BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

goinsailin · March 2005

Really, that much discount available on top of the incentive? That's a total discount between 14 and 16 percent. It's been a while since I negotiated a new car; I didn't realize there's that much room for negotiation. thx for the info.

kyfdx · March 2005

3.0 models are pretty expensive.. I would guess that the spread between MSRP and invoice is at least $4K, unless it is a no-option model.. You should be able to get all of the incentive, and at least half of the spread...

If they were selling really well, they wouldn't be putting big incentives on them...

peakpro · March 2005

In NJ...I have been getting quotes of 39K for 05 3.0's with manual with MSRP around 46k.

But I still think I should be able to do better and am waiting.

chiburb · March 2005

I contacted FleetRates.com and they've given me a price of 3k under invoice for any 3.0 Z4. Does anyone have any experience with them?

kyfdx · March 2005

It looks like they are a "middle-man".. They sign up dealers, and feed them customers...

There are eight dealers in Chicago.. surely, you could find one of them to give you the same deal, without involving another company...

$3K under invoice is still $1500 over cost.. That shouldn't be too hard to achieve with all of the competition in that area...

regards,
kyfdx

vsaxena · March 2005

As kyfdx said, just call/email the internet sales managers of the local dealerships.. Also look at carsdirect.com. A deal at $1000 over cost is very easily doable on the Z4. It is not exactly the profit leader for most dealers. But buy soon since sales should rise as summer approaches in the snow belt.

gmarga56 · March 2005

Would love to take advantage of the current $359 2.5 lease deal, but i am not ready yet. Probably will be by the end of the year. Which brings me to my question. After the summer in the northeast, do roadster prices usually drop or residuals on leases change that much to make that much of a difference? I know nobody has a crystal ball, but based on the less than stellar sales, the ragtop season over in the northeast, and the end of the year push to make yearly numbers, will I be able to get a comparable deal on a Z4 lease like the one that's out now?? Or even better? Could it be worse?? I really could use a bit of advice - I'd like to buy towards the end of the year for a few reasons, but the #'s now on a 2.5 lease works for me. Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

kyfdx · March 2005

If you are talking about buying an '05 model in November, there will still likely be big incentives, or even bigger ones.... but, the lease deals probably won't be as good.. Once the new models are out, the residuals usually take a big drop..

If you are buying, then no problem.. My personal opinion is that lease deals are generally at their best this time of year.. Of course, there are always exceptions..

wantone5 · March 2005

I am looking to purchase a 2.5 this June. I realize that last year's large incentives are gone, but the 05 incentives have already begun. I realize that June is not a good month to buy a convertible, but I am hoping that the present incentives will grow just a bit. Does anyone recall last year's incentive history? I live in New England and the ragtop season is a short one, so I do not want to wait until September or October when I will just be buying it to store it away for the all too long winter season. Also, has anyone out there visited Spartansburg for delivery. I was in Spartansburg several years ago and they has a nice Z3 on a pedistal out front. I would love to see the operation up close. Is it worth the trip?

nickmo · March 2005

i'm in your shoes exactly, i want a Z4 for June, but i am going to go ahead and order the car this week. i special ordered which puts delivery right at the end of May which is perfect. you can lock in the rates 60 days out so, March 31--> June 1. They say that i just have to put a $1k deposit down to lock in the March rates, and if the incentives improve they'll pass it along.

kyfdx · March 2005

No idea on what incentives will be in June.. But, I've taken the factory tour in Spartanburg, and it is very cool.. If I had the opportunity, I would definitely do the Performance Center Delivery.. As you get to thrash their cars around the track!!

regards,
kyfdx

gmarga56 · March 2005

I'll be the guy following you guys around in July salivating over the car......Wish I could swing it in June, but the wallet dictates an Oct or Nov purchase - and yes, it will kill me to put it away for the winter , but oh well. In your opinions, at that time of year, would it be better to try for the leases then or possibly go with a CPO?? BTW, I'm thinking it's gotta be Toledo blue with beige top and interior...... ;)such a great look......saw one today that scheme in front of the dealer on LI....

wantone5 · March 2005

The BMW factory website states that they have only made just over 6000 units to date this year. This seems to be well below even last years production figures. I have heard talk of a restyling for next year. I really like this look the current version. I am looking to buy one to hold onto it for many years. I think that this car won't be really appreciated until many years from now. I think that this will be one of those cars in 40 years that many people will say that they loved it from the start (just like the '53 Vette). Now everyone says that they loved the original, but no one wanted to buy one back then. The styling is very different than anything else out there, but 10 years from now there will be ten cars out there with copycat styling.

kyfdx · March 2005

The Z3 was in production for six model years ('97-'02) with no revisions.. I wouldn't bet on the Z4 being restyled any earlier than the '08 model year..

There would be a better chance of them just dropping it, rather than changing it significantly before then.. (I don't think that will happen, either).

regards,
kyfdx

peakpro · March 2005

I have also heard the Z4 may undergo slight revisions for 06.

Didn't the 7 series just undergo revision after just two years?

kyfdx · March 2005

Some re-styling of the taillights and trunk lid, but that is about it..

I'm not saying absolutely nothing will change.. They have changed the front end of the 3-series twice during it's most recent model run.. I don't consider those major changes..

The Z4 may get the new six cylinder engines next year... I guess that would be a big change..

I don't see anything changing visually, that anyone but a bimmerphile would notice.. It would be out of character for BMW..

peakpro · March 2005

Unless I'm reading it wrong I believe 2005 production is right in line with 2004.

BMW produced about 35,000 Z4's in 2004 or about 3000 a month. 6000 year to date 2005 would be about right so far.

wantone5 · March 2005

Does anyone out there have any idea as to how long it is currently taking to order a vehicle? I would like to have the car in my hands by June and I would like to know if I need to order it now or if I can wait until late April or early May. I am looking for a 2.5 with only a few options. I want the power top and maybe a few more options. I do not want the Premium Package because I am just not interested in paying for some of the options that I really don't think that I need. Most of the vehicles that are on dealer lots in my area all seem to have the Premium Package, so I think that I will have to order what I want.

kyfdx · March 2005

You should be able to get a car in eight weeks..

But, there is a $2500 incentive on the 2.5 model right now... It might not be there in June... All of the money you save by getting fewer options might disappear....

nickmo · March 2005

i just rolled the dice on the $2500 incentive not being there in May. Does anyone know whether the incentives last year continued through the spring?

kyfdx · March 2005

I don't think the incentives started this early last year...

Once incentives start, they usually don't go away, without some corresponding incentive starting.. So, maybe the cash will go away, but they'll have lease incentives... If you aren't interested in leasing, that won't help you, though..

One more caveat... I have seen incentives disappear on convertibles, once convertible weather gets here...

No one will know for sure ahead of time..

regards,
kyfdx

svrider · March 2005

my wife and i have been planning to lease the z4 so we checked out the local dealer last saturday. As someone mentioned above all the cars on the lot have at least auto/power seats/power top options. Most have leather but not one of them had the upgraded audio system, the only one we were really interested in.

Sales guy we talked to said he could do 4K below MSRP on any 2.5 even if we ordered one new. This after i told him about my research that most ppl are paying invoice+ (500 to 1000)-incentive(2500). So the cheapest one on the lot was 38kmsrp/34K selling.

About lease, i mentioned website deal, he said they would do a 0.0245 mf with 59% residual for 10K miles/36 mos.

I did not bargain really but I think i can do a little better either on selling price or lease terms. They also had a last 04 3.0 model but many packages pushing msrp to 46K. They have a 7K off but insist only on msrp. I asked for incentive off invoice

We live in Dallas so with weather warming up, i think we got to decide fast. Is it better to take one from lot of just order one with packages we need (auto, sound system)? Don't want to lose out on incentives.

regards
nivas

kyfdx · March 2005

I think you have the right idea... $1000 over invoice minus the $2500 incentive..

The residual is indeed 59% for 36mo/30K.

The base money factor is .0020... So, unless they are waiving the security deposit and/or the acquisition fee, then they are marking up the MF.

(BTW, waiving either of those for a higher MF is a losing proposition).

I always like to try to make a deal for a car they have on the lot... Since you are leasing, every $1000 more on the MSRP only costs about $13-$15/mo.. But, if you lose out on a $2500 incentive, that will cost you $75/mo...

So, any money you save by leasing a lower MSRP car, can get eaten up pretty quick by a higher sale price...

regards,
kyfdx

gmarga56 · March 2005

Anybody have any information on pre-owned leases of Z4's??? Are they sucker deals? Or could they be a viable and cheaper alternative to leasing new or buying? Are they even out there? Thanks in advance for responding.

svrider · March 2005

I went back again on thursday and spent some time writing down info on all the z4's on lot. Sales guy handed me a folder with the msrp's on each. For the single 04 3.0 he gave me a sheet which had both, dealer cost and msrp on it. I was surprised he showed it to me, but i noticed this interesting fact. They had a MACO charge and one additional fee(can't remember which one) added to invoice price.

My question is, if i want to bargain off the invoice price, should i let him included all these addl charges? I thought about the car on the lot option even considering the 3.0 (39K way too high even with incentive) but none really have that sound system option. Also seems like he is ready to make a deal on factory ordered one.

Regarding the money factor, i asked him point-blank why he was charging addl 0.00045, he laughed and said they needed to make some profit too! So, before i go back to him i need a clear strategy for the price i am willing to pay & lease terms.

svrider · March 2005

i checked out a few pre-owned ones online, i think you are better off with a new one with current incentives. Unless you are buying & have a budget of say <32K.

kyfdx · March 2005

I like to know about the invoice price, and the amount of MACO is a good thing to know also..

That said, I never couch my offer in those terms... I know what I know, and use that to make an offer of a certain amount.. I find that simplifies things... Once you start making your offer as "$XXXX above cost", then it is amazing what will suddenly become part of their "cost".

If you are leasing, let them know from the start that your offer assumes that they will use the "base" or "buy rate" numbers. Realistically, the dealers that max out the MF rate and bump the acq. fee by $200 are adding $1200 to the cost of your lease.

The other fee you saw was the training fee.. It is $160.. but, the dealer's invoice is $160 less than what you see on-line.. So, the dealer's invoice + training fee = Edmunds invoice.. (or KBB, or whatever source you use).

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2005

You could figure what you want to pay for the lease, the lease term, and the amount due at signing, and just offer that... and let them figure out the numbers...

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · March 2005

Leasing used cars is rarely a good deal...

svrider · March 2005

I plan to something like this, take a printout of edmunds tmv for the car i want(on the lot) & offer him tmv+1000-incentive. But this is the max price i would like to pay, so i don't know if i should start lower say tmv+500(at the risk of being laughed away!).
I could take the monthly payment angle but i need to be sure about what other charges get added on to prepare an estimate. Is the edmunds lease package good for this(the paid one i.e.)?

Thanks

kyfdx · March 2005

Negotiating is hard, no matter how you do it..

Taking a printout to them won't convince them of anything... They KNOW what they paid for the car, and they know what they will.. or won't.. sell it for...

I don't follow the TMV much.. Sometimes it seems like a good deal, other times way too much...

I'd rather look at dealer invoice, add a fair profit, deduct any incentives.. and go from there....

Not all BMW dealers will make you a good deal.. If you make a fair offer, and they laugh you away, then just go somewhere else....

But, I'm a lot better at figuring out the pricing, than actually doing the negotiating... I don't find buying cars any easier than anyone else does...

regards,
kyfdx

peakpro · March 2005

Absolutely true.

heres my story. In Oct 04 I purchased a z4 from a local dealer for 8K off MSRP when they had the large incentives. About three weeks ago I purchased a 325i from another local dealer since they had the manual I wanted. A fair price with the incentive and a good deal on my trade in sealed the deal. In neither case did I bragain hard for the deal. I thought they were fair prices and went for it.

Now I am looking for another Z4 with the new incentives and NEITHER dealer Iwould give me invoice +1000-incentive. What I think it fair at this time.

I went to another dealer (I have 3 within 11 miles) and I was offered 800 over invoice minus incentive. No hassle at all.

You must shop around.

svrider · March 2005

I am leaning towards a 2004 3.0, their last one. It has ZCV, ZPP, auto, wood, heated seats, xenon. Dealer cost with maco & training is 42910 & msrp is 46470. Dealer has a 7K off special on 04s but he said they would do it only on msrp. How much could i bargain on this one off invoice?

kyfdx · March 2005

The '04 had a $6500 incentive at the end, which I'm sure the dealer has collected..

At this point, you should be looking for $6500 off the invoice price at maximum...

One other thing to look out for: Make sure this car hasn't already been put into service.. The clock could already be running on the warranty and full maintenance..

Realistically, you should be able to buy an '05 for $7K off MSRP.

regards,
kyfdx

nickmo · March 2005

hi, i am about to put in my order but i am grappeling between the auto top and the manual top. has anyone had experience with the manual? is it a pain (do i have to get in the car and out again)? i'd rather not drop the extra $800 bucks or so for it unless it is an unpleasant Jeep like manual top.

wantone5 · March 2005

I am planning on placing my order for a 2.5 sometime next month. I know that March's incentive ($2500.00) is just about to end. Do the dealers get a heads up from the factory as to upcoming incentives? If I make a deal in mid-April and my car isn't going to come in until late May or early June, how can a dealer make a deal if they do not know about the incentives? Do they just assume that there will be no incentive and how likely are they to change their price when the car finally arrives? I do not just want to walk away from the deal if I have already invested $1000.00 to have the car ordered, but I do want to get the best price possible.

kyfdx · March 2005

The incentive is a dealer incentive.. Technically, it has nothing to do with whatever deal you negotiate..

I don't think the dealers know in advance, but once cash incentives are put on a vehicle, they rarely remove them..

So, negotiate a straight purchase price on the car you order..You know the invoice and incentive, so factor that into your offer. But, don't mention invoice, incentives, etc., etc.. If they commit to a price, then their incentive is not your problem...

Of course, if the incentive goes up, you don't have any right to it. You generally can't have it both ways..

regards,
kyfdx

thankthepasser · March 2005

for an '05 3.0?

Is it .0020, or .0022?

I need this ASAP, if possible, because I'm purchasing today and the dealer is quoting me .00255 (a substantial difference, as I'm sure you'll note).

Thanks!

kyfdx · March 2005

.0020

The only way to get to .00255 is to waive the security deposit (.00015) and add the maximum mark-up (.0004).

If they are doing this, I'm sure they are bumping up the acquisition fee also.. Base acq.fee is $625... Maximum mark-up is $200 more..

thankthepasser · March 2005

Thanks, they DID bump up the Aq fee to $825.

What would I do without Edmunds, I know not.

Currently, the offer I have from them for a 3.0 Premium, Sport, Heated, Xenon, Steptronic (Jet Black) is $42,070 with AQ fee of $825 and, when I asked for their BASE MF, was given a MF of .00255.

I am going in there and offering them a cap cost of $40,350 (500 over invoice - incentive), with the expectation of negotiating up to a max of $41,000. I'm NOT going to waive security deposit, and I'm going to ask for the Buy Rate/Base MF of .0020. Additionally, I WILL NOT budge on an AQ fee of $625. And, since I had such a hard time deciding between this and another car anyway, I have absolutely no problems getting up and walking away.

ky, thanks SO much for your help. I'll get back on later and post my results, regardless of what happened.

edit: Do you happen to know what the security deposit should be, and if it's variable, upon what is it dependent?

wantone5 · March 2005

Does anyone know what BMW offers for alarm systems? I am looking to buy or order in April and I do not think that I want to go without an alarm. Does BMW have something that works with the factory key. I really do not want to carry around an extra key fob just for the alarm. If they don't, does anyone have a good suggestion for an aftermarket alarm that works well with the Z4?

Kirstie_H · March 2005

Since this discussion is about pricing/purchasing, you might have better luck in our BMW Owners Club.

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

nyccarguy · March 2005

At the NY Auto SHow there was a strkiking Red/Black 6 spd/SP Z4... DAMN! It was one of the few cars at the show that I actually liked (the new E90 was the show stopper for me).

peakpro · March 2005

A dealer is offering $6000 off a 2004 Z4 he has on the lot.

I like get invoice pricing for the 2004 model.

Is this possible any where?

2004 3.0/Jet black/black leather/6 speed/sports package/full auto top/M sports seats/xenons

MSRP he states is $44695

kyfdx · March 2005

IIRC, the '04 Z4 3.0 had a $6500 dealer cash incentive toward the end of the year...

I'd guess the dealer "punched" the car, and already has received that incentive.. You should be looking for at least $9500-$10K off MSRP on that model..

The current '05 model has a $4500 incentive, and you should be able to buy one of those for at least $6K off MSRP.

To sum up.. that dealer is basically charging you MSRP for a year old car.. run away from that deal.

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: KBB.com still has '04 prices available on the Z4.

peakpro · March 2005

Kyfdx,

I agree with you. However the dealer says he can only come down a little more than the present $6000.

How do I convince him that he should come down another 3K at least. Besides walking out.

thanks

mond · March 2005

I usualy agree with your advice. However I disagree that negotiating for a car is difficult. Once you are armed with the numbers, the rest is easy since there are many dealers. So if you are offering $500 over invoice just say that you are sure another dealer will accept the offer and tell them why you would rather get the car from the dealer you are talking to. Just remember not to haggle and if the dealer offers $600 over invoice ... take it. Your time is worth more than the $100 difference. On the other hand, if it is a hot car like the new Mustang or the Lexus GS you will have a problem negotiating much of a deal. But that is the reality of the market place and has nothing to do with your negotiating skill.

kyfdx · March 2005

It really doesn't have a lot to do with your negotiating skill...

The dealer knows what they will sell the car for, and what they won't accept.

But, dealers are different, and competition varies by location... In my area, there are only two local dealers, and neither sells at what I consider to be competitive prices.. I don't think anyone gets a good price from either of them, regardless of negotiating skill..

So, you really can't convince that dealer of anything... other than you won't buy the car at that price..

mond is correct... knowing the correct numbers is the best ammunition you have..

But, even though a year-old new Z4 wouldn't seem like a hot commodity, there really aren't many of them out there.. If this dealer doesn't want to deal, you just have to look for another car..

So, I guess negotiating isn't that hard... but, I think finding a "fair price" on a BMW is... I like to buy locally, but I'm not willing to pay through the nose for it..

Good luck!!
kyfdx

mame · March 2005

I just bought a 2005 Z4 2.5, sport package, premium package, etc, MSRP $41700, by $37,000. Invoice price was $38,600, and I believe the BMW incentive for March 2005 is $2,500. That should give the dealer a profit of $900, which I think is fair. Reading this forum, it seems to me that the actual incentive was higher than I thought so... did I pay too much?

Thanks

kyfdx · March 2005

You did well... the incentive is higher for the 3.0 model...

regards,
kyfdx

BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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