Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stever · June 2012

Who knows how reporters think. :-)

ateixeira · June 2012

I was told I might get a call, we'll see.

Generally, what I'll say is that small cars used to be pretty terrible. That's definitely not the case today.

You used to drive small cars because you had to. Now you might actually want to.

isellhondas · June 2012

So, yesterday I took our recently acquired 1997 BMW 325i 'vert in for an oil change and a general lookover. It's a well respected BMW indy not far from where we live.

I mentioned that the airbag light is always on and to give it a quick looking over since we hadn't owned it long.

I feared the worst...a long laundry list of things that they felt should be done.

Well, I was wrong!

He simplyu reset the airbag light and he told me that it "might" need a seatbelt latch and to bring it back if the light comes back on.

He didn't like my top radiator hose because it's a dreaded "aftermarket" hose. He said "It should be OK"

He said my valve cover gasket was "starting to seep a bit" but to leave it alone.

Front brake pads down to 4MM. Should be good for another 10K they way we drive the car.

He pronounced the BMW to be in "great shape" and said he couldn't believe it has 149,000 miles on it.

I'm still in shock!

tjc78 · June 2012

Obviously an honest guy. It wouldn't be hard for many mechanics to "find" many things wrong with any car approaching 150K. Sounds like you picked a good one.

jayrider · June 2012

15 year old BMW's with 150k plus miles just went to the top of my car shopping list. E- surfing starts now.

stickguy · June 2012

I am still amazed at the new leaf my wife has turned over. She is happy when I pull onto a lot now, and wanting to test drive, " since we are there".

so, got haircuts and had dinner after work, then stopped at the Ford and Subaru dealer. Just to see the 2 models she had pretty much eliminate, just because of the brand.

Ford guy had a couple new Escapes. Actually pretty nice, and she liked it more than I expected. Other than the blue oval, that is still a problem. Drove nice, pretty roomy. A few small things that bugged her, but no deal breakers. Pricey beast though. But, overall, I think just a bit overdone (styling in and out), maybe just to young buyer slanted? In any case, I think it is off the list.

Then stopped at Subaru. Sat in an outback on the floor. Quite roomy. Did not like the colors (white over tan cloth, tacky stuff.) I could not see getting a cloth model (and this was a premium).

Oh, anyone want a stick shift outback without a moonroof? I know where you can find one (the showroom car was a stick).

Anyway, the salesdude pulled up what we were interested in to check out and test drive. A dark (indigo) blue limited with tan leather. Man, huge difference. This was very sharp looking, and the interior was light years better (think, Camry CE to Lexus ES difference). Lots of features on a limited too. really pretty well loaded.

And, this was a 2.5 CVT model. Probably best to try that first!

stickguy · June 2012

after playing with the controls, the sales guy exited and let us take it by ourselves. Nice when you get to do that. I drove briefly, then turned it over to the wife, since it would be her car. I liked the comfort, and the steering seemed good. Soft ride, and no sports car, but nice cruising and better for old bones (since this would have to carry us into (OMG!) out 60s.

The CVT did not annoy me. I could tell it was different at times, but only because I was watching for it. I doubt my wife would ever notice. or care.

Seemed pretty peppy. Not a rocket, but no slug. Should be more than fine for us, and MPG ratings of 22-29 are not shabby. So, I think I have changed my mind, and would go with the 4 cyl. Being cheaper just a bonus!

Wifey liked it much more than I expected (or that she did). It is certainly still on the list. Not quite as "cool" as the RDX, but also probably at least 8K cheaper real world, when you factor in AWD and the big discount available on the outback.

Oh, the outback was certainly more carlike (longer/lower), but quite roomy especially in the back seat, and lots of cargo length.

Though the wife did get hung up a tad on how it looked like a station wagon!

so, not sure what the wife wants to do, but the Sube did skew the equation a bit.

ateixeira · June 2012

They've Escaped out to the public, eh? I'll have to tell my sister, though she's getting cold feet and just asked me to recommend a mechanic to service her old car.

How did a similar Escape price out against an Outback Limited?

What was the MPG like? Guess I could look that up. Sis would want the fuel miser.

ateixeira · June 2012

It's funny, reading the CCB buying sagas is far more interesting than anything on TV!

So you liked the CVT? Surprisingly, I liked the one in the Impreza. They get a bad rap, but not all are created equal. I didn't like the one in the Lancer rental I had in Puerto Rico, but the Impreza's was better. Maybe it was the whole powertrain package, AWD plus more HP/torque.

I think enthusiasts associate CVT with slow hybrids and that's how they get that bad rap.

Real world MPG is pretty good, fueleconomy.gov users average over 25mpg, and that's a big AWD wagon. At 80mph it's spinning at just 2000rpm, something like that. That's crazy-tall gearing.

My Miata in 6th is going about 45mph at that RPM.

You read the Subaru threads so you probably know the 2013 models will get the FB block, right?

qbrozen · June 2012

15 year old BMW's with 150k plus miles just went to the top of my car shopping list. E- surfing starts now.

Hey, I got ya covered! Just wait a couple more weeks till my mr2 sells and the 540 is all yours.

qbrozen · June 2012

Where was it that a host posted some edmunds list about cars that are as expensive used than when they were new? On a whim, I decided to look up what 2011 Mazda2s are going for. I was quite impressed to find that these 2-year-old cars with 30k miles were fetching $11k at auction when they were just $14k new. Thought that was damned good .... until I looked up the Honda Fit.

New 2011 Fit was $15k new. Auction value today for one with 30k miles? $15k!! So those cars will have a street value of $17-$18k!! What can i get a new 2012 for? $16k. Boy, lemme think on that....

:confuse: :confuse: :confuse:

stever · June 2012

Some New Cars Now Cheaper Than Used Cars.

And yep, both the Mazda2 and the Fit are on the list.

More fun than TV eh Juice? Time to a pitch a reality show to the networks. :shades:

ateixeira · June 2012

For sure, but what would we call it?

You bought a what?

I think prices will drop on the fuel misers if gas prices go down. In other words, it's a short-term phenomenon.

lemmer · June 2012

Gas prices are down recently. If you mean really down, I don't think those days are ever coming back.

stickguy · June 2012

I did not drive the OB extensively, but in our short drive it did not seem noticable. Besides, i hate most ATs anyway, so the bar was set low!

The escape 1.6 was rated pretty good. 25/32, something like that?

but pricey. MSRP on the SE with roof was 28,000 and change, and the SEL was over 33K! And those were both FWD, add another $1,800 for AWD.

the 2.5i limited I drove was ~ $31,700 MSRP, but Fitzmall quoted just about 10% off. So figure 28-29K depending on options. Pretty strong price, and a lot of content for the money.

The Wife did like the pictures of the upcoming Santa Fe. Too bad that is not out yet. She also does not think she will ever actually decide (well, maybe if I tell her money is absolutely no object, and jsut get the RDX!)

I do know that 2013 is getting refreshed. Is that basically a bigger version of the new 2.0 engine in the imprezza, along with a revised CVT? Anything special beyond that?

i always like the new factor, but if the car itself is pretty much the same other than the engine I can be swayed by a huge discount, since after all, I am cheap.

ronsteve · June 2012

Probably still a pricey bird, as we have talked about silly money on Subarus, but damn... only 69K miles on this one, which is really low for any Subie being sold at that age...

http://www.pursuitauto.com/detail-2005-subaru-legacy-2_5_gt_limited-used-8806117- .html

fezo · June 2012

Oh, I like that! Good thing for me I can't do a thing about it now....

stickguy · June 2012

worked up a list for the wife to try and nail this down (she is suffering from choices overload!)

Looks like we are set on a compact to smaller mid-size CUV type vehicle.

Short list is down to 4 (3 available now, 1 pending.)

2013 Acura RDX (new design)
Honda CRV
Subaru Outback (2.5i)
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe (Turbo most likely).

Haven't been able to track down the guy I know that (at least used to) work for Hyundai to see if I can get a sneak peek, since that isn't supposed to be out until about September.

so either she has to wait (originally supposed to do this toward year end, but she has the fever!) or pick something else.

nyccarguy · June 2012

That is A LOT of dough for a 7 year old car with low miles (less than 10K per year), but like Q says, probably correct. I'd just LOVE to hear the line that the UCM gave the previous owner: "Oh man, that's a wagon with a stick? Nobody wants those. The most I can give you is $11K. Could've been $13K if it was an automatic."

Then in the ad he puts: "Rare 5 Speed wagon..."

qbrozen · June 2012

It looks like that exact one went through auction in Dallas on 5/23 and got an above average bid of $13,800. At leat they are trying to compensate with a relatively low asking price.

They transported it all the way back to IL because it was at 69,178 when it crossed the block. So figure they only stand to maybe make $1k on it.

ronsteve · June 2012

Q, you are the man! And that shows it is a very correct price, however big the chunk of change is.

Those GT wagons with the stick are definitely rare, as they were only made that one year... a shame I probably can't do anything about it either. What'ya figure he paid to transport it from Dallas to Chicago?

ateixeira · June 2012

For the price of an SEL AWD you may as well get the Acura, then.

$28 is not bad for the SE with moonroof. I'll let my sister know if she gets bit by the new car bug again.

Then again she wants AWD, so that's nearly $30k. I wonder if Ford priced it ambitiously, building in room for rebates later?

The Forester got the FB25 engine first. Impreza got the smaller FB20. So the Outback is actually getting the engine from the Forester.

Displacement and output for the FB25 and old EJ25 are similar, but the big change is that the coolant no longer flows through the gaskets. The head and block now use separate lines, so no more coolant leaks on the head gaskets, that's basically impossible now.

Also - FB = timing chain. The EJ has a belt. Ask my sister why that matters, as she's looking at a big bill for that service that prompted her car shopping in the first place!

ateixeira · June 2012

Some body go buy that unicorn.

The turbo wagon/manual combo was only available in MY2005, one single model year.

qbrozen · June 2012

eh, depends if he has his own truck. But figure it had to be a few hundred bucks at least. Add in the auction fees (and, no, I have no idea what those are but I've been led to believe a few hundred), detail it, etc.

isellhondas · June 2012

If it's the same car, they probably won't make anything if they sell it that cheap.

Freight to truck it to Chicago would be at least 500.00. Add a detail and a complete mechanical inspection to that number. Assuming they found nothing wrong during the inspection, that 1000.00 profit would be gone!

stickguy · June 2012

thanks. Do you know if they are making many other changes? Or mostly the drivetrain?

I need to shoot my friend that works at SOA headquarters (always good to know a VIP!) and see what he says.

but, it sounds like for a LT relationship, it is worth getting the 2013, even though I am either going to have to wait a bit for prices to come down, or just pay more?

roadburner · June 2012

He simply reset the airbag light and he told me that it "might" need a seatbelt latch and to bring it back if the light comes back on.

My 1995 3 Series had the identical issue; I've had to reset the light twice in 17 years.

He didn't like my top radiator hose because it's a dreaded "aftermarket" hose. He said "It should be OK"

The reason he doesn't like aftermarket hoses is because the BMW OEM hoses last forever- the above mentioned 3er has 132,000 miles on it and all of the coolant hoses are original and look brand new. Ditto for my 137,000 mile 2004 X3.

He said my valve cover gasket was "starting to seep a bit" but to leave it alone.

A fairly common issue on the later BMW sixes; when you start smelling burning oil it's time to finally change it.

Front brake pads down to 4MM. Should be good for another 10K they way we drive the car.

When you do change them, go with Centric Posi Quiet Ceramic pads- less than $60 front, $50 rear. No dust and perfect for your application.

He pronounced the BMW to be in "great shape" and said he couldn't believe it has 149,000 miles on it.

I'm still in shock!

What did I tell you? Stick with the 6 cyl(or 4 cyl) in a RWD 3 or 5 Series and you'll be pleasantly surprised by the reliability and running costs. Glad it got a clean bill of health!!!

kyfdx · June 2012

Speaking of 4-banger Bimmers.. check this one out:

318ti

A little pricy and high miles, but check out the options!

ronsteve · June 2012

So from $13,8 at the block in Dallas to $15,9 ask in Chicago, sounds like a skinny deal to begin with. But if you look at the website, I'd guess this guy knows his market. He's got 19 cars listed, and 14 of them are turbo Subarus.

roadburner · June 2012

Wow, my son would LOVE it. I wouldn't pay more than $5k, and that's assuming the "linkage issue" isn't a transmission problem in disguise. I'd steal the M3 wheels and give him my 16" round spokes for summer and my 15" round spokes for winter...

kyfdx · June 2012

Yeah.. if it's as nice as it looks in the ad, I'd say it should bring $4300-$5000..

Did all of that M-stuff come on a '98? Don't ever recall those wheels on a 318ti...

I think my son's best friend is going to take a look at it...

roadburner · June 2012

Yes, the M Technic suspension and body kit came on all Sports from 1996 on. The wheels are off an E36 M3, however.

isellhondas · June 2012

Appreciate the tips!

Yeah, his comment was.." It looks like the former owner took good care of it? The former owner was a professional guy who had the means and he told he he nevr skimped on anything but he (like me) wasn't one to keep receipts.

What impressed me is after 149,000 miles, there are no rattles, no cowl shake and the doors and trunk lid close with a reassuring "thunk".

It does need a bit of interior repair...not bad and the plastic rear window is getting a bit hard to see out of. Other than that, it looks like a two year old car.

It really moves too!

I think we will keep it around for awhile!

isellhondas · June 2012

Yeah, but do those options really add a lot of value after all of those years and miles?

I would think that the 4 cyl models would be a lot less desirable than the sixes but you guys know more than I do when it comes to BMW's.

When I was waiting for them to change my oil, a lady walked in complaining that her oil light was on in her X-5. " Is this a bad thing" she asked.

They checked it out and it was THREE quarts low! This was on a V-8 X5.

They couldn't find any leaks and they told her to keep an eye on it.

Yikes!!

qbrozen · June 2012

Well, a lot of dealers do it, so there must be something to it. $2k over auction price isn't exactly unheard of. I've bought a couple of cars at $1500 over. If he came down off that number, then I'd be impressed. You and I are thinking along the same lines...as long as they found nothing wrong, they are into it for $14500-$15k.

isellhondas · June 2012

If a store can't make 1500.00 or more on a used car after all of their expenses, it's hardly worth the trouble.

And, often, they DO find something that their buyer didn't know about or an ABS light decides to come on or worse.

It takes a lot of skill to be a great Used Car Manager!

qbrozen · June 2012

I think maybe a big name new car dealer with a used lot is a different story. There definitely are lots of private lots who aren't making that kind of profit on their cars.

nyccarguy · June 2012

Isellhondas - I'm really glad your BMW checks out ok with almost 150K on the clock. Have fun with it this summer.

stickguy · June 2012

Heard from my contacts. The new 2013 outback sounds like the winner if we decide on that. Pricing (corporate deal) will be the same. I am sure some dealers will blow out the leftovers, but the wife will be very particular on the color, etc. So would probably pay the little extra to get the new model. Tighter steering/suspension too, along with new engine.

and he also recommended the 2.5 engine. good enough power, and excellent MPG for the size. And cheaper!

New models will hit the end of June, so supply ramped up by July.

I should also get a sneak peek at the new model Santa Fe. They will arrive at the dealer in limited volume in August, with normal supplies hitting in September. But, my contact expects to have one to drive in the next week or 2. That will be nice, so we won't have to wait to decide if that is what we want.

I doubt after seeing the new stuff we will go with a killer deal on the old style.

stickguy · June 2012

If you want a small CUV and don't care about modern, the deals on 2012 Escapes are going to be killer. When we drove the new one, the guy said they had over 80 in stock. They are going to be blowing those babies out soon.

tjc78 · June 2012

I could never buy a leftover if the new model is a full redo. To me it would look "old" the minute I drove it off the lot.

I remember getting my 03 Avalon (which was one year away from a new model) and the minute the early 05's hit I felt like I was driving a 5 year old car.

Like anything I'm sure there can be significant saving and plusses. I know a guy who bought one of the last leftover Explorers since he wanted the truck based model and not the new one.

corvette · June 2012

It may have been three quarts low, but the V8 holds a lot of oil. 7-8 quarts, so there was still some left in the sump. Still a bad thing, though! :lemon:

andre1969 · June 2012

I could never buy a leftover if the new model is a full redo. To me it would look "old" the minute I drove it off the lot.

Sometimes even when it's not a full redo, I carry that same sentiment. For instance, I'll look up used Chargers on occasion, and it seems some good deals can be had on the 2010 and older models. But, the 2011+ is such a big improvement (better base V-6, better economy, much improved interior) that I figure it's worth it to just get a newer one.

Since I like the Altima, I've thought about getting a leftover once the 2013 comes out. But here again, the 2013 seems like a pretty big improvement. I'm not so crazy about the style of it, but sometimes it takes awhile for a new car to grow on me.

isellhondas · June 2012

The small private lots tend to buy the cars the big stores don't want. Every Monday we would wholesale around 20 cars to these guys who would do a silent bid on them.

Not all were "bad" cars. Just makes and models we didn't want, high milers etc. They do minimal recon on them and probably don't make much on the units they sell.

A lot of those guys don't last long in business either.

stickguy · June 2012

for something like the escape, even though roughly the same size and doing the same job, it is a radically different car. But, some people may prefer the old one, but functionally they are the same. The Explorer though, whole different animal.

The Sube is a tougher call. Will look the same, so just like getting any other next years model (with the little year to year tweaks), since the big changes are things you won't really see (and not always notice).

I have heard enough from the guys here (and my internal contact) to decide the '13 will be the better idea if we want one.

The other consideration is availability. If they aren't making '12s any more, you might get a good $ deal on a leftover, but you will have to settle. Easier to wait until the pipeline is full, then just spec out and wait for exactly what I want.

nyccarguy · June 2012

Leftovers are great if you want a smokin deal, especially if you are leasing. Who cares about the new model when the leftover is only yours for 2 - 3 years.

I got my current leftover 2011 328xi for a fantastic price & I couldn't be happier with the car.

tjc78 · June 2012

I can see your point, however, only rare cases are leases on a leftover a good deal.

I got my 12 LaCrosse in Oct 11 and it would have been more to lease a 2011 leftover than the new model due to the residual being much lower.

isellhondas · June 2012

That is correct. Late in the model year leases are usualy NOT a good deal because of shrinking residuals.

Some people think they will save SO MUCH money by waiting for a leftover and I have to say that isn't usually the case.

There are ALWAYS people who for whatever reason perfer the outgoing models and as a result they are willing to pay for them as inventories shrink down to nothing.

Some people think it's best to come early in the day, late at night, on holidays, etc. They think there is a magic time to buy a car and there really isn't.

When the lots are overstuffed with cars, THAT is the best time!

au1994 · June 2012

There is a place like that around here. They have late model cars but they all have high, high miles. I.E. 08 Buick Lacrosse w/107k miles.

They also carry new Suzuki's.

They've made it at least 3 years or so.

anonymousposts · June 2012

We have had the Prius for about 6 wks and have already put 5800 miles on it. So far, it has been to Florida and on a week-long trip from Atlanta to Maine. We consistently get over 50 MPG and I'm still surprised at how much I like it. It made it 2200 miles including a trip up a dirt mountain road due to Gee's navigating skills.

We are also closing up on a year with the Tiguan. Very happy with it as well. We might be cured of our CCB for a while.

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