nostalgic about my '89 4 banger Plymouth Voyager right now.

Actually I wax nostalgic about my old Bugs, but not enough to risk driving around in one, even though they were reliable (or easy to Band-Aid back together).

dwynne · April 2012

I think one reviewer said it sounded like "a large jar of angry bees behind your head". The small rear trunk was not well insulated and close to the engine so it was "the best place to carry home the pizza".

The worst problem I had was the pin hole in the fuel pump diaphragm because of how long it took to find and fix it. It would appear to vapor lock - drive it and stop for a short while and it would not restart. Leave it sitting with the engine cover open for a bit and it would start up fine. I figured it out myself stuck on the side of the road. I took the fuel line off the carb and stuck it in a found coke bottle while my passenger cranked the car - nothing. When I called to get the part the indy parts guy (or course) knew all about the problem! Dealer and indy Fiat guy did not. He said "check the oil, it will be too high, too thin, and will smell like gas". One new fuel pump and oil/filter change later it was fixed. I should have called the parts guy rather than the mechanics?

dwynne · April 2012

My first car (for $600) was a 1967 Mustang. Inline 6 with 3 on the floor and 100k plus on the clock. White with red vinyl seats. What a heap. Back then 100k was unusual so the car was pretty played out. I had to run 50 weight racing oil and hot plugs and huge coil so it would not foul plugs - but it still did. I left a smoke screen at most stop lights when I took off and carried tools and plugs to change them on the side of the road when the fouled out. I put a new clutch in it in my front yard on stands with my Mom (!) helping me lift the heavy tranny into place. No end to stuff I had to change out and fix on that car - a huge list.

When it finally expired I replaced it with a $300 Vega. Auto tranny with a sleeved replacement engine. Pretty decent car with one problem - some teeth missing from the flywheel. Engine stops with the bad teeth at the starter and you can't fire it up. Climb under the car with a giant wrench and hand crank it past the bad teeth and it fires right up.

Those were the good old days - NOT!

stever · April 2012

Heh, I had a '74 Volvo like that but it had an access port underneath. All it took was a big screwdriver to move the flywheel a notch or two and it'd crank right up.

Then the rubber belows would crack and you'd be in for a tow. :sick:

akangl · April 2012

We decided to take a road trip with the Sierra and the 24' trailer on Sunday to haul a friend's scout, about 500 miles round trip. Averaged 12.2 mpg through the mountains on the way there empty (trailer approx 4000 lbs) and 11.7 mpg on the way back loaded (trailer approx 8000 lbs).

It was a beautiful day, the truck pulled flawlessly (that allison transmission is very impressive), the trailer was quiet, but wow did that scout leak some gas, of course nobody knew that it did beforehand or we wouldnt have hauled it. Thankfully nothing bad happened and it was easy to push off the trailer when we got home since the risk of starting it inside was way too high.

I do believe we made the right choice in letting the F-150 go and moving up to a Sierra 2500HD duramax.

Next on the list is teaching my daughter to drive a manual transmission so she can have the Civic once we get moved and hubby can get a new car (I'm guessing he's thinking mustang or something along those lines).

fintail · April 2012

Local Caddy dealer has a fun lineup of used sedans on the lot, all wearing prices on the windshields.. First gen CTS - $9988, late 90s Infiniti Maxima - $9988 (!), late 90s normal Maxima - $9988 (!), 95-96 Camry - $9988 (!!!). I think someone doesn't understand pricing.

isellhondas · April 2012

That Caddy dealer has been through some very interesting times.

fintail · April 2012

I think the local octogenarian set must be keeping them going, along with the trophy wife Escalade crowd. I don't see what else they sell - usually a very small assortment on the lot - which is also difficult to access and doesn't have the most visible frontage. I kind of liked the old style building they had downtown, still sitting abandoned since the real estate collapse. I guess now being located in the cast off Hummer building doesn't help anything, either, when the Barrier brands and Lexus all now have fancy new digs.

au1994 · April 2012

95-96 Camry for $10k? Holy Smokes...where's my checkbook!! :P

anonymousposts · April 2012

Still can't make up our minds. Too many choices, yet none of them seem exactly right.

Option 1: Keep driving the RAV4
Option 2: Toyota Prius ... great gas mileage but they get expensive fast when you add options
Option 3: Lexus CT200h ... more expensive than the Prius but its nicer and more of a real car.
Option 4: Used 3 series. Local dealer was willing to take $12,000 off a demo 328i with sport, nav, premium, etc.

Right now I am leaning towards just keeping the RAV4.

stickguy · April 2012

when in doubt, always better (and cheaper!) to just keep what you got until you figure out what to do. Much better idea than buying a Prius you will detest, and trying to get out of in in 3 months. Or less.

nyccarguy · April 2012

There is NOTHING in the world like a 3 series! Take the demo w/ sport @ $12K off sticker!

Happy birthday to my 2001 Prelude Type SH! I took delivery of it brand new 10 years ago today!

ateixeira · April 2012

I was going to laugh about you comparing a 3 series to a Prius but I can't - my wife and I test drove a 3 series around 2002 or so and decided to buy a beach condo instead.

That was the down payment, anyway.

The Bimmer was quicker (condo moves only with the earth's rotation) but the condo had a lot more room for the family.

isellhondas · April 2012

Ah, yes...the SH! The Preludes nobody understood.

The ATTS system was one of Honda's bright ideas like 4 wheel steering that seemed to answer a question that nobody asked.

If you had asked a salesperson to fully explain how the ATTS system worked you would have been met with blank stares. I even had a ride along with a professional demonstator from Honda and for the life of me, I failed to see any great benefit.

Oh, if you were the type of person who constantly pushed a car to it's limits around corners, you "might" feel a difference but it was wasted on the masses.

4WS was another gimmick that Honda tried to impress people with that never caught on or was appreciated.

The Preludes of that era were great cars that simply didn't sell. That coupe market had pretty much run it's course by that time. People didn't like the rear visibility or the cramped back seat.

I liked them a lot although I wouldn't have paid extra for an SH. When it's time for a new clutch, having ATTS makes replacement a nightmare of a job and an expensive one!

So Happy Birthday to a great car! Hang onto it!

ateixeira · April 2012

The problem with that segment is that is was very fickle, sort of a "Flavor of the Month" segment, where hot cars would fizzle very quickly. It was a big risk to invest and then watch sales taper off quickly as newer competitors would come out.

I'm talking about the Corrado, Prelude, Eclipse, Probe, etc. One casualty after another.

Looks like even the slow selling Eclipse will die.

fintail · April 2012

Seriously, it is sitting on the lot, goofy aftermarket hubcaps and all, with a $9988 sticker, right now in 2012. It's on their website for the same price. Trolling for people who have been living in a cave since 2001, I guess.

On the car buyer subject, my friend with the Accord V6 he thinks is dying is getting restless again - the car has developed some kind of high speed sputter, and he is sure the end is near. He's mentioned a Prius C as a replacement...I don't know if the slowness will kill him.

au1994 · April 2012

I don't know if the slowness will kill him.

Trying to drive in Atlanta traffic, it would!

nyccarguy · April 2012

The ATTS is so seamless that it is undetectable on public roads. Take a couple of hairpin turns with 10 mph speed advisories and you'll find out how good it is. Everything I ever read about the 5th generation Prelude is that you really can't benefit from the ATTS unless you are on a racetrack. When I was shopping (and the Prelude had been out of production for 6 months), the only 5 speeds left laying around were Type SH models (plus I liked the wheels and standard rear spoiler anyway :shades: ).

I've mentioned it before here (and also in my READERS RIDES submission) that I thought I was going to faint when I got the estimate to replace my clutch (52,000 miles). $2000. The ATTS unit had to be removed & re-installed (extra 5 hours of labor) in order for the clutch to be replaced.

It is a great car & I do plan to hang on to it. Thank-you for the nice compliment.

isellhondas · April 2012

The techs in our shop hated doing an SH clutch. They said the labor rates weren';t enough for what is a hard, miserable job.

We once had one towed in half torn apart when some clueless shop tried to do the job without removing the ATTS unit. They gave up and it became our job to find all of the missing nuts and bolts and figure out what the other shop had butchered.

I'm sure the customer paid dearly and for good reason!

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