I test drove both the 05 Mazda 3 S sedan and the 06 Honda Civic EX sedan. I liked them both, but I bought the Civic.
The main reason wasn't the engine, wheels, leather seats or Xenon headlights.
It was comfort.
I'm 6' 1" and 215lbs. My head rubbed the ceiling in the Mazda 3 with the moonroof, even with the seat all the way down, and the drivers leg room was very tight. The length of the leg room was OK, but the width of the area where your feet sit for the clutch, brake and gas pedals was cramped. My right leg also rubbed on the center console. The Civic is much more comfortable. I know some folks don't like the position of the emergency brake handle, but it's not a problem for me. I didn't like the Mazda's rear seat leg room either. My 14 year old daughter's knees were into the back of the front seats. She sits very comfortably in the 06 Civic.
I remember telling my wife how much I enjoyed driving the Mazda 3 despite the lack of leg and head room and tried to rationalize that maybe I was overreacting to the negative aspects of my first test drive and so I went back and drove one again, but nothing changed and after I test drove the 06 Civic, that was it.
I don't like sitting in a sardine can. Zoom Zoom Zoom, not.
You make a good case for making sure to take the entire family with you when you test-drive a car, to make sure everyone fits. It's also a good example of how you can't tell everything by the numbers. By just the numbers, it seems the '06 Civic's interior should be cramped. But I've found it has as much or more usable space for passengers than cars with larger interior dimensions and interior volumes. Nice job of packaging.
When I had my '04 SI in for service, the dealer pawned me off on a Kia Rio...
Well....what a car. Load buzzy motor, no acceleration, and very noisy interior. I didn't feel quite safe in this "entry-level" car. It felt like a Geo from early 90s. After getting my Honda back, I knew why I spent extra to get the refined Honda. I gave the dealer some lip service after that fiasco. Next visit, they gave me a loaner '05 accord. That's how you treat customers.
On my test drive, there was much to take in, but a few things that I noticed were that the throttle was mapped for abrupt tip-in, like a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee or Jetta, maybe to give the illusion of greater power (or to compensate for the lag- but this would only serve to highlight it?); the shifter was very light effort but did not have any self-centering force so that the 2-3 shift would hit the 'thingy' between 1st and 3rd; the clutch was grabby near the top end of release so that the window of time for a smooth clutch-gas interaction was very small...but like others have said, anyone could prolly get used to it, just like how one gets used to driving mtx's from one car to another...but it certainly is different than any other mtx I have driven so far. Others on vtec forums have noted the throttle lag, not as bad as an Acura TSX or Mazda 3 (both DBW), but still there...
Was that a '06 Rio? It's been totally redesigned from that primitive car of '05 and before. Quite a nice little car now, especially considering it costs a few thousand less than a Civic.
The two engines are the "same" in the same way the "platforms" are the same - which is to say, so many details are different that they are almost different engines. Certainaly the output is in favor of the Mazda. But we are offtopic in this Civic forum. 'nuff said.
These cars look as alike as a Toyota highlander and a Pilot look alike. The honda is completely different, the hood on the honda is dramatically shorter, it has far greater greater windshield rake. The healights are completely different, the rear end is completely different. The character line on the civic is low on the doors, the mazda has none, Mazda has copied acura's pentagram grille. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but these cars are as different as cars get. No one has done a full test of the new civic thus any 0-60 times you are quoting are pure speculation. The inside packaging of the honda is much better. The engine on the Mazda is nowhere close to the Hondas in refinement, the 2 liter version of Hondas four produces 40 (25%) greater horsepower than the Mazda's. The only reason the Mazda outscored the previous Civic in CR testing is that it handled better (of course it was competing with a 5 year old design) and it was ranked only marginally better. The new civic make the old civic seem dowdy in comparison, the Mazda 3 series, although a very nice car, is barely a contender to the new Civic. In the handling department (the only area zoom zoom was better than the civic) the new civic and the Mazda 3 are a wash, in every other area the Mazda is simply not up to par. The mazda may offer more optional goodies, but the truth is that if you dress up a turd in diamonds its still a turd;)
.....for Honda and Toyota might be to tell perspective buyers to go drive the Korean cars first, then come and drive their cars. People would then see first hand why Hondas and Toyotas are more expensive. You get what you pay for. There is no such thing as a free luch when it comes to buying vehicles.
That might work well for Honda with the Civic in certain situations, for example the all-new Civic vs. the five-year-old Elantra, but it could backfire as a general strategy in other cases, e.g. Sonata vs. much pricier Accord and Camry, and the Corolla with its driving-position issue vs. the Elantra and Spectra. It could also backfire when people see they can get a really nice economy car, e.g. Rio and (soon) Accent, with comparable room and safety equipment to the Civic LX, for several thousand dollars less.
It's interesting that whenever I've mentioned to a Honda or Toyota dealer that I would be comparing their cars to Hyundais, they've never said, "Oh, that's a really good idea! Go over there and drive those cars, and you'll see how great the Honda/Toyota is in comparison--well worth the extra money!" Instead, I got either bad-mouthing of the Koreans ("Don't you know they are really poor quality and unreliable??") or just a simple "Oh."
I think a lot of consumers will just buy a car off the first or second dealer lot they walk onto, it has nothing to do with the make or quality. I think dealers and their sales people learn Jedi mind-tricks that reduce the ability of the average American shopper to say "no" to nearly zero. That's why the dealers generally badmouth every other make, unless it's another dealer with the same franchise, in which case they bad mouth the dealer.
You mean like the recent one-week test Edmunds.com did where they rated the Sonata clearly superior over its Japanese competition? Or the big small-car comparo C/D did, when they rated the '02 Elantra over the '02 Civic and called the Civic "a loser"? It's not so clear anymore, is it? The new Civic is one of the top cars in its class, but I can't wait to see what the all-new Elantra is like when it comes out next year.
I didn't mean to say Mazda 3 and Honda Civic look alike at all. The Mazda is a classic beauty while the civic sedan is...well lets just call it a duckling:
And no, the "inside packaging" of the civic is not much better, on the contrary, mazda 3 especially the grand touring has a lot more upscale interior: chrome accents, bose audio, heated leather seats, neon illuminated gauges, leather wrapped sterring wheel, 6 cd in dash changer.
What Others Are Paying (2006 Mazda 3 S Grand Touring)
MSRP Invoice National Base Price A note about advertising fees $19,165 $17,935 $18,841 Regional Adjustment for Zip Code Change - - $53 Optional Equipment $2,325 $2,035 $2,261 2MC Moonroof, 6-CD Package & Bose Audio Package $1,335 $1,148 $1,294 AT2 5-Speed Sport A/T $950 $855 $929 WLK Wheel Locks $40 $32 $38 Color Adjustment - - $0 Sunlight Silver Metallic Destination Charge $560 $560 $560 Total with Options $22,050 $20,530 $21,715
21,715 That's what it costs. So for $2,215 more....you can get Xenon lamps and leather seats. (I threw in the wheel locks cause I got mine at No Charge.)
When it comes right down to it......it is all about the numbers....period.... Honda's will always out sale Hyundais.... especially in the near future....I will be the first to admit that Hyundais have made fairly good progress in the quality of their cars.... but c'mon....they are not even in the same class as Honda and Toyota's.... So unless Honda and Toyota fall off the face of the earth.... Hyundais will never catch them in total sales... for any model... period! Hyundai has a long warranty right? Well take a close look at what is covered under that warranty and you will be surprised when you take it to the dealership for the tenth time in one year and hear those famous words...."Oh, that's not covered under warranty"....so what good is a 10 year warranty if it covers nothing....and if you want proof...come talk to my neighbor who has one....his so called SUV spents more time in the shop then he does driving it! So if I was a bettin' man....and in this case I would be....I would bet that Honda out sells Hyundai in any model....period! And if you did a long term test...oh let's say 5 years.....which car....the Civic, Accent, or Rio do you think would spend the most time in the shop? Which car do you think would maintain it's resale value the most? One last thing....any Honda salesman would not care one bit if you went to the Hyundai Dealer...because their product is proven...the other...not so much! So by all means...stroll over and buy your Accent, Rio....doesn't matter what year....hell, wait for the remodel....bottom line...when I am driving my Honda product down the road trouble free....I will see your car in the repair stall...while you are in the waiting room sipping a diet soda... good luck...and happy motoring!
My, Honda fans get riled up about Hyundais. Perhaps it's because the thought of someone buying a very good car, maybe one as good as a Honda, but for thousands less than they paid for their Honda, is a tough idea to swallow. But then, I'm a Honda fan also. Owned two Civics and loved both of them. But when it comes down to paying several thousand dollars more for a trapezoidal H emblem vs. an elipitcal H emblem, and getting a car that fits my needs better than the Honda, it's an easy decision.
GM, Ford and DC outsell Honda, but I don't think their cars are better than Hondas.
I admit, though, I had to have one of my Hyundais in the shop just today. (No diet soda, though--the dealer drove me home and I came back later to pick it up.) It's five years old, so things are bound to start falling apart on the thing, right? Anyway, I had to have the oil changed (the darn stuff wore out, can you imagine that!?!?) and they replaced one of the rear license plate lights. That bum bulb is enough right there to make me ditch that loser of a car and get a Honda! :P
I have an 06 LX Civic coupe and my wife has a Mazda 3s GT. Both are good cars, but the Honda is better in things that count to me. For one thing, my Honda cost $3,400 less than the Mazda, and the only thing it lacks that I care about is aluminum wheels, which is about a $500 fix. I find that the Mazda has a lot of extras (xenon headlights, heated seats you have to turn off in 60 seconds because they are overwhelming) that make little difference in everyday driving.
Honda is better for: Smoother, quieter engine! (not quite as fast, but close enough, especially given the superior smoothness) Superior mileage. (important for commuting 20K + per year) Comfort. The seats are much better, especially in the longer length of the seat bottoms (Mazda's are too short). The ride is also smoother. Yes, this is at the expense of handling -- but the overall combination is better. Instrumentation. both take some getting used to. I find the Mazda's boy-racer dash with bright red lights annoying, and the counterclockwise-rotated speedometer is very busy and dificult to read. (40 mph is about where 5 mph is on a normal speedo). No one will argue that the Honda speedo is difficult. Mazda audio and AC controls are not easy. Honda's are. Stereo. Both are good. Honda's is better. Whatshisname goes on and on about the 6-disc Mazda changer, but my Honda plays MP3 discs (standard on cheaper LX, extra cost on top-end Mazda). I can burn 10 full albums on one CD, and change from one album to the next in about two seonds. No changer can do that.
Mazda is clearly faster, and the handling is fantastic. It corners like it's on rails. That's just not what I need for mostly highway driving.
Let's see.... GM, Ford, DC outsell Honda..... your right! Where is Hyundai on that list.... oh that's right..... right above suzuki.... By the way... what is the #1 selling car in America?? Could it be a Ford??....no...Could it be a GM product??no.... Could it be a Hyundai??.... Let's get real!!! Could it be the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord? (These guys go back and forth all the time... although the Camry has the edge). I wonder why that is? Could it be that both models have a solid reputation with plenty of proof all over the place to back it up??? The Accord making the 10 best list for 19 years in a row?? Those darn Honda products don't deserve that big "H" on front and back of their cars.... they need to remove them ASAP!!! And just for giggles....step on over to the "Real World Trade In Value" page and scroll around until you find where someone was asking the "great car god" Terry about trading in their 2005 Honda Accord for a 2006 Hyundai Sonata.....then take a look at his response...point blank and to the point.... By the way....after they replace that light bulb....and change out that darn oil that seems to be wearing out all the time....place that bad boy in the local classified ad....it will fall under the entire row of other Hyundais people are trying to unload.... And see what you get for it....of course if I had my choice....I would bypass your Hyundai and head straight for Starbucks for a cup of joe....which by the way are worth the same amount.....Happy Motoring....................
Honda fans have every right to get upset when people make ridiculous claims such as Korean cars are better than, as good as, or even close to as good as a Honda because it simply isn't true. It's kind of like the left wingers claiming Bush was in on 9/11.
Keep in mind that these people making "ridiculous claims" about Korean cars being better than/as good as/close to as good as Hondas are people like the editors of Edmunds.com and the editors of C/D. It's also people like me who have actually owned Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais for many years and have a first-hand perspective of what it's like to live with and drive them over a long period of time.
Maybe you and others who think these claims are ridiculous should stop bashing Hyundais, go write your protest emails to Edmunds.com, C/D, and other third parties that are making these claims, and let us get back to talking about the '06 Civic.
My, Honda fans get riled up about Hyundais. Perhaps it's because the thought of someone buying a very good car, maybe one as good as a Honda, but for thousands less than they paid for their Honda, is a tough idea to swallow. But then, I'm a Honda fan also. Owned two Civics and loved both of them. But when it comes down to paying several thousand dollars more for a trapezoidal H emblem vs. an elipitcal H emblem, and getting a car that fits my needs better than the Honda, it's an easy decision.
You can be sure the designers at Honda don't take Hyundai as lightly as some of the posters here to be sure. As Hyundai cars stay on the road longer and longer, their reputation for long term reliability will grow. If they can't stay on the road as commuter cars for 10-15 years and 200k+ miles, their reputation won't grow. But that takes time obviously and we'll need another 5 or so years to see if that happens. Funny thing is, once their reputation grows, their bargain pricing days will over.
Honda fired their salvo, and while I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, it looks like a good one. I too am interested in what the next Elantra looks like since it's been six years since the last one already. You can bet Honda is interested as well.
I agree with you... let's talk about the 06 Civic.... not the Hyundais..... yet I believe your the one who brought it up.... this is the 06 Civic forum.... not the 06 Civic vs whatever forum.... but since you brought up the C/D and Edmunds editors.... take a look at the 5 year ownership stats on these cars..... which one do you think is the worst of them all? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....this isn't rocket science! I see that you want to give props to the Korean cars when it suits you.... but when valid points are made (about resale, reliability, 5 year ownership costs, safety issues, etc, etc, the list goes on.....) you have no comments. I don't care which magazine you read, what web page, or any media you read....in the end they read the same way....Honda, Toyota....outstanding.....Korean cars....making progress....but??? That's why I said before, unless H & T's fall off the face of the earth....Korean cars will not match them in tech, resale, reliability, etc....at least not in our lifetime.....
That sounds like what they said about Toyota and Honda in the late 60's and early 70's. Junk cars that could never compete with Ford and Chevy. What happened? Better quality and reliability in less than 10 years, and market leadership in 30 years. All in many peoples' lifetimes. Hyundai may very well surpass Toyota and Honda in the next 5-10 years in reliability and take over sales leadership in 10-30 years. How old are you?
Actually it was bottgers who started this thread (2618):
Oh BTW, Hyundai, Kia, Suzuki, and the other companies can stop comparing their insignificant recyclemobiles to the new Civic. As ridiculous as it was that they compared their cars to the previous gen Civic, it would be absolutely hidious to compare to the new one. The new Civic is simply in a different league than any of their vehicles.
I have lots to say about the resale, reliability, ownership costs etc., but this isn't the place for it. If you want to continue to bash Hyundais here instead of talking about Civics, be my guest.
curtc, I faced the same decision you did, Elantra GT vs. others, but since the Civic didn't come in a 5-door (and the GT was fully loaded with leather etc. for $13k), it was a very easy decision in favor of the GT for me.
chidro and bamacar, I appreciate your thoughtful comments, but let's get back to the Civic and let the Hyundai-bashers carry on if they want to.
I own a camry, have never owned a honda or hyundai, but here is my take. Hondas make dependable cars with great resale value. Hyundai has improved dramatically and should not be discounted. If you put a blindfold on and were a passenger in each car, the average consumer would be hard pressed to notice the difference. The problem is that most people have a perception that Hondas are better than Hyundais ,and based on history they are right. The gap has narrowed considerably but the perception with the general public has not and in resale value perception is reality. After 2 -6 years the money you save on the hyundai when new will be given back at resale. Unless you keep cars for 8-10 yrs and 150-200k miles, it is an issue to be considered. When you trade in a hyundai, you will not be happy with what you get. You can pay more now, or get more later, the choice is yours. The hyundais will become great values when resale values increase. BTW, my previous camry a 99 had 180k on it when an engine rod blew. I still got $1500 from a car recycler for it. If this was a Sonata, probably lucky to get $200.
CD never said the Sonata is better than an Accord. Never.
Edmunds chose to compare 4 cyl camcords v/s a 6 cyl Sonata, just for the fact that their pricing was similar. By that logic, BMWs would be the world's worst cars, and never win any comparos. I am waiting for the 10Best issue for CD, let's see if the improved Sonata can finally dethrone the Accord off that list.
IMO, Hyundai definitely has stepped up a few notches, and I am sure Hon/Toy will be watching them more than any other manufacturer. Even the Azera is getting rave reviews, and this competition just makes things better for us consumers.
Finally saw a new Civic parked on the street. My god it looks huge! I don't know if it's just the styling or if the actual dimensions have changed. It looks practically Accord-sized. Is it a mid-sized car now?
Could not have said it better myself!!! Everything you have said is not only correct....but there is evidence to back it up. If you check my past posts, I like you have said that Hyundais have improved, and will contniue to...if not, then they will fall either further behind. My point is simple, if anyone thinks that Honda and Toyota is going to sit around and wait for Hyundai and others to catch up then they are sadly mistaken. Those two companies did not sit around and wait for others to do things....they lead....they don't follow. From the early Civics to the Mini-Vans....If Mr. Backy wants to think that we are bashing Hyundai then that is his right....but all I have stated as well as you is nothing but pure facts. Look at the 06 Civic.....another marvel.....and the nay-sayers are waiting for the 06 Civic to fall on its face! What generation of Civic are we in now? And yet....they are a market leader again....doesn't matter if it is a Coupe, Sedan, Auto, 5/6 Speed....Bottom line is this.....Honda is the most reliable, safe, and one of the highest resale car on the market...period! And with designs like the new Civic, the soon to be released Honda Fit, and the list goes on....this will never end... One last note.....some people in this forum seem to think that Hyundai was just introduced to this country a couple of years ago......check the records....see when they first started to be sold here in this country....then check the sales records, check any car media forum and see how many good write ups they have received since being sold here....not many, and the ones that have been, was in the past couple of years.....so let's not act like they were just introduced here in this country....Like I said rutger3.....you were right on with your post!!!!
I never said C/D said the Sonata is better than the Accord. They haven't done a comparo of the two yet. But they did review the Sonata in the August issue, so I'll leave it to you to read that review.
At least take time to read someone's posts before attacking them, OK?
...check any car media forum and see how many good write ups they have received since being sold here....not many, and the ones that have been, was in the past couple of years...
And everything you have stated is "nothing but pure facts"? That last comment was a great example of pure fiction. The good reviews, and there have been many of them, on Hyundais started at least five years ago. "Facts" aren't facts just because you say they are.
No one is disputing the '06 Civic is at or near the top of its class (well, maybe the Mazda3 fans are...). So let's talk about this fine car! For example, I am looking forward to seeing the IIHS and NHTSA crash test results. It will be interesting to see how Honda's safety engineering and all the safety features on the new Civic have paid off.
to compare the Mazda 3 with a civic.. I own a Mazda 3 5-door and think of getting a new Civic as a second car. Clearly, the civic is more economical (cheaper, better mileage..) but no match for the Mazda. Heated seats, Xenon headlights, a real hatchback trunk, more room, 4 wheel disc braks.... the brain goes for the civic, but the heart for the Mazda. Both cars are great, though. In their class. But my Mazda is more comparable to an Accord (Technology, size) but cheaper and has more equippment available. and believe me, once you drove with Xenon headlights you never want to go back to the candle-lights all the other cars offer. Taste is personal though, but when I lok at the Mazda 5-door and see the spacy-lloking civic... Anyway, the civic will probably be the second car because it still is great and economical. Somehow I think when you stick to the 3 Japanese brands honda, Toyota and Mazda you can't be that wrong. All three have pros and cons... but ingeneral their owners are happy. Depends on what you want... whoever compares Hyundai/Kia to the [non-permissible content removed] brands.... did you eve have a close look at the body work? No gap is even, nothing is straight... they all look like they were in an accident and got a six-pack-job repair. I don't know about the new Sonata, but the other Korean cars have bad body work. And honestly, Elantra & Co look like they got rear ended.... Well, if the choice was between Hyundai/Kia nad American brands, I'd go for Korea. But when the Japanese cars are available too..... 2000$ price difference don't do it for me. That I easily get back when I sell the Honda.And how often do you need to service a car? the Honda every 10000 miles. The Korean ones every 5000 miles. how often does the 400$ timing belt have to be replaced? every 36000 miles with the hyundai, but only after 110000 miles with the 2005 Honda (Toyota has a chain, I don't know about the 2006 Civic, does that have a chain too?). So, there you spend all the money you thought you saved by byuing a cheap car. and if the price is the only thing you like about the car, then you won't be happy with that for 5 years....
When has Honda not led the way in Safety....or at least one of the top players. The new 06 Civic will do just fine....in fact I bet the Civic will get the top grade that NHTSA gives...which is "Good" if I am not mistaken. The "five year ago remark".....I call you on it...take any Hyundai model....doesn't matter....compare it to the same type Honda model....do the 5 year cost of ownership test...see who is the clear winner....I know who it is....and I think you do to....again, pick any model...that's how confident I am in my facts.... how about yours...and one last think....answer my question (if you will) when did Hyundai first start selling it's brand in the U.S.?
the Civic is still dwarfed by an Accord. I think it looks bigger than it actually is when you see it by itself, but it did grow a little from the previous generation (in most dimensions).
I expect the '06 Civic will do very well on the crash tests too, although the IIHS tests are tougher than the NHTSA tests. Recall that Honda asked the IIHS to not test the '05 Civic in the tough side impact test. Honda had obviously done its own testing (all carmakers do) and knew what the result would be--not good. That is not a knock on Honda, as only two compacts have received an "Acceptable" score on that tough test, both equipped with optional side curtains: Corolla and Cobalt. So Honda was smart to get the IIHS to agree to hold off on the test until the '06 Civic was available. With its standard side bags and curtains and, I am sure, stronger structure than the '05, it will probably do very well.
I will ignore your other remarks because they are off topic and besides, you completely twisted the topic that we were discussing. The year when Hyundai first started selling cars in the U.S. is public record--and is also off our topic here.
However, if you insist on the 5-year costs of ownership:
Unfortunately, Edmunds.com hasn't published the 5-year costs for the '06 Accord yet. So let's adjust the '05 costs for the increased TMV price of the '06 vs. the '05: $21,555 for the '05 vs. $25,440 for the '06. Also add sales tax (6.5% for me) on that difference, which adds $4138, or $.055 cents a mile to the costs of the Accord. So the comparison of the '06 Sonata to the comparable Honda is $.47/mile for the Hyundai vs. $.515 for the Honda.
Can we stop this Hyundai bashing now and focus on the Civic?
I will when you start answering the question.....I said to take a model from five years ago from Hyundai and compare it to a same type model of Honda.....since you said Hyundai has been having good reviews for the past five years....
By the way....your comparing a TMV price for an outgoing model....which has incentives on it to a brand new model.....sounds like fuzzy math to me..... That's like comparing the outgoing Accent model TMV to the re-designed model (when it comes out)....doesn't make sense.
And your right....I'm done with you.....every single post that has been made between these two models all point in the same direction....Honda is a better car, in all areas period! You only respond to the things that you think will hold weight!
Back to the Civic.... And to answer my own question...Hyundai's first car sold in the U.S. was in 1986! You would think after 20 years....they would be allot closer to Honda/Toyota! Wishful thinking!
"just for the fact that their pricing was similar." You really dismiss and minimize that point. Most people shopping Accords and Sonatas are slightly more price sensitive than those shopping BMWs and Ferraris. The point of the review is to show what you could get for a certain price point. Some people have a limit on what they want to spend.
The "five year ago remark".....I call you on it...take any Hyundai model....doesn't matter....compare it to the same type Honda model....do the 5 year cost of ownership test...see who is the clear winner....I know who it is....and I think you do to....again, pick any model...that's how confident I am in my facts.... how about yours
I did exactly what you challenged me to do. I can't help it if you don't like the results. As for the math, I was very clear in the adjustments I made to make up for the lack of 5-year cost estimates for the '06 Accord, and for the rebates that Edmunds.com didn't credit for the Sonata.
It is amazing how far Hyundai has come in just 20 years, especially their progress in the past five years.
herrkaleu wrote: "whoever compares Hyundai/Kia to the [non-permissible content removed] brands.... did you eve have a close look at the body work? No gap is even, nothing is straight... they all look like they were in an accident and got a six-pack-job repair. I don't know about the new Sonata, but the other Korean cars have bad body work. And honestly, Elantra & Co look like they got rear ended...."
Apparently, you haven't done a side-by-side comparison of 2005-2006 versions of these cars. First of all, I'm not beholden to any of the marques, i.e. Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Subaru, or Toyota.
I seriously looked at the 2005 Civic prior to the new generation's launch, and compared the exterior fit and finish to other brands, including the Hyundai Elantra and Kia Spectra. I also did the same on the 2005-2006 Accord, 2005-2006 Toyota Camry, and 2006 Hyundai Sonata. From scrutinizing each, the exterior body panel alignment, seams, sheetmetal crease lines, etc., the Korean marques were every bit as good as either the Honda or Toyota, and in some examples (or more specifically, samples viewed) better.
This does not imply one is better than the other, simply visual inspection of the exterior body fit. Early Korean cars were not of good quality - I will certainly grant you that -, but in many respects, neither were the Honda and Toyotas of the '60's and early '70s. I know because I had the unfortunate luck of owning them.
...of how well any given vehicle is built is determined by doing long term testing. Any vehicle can be a pleasure to drive and have many positive attributes when new, but are those qualities just as impressive when that vehicle hits 100K miles? Since there aren't many of these types of comparisons done by the professionals, it's up to the consumer to do this type of research. I have the adavantage of having a brother-in-law who has worked as a car salesman for years. He has told me and continues to tell me it's very common to get Hondas and Toyotas on trade with 100K and even 200K miles that run as good, drive as nice, are as quiet, and remain as rattle free as a new car. He also tells me that it's extemely rare to get a Korean vehicle on trade with that many miles that isn't ready for the junk yard. They simply don't hold up as well because they aren't built as well. Now some of you may be willing to give the Koreans a free ride by assuming they have closed the build quality gap, but they are going to have to prove they have to me before I'm willing to jump on the Korean bandwagon. As of yet they haven't done so.
We are here to talk about the Civic. We can do all the comparisons we want on the Sedans Comparisons board, but let's let this discussion stay focused specifically on the new Civic and not keep getting sidetracked with these comparisons here. Anyone who wants to do so is welcome to fire up a comparo by clicking on that link and using the Add Discussion button.
Some of these differences of opinions are turning personal, and of course there is no need for that - so let's not go there, okay? It's easy enough to agree to disagree.
Also, I'm sure those of you who used the term meant no harm, but please keep in mind that "[non-permissible content removed]" is a derogatory ethnic slur - let's just spell it out to Japanese to convey our point - please.
I am in the market to replace my 02 Accord SE (manual) coming off lease. I am looking to "downsize" hence the Civic, Mazda3, and Corolla are my choices in this area (won't look at others in this arena, not going there). Corolla is out - too dowdy for me. Went to test drive the Civic tonight but dealer had no manuals to test drive, so I only got to sit in one. Although the digital speedo thing does not impress me, I know I can probably live with it. However, when I sat in the car I found that deep dash seemed to rise fairly high where it meets the windshield and gives the impression of being hard to see over. I am 5' 10", and I cranked the seat up somewhat, but still looked awkward to me. Obviously I need to drive it to really see this out properly, but it threw me off. Also, the lack of arm rest/cup holders in the rear (will not go up to an EX) is a glaring omission given that I have kids.
I want to like this car as currently it is the best bang for the $ in terms of safety features (ABS and airbags all around - again the kids), but this dash seems too much for me. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it an issue that takes getting used to when driving?
I really like the new Civic (sedan) overall, but I can't get myself to like two aspects of the body exterior:
a) The shape of the front bumper seems odd to me - the rake seems to be a bit too much, particularly since it follows the contour of the body. I guess the designers wanted to keep the design in line with that of the windshield, but I can't help thinking that a small break in the contour near the bumper may not have been too bad.
b) The tail lights irk me no end. The way the lights taper inwards does not look elegant at all in my opinion (reminds me for some reason of a wide knife - like a cleaver :surprise: )
I know styling is extremely subjective, but wanted to know if there are others who feel the same way I do?
Hi, I noticed that when I'm coasting, clutch completely depressed and I switch to first gear with the clutch still depressed the car makes a different and slightly louder whirring sound. When I switch out of first gear it changes. The clutch is pressed completely the whole time.
Comments
I test drove both the 05 Mazda 3 S sedan and the 06 Honda Civic EX sedan. I liked them both, but I bought the Civic.
The main reason wasn't the engine, wheels, leather seats or Xenon headlights.
It was comfort.
I'm 6' 1" and 215lbs. My head rubbed the ceiling in the Mazda 3 with the moonroof, even with the seat all the way down, and the drivers leg room was very tight. The length of the leg room was OK, but the width of the area where your feet sit for the clutch, brake and gas pedals was cramped. My right leg also rubbed on the center console. The Civic is much more comfortable. I know some folks don't like the position of the emergency brake handle, but it's not a problem for me.
I didn't like the Mazda's rear seat leg room either. My 14 year old daughter's knees were into the back of the front seats. She sits very comfortably in the 06 Civic.
I remember telling my wife how much I enjoyed driving the Mazda 3 despite the lack of leg and head room and tried to rationalize that maybe I was overreacting to the negative aspects of my first test drive and so I went back and drove one again, but nothing changed and after I test drove the 06 Civic, that was it.
I don't like sitting in a sardine can. Zoom Zoom Zoom, not.
Well....what a car. Load buzzy motor, no acceleration, and very noisy interior. I didn't feel quite safe in this "entry-level" car. It felt like a Geo from early 90s. After getting my Honda back, I knew why I spent extra to get the refined Honda. I gave the dealer some lip service after that fiasco. Next visit, they gave me a loaner '05 accord. That's how you treat customers.
It's interesting that whenever I've mentioned to a Honda or Toyota dealer that I would be comparing their cars to Hyundais, they've never said, "Oh, that's a really good idea! Go over there and drive those cars, and you'll see how great the Honda/Toyota is in comparison--well worth the extra money!" Instead, I got either bad-mouthing of the Koreans ("Don't you know they are really poor quality and unreliable??") or just a simple "Oh."
And no, the "inside packaging" of the civic is not much better, on the contrary, mazda 3 especially the grand touring has a lot more upscale interior: chrome accents, bose audio, heated leather seats, neon illuminated gauges, leather wrapped sterring wheel, 6 cd in dash changer.
Are Paying (2006 Mazda 3 S Grand Touring)
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price
A note about advertising fees $19,165 $17,935 $18,841
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code Change - - $53
Optional Equipment $2,325 $2,035 $2,261
2MC Moonroof, 6-CD Package & Bose Audio Package $1,335 $1,148 $1,294
AT2 5-Speed Sport A/T $950 $855 $929
WLK Wheel Locks $40 $32 $38
Color Adjustment - - $0
Sunlight Silver Metallic
Destination Charge $560 $560 $560
Total with Options $22,050 $20,530 $21,715
21,715 That's what it costs. So for $2,215 more....you can get Xenon lamps and leather seats. (I threw in the wheel locks cause I got mine at No Charge.)
Honda's will always out sale Hyundais.... especially in the near future....I will be the first to admit that Hyundais have made fairly good progress in the quality of their cars.... but c'mon....they are not even in the same class as Honda and Toyota's....
So unless Honda and Toyota fall off the face of the earth.... Hyundais will never catch them in total sales... for any model... period! Hyundai has a long warranty right? Well take a close look at what is covered under that warranty and you will be surprised when you take it to the dealership for the tenth time in one year and hear those famous words...."Oh, that's not covered under warranty"....so what good is a 10 year warranty if it covers nothing....and if you want proof...come talk to my neighbor who has one....his so called SUV spents more time in the shop then he does driving it! So if I was a bettin' man....and in this case I would be....I would bet that Honda out sells Hyundai in any model....period! And if you did a long term test...oh let's say 5 years.....which car....the Civic, Accent, or Rio do you think would spend the most time in the shop? Which car do you think would maintain it's resale value the most? One last thing....any Honda salesman would not care one bit if you went to the Hyundai Dealer...because their product is proven...the other...not so much! So by all means...stroll over and buy your Accent, Rio....doesn't matter what year....hell, wait for the remodel....bottom line...when I am driving my Honda product down the road trouble free....I will see your car in the repair stall...while you are in the waiting room sipping a diet soda...
good luck...and happy motoring!
GM, Ford and DC outsell Honda, but I don't think their cars are better than Hondas.
I admit, though, I had to have one of my Hyundais in the shop just today. (No diet soda, though--the dealer drove me home and I came back later to pick it up.) It's five years old, so things are bound to start falling apart on the thing, right? Anyway, I had to have the oil changed (the darn stuff wore out, can you imagine that!?!?) and they replaced one of the rear license plate lights. That bum bulb is enough right there to make me ditch that loser of a car and get a Honda! :P
Honda is better for:
Smoother, quieter engine! (not quite as fast, but close enough, especially given the superior smoothness)
Superior mileage. (important for commuting 20K + per year)
Comfort. The seats are much better, especially in the longer length of the seat bottoms (Mazda's are too short). The ride is also smoother. Yes, this is at the expense of handling -- but the overall combination is better.
Instrumentation. both take some getting used to. I find the Mazda's boy-racer dash with bright red lights annoying, and the counterclockwise-rotated speedometer is very busy and dificult to read. (40 mph is about where 5 mph is on a normal speedo). No one will argue that the Honda speedo is difficult. Mazda audio and AC controls are not easy. Honda's are.
Stereo. Both are good. Honda's is better. Whatshisname goes on and on about the 6-disc Mazda changer, but my Honda plays MP3 discs (standard on cheaper LX, extra cost on top-end Mazda). I can burn 10 full albums on one CD, and change from one album to the next in about two seonds. No changer can do that.
Mazda is clearly faster, and the handling is fantastic. It corners like it's on rails.
That's just not what I need for mostly highway driving.
GM, Ford, DC outsell Honda..... your right! Where is Hyundai on that list.... oh that's right..... right above suzuki....
By the way... what is the #1 selling car in America?? Could it be a Ford??....no...Could it be a GM product??no.... Could it be a Hyundai??.... Let's get real!!! Could it be the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord? (These guys go back and forth all the time... although the Camry has the edge). I wonder why that is?
Could it be that both models have a solid reputation with plenty of proof all over the place to back it up??? The Accord making the 10 best list for 19 years in a row??
Those darn Honda products don't deserve that big "H" on front and back of their cars.... they need to remove them ASAP!!! And just for giggles....step on over to the "Real World Trade In Value" page and scroll around until you find where someone was asking the "great car god" Terry about trading in their 2005 Honda Accord for a 2006 Hyundai Sonata.....then take a look at his response...point blank and to the point....
By the way....after they replace that light bulb....and change out that darn oil that seems to be wearing out all the time....place that bad boy in the local classified ad....it will fall under the entire row of other Hyundais people are trying to unload....
And see what you get for it....of course if I had my choice....I would bypass your Hyundai and head straight for Starbucks for a cup of joe....which by the way are worth the same amount.....Happy Motoring....................
Maybe you and others who think these claims are ridiculous should stop bashing Hyundais, go write your protest emails to Edmunds.com, C/D, and other third parties that are making these claims, and let us get back to talking about the '06 Civic.
You can be sure the designers at Honda don't take Hyundai as lightly as some of the posters here to be sure. As Hyundai cars stay on the road longer and longer, their reputation for long term reliability will grow. If they can't stay on the road as commuter cars for 10-15 years and 200k+ miles, their reputation won't grow. But that takes time obviously and we'll need another 5 or so years to see if that happens. Funny thing is, once their reputation grows, their bargain pricing days will over.
Honda fired their salvo, and while I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, it looks like a good one. I too am interested in what the next Elantra looks like since it's been six years since the last one already. You can bet Honda is interested as well.
I see that you want to give props to the Korean cars when it suits you.... but when valid points are made (about resale, reliability, 5 year ownership costs, safety issues, etc, etc, the list goes on.....) you have no comments. I don't care which magazine you read, what web page, or any media you read....in the end they read the same way....Honda, Toyota....outstanding.....Korean cars....making progress....but??? That's why I said before, unless H & T's fall off the face of the earth....Korean cars will not match them in tech, resale, reliability, etc....at least not in our lifetime.....
Oh BTW, Hyundai, Kia, Suzuki, and the other companies can stop comparing their insignificant recyclemobiles to the new Civic. As ridiculous as it was that they compared their cars to the previous gen Civic, it would be absolutely hidious to compare to the new one. The new Civic is simply in a different league than any of their vehicles.
I have lots to say about the resale, reliability, ownership costs etc., but this isn't the place for it. If you want to continue to bash Hyundais here instead of talking about Civics, be my guest.
curtc, I faced the same decision you did, Elantra GT vs. others, but since the Civic didn't come in a 5-door (and the GT was fully loaded with leather etc. for $13k), it was a very easy decision in favor of the GT for me.
chidro and bamacar, I appreciate your thoughtful comments, but let's get back to the Civic and let the Hyundai-bashers carry on if they want to.
Edmunds chose to compare 4 cyl camcords v/s a 6 cyl Sonata, just for the fact that their pricing was similar. By that logic, BMWs would be the world's worst cars, and never win any comparos. I am waiting for the 10Best issue for CD, let's see if the improved Sonata can finally dethrone the Accord off that list.
IMO, Hyundai definitely has stepped up a few notches, and I am sure Hon/Toy will be watching them more than any other manufacturer. Even the Azera is getting rave reviews, and this competition just makes things better for us consumers.
I guess I am off topic, so will back off now.
Everything you have said is not only correct....but there is evidence to back it up.
If you check my past posts, I like you have said that Hyundais have improved, and will contniue to...if not, then they will fall either further behind. My point is simple,
if anyone thinks that Honda and Toyota is going to sit around and wait for Hyundai and others to catch up then they are sadly mistaken. Those two companies did not sit around and wait for others to do things....they lead....they don't follow. From the early Civics to the Mini-Vans....If Mr. Backy wants to think that we are bashing Hyundai then that is his right....but all I have stated as well as you is nothing but pure facts. Look at the 06 Civic.....another marvel.....and the nay-sayers are waiting for the 06 Civic to fall on its face! What generation of Civic are we in now? And yet....they are a market leader again....doesn't matter if it is a Coupe, Sedan, Auto, 5/6 Speed....Bottom line is this.....Honda is the most reliable, safe, and one of the highest resale car on the market...period! And with designs like the new Civic, the soon to be released Honda Fit, and the list goes on....this will never end...
One last note.....some people in this forum seem to think that Hyundai was just introduced to this country a couple of years ago......check the records....see when they first started to be sold here in this country....then check the sales records, check any car media forum and see how many good write ups they have received since being sold here....not many, and the ones that have been, was in the past couple of years.....so let's not act like they were just introduced here in this country....Like I said rutger3.....you were right on with your post!!!!
At least take time to read someone's posts before attacking them, OK?
And everything you have stated is "nothing but pure facts"? That last comment was a great example of pure fiction. The good reviews, and there have been many of them, on Hyundais started at least five years ago. "Facts" aren't facts just because you say they are.
No one is disputing the '06 Civic is at or near the top of its class (well, maybe the Mazda3 fans are...). So let's talk about this fine car! For example, I am looking forward to seeing the IIHS and NHTSA crash test results. It will be interesting to see how Honda's safety engineering and all the safety features on the new Civic have paid off.
I own a Mazda 3 5-door and think of getting a new Civic as a second car. Clearly, the civic is more economical (cheaper, better mileage..) but no match for the Mazda. Heated seats, Xenon headlights, a real hatchback trunk, more room, 4 wheel disc braks....
the brain goes for the civic, but the heart for the Mazda. Both cars are great, though. In their class. But my Mazda is more comparable to an Accord (Technology, size) but cheaper and has more equippment available. and believe me, once you drove with Xenon headlights you never want to go back to the candle-lights all the other cars offer.
Taste is personal though, but when I lok at the Mazda 5-door and see the spacy-lloking civic...
Anyway, the civic will probably be the second car because it still is great and economical. Somehow I think when you stick to the 3 Japanese brands honda, Toyota and Mazda you can't be that wrong. All three have pros and cons... but ingeneral their owners are happy. Depends on what you want...
whoever compares Hyundai/Kia to the [non-permissible content removed] brands.... did you eve have a close look at the body work? No gap is even, nothing is straight... they all look like they were in an accident and got a six-pack-job repair. I don't know about the new Sonata, but the other Korean cars have bad body work. And honestly, Elantra & Co look like they got rear ended....
Well, if the choice was between Hyundai/Kia nad American brands, I'd go for Korea. But when the Japanese cars are available too..... 2000$ price difference don't do it for me. That I easily get back when I sell the Honda.And how often do you need to service a car? the Honda every 10000 miles. The Korean ones every 5000 miles. how often does the 400$ timing belt have to be replaced? every 36000 miles with the hyundai, but only after 110000 miles with the 2005 Honda (Toyota has a chain, I don't know about the 2006 Civic, does that have a chain too?). So, there you spend all the money you thought you saved by byuing a cheap car.
and if the price is the only thing you like about the car, then you won't be happy with that for 5 years....
The new 06 Civic will do just fine....in fact I bet the Civic will get the top grade that NHTSA gives...which is "Good" if I am not mistaken.
The "five year ago remark".....I call you on it...take any Hyundai model....doesn't matter....compare it to the same type Honda model....do the 5 year cost of ownership test...see who is the clear winner....I know who it is....and I think you do to....again, pick any model...that's how confident I am in my facts.... how about yours...and one last think....answer my question (if you will) when did Hyundai first start selling it's brand in the U.S.?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I will ignore your other remarks because they are off topic and besides, you completely twisted the topic that we were discussing. The year when Hyundai first started selling cars in the U.S. is public record--and is also off our topic here.
However, if you insist on the 5-year costs of ownership:
'06 Sonata GLS V6: $.50/mile - $2,130 addt'l rebates/tax savings = $.47/mile
'05 Accord LX V6: $.46/mile
Unfortunately, Edmunds.com hasn't published the 5-year costs for the '06 Accord yet. So let's adjust the '05 costs for the increased TMV price of the '06 vs. the '05: $21,555 for the '05 vs. $25,440 for the '06. Also add sales tax (6.5% for me) on that difference, which adds $4138, or $.055 cents a mile to the costs of the Accord. So the comparison of the '06 Sonata to the comparable Honda is $.47/mile for the Hyundai vs. $.515 for the Honda.
Can we stop this Hyundai bashing now and focus on the Civic?
By the way....your comparing a TMV price for an outgoing model....which has incentives on it to a brand new model.....sounds like fuzzy math to me.....
That's like comparing the outgoing Accent model TMV to the re-designed model (when it comes out)....doesn't make sense.
And your right....I'm done with you.....every single post that has been made between these two models all point in the same direction....Honda is a better car, in all areas period! You only respond to the things that you think will hold weight!
Back to the Civic....
And to answer my own question...Hyundai's first car sold in the U.S. was in 1986!
You would think after 20 years....they would be allot closer to Honda/Toyota!
Wishful thinking!
You really dismiss and minimize that point.
Most people shopping Accords and Sonatas are slightly more price sensitive than those shopping BMWs and Ferraris.
The point of the review is to show what you could get for a certain price point. Some people have a limit on what they want to spend.
The "five year ago remark".....I call you on it...take any Hyundai model....doesn't matter....compare it to the same type Honda model....do the 5 year cost of ownership test...see who is the clear winner....I know who it is....and I think you do to....again, pick any model...that's how confident I am in my facts.... how about yours
I did exactly what you challenged me to do. I can't help it if you don't like the results. As for the math, I was very clear in the adjustments I made to make up for the lack of 5-year cost estimates for the '06 Accord, and for the rebates that Edmunds.com didn't credit for the Sonata.
It is amazing how far Hyundai has come in just 20 years, especially their progress in the past five years.
Apparently, you haven't done a side-by-side comparison of 2005-2006 versions of these cars. First of all, I'm not beholden to any of the marques, i.e. Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Subaru, or Toyota.
I seriously looked at the 2005 Civic prior to the new generation's launch, and compared the exterior fit and finish to other brands, including the Hyundai Elantra and Kia Spectra. I also did the same on the 2005-2006 Accord, 2005-2006 Toyota Camry, and 2006 Hyundai Sonata. From scrutinizing each, the exterior body panel alignment, seams, sheetmetal crease lines, etc., the Korean marques were every bit as good as either the Honda or Toyota, and in some examples (or more specifically, samples viewed) better.
This does not imply one is better than the other, simply visual inspection of the exterior body fit. Early Korean cars were not of good quality - I will certainly grant you that -, but in many respects, neither were the Honda and Toyotas of the '60's and early '70s. I know because I had the unfortunate luck of owning them.
We are here to talk about the Civic. We can do all the comparisons we want on the Sedans Comparisons board, but let's let this discussion stay focused specifically on the new Civic and not keep getting sidetracked with these comparisons here. Anyone who wants to do so is welcome to fire up a comparo by clicking on that link and using the Add Discussion button.
Some of these differences of opinions are turning personal, and of course there is no need for that - so let's not go there, okay? It's easy enough to agree to disagree.
Also, I'm sure those of you who used the term meant no harm, but please keep in mind that "[non-permissible content removed]" is a derogatory ethnic slur - let's just spell it out to Japanese to convey our point - please.
Thanks!
I want to like this car as currently it is the best bang for the $ in terms of safety features (ABS and airbags all around - again the kids), but this dash seems too much for me. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it an issue that takes getting used to when driving?
a) The shape of the front bumper seems odd to me - the rake seems to be a bit too much, particularly since it follows the contour of the body. I guess the designers wanted to keep the design in line with that of the windshield, but I can't help thinking that a small break in the contour near the bumper may not have been too bad.
b) The tail lights irk me no end. The way the lights taper inwards does not look elegant at all in my opinion (reminds me for some reason of a wide knife - like a cleaver :surprise: )
I know styling is extremely subjective, but wanted to know if there are others who feel the same way I do?
Is this normal or does it indicate a problem?