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BMW Z4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience
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He threw in the wind deflector ($185 retail) instead of the floor mats when we picked up the car. The buying experience was pleasant; they have a car listed on EBay and were dealing, so the price was not an issue. The APR markup was something which did bother us, but we did not push it too much.
We were offered the 6yr/100,000 maintenance and warranty plan. We passed on them now but might consider them in the future.
MSRP: $44920
Purchase price: $37861. (About invoice - $3500). Took advantage of part of $4500 manufacturer-to-dealer incentive.
36-month closed end lease, 10000 miles per year.
Money Factor: 0.0019
Down Payment: $2500
Residual (58%): $26053
Acquisition Fee: $525
Refundable Deposit: $400
Because I put $2500 down, I went ahead and payed about $200 for the dealer to etch every piece of glass with serial numbers to decrease the chances of having the car stolen. The $200 fee also buys the insurance to get the $2500 downpayment back in case of total loss.
Dealer included the Z4 floor mats for free.
Total due at signing (includes down payment): $4239
Monthly lease: $397
State: N.J. (6% tax), included in monthly payment.
Is it a 2.5 or a 3.0 liter Z4?
$500 over dealer cost.
36m/10K year.
Here are my 2 cents.
If you still have not bought, good for you. BMW is offering the dealers $5000 in incentive to unload the 2004 2.5 liter Z4. It's $6500 for the 2004 3.0 liter Z4.
I learned in the leasing forum at www.edmunds.com that it is not a good idea to put money down on a lease. If the car is totaled or stolen, you do not get your deposit back. In my case, I did put $2500 down so my wife would feel better at paying $397 per month for her lease instead of $470 per month.
Here are my calculations on your car.
A 2004 2.5 liter Z4 with auto and power top has an MSRP of $36280 and an Invoice of $33535. These numbers are from www.carsdirect.com
First the calculations without putting any money down.
1 - Assume that the dealer makes $1000. You may be able to get the dealer to go for just $500 in profit for him. It depends on how motivated they are to unload the 2004. I had no problem in getting mine at $1000 above dealer cost.
2 - (Invoice - 5000 + 1000) = $29525
3 - I got 58% residual on 10000 miles per year, last month. I don't know if the residuals have changed in September. Car_man at the leasing post may be able to help you with the actual residual number. The residual will also be smaller if you need more than 10000 miles per year on the lease.
4 - 58% of the MSRP = $21042.
5 - (29525 - 21042) / 36 = $235.64 to pay down the difference between the purchase price and the residual value over 36 months.
6 - Interest per month
(29525 + 21042) * 0.002 = $93.13
7 - Total lease, before taxes, no money down.
235.64 + 93.13 = $328.77
Your'll have an acquisition fee, deposit and first month payment.
If you decide to put down an extra $3000, then the payment should be about $247. This is a lot lower than what you were quoted.
The above numbers will change depending on the miles per year you actually need, the residual now in September for the 2004 model and the actual price above dealer cost. The above numbers are $1000 above the dealer cost, which is (Invoice - $5000).
Good luck, let us know how you did.
In your case the best deal would be a CPO car. This will give you warranty coverage for upto 6 years from the start date or 100K miles. Buy the extended maintenance program ($1K) and you are set with no maintenance/warranty costs for upto 100K miles, except for tires, insurance and gas.
Since you are going to be commuting, avoid the 3.0 Sports Package with the 18" wheel. The runflats on the 18" make the ride very hard and not good for commuting. A 3.0 non-Sports or a 2.5 Sports, both with 17" wheels are better for commuting. I also considered a Z3 before going for the Z4 but they are not in the same league. A Z4 is much better car than the Z3 when it comes to the driving dynamics.
In order to come up with an offer for a CPO car, I would use this formula:
1. Find the current invoice cost of a new 2004 Z4 with similar equipment (edmunds, carsdirect etc.).
2. Subtract the current incentives ($6500 for 3.0 and $5000 for 2.5); add $1000 for dealer profit. This is the going price for 2004 Z4.
3. Reduce the price you get in #2 by about 20% for the 1st year depreciation.
4. Add $1000 to the price in #3 to come up with a fair market value for the CPO car.
Most dealers, especially in the North East and the MidWest will take this deal. They do not want to be stuck with these pre-owned cars for too long. You may end up paying $1000-$2000 more than the number you come up with in #4 but walk if they ask for more.
There are a lot of Z4s for sale on EBay, many of them from BMW dealers. Very few of them are selling since the reserves are not being met. Once in a while you get a steal; a 2003 3.0 with less than 10K miles went for $30K, a full $15K less than MSRP last week.
If you do your home work well, you should be able to get a 2.5 CPO for around $31-32K and a 3.0 CPO for about $34-36K.
I have been looking at the Z4 for a while and now (September) they have very good lease offers.
I have the opportunity to get a z4 with power top MSRP is $35570. When I see the BMW site it says that downpayment will be 2500 and monthly payments will be $320 (with taxes).
Now I went to a dealer and I know the dealers are getting $5000 from BMW...so I expected to get the car for $35570 - $ 5000 = $30570. This will make the monthly payments lower. However, the dealer is telling me that the $5000 are built in the lease and that's why the lease is so low.
He is saying that when BMW talks about $320 monthly payments for the car BMW is including the $5000 discount already there.
is this true?
WOW...you are brilliant! Thank you so much for y our help! You really opened my eyes and gave me some amazing info! I now feel armed to do battle. I live on the West Coast and convertibles are premium here but I can go in feeling more comfortable dealing with dealers!!!
Thanks again, and keep up the good advice. You are an asset to this site~!
Nancy
Your MSRP of $35570 has an invoice price of about $32800. What I did in negotiating for the Z4 is work from the Invoice price, not the MSRP. A few people in these forums have been able to purchase or lease a new 2004 Z4 after giving the dealer just $500 to $1000 in profit.
What I would do in your case is the following:
1 - Try offering the dealer (Invoice - 5000 + 500), in other words, about $28300 for the car. This gives the dealer $500 in profit. I personally wouldn't go above $1000 profit for the dealer. That is, your purchase price should be between $28300 and $28800. If not, IMO, you're paying too much. Remember, they are motivated to get rid of the 2004 roadsters. Roadsters, in general, are not selling well. If they don't go for this, be prepare to walk to another dealer or a different car. If you really want the Z4, then they are going to get some extra money from you.
2 - If you are going to lease, go to the leasing forum in this site and ask the host, Car_man what the residual is for the 2004 Z4 2.5 liter this month. Remember, you have to tell Car_man the number of miles that you want to be able to drive per year and the number of months in your lease.
3 - Once you have the best purchase price for the car, the residual percentage, and the current money factor of 0.002, you'll be able to figure out the monthly amount.
4 - If you do your homework you should be able to do a lot better than $320 per month.
For example, last month the residual for a 36 month lease and 10000 miles per year was 58%. If that residual still applies in September, then such a lease in your case should cost only about $251 a month, before taxes, and assuming $2500 down. The same, without a down payment would be about $326.
Forget the lease calculator on the website or what you see in the ads.. You can almost always do better.
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Thanks
Z4 2.5i
Money Factor .00200 Base Rate (good for all terms and mileage)
24 mo/15k mi = 59% residual - 36 mo/15k mi = 51% residual
24 mo/12k mi = 61% residual - 36 mo/12k mi = 52% residual
24 mo/10k mi = 62% residual - 36 mo/10k mi = 53% residual
Z4 3.0i
Money Factor .00200 Base Rate (good for all terms and mileage)
24 mo/15k mi = 59% residual - 36 mo/15k mi = 50% residual
24 mo/12k mi = 61% residual - 36 mo/12k mi = 52% residual
24 mo/10k mi = 62% residual - 36 mo/10k mi = 53% residual
LEASE CALCULATOR
Capitalized Cost (CC) = purchase price + acquisition fee - cap cost reduction.
Residual (RD) = % of MSRP (not purchase price).
Monthly Lease payment (CC - RD)/# of months + (CC + RD) * Money Factor.
Add Tax to above.
Drive Off = security deposit, license fee, first month's payment (with 0 down payment towards cap cost reduction).
ALWAYS PUT 0 down towards cap cost reduction.
Thanks for the post. I've been trying to get the residuals for the Z4 for this month. Where do you get these numbers?
I leased my Z4 last month. Last month, the 3 liter 10K miles, 36 month lease had a residual of 58% and a manufacturer-to-dealer incentive of $4500. My lease came out to $397 per month, including taxes in N.J. I just went through the calculations for my car, based on the 53% residual and $6500 incentive. I went ahead and assumed that I would get the $2000 extra incentive between August and September for my lease, and the number came out to about $400 a month.
That is, leasing this month would have cost the same, even with the $2000 extra for the incentive.
I guess what this means is that 3 years from now, I may be able to get the car for 53% of the MSRP instead of the 58% MSRP from last month. It seems the residual takes a deep drop right after the manufacturer stops taking orders for the previous model year car, as it happened for BMW in August.
Your calculations are indeed correct. They had to drop the residuals by the amount they were increasing the incentives for. Otherwise the depreciation on a car stickered for $48.5K would have been just $11K over three years!!
The only issue is that we will have to negotiate the residual lower. The current wholesale price of 2003 Z4s 3.0 is in the low 30s. It is very likely that three years from now, the price of a 2004 Z4 will be in the low 20s and not the high 20s which our residuals currently are.
It is obviously too early yet to know if we'll keep the car 3 years from now. It will depend on what other new roadsters and deals are out there at the time.
My wife does love the Z4. It is a fun car to drive ... I only get to drive it when the boss lets me! Everytime I do drive it, I'm riding around with a huge smile on my face. It's definitely going to be hard to stay within the alloted miles with this car.
1) You decide you want to buy your car.. Residual is $25K. Payments $500/mo for 60 months for a 3-year old car. Only one more year of warranty left.
2) It is August of '07.. The all new Z5 (not a real car) is just not moving.. they have big incentives.. You can lease a brand new one for under $500/mo. with nothing down...
I think you'll choose #2.. and be happy for the last three years, and looking forward to the next three.
regards,
kyfdx
My guess is
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You're right, once you go leasing you don't go back. We'll probably just turn the car in and lease again.
With so much competition going on in the auto industry, and all kinds of innovations going into cars all the time, it's more appropriate to lease. In addition, when you lease, you don't have to deal with having to find a buyer eventually for an old car. I suppose most people now-a-days only get the trade-in-value when they get rid of their cars. You also don't have to deal with the cost and aggravation of repairs.
You do need a second car in the household, one with front wheel drive, for those that live in the Northeast and have to deal with winter snow.
I have a hard time believing he wouldn't jump at $2500 less than that.. or even $3500 less..
Business must be good.
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Last month, I leased a 3 lilter 2004 Z4. In August they had a $4500 incentive instead of the $6500 this month. I got a price of (Invoice - 4500 + 1000). In other words, $1000 profit for the dealer. Most people are being sucessfull with just $500 for the dealer.
You should definitely be able to get (Invoice - 6500 + 500).
Someone told me last month that some BMW dealers are getting other nonpublished incentives from the manufacturer to unload the 2004 Z4 in their lots. So you may be able to get the car for (Invoice - $6500)
I don't know how that compares to everyone else but I'm interested to find out.
Add 2% to Residual Value for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms
They have increased the residuals but increased the money factor. With the incentives you can now lease a 3.0 with an MSRP of $48K+ for $475/month + tax assuming the dealer makes a $500 profit.
Z4 2.5i
24 mo/15k mi – 62% Residual Value – Money Factor .00240 Base Rate
36 mo/15k mi – 55% Residual Value – Money Factor .00240 Base Rate
48 mo/15k mi – 44% Residual Value – Money Factor .00255 Base Rate
60 mo/15k mi – 37% Residual Value – Money Factor .00255 Base Rate
Z4 3.0i
24 mo/15k mi – 62% Residual Value – Money Factor .00240 Base Rate
36 mo/15k mi – 55% Residual Value – Money Factor .00240 Base Rate
48 mo/15k mi – 43% Residual Value – Money Factor .00255 Base Rate
60 mo/15k mi – 36% Residual Value – Money Factor .00255 Base Rate
The salesman was only reducing the price off MSRP not invoice. He got pretty perturbed at me when I asked for the $6500 of invoice and then add back in $1000 for their profit. Oh well! Their loss. I'll go look elsewhere.
if you go to the www.BMWusa.com website, you can get a list of dealers in Georgia. Then, you go to the website for each one of those dealers and you can check on their inventory of 2004 Z4.
When you check the inventory at a dealer, find the one with the options that you're willing to live with. Then, you write down the MSRP and the stock number for that car at that dealer. You then go to www.carsdirect.com or this site, and find the invoice price for the that car, with the exact same options listed for the one at the dealers.
Now you're ready to go to the dealer and offer the (Invoice - 6500 + 500) for the car.
Good luck. Let us know how you do.
At a dealership I was quoted a price that is around $42,000, and they will subtract the $5,000 factory rebate BMW has at the moment. That would equal to about $37,000. Any ideas how low the dealership could go with the price? If I have understood correctly, that $5,000 factory rebate doesn't have an impact on the profit the dealership will receive on the car. In that case they probably could take off another $1,000 on the price? Any advice?
You should be able to get the car for $34500. That is (Invoice - 5000 + 500).
The price you were quoted is too high. Just about everyone is getting this price with the $500 to $1000 profit for the dealer, AFTER subtracting the $5000 from the INVOICE price.
Good Luck.
P.S. You'll love the Z4.
Few followup questions:
1.Is the $475/month lease rate you mention in your 9/16/04 message above for a 24, 36, 48, or 60 month lease?
2. How many miles per year?
3. Is this for a 2004 or 2005 (guess is an '04)?
4. Down payment/capital reduction?
5. Does money factor change if you use 12k or 10k miles instead of 15k?
Also, for anyone, any latest and greatest lease pricing info for Southern California area (including dealership) for a 3.0 for a 36 or 48 month, 12k yr. lease?
Thanks!
2. 10K/year (The residuals are for 15K. Add 0.02 for 12K and 0.03 for 10K).
3. 2004
4. 0 cap cost drive off = 1st month, security, title...
5. No change in MF based on mileage (typically true of all leases).
$475 is an approximate number..
Dealers are now dealing on Z4. A lot of people have got their Z4s at $1000 dealer profit or less. Use the carsdirect pricing as the maximum you will pay for the car. Then negotiate the Money Factor (they can mark it up by 0.0004) and the acquisition fee (BMWFS is $525).
Thanks!
4yr/50K warranty with free maintenance is another pro for the BMW.
I'd rather have a car that was built to be a convertible, than one that was designed first as a coupe.
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Another thing you may want to consider is resale. 350Z roadster has one of the best resale values probably due to limited production. S2000 also has good resale value and IMO is unbeatable when it comes to value.
But I think the choice should come down to pure passion in the roadster segment. The car that makes the heart throb most is the one to go with.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0408_sportconv/index.ht- - - ml
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This is the recent quote I received from BMW in Seattle, WA area:
1. BMW Z4 3.0 MSRP $48495. $6500 off. Lease is for 3yr/12mi...MF .0023 and Residual is 52%. The monthly payment is $650 including 9.1% tax.
2. BMW Z4 2.5 MSRP 42755. $5000 off(saleman stated the amount is less for 2.5)..3yr/15k mi...MF .0024 Residual 50%. The monthly payment is $623 including tax.
Ok, who is lying to me?
thanks all
Regarding the incentives, I heard that they may not be extended too. It seems that the Z4 inventory has started going down so BMWNA might force dealers to start punching them rather than continue the incentive for much longer.
bluedemon: The lease residuals and rates you quoted changed in the middle of the month. I think the new residuals are higher by about 5%. Ask your dealer to do the math again. From what I understand of your deal, the dealer is offering MSRP-Incentive. Counter with Invoice - Incentive + Profit Margin. Out here in the SF Bay Area, dealers are dealing aggressively so $1000 over cost should be easy.
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The advertising fee varies by region and is not included on edmunds...
Mats are not included in invoice price, either.
What price are you offering? If he won't negotiate the fees, then lower your offering price, now that you know those fees are added. You always have the option of not buying.
regards,
kyfdx
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You could go to www.bmwusa.com and get a list of dealers in your area. Then, it's a simple matter of going to the website for each one of those dealers and find out the dealer with the Z4 that you want. Then, just go to that dealer and make the deal.
That's actually what I did; the problem is that no-one on this area had exactly that what I wanted to get. So I had to rely on this dealership, and the sales guy to get me the car from quite a few hundred miles away... If this deal he is currently working on falls through, I will go to someone else.
I'm going to lease a 3.0 Z4 tomorrow afternoon. The MSRP is 46820 and the final price is 38000.
Please let me know if you have any Idea about the lease price for this car.
2000$ down, 6% tax (NJ), 36 month, 12000 or15000 mile.
Thanks