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Thanks very much for your sharing of info on this matter, it has saved me much time in going back & forth with the dealer because it's an intermittent problem which I could not bring into them to show what is happening.
PF Flyer
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Automotive News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
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I've been using 91octane from my local 76 gas station.
Dave
Krzys
If you bought one, what did you pay?
Thanks!
Wait, are you wondering whether you should buy a better intercooler or whether you need to add one? I assume you mean better, 'cause how could you buy an MS6 or any turboed car and not know that it already has an intercooler.
Anyway, there's much discussion about the perceived inadequacy of the MS6 top-mounted intercooler. Run another google search. But as far as I know the aftermarket suppliers are still working on making one available. When they are available, they will reportedly be expensive and mounted on the front instead of the top of the engine.
Same for info on the CAI. Run a google search. At least two suppliers make them currently, CP-E and AEM, and those who have installed them seem pretty happy with them. You'll get a lot more intake noise, so you might lose a little of the "sleeper" advantage when you come up next to a potential "victim".
CP-E CAI vs stock HP.
CP-E CAI vs stock torque.
The stock intake draws air from behind the left headlamp inside the engine compartment, and is also somewhat restrictive. The CAI draws cooler air from behind the left foglamp and is much less restrictive than the factory airbox.
Even if the CAI doesn't cool off the intake air temperature significantly, the lower restriction to the intake improves performance.
Compressing air heats it significantly. It is more important to cool copmpressed air (via intercooler) than to cool air before compression.
Krzys
PS I checked web site and I suspect these are plots for Mazdaspeed6. I am still worried about vested interest of the manufacturer.
You sure those aren't chipped as well?
-juice
Sorry if I didn't get the meaning behind your statement.
Interested in your explanation.
click here to see a photo of the intake
The point I was making is that a CAI can provide a benefit to a turbocharged car (in this case, the Mazdaspeed6).
My English as second language shows up ;-)
"vested interest" - company selling a CAI is interested in tweaking results to show bigger gains that(if) there really are.
Run one test with hood (bonnet ?) closed.
Run second test with hood opened and ice stacked on intercooler.
Add a fan to force air over the engine compartment and you have a few more variables (speed of fan, direction, etc). My first two scenarios are extreme but there are more discreet ways of tweaking results.
Just like atexeira noticed. Big gains from CAI alone.
Does it mean that stock is that bad? It would mean that Mazda does not know how to design proper intake.
Krzys
No, it means that Mazda selected an intake design that is either cheaper to manufacture and install, or that their design reduces noise and is easier for the average car owner (i.e. non-enthusiast) to maintain. Every CAI I've ever seen requires careful, periodic washing. The factory intake uses an easy-to-replace paper filter. Clearly not every component on a vehicle is designed to make it more powerful. The aftermarket exists for the enthusiast.
I think that you are mixing two things:
CAI is not washable air filter (oil ?). CAI may exist with original air filter.
So the data is for less restrictive air filter and CAI.
What are the chances that air filter does not filter as good as it should?
Krzys
PS Do not forget that manufacturer of such system has easy way out. If engine fails it was user who did not clean and oil the filter properly.
Mazdaspeed buyers might be enthusiasts but we're not buying track cars. Sure a CAI may exist with the original filter but does it ever? Yes, the data is for a less restrictive air filter integrated into the CAI. An oiled foam filter should do a great job cleaning the air since it is standard in a lot of applications involving dirty/dusty conditions such as off-road motorcycles. Sure, a manufacturer can always deny warranty coverage by claiming improper maintenance, but the burden is on them to prove that improper maintenance caused the failure. Of course, everything has already gone to hell when it get's that point, so you take a risk whenever you make a mod.
Yes, the driving enthusiast, not the maintenance enthusiast. I would challenge you to find any factory-spec "enthusiast" car that cannot be made more powerful with aftermarket mods such as a CAI or different exhaust. The manufacturers always make tradeoffs between performance, reliability, comfort, and price. I don't see how the MS6 is any different in that regard. If the MS6 had come with an open-element CAI that maximized performance but allowed too much intake noise (from the turbo or bypass valve), some customer would complain, or some magazine reviewer would say "The MS6 engine is too loud". It's better to err on the safer side, and let an "enthusiast" decide if he wants to sacrifice noise for performance. Honestly, I think that a majority of MS6 buyers will probably more than happy with out-of-the-box performance. 274HP/280TQ is nothing to complain about.
I think that you are mixing two things:
CAI is not washable air filter (oil ?). CAI may exist with original air filter.
I have never seen a CAI that retains the factory plumbing and filter that exceeds the performance advantages of a CAI with a washable filter element. If you can find a link to one for any car, please enlighten me.
sounds like an oxymoron to me. If its an open-element under the hood, than its not a CAI. If its got a heat shield, its not longer an open-element. I suppose if you piped to the outside of the car and had the open element sticking out the front of your car, that would qualify. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
So I is a CAI a good idea for to buy or are the gains not noticeable? What about Magnaflows CatBack?
Also another question I had that no one responded to... is anyone finding 93 octane? I just filling up with 91 octane from 76gas stations.
Thanks
An "open-element" warm-air intake is one that's located inside the engine compartment, shielded or unshielded, such as this one:
Other open-element intakes located in the engine compartment are not sold or marketed as "cold-air" intakes. They're given some other name. An "open-element" cold-air intake is one that's located outside of the engine compartment, such as this one:
Although I didn't know someone would actually put that setup on their car. I'd hate to drive through some deep puddles with THAT! I know you can install a water bypass valve, but I still wouldn't trust that particular location. I'd like to shield it somehow, personally.
oh, and, by the way:
Other open-element intakes located in the engine compartment are not sold or marketed as "cold-air" intakes.
I've seen plenty of open-air engine-compartment-located filters marketed as "CAI." Most likely not by any reputable companies ... but you get what you pay for.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am interested in a MS6 and the dealer has one demo with 9,000 kms (yep, I am in Canada). It is cloth and the MSRP is $36,000 (the one I actually want - base). What do you think the dicounted price should be? Any special approaches I could take to get the best price.
Thanks,
Michael
Yeah, but fortunately that photo features a CAI installed on an SUV, so if the owner doesn't drive it off-road or through deep water, it'll probably be fine.
The MS6 cold-air intakes that are now available have the filter element behind the front bumper, in front of the "vents" in the left front wheel well, not inside the engine compartment. This location makes the filter more difficult to service, and as you and others have observed, more vulnerable to deep water.
-juice
I test drove a fully loaded one and they only wanted $29,000 and said he go a fair amount lower.
I have to admit I was pretty unimpressed. While the turbo is virtually free from lag its not a quick car by any means and for something with 280lbs or torque doesn't pull hard either. That combined with a gear shift that feel like its about to break at any moment. This is another zoomless Mazda
Handling is nice and crisp
Most of the dealers in CT would not do this deal, only one after much bickering and negotiating.
I'd hazard a guess that the demo model you drove had regular unleaded fuel in the tank. (Huge dealer mistake!) The PCM retards timing, reduces power, and may even limit throttle to 33% max, when low-octane fuel is used. So, yeah, the MS6 won't feel very fast at all under those conditions. In fact, it will be slower than a regular Mazda6 with the 3.0L V6!
Yeah, I was wondering if the test drive that guy took was on 87 octane. I know from experience it feels like a real pig (instead of a pig on steroids and amphetamines when you've got 93 octane ;-)), since my first tank from the dealer was 87. Way, way slower than a Mazda 6 with V-6.
I can only get 91 octane and this car pulls just as much or more than my wife's Magnum with 340HP hemi V8.
HDD
Another example is a co-worker who has a 2004 GTO with performance exhaust, headers, and computer chip. He was more than impressed with the quickness and of course the handling. This guy also has a 02' TransAM Firebrid on slicks.
Which I could fine some 93octance to see how much of a difference from 91octane...
Questions:
Should I get the extended warr.? I have a few days to decide to get it at the low price of $800. With the limited # produced it might be a good idea.
Would the ant. mod void the warr.?
Looking into the cold air and blow off valve. Is this worth doing? Will it help or hurt the engine in the long run?
Thanks
Also ordered shop manuals for about $110.
I asked the mechanic at the dealership and he said he recommended regular oil with changed every 3k. I have read where people are using synthetic oil but from personal exp. with other cars. I could for sure tell a difference but after some oil changes down the road I started seeing smoke from the exhaust at start up. This is from using it with 3 other different cars. Plus it is so expensive!
PF Flyer
Host
Automotive News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
Seems like a small amount to protect your investment, and yes absolutely this is a new powertrain.
-juice
Daughter bought brand new RX8 yesterday. Sure wish they would have put the speaker system in the MS6 that they have in the RX8. Her stereo sounds SO much better. That has been a disappointment. The sound system. Also, why in the world is the nice rear view mirror an extra? Still need to get that installed.
Our mazda dealership sold 26 Mazda 3's yesterday. Crazy!.. Took forever to get the RX8 detailed because the poor guys were exhausted
So is this the case? Anyone know for sure?
Thanks,
HDD