MAZDASPEED Mazda6

artour · May 2006

Well, more intresting info on the turbo problem. I talked to the service mgr and he was dubious at best about the whys and wherefores. His attitude was "if he didn't hear it from Mazda, it had no credibility". But, he was willing to check it out and did find that in fact the info was correct and he is getting the upgrade disc sent to him from Mazda so that he can reflash the eprom this Thursday.
Thanks very much for your sharing of info on this matter, it has saved me much time in going back & forth with the dealer because it's an intermittent problem which I could not bring into them to show what is happening.

PF_Flyer · May 2006

Calling all 6 owners!

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The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

xplorx4 · May 2006

Glad you got taken care of! Now I just have to find time myself to get my MS6 over to the dealer for the same thing! I get the powerloss about 1 out of every 6 times I drive the car, or about twice a week.

m3nmsp6 · May 2006

Has anyone found a gas station with 93octane in L.A. or anywhere else for that matter?
I've been using 91octane from my local 76 gas station.

importknight84 · May 2006

just got my black MS6 on wednesday and i have to say that it is the fastest car i have ever driven. it has everything i wanted in a car, from the turbo to the AWD. It's sporty as well as it is luxurious. Overall a blast to drive.

importknight84 · May 2006

i've noticed that the engine heats up pretty fast. is it wise to get an intercooler? i'm thinking about getting a cold air intake system, anyone have any suggestions?

qddave · May 2006

Open your hood. See that big grilly looking thing on top? Mazda must have been reading your mind. The big bulge in the hood of the MS6 and upcoming MS3 is there to create room for the intercooler.

Dave

krzyss · May 2006

turbo/super charged car. Mazda needs better air flow around intercooler. But sorry no scoops were allowed.

Krzys

vsroman · May 2006

Did anyone buy one? It seems as though this could be an expensive car to fix after the bumper-to-bumper runs out...

If you bought one, what did you pay?

Thanks!

seanwms6 · May 2006

"i've noticed that the engine heats up pretty fast. is it wise to get an intercooler? i'm thinking about getting a cold air intake system, anyone have any suggestions?"

Wait, are you wondering whether you should buy a better intercooler or whether you need to add one? I assume you mean better, 'cause how could you buy an MS6 or any turboed car and not know that it already has an intercooler.

Anyway, there's much discussion about the perceived inadequacy of the MS6 top-mounted intercooler. Run another google search. But as far as I know the aftermarket suppliers are still working on making one available. When they are available, they will reportedly be expensive and mounted on the front instead of the top of the engine.

Same for info on the CAI. Run a google search. At least two suppliers make them currently, CP-E and AEM, and those who have installed them seem pretty happy with them. You'll get a lot more intake noise, so you might lose a little of the "sleeper" advantage when you come up next to a potential "victim".

xplorx4 · May 2006

Dyno results and customer feedback indicate otherwise.
CP-E CAI vs stock HP.
CP-E CAI vs stock torque.

The stock intake draws air from behind the left headlamp inside the engine compartment, and is also somewhat restrictive. The CAI draws cooler air from behind the left foglamp and is much less restrictive than the factory airbox.

Even if the CAI doesn't cool off the intake air temperature significantly, the lower restriction to the intake improves performance.

krzyss · May 2006

with turbo/super charger?

Compressing air heats it significantly. It is more important to cool copmpressed air (via intercooler) than to cool air before compression.

Krzys

PS I checked web site and I suspect these are plots for Mazdaspeed6. I am still worried about vested interest of the manufacturer.

ateixeira · May 2006

Those graphs seem optimistic - 15 hp from an intake? Just how bad is the stock design?

You sure those aren't chipped as well?

-juice

seanwms6 · May 2006

Can't be chipped 'cause no one makes one yet.

m3nmsp6 · May 2006

What do you mean by "plots"?
Sorry if I didn't get the meaning behind your statement.

Interested in your explanation.

xplorx4 · May 2006

The graphs ("plots") shown above are from dyno runs on the Mazdaspeed6. Yes, the turbo compresses and heats the intake air (which is also cooled somewhat by the TMIC), but the combination of an open-element filter and the location makes the difference.

click here to see a photo of the intake

The point I was making is that a CAI can provide a benefit to a turbocharged car (in this case, the Mazdaspeed6).

krzyss · May 2006

plot - I used it as a drawing, probably from a device that can draw shuch nice things, a plotter.
My English as second language shows up ;-)
"vested interest" - company selling a CAI is interested in tweaking results to show bigger gains that(if) there really are.
Run one test with hood (bonnet ?) closed.
Run second test with hood opened and ice stacked on intercooler.
Add a fan to force air over the engine compartment and you have a few more variables (speed of fan, direction, etc). My first two scenarios are extreme but there are more discreet ways of tweaking results.

Just like atexeira noticed. Big gains from CAI alone.
Does it mean that stock is that bad? It would mean that Mazda does not know how to design proper intake.

Krzys

xplorx4 · May 2006

Does it mean that stock is that bad? It would mean that Mazda does not know how to design proper intake.

No, it means that Mazda selected an intake design that is either cheaper to manufacture and install, or that their design reduces noise and is easier for the average car owner (i.e. non-enthusiast) to maintain. Every CAI I've ever seen requires careful, periodic washing. The factory intake uses an easy-to-replace paper filter. Clearly not every component on a vehicle is designed to make it more powerful. The aftermarket exists for the enthusiast.

krzyss · May 2006

Isn't Mazdaspeed designed for enthusiast?
I think that you are mixing two things:
CAI is not washable air filter (oil ?). CAI may exist with original air filter.

So the data is for less restrictive air filter and CAI.

What are the chances that air filter does not filter as good as it should?

Krzys

PS Do not forget that manufacturer of such system has easy way out. If engine fails it was user who did not clean and oil the filter properly.

seanwms6 · May 2006

krzyss, though your English is great, I've got a great English word for you: "specious", as in your arguments are specious, or overly picky.

Mazdaspeed buyers might be enthusiasts but we're not buying track cars. Sure a CAI may exist with the original filter but does it ever? Yes, the data is for a less restrictive air filter integrated into the CAI. An oiled foam filter should do a great job cleaning the air since it is standard in a lot of applications involving dirty/dusty conditions such as off-road motorcycles. Sure, a manufacturer can always deny warranty coverage by claiming improper maintenance, but the burden is on them to prove that improper maintenance caused the failure. Of course, everything has already gone to hell when it get's that point, so you take a risk whenever you make a mod.

xplorx4 · May 2006

Isn't Mazdaspeed designed for enthusiast?

Yes, the driving enthusiast, not the maintenance enthusiast. I would challenge you to find any factory-spec "enthusiast" car that cannot be made more powerful with aftermarket mods such as a CAI or different exhaust. The manufacturers always make tradeoffs between performance, reliability, comfort, and price. I don't see how the MS6 is any different in that regard. If the MS6 had come with an open-element CAI that maximized performance but allowed too much intake noise (from the turbo or bypass valve), some customer would complain, or some magazine reviewer would say "The MS6 engine is too loud". It's better to err on the safer side, and let an "enthusiast" decide if he wants to sacrifice noise for performance. Honestly, I think that a majority of MS6 buyers will probably more than happy with out-of-the-box performance. 274HP/280TQ is nothing to complain about.

I think that you are mixing two things:
CAI is not washable air filter (oil ?). CAI may exist with original air filter.

I have never seen a CAI that retains the factory plumbing and filter that exceeds the performance advantages of a CAI with a washable filter element. If you can find a link to one for any car, please enlighten me.

qbrozen · May 2006

an open-element CAI

sounds like an oxymoron to me. If its an open-element under the hood, than its not a CAI. If its got a heat shield, its not longer an open-element. I suppose if you piped to the outside of the car and had the open element sticking out the front of your car, that would qualify. ;b

m3nmsp6 · May 2006

Thanks krzyss and xplorx4 for the explanation and extra info

So I is a CAI a good idea for to buy or are the gains not noticeable? What about Magnaflows CatBack?

Also another question I had that no one responded to... is anyone finding 93 octane? I just filling up with 91 octane from 76gas stations.

Thanks

xplorx4 · May 2006

Oxymoron? No, not so.
An "open-element" warm-air intake is one that's located inside the engine compartment, shielded or unshielded, such as this one:

Other open-element intakes located in the engine compartment are not sold or marketed as "cold-air" intakes. They're given some other name. An "open-element" cold-air intake is one that's located outside of the engine compartment, such as this one:

qbrozen · May 2006

ummmm... that's exactly what I said.

Although I didn't know someone would actually put that setup on their car. I'd hate to drive through some deep puddles with THAT! I know you can install a water bypass valve, but I still wouldn't trust that particular location. I'd like to shield it somehow, personally.

oh, and, by the way:
Other open-element intakes located in the engine compartment are not sold or marketed as "cold-air" intakes.

I've seen plenty of open-air engine-compartment-located filters marketed as "CAI." Most likely not by any reputable companies ... but you get what you pay for.

msandalis · May 2006

Hey all,

I am interested in a MS6 and the dealer has one demo with 9,000 kms (yep, I am in Canada). It is cloth and the MSRP is $36,000 (the one I actually want - base). What do you think the dicounted price should be? Any special approaches I could take to get the best price.

Thanks,

Michael

seanwms6 · May 2006

Man, that sucker is hanging low. Oiled filter or no that looks risky. Is that the way the MS6 CAIs are done? I kinda thought the filter would still be located inside the engine compartment with a just an intake nozzle in front of the wheel well. Guess, that shows what a newb I am.

xplorx4 · May 2006

Man, that sucker is hanging low.

Yeah, but fortunately that photo features a CAI installed on an SUV, so if the owner doesn't drive it off-road or through deep water, it'll probably be fine.

The MS6 cold-air intakes that are now available have the filter element behind the front bumper, in front of the "vents" in the left front wheel well, not inside the engine compartment. This location makes the filter more difficult to service, and as you and others have observed, more vulnerable to deep water.

seanwms6 · May 2006

Okay, I can accept that the water risk is low, but, yeah, difficult to service. Given the trouble I had getting my hands and tools up into that space to remove the resonator, I think it would be difficult. Oh, well, I'm leasing anyway so that clinches it for me.

ateixeira · May 2006

MSRP is pretty meaningless. Look at actual sales prices. A demo with that kind of mileage (kilometerage?) has to be worth about 10% less. Used is used.

-juice

jlogins · May 2006

$24,000-$22,000 or tell them you will buy new one from Florida. These cars are not moving at all.

I test drove a fully loaded one and they only wanted $29,000 and said he go a fair amount lower.

I have to admit I was pretty unimpressed. While the turbo is virtually free from lag its not a quick car by any means and for something with 280lbs or torque doesn't pull hard either. That combined with a gear shift that feel like its about to break at any moment. This is another zoomless Mazda

Handling is nice and crisp

stragf · May 2006

I am a Canadian who is considering purchasing a Speed6 stateside. Do your US models have daytime running light systems? They are mandatory here, and I would need to modify before being able to bring the vehicle back to canada.

vsroman · May 2006

A friend just paid $28,500 for a 2006 Black MS6 GT. This one has no sunroof, no nav, but did come with Sirius and auto-dimming mirror.

Most of the dealers in CT would not do this deal, only one after much bickering and negotiating.

seanwms6 · May 2006

Okay, so what's a quick car? Maybe you test drove a car that wasn't running right. The MS6 is a 4-door sedan with decent interior room that can run a 13.7 1/4 mile stock with an amateur driver at the wheel. I think you have to go pretty far up in price or far down in comfort to be a "quick car" by your standards. Also, I don't anyone can say that a car which pushes you back in the seat like the MS6 doesn't pull hard. I can definitely feel the 280-300 ft/lbs of torque. Personally, the MS6 is the only car I've been in that accelerates like a motorcycle. To me that says a lot.

xplorx4 · May 2006

Well, it doesn't accelerate like a motorcycle (unless it's a very gutless one), but it's powerful enough to give you that "feels like a rollercoaster" sensation in your gut. It's by far the fastest-accelerating car I've owned.

I'd hazard a guess that the demo model you drove had regular unleaded fuel in the tank. (Huge dealer mistake!) The PCM retards timing, reduces power, and may even limit throttle to 33% max, when low-octane fuel is used. So, yeah, the MS6 won't feel very fast at all under those conditions. In fact, it will be slower than a regular Mazda6 with the 3.0L V6!

seanwms6 · May 2006

I didn't say like a modern rice rocket, just like a motorcycle, say a Moto Guzzi (gutless?). It's in the same ball park in terms of letting you really feel the acceleration. Like you said, you can feel the acceleration viscerally like you can on a roller coaster. Not many cars do that. A lot of motorcycles do, hence the comparison, "like a motorcycle". Nuff said.

Yeah, I was wondering if the test drive that guy took was on 87 octane. I know from experience it feels like a real pig (instead of a pig on steroids and amphetamines when you've got 93 octane ;-)), since my first tank from the dealer was 87. Way, way slower than a Mazda 6 with V-6.

seanwms6 · May 2006

I'm pretty sure they only work when the headlights are on, but I'd have to double check. Is it that easy to bring a US car to Canada? Emissions certification is a killer for bringing cars to the US.

harddrive · May 2006

I paid $29.2k (US) for a 2006 Speed6 GT with sunroof and deflector but no Nav, no Sat radio. This is about $1300 less than the Edmunds TMV for my area. Sounds like about the same price as your friend paid, since the moonroof + deflector costs $650-750 extra.

I can only get 91 octane and this car pulls just as much or more than my wife's Magnum with 340HP hemi V8.

HDD

m3nmsp6 · May 2006

I agree, the MS is fast and you definetly feel the torque. My bro in-law is pushing 300 at 5'5 and when I gave a sample of what this car can do, it pushed him back into the passenger seat right away. And he didn't want to drive at first, just a ride, but after the sample ride, he wanted to drive it himself.

Another example is a co-worker who has a 2004 GTO with performance exhaust, headers, and computer chip. He was more than impressed with the quickness and of course the handling. This guy also has a 02' TransAM Firebrid on slicks.

Which I could fine some 93octance to see how much of a difference from 91octane...

mach9 · May 2006

Just got my ms6 sport.. I was told at the dealership that a limited number will be produced in 2007.

mach9 · May 2006

Just got my MS6 sport..paid $26,000 that is below invoice... came with compass auto dim mirror, wheel locks, cargo net.

mach9 · May 2006

I have a few days to decide to get one or not. They offered it to me for around $1600 at first and I declined and then they offered to me for $800. Haven't decided yet to take it..I also found on the mazdausa website that there are a few levels of the extended warr.

mach9 · May 2006

Got a great deal on my MS6. Below invoice. After reading the past posts looks like it might go lower after a while. Not selling at this dealership well either. They can't keep the 3's. They even had a 1k adjusted market value added to the MS6's and the 3's... Absolutely love the car! Still in the break in period so I am taking it easy. No problems so far. Have noticed the temp. goes up fast to operational temp.

Questions:

Should I get the extended warr.? I have a few days to decide to get it at the low price of $800. With the limited # produced it might be a good idea.

Would the ant. mod void the warr.?

Looking into the cold air and blow off valve. Is this worth doing? Will it help or hurt the engine in the long run?

Thanks

mach9 · May 2006

After buying my MS6 the dealership was setting up my first service visit to change oil etc... I told them I like to change my own oil. After talking to a mechanic there, you have to use a special wrench to do the job. I ordered it at the dealership for about $30. Also bought a filter for $5. They call it a canister filter. It's not like any other oil filter I have seen. Comes with o-rings. One for filter and one for the drain plug. There is also a cover you have to remove to get to the bottom of the engine. Is this the same for a Mazda 6?? Should be fun.

Also ordered shop manuals for about $110.

m3nmsp6 · May 2006

I was also thinking of changing the oil myself, however I read somewhere that its not worth it for the MS6. There was to much going on underneath. The reg. 6 I read was with the 2.3 was fairly simple...what brand of oil will you use? Synthetic?

mach9 · May 2006

I have been looking into it more but haven't yet got to change mine yet. There is a little more too it than the regular oil change. First you have to remove the panal under the engine, then there is a drain screw to the filter, which means less mess. The filter comes with two o-rings, one to the filter drain the other to the filter. You have to have a special wrench to get the canister off. Everything else is really basic. I wouldn't let the guys at the local lube place do it. The car manual sugests only the Mazda dealership should do it. But I'm going to give it a try. Also it holds 6 quarts... I'm buying the shop manual so maybe it will show more when I look into that.

I asked the mechanic at the dealership and he said he recommended regular oil with changed every 3k. I have read where people are using synthetic oil but from personal exp. with other cars. I could for sure tell a difference but after some oil changes down the road I started seeing smoke from the exhaust at start up. This is from using it with 3 other different cars. Plus it is so expensive!

PF_Flyer · May 2006

Summer's here! (Well, just about) Beat the heat and stop in to the chat tonight to talk about your favorite brand... Mazda!

PF Flyer
Host
Automotive News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

ateixeira · May 2006

I think $800 represents a bargain. Don't you get roadside assistance the whole time, as well? I think you can even get a pro-rated refund if you don't use the warranty.

Seems like a small amount to protect your investment, and yes absolutely this is a new powertrain.

-juice

ccletzgo · May 2006

still love the car as much as ever. Had the windows tinted. Looks alot better with the white. REaly sports it up.
Daughter bought brand new RX8 yesterday. Sure wish they would have put the speaker system in the MS6 that they have in the RX8. Her stereo sounds SO much better. That has been a disappointment. The sound system. Also, why in the world is the nice rear view mirror an extra? Still need to get that installed.

Our mazda dealership sold 26 Mazda 3's yesterday. Crazy!.. Took forever to get the RX8 detailed because the poor guys were exhausted

harddrive · May 2006

I'm going to get my first oil change soon and really wonder if I can take the Speed6 to the local quick change place. If the filter is a special type, then chances are the quick change will not have one on hand. Going to a dealer is a major pain, as there are only 2 dealers within 100 miles that can work on a Mazdaspeed (others not certified by Mazda).

So is this the case? Anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

HDD

MAZDASPEED Mazda6

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