The regular Accord 3.0L V6 mileage is 21/30 while the regular (non VCM) Odyssey mileage is 19/25 (20/28 with VCM). The Accord mileage rose to 30/37 with VCM/Hybrid, with a hybrid drivetrain that was designed for high performance than higher mileage.
I think if the Odyssey were developed with a hybrid system having a "mileage" orientation, then mileage of 30/40 is not out of range.
26mpg in performance testing by a car magazine is not unusual. But if they had a long term Accord hybrid tester, its mileage would have been more indicative of that obtainable in the real world.
The Sienna driver and front passenger seat are comfortable for me BUT the 2nd row is not. The 2005 DC minivan seats are more comfortable for me than my 2002 T&C LX but the Odyssey seats are the best of all minivans. We have not looked closely at MDX or Volvo as each vehicle seems too small after sitting in an Odyssey.
I guess you are technically correct, but given that no other tires will currently fit PAX rims, it may be a moot point.
My contention was that PAX rim diameters are metric, unlike ALL other tires presently on the market, so one can either wait for other manufactureres to step up to the plate with options (good luck with that!), or get replacement Michelin PAX tires, or replace BOTH the tires and the wheels, and thus possibly lose the TPS system.
I can see why PAX tires would have an adavantage, but I would lke greater options before I jump on the bandwagon. I remember the TRX experiment still.
BTW, I continue to enjoy your posts. Please keep up the good contributions here.
I have been a silent reader of this list for a while. Just replaced my 2001 Ody (Granite Green and Grey leather) for a 2005 EXL with Nav and DVD (Beige and Ivory leather). Love the Ody.
We were tired of a grey interior -- too depressing for us. Hope Honda never does away with Ivory (i.e., light) interiors -- clearly a personal choice.
Just had the dealer install the third-row sunshades because my 3 year old daughter sits there and hates the sun in her eyes. They cracked one of the side panels while doing the job but are being good about replacing it quickly. The other side was installed properly and works well.
The Ody has quickly become our favorite car (also have a Volvo and an ML 430).
As you can see from my previous two posts, I am a happy ODY customer (just replaced my 01 with an 05 EXL with Nav and DVD).
My opinion is that Honda product managers made a major mistake in the 2005 ODY that almost prevented us from buying the van:
There is ONLY one child seat tether anchor for the third row seats. My 2001 Ody had three separate tether anchors that enabled me to put at least two child seats in the third row (we have three kids).
Can anybody guess why they dropped two of the three tether anchors in the back? Does Honda not expect owners to put more than one child seat in the third row? I am very puzzled by this because they got so many other things right. Maybe this is because I am one of a minority that need this, but it seems such a cheap and simple thing to include.
We ultimately reluctantly convinced ourselves that we would attach two tethers to the same single tether point in the back -- but that turned out to be difficult to do and makes my son's car seat tilt to one side so he is sitting at an angle.
Why did we still upgrade? Primarily for the enhanced safety features -- side airbags, side curtains airbags, ACE structure -- and for the eighth seat.
I think most people with full size car seats use the second row (which in theory now can hold 3). I guess they figure that kids in the 3rd row would be big enough to get in by themselves, so they sould be using booster seats with the regular seat belts?
When we had regular car seats, they didn't even have tether anchors i don't think.
As with everything else, one persons show stopper is irrelevant to someone else.
My guess would be that Honda spent a great deal of time weighing the pros and cons of the PAX tires. I'm sure they thought and hoped that this would be looked at as a major advantage rather than a negative and I think most people feel the same way.
I would also guess that this system will become mch more widespread and competitive as time go's by. The other major tire makers aren't about to stand by and watch Michelin dominate the market on these.
If 'most people feel the same way,' then why are so many buyers opting for EX-L to avoid them? The marketplace has already determined that the EX-L with NAV/RES is a far better value than the Touring, and the PAX system is one reason why. Funny how that works.
As of now, these tires are only available on the Odyssey Touring and the Rolls-Royce Phantom. If that's watching 'Michelin dominate the market,' then so be it.
A mileage orientation would result in a van with unacceptable highway performance. The major benefit of such a hybrid van would be in prolonged city driving. On the highway a fully loaded Odyssey hybrid has to accelerate quickly enough to avoid dangerous situations such as merging onto a freeway or passing another vehicle. An underpowered van would require heavy use of the accelerator, and the kind of mileage that C/D got would probably be typical.
Another factor is Honda's competitive position with respect to Toyota, which is taking a performance orientation on its upscale hybrids. Like the Accord, Honda would have to produce an Odyssey hybrid that offers comparable or slightly better acceleration and somewhat better gas mileage, especially in stop-and-go driving.
"- The lack of an 8th seat(belt)... - Being forced to go with PAX"
You hit the nail on the head. The two biggest gripes I have about the Touring (besides the added price of 4-5 G). I wish EX-L had the power liftgate option though.
You are absolutely right -- everyone has different needs. My primary frustration is why they decided to do away with something that seems to be so simple and cheap!
BTW, you cannot put three full-size childseats into any row (2nd or 3rd). And these days we have childseats that go up to 65 lbs (or even 80 lbs in a couple of cases) -- which means your child is wearing a five-point safety harness longer and has much better head and side-impact protection than a booster could ever provide. Safety conscious parents are buying up these childseats like crazy (the Britax Marathon is one of the best selling seats on the market).
The problem with putting two large 65 lb childseats in the second row is that then it becomes pretty difficult to get to the third row (e.g., when my in-laws are with us, etc.). It's pretty logical to want the older kids to get into the third row and buckle themselves in (which ours can do easily), while our third child is in the second row in an infant seat.
'Nuff said. I am probably boring everybody with this -- sorry.
I love this forum and I am amazed at myself for putting in four posts in the first day that I have decided to not be silent any more!
Heywood, about 90% of the negative comments I've heard on the PAX system have come from YOU!
I'm sure some people read your strong opinions and get turned off because of them. So be it.
"As of now" as you state, only two manufacturers are using PAX? I don't know. For all any of us know, this could be the beginning of widespread use of PAX type wheels and tires or maybe not.
Hopefully, Honda did a ton of research and long term thinking before bringing this to market. I certainly expect and hope so.
On Saturday, I spent FIVE HOURS next to a Touring Odyssey at the Seattle Auto Show. I answered so many questions I'm still recovering.
I don't mind manual side doors and in fact, think I may prefer them (for safety with toddlers and for reliability reasons). If that's the case, are there other important things that are missing on an LX that would prompt me to move up to an EX, or are power doors really the main thing for most people? I remember on the 2004 that the LX's didn't have keyless entry (though it could be added), but I think this year's LX does.
Also, it seems like all the local dealers do not have any LX's at all. Is it because of something in the LX vs. the EX that cause people to "skip over" the LX or is it mainly to steer people towards the more expensive trims?
You are absolutely right -- everyone has different needs. My primary frustration is why they decided to do away with something that seems to be so simple and cheap!
BTW, you cannot put three full-size childseats into any row (2nd or 3rd). And these days we have childseats that go up to 65 lbs (or even 80 lbs in a couple of cases) -- which means your child is wearing a five-point safety harness longer and has much better head and side-impact protection than a booster could ever provide. Safety conscious parents are buying up these childseats like crazy (the Britax Marathon is one of the best selling seats on the market).
The problem with putting two large 65 lb childseats in the second row is that then it becomes pretty difficult to get to the third row (e.g., when my in-laws are with us, etc.). It's pretty logical to want the older kids to get into the third row and buckle themselves in (which ours can do easily), while our third child is in the second row in an infant seat.
'Nuff said. I am probably boring everybody with this -- sorry.
I love this forum and I am amazed at myself for putting in four posts in the first day that I have decided to not be silent any more!
They simply aren't nearly as popular as the EX's and above.
Odysseys are allocated to dealers based on the dealers volume. A large store like the one where I work might get 30 Odysseys a month. This is far less than we would like to get.
So, the sales managers are going to order what sells the best. For every LX they order, that's one less EXL they won't get. As a result, some of the smaller stores don't order ANY LX's.
We try to keep one or two around but they don't sell nearly as well as the higher end models.
Re: Pax tires. Heywood is correct. At this time, ONLY the RR Phantom and the Ody Touring (US market) are equipped with the PAX tire. And it is not because this is brand new technology. Michelin developed this technology several years ago but has had difficulty gaining acceptance for the system with car manufacturers. The system was introduced in Europe on several models of Renaults and as an option on the Audi A6 and A8. Renault has since stopped offering the PAX system on their vehicles.
The question that I would have as a consumer is this: Does PAX offer any advances over and above 'standard' runflats which would convince me to go with a proprietary system? What if I don't like those tires? Yes, other manufacturers ARE licensed to make PAX tires. But, since the ONLY market for these tires are the Ody Touring models and RR Phantoms, why should Goodyear/Bridgestone/Pirelli/etc. go to the expense of turning over production to very small run of tires which they then have to pay a liscensing fee to Michelin for every tire sold? If I were Goodyear et al, wouldn't it be in my best interests to see Michelin fail with their new tire rather than contribute to their success by making tires for them?
I'm not surprised in the slightest that you spent 5 hours responding to questions at a car show without a single inquiry about the PAX tires. For 99% of the public, what type of tire a car is equipped with doesn't even register on their radar. As long as it's round and black, they're happy.
The PAX tires could end up being a flop and a mistake for Honda. I recognize that. I also know it could go the other way. Their popularity could grow and the number of cars that go to these could increase.
I just don't like it when someone tries to instill fear in people by repeating the same opinion over and over again like it's some kind of crusade.
What is a minus for some is a big plus to others.
That is the only point I'm trying to make. Only time will determine whether these are embraced by the masses.
isellhondas, I think your recent posts are a tad too dealer biased.
The reason for so few LX's is not because of dealer orders, but more accurately because that is how Honda is allocating and building them. And based on sales, dealer inventory, and capacity, those allocations can and will be adjusted. EX's are the most popular and are "designed" to be the most popular by feature content and pricing (at least that is what the marketing team tries for).
On PAX. So what if no one asked. That goes both ways. To assume no one asked because it is a non-issue might be a bad one. On top of that, since no one asked, perhaps they see little value in PAX and are focusing on the features that are important to them.
For the record, I have an 05 Touring RES/NAV. The PAX tires will probably be a problem at some point, but I purchased inspite of that. The reason I think PAX will be an issue - consumer demand. Honda only forecasts Touring models at 15% of the 160,000 Odysseys produced annually. That is 24,000 vehicles per year if no other car manufacture adds PAX as standard equipement. Add on to that a 3-4 year tire life on average (15k miles per year), and the consumer demand picture starts looking a whole lot worse.
With those demand numbers (and the fact that tires are convered under warranty anyways), which one of those other tire manufactures are going to run and start producing PAX replacement tires? Fact is, there will not be any.
The big question Honda should have answered (and has no control over) - What competitors are going to embrace PAX and add them to their vehicles as standard equipement? Toyota? Ford? GM? Chysler? Nissan? My guess - none, as each has gone with the other run-flat solution somewhere in their brand families.
And if it comes to that Honda, you will be hearing from me and I am sure other PAX owners about our displeasure come replacement tire time given your semi misleading, pro-PAX press releases.
did anyone ever figure out if a spare can be added to the Touring, or is the storage space used up for something else (ie a subwoofer)? If you can stash a spare, then it would be possible to switch to regular tires at some point (if you were willing to pay for wheels also).
It sounds like I don't do a good job of stating my point of view here.
I have NEVER taken a "pro-PAX" position here. I see the pros and cons of them. I suspect Honda is thinking the usage of these will increase with time. I really don't know.
And, sorry, you are incorrect as to why such few LX's are produced and sold. Dealers tend to order what sells and turns over quickly. Most buyers (like yourself)seem to want the upgraded models.
And, of course I am going to sound biased. I do, however try to express my opinion based on my hands on experiences. I'm not here to drum up business.
I'm not trying to instill fear into anyone. I'm trying to make people aware that there is a difference between Michelin's proprietary PAX system and the conventional run-flats used by Toyota and other manufacturers. The fact that 'no one' asked you about the PAX tires at the auto show is probably just a reflection that they didn't even know to ask.
Honda must already know this problem for more than a month. Why don't the dealers fix the cars on their lots before selling them. It is wasting customer's time to bring back the cars for service.
IF the LX had the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger that I have on my lowly 2002 T&C LX. I do not want power sliding doors but would take them on an Ody EX so I could have the temperature control. The cast wheels of the EX are attractive but $3,000 is quite a price jump from the LX...and the sliding doors account for about $1,000 of the difference. DaimlerChrysler has had separately controlled temperature on almost every minivan model for 6 years are more. Honda has had the "Magic Seat" for 6 years now. Competition is great. The 2005 Odyssey puts the Odyssey once more at the top of the best minivan list.
I own a 2005 sage brush/olive and havent seen the ocean mist. I can tell you the colors are very nice, there is no hint of green in the green, its more like a grey/slate/blue sort of classy. the grey interior we saw was very bland, the olive is very nice, not too light, sort of skin color. One month into it, we love the color. our only other combo choice might have been slate green/olive, but when we saw it it blared out light grey/silver, the dealer even joked that you'd have to stare at it an hour to see any green
Absolutely they are trying to steer people to more expensive trim levels whode. The explanation that dealerships order the more popular levels because that is what people want is a faulty theory. A lot of people like you want an Odyssey LX(it comes fairly well loaded)...I've read many posts such as yours with similar complaints.A new model comes out...the demand is high. To maximize their profits the manufacturers will put out more of the higher priced models.The reasoning is that someone who wants an Odyssey will buy one...even if it means spending 2k more for a higher trim level.This happened as well with the 2004 Toyota Sienna CE model.The Toyota dealership I went to had to search half way across the country to find one. So, the theory that you are the only one in your state looking for an LX model is a bit of a stretch.
Can any owners make comments on the back up camera? Does the monitor automatically turn on when you shift to reverse or if there are other steps you must make before monitor turning on? Do you really need that beeping noise? Thanks in advance.
I'm impressed with the number of surveys Honda does about its vehicles. It sent me a four-page product quality survey asking about any problems with the interior, exterior, and operation of the Odyssey. I guess Honda sends this survey to every owner.
Yesterday I spent an hour doing a phone survey about the design of the Odyssey. It seemed to be a great opportunity to provide feedback to Honda about which features I thought were most important, what features were missing or should be standard, how important different attributes were to my decision to buy, etc. I was even asked how much extra I would pay for a hybrid version of the Odyssey.
I included suggestions mentioned on this forum, such as a telescoping steering wheel, adjustable pedals on the EX, memory seats that work with the mirrors, etc. Has anyone else done this survey or know how much impact it has with Honda?
I would like to do a survey like this. I bought my 05 Ody a couple of weeks ago. Any idea how you get onto this survey? Do they really send it to every new owner and then call them later? How long ago did you buy your Ody?
There's quite a bit more additional equipment on the EX than just the separate temp controls, power sliding doors, and alloy wheels.
• 120-watt AM/FM/XM®-ready/6-disc in-dash CD changer audio system with 6 speakers • Roof rails • Body-Colored Heated power mirrors • Body-Colored Rear Roofline Spoiler • Body-Colored Side Molding • Auto-off headlights • HomeLink® remote system • Conversation mirror with sunglasses holder • Steering wheel-mounted controls • Ambient console lighting • Driver's seat with 8-way power adjustment • Driver's seat with manual lumbar support • Stowable 2nd-row PlusOne Seat™ • Seat Back Pockets (Driver's side and 2nd-row) • Integrated sunshades (2nd-row) • In-floor storage with Lazy Susan • Security system • Cargo net • Exterior temperature indicator
It's up to each potential buyer to determine whether the value of the additional equipment is worth the $3000 to them. For my wife and I, we felt that between just the power doors, CD changer, PlusOne Seat™, and exterior styling(alloy wheels, roof rails, body-colored mirrors, spoiler, and molding), it was worth the additional 12% price tag. Things like the separate temp controls, heated mirrors, HomeLink®, power seat, sunshades, and security system made it an even greater value for us. That’s why we went from initially looking at the LX to actually buying an EX.
I would like to do a survey like this. I bought my 05 Ody a couple of weeks ago. Any idea how you get onto this survey? Do they really send it to every new owner and then call them later? How long ago did you buy your Ody?
I have an 05 EX-L with Nav and DVD. The NAV screen automatically displays the backup camera view when you put the Ody in reverse. You don't need to do anything else to make this happen.
There is no beeping noise with the backup camera. You need the park distance sensors (option on the EX-L) for that and I did not get them. I find that neither the backup camera nor the sensors are a good enough substitute for looking back and using proper judgment. The backup camera is helpful to alert you to kids or cars in the back, but doesn't give you good enough perspective to do finer adjustments in a difficult parking situation. This is just my opinion -- I just can't back up the Ody looking at just the camera in front, it just seems too risky that way.
I don't own a Lincoln Navigator, but I drove one for many miles for 7 days in California.
I think the Navigator looks very nice, especially on the interior. I also think the ride is very smooth and quiet. Given the fact that I've seen advertisements for $12K off MSRP at the end of the year also makes it very attractive. However, the reliability history of FORD vehicles is poor compared to Honda and the great features of the Ody compared to the Navigator are hard to pass up.
I agree with you 100% on going for the Ody Touring w/NAV! I would do the same. I would get Black Nighthawk Pearl with Black Leather Interior. Black, Silver, and Chrome would destroy the soccer-mom/dad image!
The Ody unfortunately still looks very much like a minivan, and not as cool looking as the Navigator or BMW X5, but the all positives like awesome NAV, RES, and PAX make up for the few negatives of the Ody.
Some people dislike PAX, but I think it's an awesome idea.
Consider cars like Rolls Royce and BMW760 have run-flat or PAX systems, isn't great to know that we can have the same system even though we're not millionaires?
Well, we currently have a new LX sitting on our lot that has had few prospects. the LX is, indeed, well equipped but most shoppers want the extra items that don't come on an LX.
If you read back through these forums you will see what I'm talking about. Same applies to the used ones we get. People walk right past the LX's. They want the EX with leather etc.
I think the LX more simply just has a harder time competing in the $25,000 minivan market. You can get a Dodge, Chrysler, Nissan, or Kia for $25,000 or less($$$$ off MSRP, Rebates, and Incentives) that will be much more feature-ful than the 2005 LX. When someone's budget keeps them below this dollar amount, I think they have a hard time passing up a mid to upper-mid level minivan from these other manufacturers than buying an entry level Honda Odyssey.
We are very much considering the 05 Ody but we still went to check out the Sienna, and the toyota person told us that the "lazy susan" space could compromise the van's saftey in an accident. Has anyone heard this or is it pure non-sense?
Thanks mot. That extra $ 3000 buys MUCH MORE than I had realized. I would chose the EX over LX so I could get separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger, 8 way power driver's seat with manual adjusted lumbar support and the cast wheels. I would prefer to not have the power sliding doors and save the extra $800 to $1,000 for them. The Ody EX with cloth interior gives a buyer the MOST TOTAL VALUE.
The Lazy Susan probably compromises safety in the Odyssey as much as the 60/40 fold-into-the-floor 3rd row seating of the Sienna or the power roll down windows in sliding doors.
Sounds like your BS detector went off. I know mine would have. I would suggest calling your Toyota salesperson back and asking them, "What evidence do you have to support your claim that the lazy susan compromises safety?".
How likely is it that anyone get in an accident that will impact the the bottom side of the van where the lazy susan sits, as opposed to a front, rear, side, offset or rollover situation? You might as well say that a direct hit on the gas tank compromises safety, but then how likely is that to happen?
If Toyota can't cite any evidence, then I'd say it's pure nonsense.
hansienna- We also wished we didn't have to "pay for" some features we didn't necessarily care about but ours were more the less significant features rather than the sliding doors. In any case, when thinking that we intend to have this vehicle for the next 10 years/100,000+ miles, it didn't seem like that much more to spend.
Pure Non-sense. How often will your car be hit from the BOTTOM? A pebble once in a while? Will it puncture steel? I don't think so. If the rock is big enough, maybe, but then, you'd probably be unable to get the rock flying high enough to hit the bottom of the car. And isellhondas, please let us know when someone buys that LX sitting on your lot. And tell us when you get an EX in, how long it takes to sell it. And an EX-L. An EX-L RES, and so on. It'd be interesting to know how long specific trim lines sit on dealer's lots.
jchan, why would any of that information be important to you? Most of our Odysseys are pre-sold before they land here. The least popular ones are the LX's followed by the EX cloths.
But, it's unpredictable. As an example, I had not sold a DX Accord for at least five years. Last summer I sold two in a two week period.
Comments
I think if the Odyssey were developed with a hybrid system having a "mileage" orientation, then mileage of 30/40 is not out of range.
26mpg in performance testing by a car magazine is not unusual. But if they had a long term Accord hybrid tester, its mileage would have been more indicative of that obtainable in the real world.
We have not looked closely at MDX or Volvo as each vehicle seems too small after sitting in an Odyssey.
My contention was that PAX rim diameters are metric, unlike ALL other tires presently on the market, so one can either wait for other manufactureres to step up to the plate with options (good luck with that!), or get replacement Michelin PAX tires, or replace BOTH the tires and the wheels, and thus possibly lose the TPS system.
I can see why PAX tires would have an adavantage, but I would lke greater options before I jump on the bandwagon. I remember the TRX experiment still.
BTW, I continue to enjoy your posts. Please keep up the good contributions here.
We were tired of a grey interior -- too depressing for us. Hope Honda never does away with Ivory (i.e., light) interiors -- clearly a personal choice.
Just had the dealer install the third-row sunshades because my 3 year old daughter sits there and hates the sun in her eyes. They cracked one of the side panels while doing the job but are being good about replacing it quickly. The other side was installed properly and works well.
The Ody has quickly become our favorite car (also have a Volvo and an ML 430).
- The lack of an 8th seat(belt) -- I thought minivans were primarily bought by people who need to cart around lots of other people.
- Being forced to go with PAX (I am not a PAX hater but I did not like not having an option).
My opinion is that Honda product managers made a major mistake in the 2005 ODY that almost prevented us from buying the van:
There is ONLY one child seat tether anchor for the third row seats. My 2001 Ody had three separate tether anchors that enabled me to put at least two child seats in the third row (we have three kids).
Can anybody guess why they dropped two of the three tether anchors in the back? Does Honda not expect owners to put more than one child seat in the third row? I am very puzzled by this because they got so many other things right. Maybe this is because I am one of a minority that need this, but it seems such a cheap and simple thing to include.
We ultimately reluctantly convinced ourselves that we would attach two tethers to the same single tether point in the back -- but that turned out to be difficult to do and makes my son's car seat tilt to one side so he is sitting at an angle.
Why did we still upgrade? Primarily for the enhanced safety features -- side airbags, side curtains airbags, ACE structure -- and for the eighth seat.
Why the obvious mistake Honda?
When we had regular car seats, they didn't even have tether anchors i don't think.
As with everything else, one persons show stopper is irrelevant to someone else.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My guess would be that Honda spent a great deal of time weighing the pros and cons of the PAX tires. I'm sure they thought and hoped that this would be looked at as a major advantage rather than a negative and I think most people feel the same way.
I would also guess that this system will become mch more widespread and competitive as time go's by. The other major tire makers aren't about to stand by and watch Michelin dominate the market on these.
As of now, these tires are only available on the Odyssey Touring and the Rolls-Royce Phantom. If that's watching 'Michelin dominate the market,' then so be it.
Another factor is Honda's competitive position with respect to Toyota, which is taking a performance orientation on its upscale hybrids. Like the Accord, Honda would have to produce an Odyssey hybrid that offers comparable or slightly better acceleration and somewhat better gas mileage, especially in stop-and-go driving.
- Being forced to go with PAX"
You hit the nail on the head. The two biggest gripes I have about the Touring (besides the added price of 4-5 G). I wish EX-L had the power liftgate option though.
Congrats, and enjoy your ride!
BTW, you cannot put three full-size childseats into any row (2nd or 3rd). And these days we have childseats that go up to 65 lbs (or even 80 lbs in a couple of cases) -- which means your child is wearing a five-point safety harness longer and has much better head and side-impact protection than a booster could ever provide. Safety conscious parents are buying up these childseats like crazy (the Britax Marathon is one of the best selling seats on the market).
The problem with putting two large 65 lb childseats in the second row is that then it becomes pretty difficult to get to the third row (e.g., when my in-laws are with us, etc.). It's pretty logical to want the older kids to get into the third row and buckle themselves in (which ours can do easily), while our third child is in the second row in an infant seat.
'Nuff said. I am probably boring everybody with this -- sorry.
I love this forum and I am amazed at myself for putting in four posts in the first day that I have decided to not be silent any more!
I'm sure some people read your strong opinions and get turned off because of them. So be it.
"As of now" as you state, only two manufacturers are using PAX? I don't know. For all any of us know, this could be the beginning of widespread use of PAX type wheels and tires or maybe not.
Hopefully, Honda did a ton of research and long term thinking before bringing this to market. I certainly expect and hope so.
On Saturday, I spent FIVE HOURS next to a Touring Odyssey at the Seattle Auto Show. I answered so many questions I'm still recovering.
NOT ONE person even asked about the PAX system.
I guess only time will tell, right?
Also, it seems like all the local dealers do not have any LX's at all. Is it because of something in the LX vs. the EX that cause people to "skip over" the LX or is it mainly to steer people towards the more expensive trims?
BTW, you cannot put three full-size childseats into any row (2nd or 3rd). And these days we have childseats that go up to 65 lbs (or even 80 lbs in a couple of cases) -- which means your child is wearing a five-point safety harness longer and has much better head and side-impact protection than a booster could ever provide. Safety conscious parents are buying up these childseats like crazy (the Britax Marathon is one of the best selling seats on the market).
The problem with putting two large 65 lb childseats in the second row is that then it becomes pretty difficult to get to the third row (e.g., when my in-laws are with us, etc.). It's pretty logical to want the older kids to get into the third row and buckle themselves in (which ours can do easily), while our third child is in the second row in an infant seat.
'Nuff said. I am probably boring everybody with this -- sorry.
I love this forum and I am amazed at myself for putting in four posts in the first day that I have decided to not be silent any more!
Here's why there are few LX's out there.
They simply aren't nearly as popular as the EX's and above.
Odysseys are allocated to dealers based on the dealers volume. A large store like the one where I work might get 30 Odysseys a month. This is far less than we would like to get.
So, the sales managers are going to order what sells the best. For every LX they order, that's one less EXL they won't get. As a result, some of the smaller stores don't order ANY LX's.
We try to keep one or two around but they don't sell nearly as well as the higher end models.
Same thing applies to the used ones we get.
The question that I would have as a consumer is this: Does PAX offer any advances over and above 'standard' runflats which would convince me to go with a proprietary system? What if I don't like those tires? Yes, other manufacturers ARE licensed to make PAX tires. But, since the ONLY market for these tires are the Ody Touring models and RR Phantoms, why should Goodyear/Bridgestone/Pirelli/etc. go to the expense of turning over production to very small run of tires which they then have to pay a liscensing fee to Michelin for every tire sold? If I were Goodyear et al, wouldn't it be in my best interests to see Michelin fail with their new tire rather than contribute to their success by making tires for them?
I'm not surprised in the slightest that you spent 5 hours responding to questions at a car show without a single inquiry about the PAX tires. For 99% of the public, what type of tire a car is equipped with doesn't even register on their radar. As long as it's round and black, they're happy.
I just don't like it when someone tries to instill fear in people by repeating the same opinion over and over again like it's some kind of crusade.
What is a minus for some is a big plus to others.
That is the only point I'm trying to make. Only time will determine whether these are embraced by the masses.
The reason for so few LX's is not because of dealer orders, but more accurately because that is how Honda is allocating and building them. And based on sales, dealer inventory, and capacity, those allocations can and will be adjusted. EX's are the most popular and are "designed" to be the most popular by feature content and pricing (at least that is what the marketing team tries for).
On PAX. So what if no one asked. That goes both ways. To assume no one asked because it is a non-issue might be a bad one. On top of that, since no one asked, perhaps they see little value in PAX and are focusing on the features that are important to them.
For the record, I have an 05 Touring RES/NAV. The PAX tires will probably be a problem at some point, but I purchased inspite of that. The reason I think PAX will be an issue - consumer demand. Honda only forecasts Touring models at 15% of the 160,000 Odysseys produced annually. That is 24,000 vehicles per year if no other car manufacture adds PAX as standard equipement. Add on to that a 3-4 year tire life on average (15k miles per year), and the consumer demand picture starts looking a whole lot worse.
With those demand numbers (and the fact that tires are convered under warranty anyways), which one of those other tire manufactures are going to run and start producing PAX replacement tires? Fact is, there will not be any.
The big question Honda should have answered (and has no control over) - What competitors are going to embrace PAX and add them to their vehicles as standard equipement? Toyota? Ford? GM? Chysler? Nissan? My guess - none, as each has gone with the other run-flat solution somewhere in their brand families.
And if it comes to that Honda, you will be hearing from me and I am sure other PAX owners about our displeasure come replacement tire time given your semi misleading, pro-PAX press releases.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I have NEVER taken a "pro-PAX" position here. I see the pros and cons of them. I suspect Honda is thinking the usage of these will increase with time. I really don't know.
And, sorry, you are incorrect as to why such few LX's are produced and sold. Dealers tend to order what sells and turns over quickly. Most buyers (like yourself)seem to want the upgraded models.
And, of course I am going to sound biased. I do, however try to express my opinion based on my hands on experiences. I'm not here to drum up business.
I guess I just expected some PAX questions and I didn't get any.
And MAN, did they ever do their best to tear up the Odyssey on display! You wouldn't believe how destructive some people and their kids can be!
DaimlerChrysler has had separately controlled temperature on almost every minivan model for 6 years are more. Honda has had the "Magic Seat" for 6 years now. Competition is great. The 2005 Odyssey puts the Odyssey once more at the top of the best minivan list.
our only other combo choice might have been slate green/olive, but when we saw it it blared out light grey/silver, the dealer even joked that you'd have to stare at it an hour to see any green
Yesterday I spent an hour doing a phone survey about the design of the Odyssey. It seemed to be a great opportunity to provide feedback to Honda about which features I thought were most important, what features were missing or should be standard, how important different attributes were to my decision to buy, etc. I was even asked how much extra I would pay for a hybrid version of the Odyssey.
I included suggestions mentioned on this forum, such as a telescoping steering wheel, adjustable pedals on the EX, memory seats that work with the mirrors, etc. Has anyone else done this survey or know how much impact it has with Honda?
• 120-watt AM/FM/XM®-ready/6-disc in-dash CD changer audio system with 6 speakers
• Roof rails
• Body-Colored Heated power mirrors
• Body-Colored Rear Roofline Spoiler
• Body-Colored Side Molding
• Auto-off headlights
• HomeLink® remote system
• Conversation mirror with sunglasses holder
• Steering wheel-mounted controls
• Ambient console lighting
• Driver's seat with 8-way power adjustment
• Driver's seat with manual lumbar support
• Stowable 2nd-row PlusOne Seat™
• Seat Back Pockets (Driver's side and 2nd-row)
• Integrated sunshades (2nd-row)
• In-floor storage with Lazy Susan
• Security system
• Cargo net
• Exterior temperature indicator
It's up to each potential buyer to determine whether the value of the additional equipment is worth the $3000 to them. For my wife and I, we felt that between just the power doors, CD changer, PlusOne Seat™, and exterior styling(alloy wheels, roof rails, body-colored mirrors, spoiler, and molding), it was worth the additional 12% price tag. Things like the separate temp controls, heated mirrors, HomeLink®, power seat, sunshades, and security system made it an even greater value for us. That’s why we went from initially looking at the LX to actually buying an EX.
I have an 05 EX-L with Nav and DVD. The NAV screen automatically displays the backup camera view when you put the Ody in reverse. You don't need to do anything else to make this happen.
There is no beeping noise with the backup camera. You need the park distance sensors (option on the EX-L) for that and I did not get them. I find that neither the backup camera nor the sensors are a good enough substitute for looking back and using proper judgment. The backup camera is helpful to alert you to kids or cars in the back, but doesn't give you good enough perspective to do finer adjustments in a difficult parking situation. This is just my opinion -- I just can't back up the Ody looking at just the camera in front, it just seems too risky that way.
I think this proves that Honda is seriously considering a Hybrid Odyssey...
I think the Navigator looks very nice, especially on the interior. I also think the ride is very smooth and quiet. Given the fact that I've seen advertisements for $12K off MSRP at the end of the year also makes it very attractive.
However, the reliability history of FORD vehicles is poor compared to Honda and the great features of the Ody compared to the Navigator are hard to pass up.
I agree with you 100% on going for the Ody Touring w/NAV! I would do the same. I would get Black Nighthawk Pearl with Black Leather Interior.
Black, Silver, and Chrome would destroy the soccer-mom/dad image!
The Ody unfortunately still looks very much like a minivan, and not as cool looking as the Navigator or BMW X5, but the all positives like awesome NAV, RES, and PAX make up for the few negatives of the Ody.
Consider cars like Rolls Royce and BMW760 have run-flat or PAX systems, isn't great to know that we can have the same system even though we're not millionaires?
If you read back through these forums you will see what I'm talking about. Same applies to the used ones we get. People walk right past the LX's. They want the EX with leather etc.
The same thing applies to Siennas.
I would chose the EX over LX so I could get separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger, 8 way power driver's seat with manual adjusted lumbar support and the cast wheels. I would prefer to not have the power sliding doors and save the extra $800 to $1,000 for them.
The Ody EX with cloth interior gives a buyer the MOST TOTAL VALUE.
How likely is it that anyone get in an accident that will impact the the bottom side of the van where the lazy susan sits, as opposed to a front, rear, side, offset or rollover situation? You might as well say that a direct hit on the gas tank compromises safety, but then how likely is that to happen?
If Toyota can't cite any evidence, then I'd say it's pure nonsense.
We also wished we didn't have to "pay for" some features we didn't necessarily care about but ours were more the less significant features rather than the sliding doors. In any case, when thinking that we intend to have this vehicle for the next 10 years/100,000+ miles, it didn't seem like that much more to spend.
Glad you appreciated my comments.
Thanks for giving me a chuckle this morning as I head off to work!
Now, that's funny!
And isellhondas, please let us know when someone buys that LX sitting on your lot. And tell us when you get an EX in, how long it takes to sell it. And an EX-L. An EX-L RES, and so on. It'd be interesting to know how long specific trim lines sit on dealer's lots.
Steve, Host
jchan, why would any of that information be important to you? Most of our Odysseys are pre-sold before they land here. The least popular ones are the LX's followed by the EX cloths.
But, it's unpredictable. As an example, I had not sold a DX Accord for at least five years. Last summer I sold two in a two week period.
Go figure?